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#1
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aos membership redux
"tenman" wrote in message
... Pat Brennan wrote: I like the divorce analogy. It has been both sad and funny watching the judges trying to recruit (bring back into the fold) commercial growers. Carlos is as good a person as you will find anywhere and the AOS has been lucky to have him, but it has not been change, just more of the same. Over the last year or so the 'NO AOS Judging' signs have started appearing on the east coast I posed a question last year that I received scant answer to, and perhaps now is a good time to revisit it. While I am personally 'divorced' from the AOS, as president of my local AOS-affiliated society I try to focus on what's best for the society and not let my own personal feelings influence society policy. So I'm looking for empirical information about the issue. Are local orchid societies able to have shows as successful (as many vendors, as much attendance and the same bottom line financially without AOS involvement? I have considered the options for my own local society. I know the majority of our members are newer growers and not only don't belong to or owe any loyalty to the AOS, they are only dimly aware of what it is and would feel no loss at all if we were to drop AOS involvement. In hard times, when AOS membership, judges' luncheons and gift coupons, donations to judging centers, Orchids, AQ, etc, add a substantial figure to the society's limited budget, it is fair game to wonder if it's all necessary or beneficial. I just wonder if one can get as many vendors and as many other society exhibits as currently with the AOS-judged show. Anybody know? Let me take a stab at answering your queestion, Tennis. Our local Society is, and has been for quite some time, AOS affiliated. Let me state right up front that there has been *zero* talk of changing that status. I doubt that anyone has seriously considered it. So my reply is based on my own observations over the past several years. Some background first. Our membership (about 150 now) is very diverse. We have experts, newbies and everything in between. On the Treasure Coast, ours is the only show at which the other societies are invited to install 100 sf floor displays. Everyone else asks for table displays of one size or another. In 2009 our vendor list will be around 20 strong. Not absolutely certain of the number yet; I am not in charge of that. Let's talk about participation first. Some of our seasoned growers very much value AOS recognition. They would not be as inclined to schlep specimen plants for ribbon judging done by society members. Since theirs are generally the finest plants, that would likely leave a hole. The other societies would be less likely to go through the routine of assembling those big floor displays if they (and the plants) were not AOS judged. Personally, neither would I. A few years ago, one of the area societies, out of necessity, put on a show that was not AOS judged. They had members *judge* the displays and plants. There was an awful lot of bellyaching, though it didn't come from our people. Having the AOS stamp on things generally eliminates the muttering. For the newbies, having a plant chosen by the AOS judges to receive a ribbon (and they never expect it) is often the stimulus they need to become more active. It's a validation of sorts. So, how does all that apply to your questions? Pretty simple. One of the big draws for us is those floor displays. They are the first thing people see when they walk in the door. Customers linger at them, often before even hitting the vendor booths. So, if we eliminate the impetus for participants to bring in their special plants and put up those big displays, we disappoint a lot of our attendees. We also take away the impetus for newbies to bring in their stuff. So, you have less plants over all. And this is not to mention the education members get by clerking for the judges. I've seen people go from "I don't know enough" to "I'm learning a lot!" in the blink of an eye. Bottom line is, I don't think our show would be as vibrant or well attended if it were not AOS judged. As far as the vendors are concerned, what they care about is attendance. Few of them care so much for awards at this point. Less attendance, less sales, fewer vendors in the future, and it becomes a circular firing squad. Perhaps this is unique to my area, but that is our experience. Diana |
#2
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aos membership redux
In article , "Diana Kulaga" wrote:
"tenman" wrote in message ... Pat Brennan wrote: I like the divorce analogy. It has been both sad and funny watching the judges trying to recruit (bring back into the fold) commercial growers. Carlos is as good a person as you will find anywhere and the AOS has been lucky to have him, but it has not been change, just more of the same. Over the last year or so the 'NO AOS Judging' signs have started appearing on the east coast I posed a question last year that I received scant answer to, and perhaps now is a good time to revisit it. While I am personally 'divorced' from the AOS, as president of my local AOS-affiliated society I try to focus on what's best for the society and not let my own personal feelings influence society policy. So I'm looking for empirical information about the issue. Are local orchid societies able to have shows as successful (as many vendors, as much attendance and the same bottom line financially without AOS involvement? I have considered the options for my own local society. I know the majority of our members are newer growers and not only don't belong to or owe any loyalty to the AOS, they are only dimly aware of what it is and would feel no loss at all if we were to drop AOS involvement. In hard times, when AOS membership, judges' luncheons and gift coupons, donations to judging centers, Orchids, AQ, etc, add a substantial figure to the society's limited budget, it is fair game to wonder if it's all necessary or beneficial. I just wonder if one can get as many vendors and as many other society exhibits as currently with the AOS-judged show. Anybody know? Let me take a stab at answering your queestion, Tennis. Our local Society is, and has been for quite some time, AOS affiliated. Let me state right up front that there has been *zero* talk of changing that status. I doubt that anyone has seriously considered it. So my reply is based on my own observations over the past several years. Some background first. Our membership (about 150 now) is very diverse. We have experts, newbies and everything in between. On the Treasure Coast, ours is the only show at which the other societies are invited to install 100 sf floor displays. Everyone else asks for table displays of one size or another. In 2009 our vendor list will be around 20 strong. Not absolutely certain of the number yet; I am not in charge of that. Let's talk about participation first. Some of our seasoned growers very much value AOS recognition. They would not be as inclined to schlep specimen plants for ribbon judging done by society members. Since theirs are generally the finest plants, that would likely leave a hole. The other societies would be less likely to go through the routine of assembling those big floor displays if they (and the plants) were not AOS judged. Personally, neither would I. A few years ago, one of the area societies, out of necessity, put on a show that was not AOS judged. They had members *judge* the displays and plants. There was an awful lot of bellyaching, though it didn't come from our people. Having the AOS stamp on things generally eliminates the muttering. For the newbies, having a plant chosen by the AOS judges to receive a ribbon (and they never expect it) is often the stimulus they need to become more active. It's a validation of sorts. So, how does all that apply to your questions? Pretty simple. One of the big draws for us is those floor displays. They are the first thing people see when they walk in the door. Customers linger at them, often before even hitting the vendor booths. So, if we eliminate the impetus for participants to bring in their special plants and put up those big displays, we disappoint a lot of our attendees. We also take away the impetus for newbies to bring in their stuff. So, you have less plants over all. And this is not to mention the education members get by clerking for the judges. I've seen people go from "I don't know enough" to "I'm learning a lot!" in the blink of an eye. Bottom line is, I don't think our show would be as vibrant or well attended if it were not AOS judged. As far as the vendors are concerned, what they care about is attendance. Few of them care so much for awards at this point. Less attendance, less sales, fewer vendors in the future, and it becomes a circular firing squad. Perhaps this is unique to my area, but that is our experience. Diana As for me, I have renewed my membership once again (after more than 25 years). Yet I do flinch at the membership fee now, $60. On the matter of shows that are AOS judged, I find that they are valuable in that you see what 'quality' looks like when you see a plant with a ribbon or even a certificate, e.g., 'Best . . . . . . in Show' , let alone an AOS award. I have attended a couple of 'not AOS judged shows' this year. My own reaction was a bit of a let down. There were lots of people, vendors, etc, but maybe it was my imagination that I didn't see any spectacular plants and/or displays. Don't get me wrong, they were very nice. But, what do I know......? Just my opinion. Chris in Central Florida (delete the word not from address to respond directly) |
#3
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aos membership redux
If we are talking ribbonned shows, I agree with Diana. I would even say
that you would be insane to attempt a ribbonned show without the support of AOS judges. There is just too much learned knowledge about judging shows, too many tried rules and schedules, and just too much raw man and woman power that comes with the AOS judges. Tennis, if you do not understand what I am trying to say, I highly recommend that you hang out at a couple of shows from the time registration opens until the start of the preview party. It will blow your mind; the work, the lost nights sleep, and the skill, experience, and the dedication of the various people making it happen. I think you would have more fun repeatedly hitting your thumb with a hammer than producing a ribbonned show with out the support of AOS judging. There is nothing that says you show has to be ribbonned, but it would not be what most of us think of as an orchid show. That is not a bad thing. Orchids shows are having a hard time right now and maybe a society thinking outside of the box could come up with a very successful format. Pat |
#4
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aos membership redux
"Pat Brennan" wrote in message g.com... . . . Tennis, if you do not understand what I am trying to say, I highly recommend that you hang out at a couple of shows from the time registration opens until the start of the preview party. Tenman, sorry about that. |
#5
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aos membership redux
Pat Brennan wrote:
If we are talking ribbonned shows, I agree with Diana. I would even say that you would be insane to attempt a ribbonned show without the support of AOS judges. There is just too much learned knowledge about judging shows, too many tried rules and schedules, and just too much raw man and woman power that comes with the AOS judges. Tennis, if you do not understand what I am trying to say, I highly recommend that you hang out at a couple of shows from the time registration opens until the start of the preview party. It will blow your mind; the work, the lost nights sleep, and the skill, experience, and the dedication of the various people making it happen. I think you would have more fun repeatedly hitting your thumb with a hammer than producing a ribbonned show with out the support of AOS judging. There is nothing that says you show has to be ribbonned, but it would not be what most of us think of as an orchid show. That is not a bad thing. Orchids shows are having a hard time right now and maybe a society thinking outside of the box could come up with a very successful format. Pat Although I appreciate the input, my focus here is in trying to find out from people who have actual experience with such shows and whether they have been successful, rather than evaluating the possibility in a theoretical fashion. Of course, such a show would include ribbon judging, easily accomplished by experienced orchidists as it is currently done at our second show of the year, a smaller show than our annual AOS-judged affair. I have been involved sufficiently with shows to be familiar with the mechanics involved in the entire judging process, and, more importantly, the expense. Our current set-up is a full-scale show in the spring and a smaller-scale show in the fall which we have been ramping up in preparation to making it a second full-scale AOS-judged show. Our chief problem has been in getting willing volunteers to set-up, clerk, and man the various operations involved. No-one seems to be willing to do anything anymore, and we have scaled back our plans for the second full show and decided for now to keep it as a smaller-scale non-AOS judged show. It has brought the entire concept of AOS membership (as a society) and AOS judging into question. As times are hard and belts (includingthose of organizations such as ours) tighten, all expenses are subjuect to new scrutiny. 'Contributions' to judging centers, Orchids, AQ - and the required laptop, expenses associated with judging (photography, judges' luncheons, judges' coupons, etc, add up to a sizeable portion of the organizational budget. Revenue sources are becoiming less reliable and budgets must be evaluated with an eye at ensuring solvency. |
#6
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aos membership redux
On Dec 15, 12:15*pm, tenman wrote:
'Contributions' to judging centers, Orchids, AQ - and the required laptop, expenses associated with judging (photography, judges' luncheons, judges' coupons, etc, add up to a sizeable portion of the organizational budget. Revenue sources are becoiming less reliable and budgets must be evaluated with an eye at ensuring solvency. roughly how much does all that end up adding up to? --j_a |
#7
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aos membership redux
Janet,
I can't answer for Tennis, but I can tell you what our costs are, roughly. Once a year, we volunteer to pay for a lunch for the judges at their WPB center. Not all societies do it. We choose to. The cost is never more than $100, and generally less. We don't even need to go down and deliver the food. As for the show, we do need to have a photographer in case of awards. I think he got around $45/awarded plant last year. We also ask him to judge our photo entries (we have a category for orchid photography). I don't recall how much our hospitality budget was for the show last year, but it was money well spent and IMO not a lot. We offer fruit & cheese, along with soft drinks, on set up day. The other societies (not to mention our own members) and the vendors need a break in the middle of the day. We would do this whether the show was AOS sanctioned or not. Coffee, donuts, bagels, fruit and whatever are available throughout the show, in the break room. After the judges lunch, we provide the vendors with lunch on that one day. This isn't fancy stuff, just sandwiches and side salads. We are still getting AQ, but it is becoming less necessary with the advent of OrchidWiz. As most now know, OW is not expensive to maintain. Anyhow, that too is a minor expense in the grand scheme of things. There is the cost of trophies, but we always have enough sponsors to cover that. Many of our members sponsor trophies, and most of the vendors do as well. Those sponsorships also pay for the AOS show trophy. If we were doing a "society judged" show, we'd still have to pay for ribbons and rosettes. And none of the above addresses the impartiality of the judges. I doubt that the same could be said of lay people from the society. Bottom line for me: the minor costs associated with having the AOS imprint on the show are well worth it. And, it's good to remember that the judges are UNPAID (sorry for shouting) volunteers who have spent years of apprenticeship, again, unpaid. The least we can do is buy 'em lunch a couple of times a year. I know times are tough for lots of folks, and that spills over to some societies. Fortunately, we have a steady influx of new members, and that keeps us fresh and on our toes. It also means that many of the people who volunteered for various jobs over the years can take a well deserved break. Just my 2 cents, again. Well, make that a nickel. Diana wrote in message ... On Dec 15, 12:15 pm, tenman wrote: 'Contributions' to judging centers, Orchids, AQ - and the required laptop, expenses associated with judging (photography, judges' luncheons, judges' coupons, etc, add up to a sizeable portion of the organizational budget. Revenue sources are becoiming less reliable and budgets must be evaluated with an eye at ensuring solvency. roughly how much does all that end up adding up to? --j_a |
#8
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aos membership redux
i was all for taking our speakers out to dinner, or out for lunch
beforehand (our meetings are at three pm) but i don't know if anyone did that.... --j_a |
#9
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aos membership redux
Our meetings are at 1:00. We don't generally take the speakers out, but we
do have a break with refreshments, and that gives us a chance to chat. Diana wrote in message ... i was all for taking our speakers out to dinner, or out for lunch beforehand (our meetings are at three pm) but i don't know if anyone did that.... --j_a |
#10
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aos membership redux
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#11
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aos membership redux
As an occasional speaker, I can tell you that it is a fairly common gesture.
-- Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com Plants, Supplies. Books, Artwork, and lots of Free Info! wrote in message ... i was all for taking our speakers out to dinner, or out for lunch beforehand (our meetings are at three pm) but i don't know if anyone did that.... --j_a |
#12
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aos membership redux
Hi Tenman,
I do between 35 and 40 events a year and have been doing shows for almost 20 years now. I do both judged and token ribbon/unjudged shows, of those judged some are judged by AOS judges and some are not. My comments were not as theoretically based as you might think. In addition, I have more of a dog in this fight than you might realize. In the last 18 months I have lost my two biggest shows; one to financial problems and the other as best as I can figure because no society member came forward and made the show happen. As a vendor I do not really care about the format, my measure of success is what's in the pouch at the end of the show. But what plants I do bring for show is greatly influenced by the format. As you said, times are hard and belts tighten. I just sent a table fee check for an up coming show. To help recover from last years losses, this show has increased table fees, increased show admission and added an additional vendor. I trust that with the hits the vendors are taking some of the perks have been removed from the judging budget. I expect I will see a vendor revolt if not. I do a small gated show. A few years back the society decided that to continue attracting good vendors they had to drop their commission from 20% to 15%. (As a gated show they knew everyone's take.) As you might guess all budgets got slashed, they even collect unneeded ribbons at the end of the show for next year use. Judges perks at this show are coffee and donuts in the morning and cold cuts and a can of Coke at lunch. Everyone tries to bring really nice plants and getting the judges to come has never been a problem. Most judges truly enjoy judging plants and it is a fun show. I could go on and on but why. Try the format and see if you guys can make it work. If it has too many problems, meet with the local judging center to see if there is not some sort of middle ground. Maybe you could do AOS plant judging at some point during the show with just a small judging team. Good luck with it and put your best people on advertising Pat |
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