Dwarf Rhapis palms (Rhapis excelsa) and a few other palms can be used in
bonsai.
Sort of. They can be kept small by root pruning, but not everyone would
consider them true bonsai. Dwarf bamboos are also grown, shall I say, with
bonsai, rather than as bonsai.


Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that they know so much
that ain't so."
Josh Billings (Henry Wheeler Shaw), 1818-1885

Dwarf Rhapis palms are naturally dwarf so they do not need a lot of
root pruning to stay bonsai size. A lot of dwarf conifers are used in
bonsai. I guess some bonsai purists might consider that "cheating"
too. I read an article in Smithsonian magazine a few years ago about
people who would collect severely stunted trees from the wild and use
those in bonsai. That might be considered cheating as well.

It is a matter of opinion whether dwarf palms are true bonsai,
pseudobonsai or "offbeat bonsai." The author of the following web
article felt that purists in palm societies and bonsai societies did
not fully appreciate bonsai palms either:
http://www.pacsoa.org.au/palms/Artic...nsaiPalms.html

There is not complete agreement on the definition of a tree. Many
people do consider a large banana plant to be a tree, including the
USDA Forest Service: http://hort.ifas.ufl.edu/trees/MUSSPPA.pdf

Webster's dictionary says a tree can be defined as "a shrub or herb of
arborescent form, a banana tree." The state tree of South Carolina
is the palmetto (Sabal palmetto), which is a monocot.

Tree definitions may contain one or more of the following
requirements:
1. Minimum height, such as taller than 15 or 20 feet.
2. A single trunk, but that requirement breaks down with multi-trunk
trees such as white birch.
3. Distinct crown.
4. Woody trunk.

Banana can fit all but the last. Trunks of palm trees, cycad trees and
tree ferns could also be challenged on requirement 4 as could extinct
species, such as tree lycopods (Lepidodendron spp.). Tall bamboos are
often referred to as trees also.


David R. Hershey




(Iris Cohen) wrote in message ...
Dwarf Rhapis palms (Rhapis excelsa) and a few other palms can be used in
bonsai.

Sort of. They can be kept small by root pruning, but not everyone would
consider them true bonsai. Dwarf bamboos are also grown, shall I say, with
bonsai, rather than as bonsai.


Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40

On 08 Feb 2003 03:38:25 GMT, (Iris Cohen) wrote:

A lot of dwarf conifers are used in bonsai. I guess some bonsai purists
might consider that "cheating" too.

Not lately. It is a common practice, even in Japan.

I read an article in Smithsonian magazine a few years ago about people who
would collect severely stunted trees from the wild and use those in bonsai.
That might be considered cheating as well.

Not at all. That is the way bonsai first started. There are specialists who do
nothing but collect prize trees, establish them in pots, & sell them at high
prices. The ambition of every salivating bonsai artist is to have at least one
collected tree, preferably one he's collected himself.

snippage

Ha, this reminds me of my sixth grade math teacher Mr Suzuki, back in
the late 60s he expressed his worry about his father climbing the
cliffs by the Horseshoe Bay Ferry in BC Canada. His dad was an avid
Bonsai fanatic (according to my teacher). The story and the image
stuck in my mind always, along with an appreciation for the art.

If dwarf conifers are accepted as bonsai, then why not dwarf palms or
bamboos? In my opinion using a dwarf plant minimizes the
accomplishment of dwarfing or miniaturizing a plant which is at the
heart of the art and science of bonsai.

I agree that people often transplant stunted plants from nature to
make a bonsai. That doesn't make it desirable. In my opinion, it is a
type of cheating to merely take stunted plants from nature for use as
bonsai. It's sort of like faux topiary, with English ivy or other vine
grown on wire frames, which does not require the skill or patience of
real topiary. It's also undesirable because more wild specimens are
lost.

Are there clear historical records that say ancient bonsai growers
preferred to gather stunted plants from the wild? Or was that a short
cut method?

A lot of botanists work for the government. Even if that makes them
"bureaucrats", it doesn't mean they stop being botanists. Webster's
Dictionary usually reflects common use of words and they say banana
can be defined as a tree.

If you allow that a "palm has a somewhat woody trunk" then you could
extend that to bananas or bamboo as well. It depends how you define
wood. Plant anatomist Katherine Esau defined wood as

"Usually secondary xylem of gymnosperms and dicotyledons, but also
applied to any other xylem."

Monocots such as banana trees and bamboo also have xylem. Most
monocots do not have the secondary growth that produces wood in
gymnosperms and dicots. Palms develop the full width of their trunk
during primary growth. Some monocot stems get wider as they get taller
because the lower portions cannot expand with secondary growth. Screw
pine (Pandanus spp.) develops prop roots to support such top-heavy
stems.

Bamboo stems are often called woody so that makes tall bamboos fit the
definition of a tree:
http://www.botany.hawaii.edu/faculty/carr/po.htm

David R. Hershey





(Iris Cohen) wrote in message ...
A lot of dwarf conifers are used in bonsai. I guess some bonsai purists
might consider that "cheating" too.

Not lately. It is a common practice, even in Japan.

I read an article in Smithsonian magazine a few years ago about people who
would collect severely stunted trees from the wild and use those in bonsai.
That might be considered cheating as well.

Not at all. That is the way bonsai first started. There are specialists who do
nothing but collect prize trees, establish them in pots, & sell them at high
prices. The ambition of every salivating bonsai artist is to have at least one
collected tree, preferably one he's collected himself.

Many people do consider a large banana plant to be a tree, including the
USDA Forest Service:

Are they botanists or government bureaucrats?

The state tree of South Carolina is the palmetto (Sabal palmetto), which is
a monocot.

Palms have a somewhat woody trunk, although the various conducting cells are
arranged differently.

Tall bamboos are often referred to as trees also.

By whom?

Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that they know so much
that ain't so."
Josh Billings (Henry Wheeler Shaw), 1818-1885

David Hershey schreef
It depends how you define wood. Plant anatomist Katherine Esau defined wood
as

"Usually secondary xylem of gymnosperms and dicotyledons, but also
applied to any other xylem."

Monocots such as banana trees and bamboo also have xylem.
David R. Hershey

+ + +
This needs to be qualified by where xylem is found in monocots
PvR.