Tree definitions vary widely with minimum heights, often at maturity,
of 10, 12, 13, 15 or 20 feet or no specific minimum, just "tall." Some
limit trees to seed plants but seedless plants such as tree ferns,
giant horsetails and tree lycopods are usually considered trees. Most
definitions require that the stem be woody, which would probably
exclude banana, but at least one requires that a tree simply be tall.
Some definitions do not even require that a tree's main stem be
self-supporting so woody vines might qualify as trees by some of these
definitions.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...&q=define:tree
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=tree

The term tree can be applied to many bonsai but the definition of
bonsai itself includes a modification of plant size. The definition of
bonsai usually mentions a plant or tree that has been intentionally
miniaturized or dwarfed. The term miniaturized or dwarfed overrides
any height minimum in the definition of tree, as does "dwarf tree."
People may prefer to refer to a young specimen of a tree species as a
tree seedling, sapling or young tree to indicate that it had not yet
met the minimum height for a tree. In some areas, there are pygmy
forests where soils or environmental conditions limit mature tree
height to well below 10 feet. They are still trees but might better be
described as pygmy trees or dwarfed trees.

When used in tree rose, tree geranium, tree lantana, tree coleus, etc.
the meaning of tree is that the plant has a tree shape with a single
main stem and crown of foliage but does not necessarily meet the 10
foot-plus minimum height. Tree roses, tree geraniums, etc. are also
called standards. Woody vines, such as Wisteria spp. and Campsis
radicans, can be trained to have a single, self-supporting stem so
they look like trees but usually don't meet the 10 foot or more
minimum either.

So-called clump birch are sometimes the result of planting three
saplings in the same hole so they may represent multiple trees rather
than multiple trunks.

Welwitschia is often referred to as a tree or dwarf tree, which seems
reasonable.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&i...a+tree&spell=1



(Iris Cohen) wrote in message ...
most definitions of trees include some means of
distinguishing them from shrubs, generally height.

The one I am familiar with is that a shrub is a woody plant which is usually
under ten feet tall & has multiple stems. A tree is usually over ten feet tall
& usually has a single stem.
What about dwarf trees which are way under ten feet tall & might have multiple
trunks, like a dwarf birch? I would assume if the standard plant is a tree, the
dwarf form is also called a tree. Tsuga canadensis 'Minuta' is still a tree,
albeit 3" tall.

Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming
train."
Robert Lowell (1917-1977)

In some areas, there are pygmy forests where soils or environmental
conditions limit mature tree height to well below 10 feet. They are still trees
but might better be described as pygmy trees or dwarfed trees.

There are areas in the rainforests like that. They are called elfin forest. In
the dry areas of California, it is called chaparral. In the countries around
the Mediterranean, it is called maqui.
Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming
train."
Robert Lowell (1917-1977)

In article , (Iris Cohen) wrote:
In some areas, there are pygmy forests where soils or environmental
conditions limit mature tree height to well below 10 feet. They are still trees
but might better be described as pygmy trees or dwarfed trees.

There are areas in the rainforests like that. They are called elfin forest. In
the dry areas of California, it is called chaparral. In the countries around
the Mediterranean, it is called maqui.

There are areas of "heath" vegetation on mountain slopes here in NE Oz
where combinations of poor soil, restricted water, and high wind, have
created dwarf forests of nornal tree species. For example, I recall
an area on an exposed ridge near Lakeland (SW of Cooktown) where
_Eucalyptus_ species were seeding at below knee height.


Cheers, Phred.

--
LID

(Iris Cohen) wrote in message ...
In some areas, there are pygmy forests where soils or environmental
conditions limit mature tree height to well below 10 feet. They are still trees
but might better be described as pygmy trees or dwarfed trees.

There are areas in the rainforests like that. They are called elfin forest. In
the dry areas of California, it is called chaparral. In the countries around
the Mediterranean, it is called maqui.
Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming
train."
Robert Lowell (1917-1977)

Chaparral and maqui are something different from pygmy or elfin
forests or krummholz. (In California, what people think of as
chaparral is formally "coastal sage scrub".) It supports oaks and
other trees of considerable size. But the flora characteristic of
these regions consists mainly of species that do not naturally have
the habit of trees, not of tree species dwarfed by environmental
conditions.

--
Chris Green

Chaparral and maqui are something different from pygmy or elfin forests or
krummholz. (In California, what people think of as chaparral is formally
"coastal sage scrub".) It supports oaks and other trees of considerable size.
But the flora characteristic of these regions consists mainly of species that
do not naturally have the habit of trees, not of tree species dwarfed by
environmental conditions.

Thanks for the clarification. Exactly what is krummholz & where would I find
one?
Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming
train."
Robert Lowell (1917-1977)

David Hershey schreef
Welwitschia is often referred to as a tree or dwarf tree, which seems
reasonable.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&i...a+tree&spell=1

********
A tenuous line of reasoning!
Welwitschia (only) gives 14200 hits
Welwitschia plant gives 4270 hits
Welwitschia tree gives 3110 hits
Welwitschia car gives 2640 hits
"Welwitschia plant" gives 322 hits
"Welwitschia tree" gives 4 hits

Going by number of hits and by this line of reasoning the idea that
Welwitschia is a car is almost as likely as the idea that it is a tree.

You might as well say that as 4/322 = 0.0124 that the idea that Welwitschia
is a tree has a presence well below the 5% border and is statististically
not significant.

Actually the first listed hit for Welwitschia
http://www.namibweb.com/welwitschia.htm
has it pretty much right:
" The plant resembles a woody carrot. "

PvR

That only goes to prove that using hits on the internet as a source for
statistical data is INSANE.

That's almost as bad as asking people on the street advice on quantum
mechanics.


"P van Rijckevorsel" wrote in message
...
David Hershey schreef
Welwitschia is often referred to as a tree or dwarf tree, which seems
reasonable.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&i...a+tree&spell=1

********
A tenuous line of reasoning!
Welwitschia (only) gives 14200 hits
Welwitschia plant gives 4270 hits
Welwitschia tree gives 3110 hits
Welwitschia car gives 2640 hits
"Welwitschia plant" gives 322 hits
"Welwitschia tree" gives 4 hits

Going by number of hits and by this line of reasoning the idea that
Welwitschia is a car is almost as likely as the idea that it is a tree.

You might as well say that as 4/322 = 0.0124 that the idea that
Welwitschia
is a tree has a presence well below the 5% border and is statististically
not significant.

Actually the first listed hit for Welwitschia
http://www.namibweb.com/welwitschia.htm
has it pretty much right:
" The plant resembles a woody carrot. "

PvR

Curious. Just today I asked this question of a snot-nosed, unwashed,
dishevelled, smelly piece of street trash leaning agaist a post, and golly
gosh! I received a lecture on quantum mechanics (including the
Schrodinger's cat example) together with the applications to chemical bonds
and Reimann geometry and the solution thereto! Clearly Cereus Invalidus
Trollus Semper Est sure aint very street smart.

"Cereus-validus" wrote in message
m...
That only goes to prove that using hits on the internet as a source for
statistical data is INSANE.

That's almost as bad as asking people on the street advice on quantum
mechanics.


"P van Rijckevorsel" wrote in message
...
David Hershey schreef
Welwitschia is often referred to as a tree or dwarf tree, which seems
reasonable.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&i...a+tree&spell=1

********
A tenuous line of reasoning!
Welwitschia (only) gives 14200 hits
Welwitschia plant gives 4270 hits
Welwitschia tree gives 3110 hits
Welwitschia car gives 2640 hits
"Welwitschia plant" gives 322 hits
"Welwitschia tree" gives 4 hits

Going by number of hits and by this line of reasoning the idea that
Welwitschia is a car is almost as likely as the idea that it is a tree.

You might as well say that as 4/322 = 0.0124 that the idea that
Welwitschia
is a tree has a presence well below the 5% border and is
statististically
not significant.

Actually the first listed hit for Welwitschia
http://www.namibweb.com/welwitschia.htm
has it pretty much right:
" The plant resembles a woody carrot. "

PvR

The definition of a tree for Peter is something he usually wakes up under
after one of his all night benders!!!

So you say you are still getting acid flashbacks from the 60's? You really
are one hard core dead head!!!

You sure that wasn't actually Fat Freddie's cat you were getting that
lecture on while you were toking on that herbal bong?

(Too bad none of the European curmudgeons won't understand one word of this
posting. They might have been too busy goose-stepping to the oldies at the
time.)


"Peter Jason" wrote in message
...
Curious. Just today I asked this question of a snot-nosed, unwashed,
dishevelled, smelly piece of street trash leaning agaist a post, and golly
gosh! I received a lecture on quantum mechanics (including the
Schrodinger's cat example) together with the applications to chemical
bonds
and Reimann geometry and the solution thereto! Clearly Cereus Invalidus
Trollus Semper Est sure aint very street smart.

"Cereus-validus" wrote in message
m...
That only goes to prove that using hits on the internet as a source for
statistical data is INSANE.

That's almost as bad as asking people on the street advice on quantum
mechanics.


"P van Rijckevorsel" wrote in message
...
David Hershey schreef
Welwitschia is often referred to as a tree or dwarf tree, which
seems
reasonable.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&i...a+tree&spell=1

********
A tenuous line of reasoning!
Welwitschia (only) gives 14200 hits
Welwitschia plant gives 4270 hits
Welwitschia tree gives 3110 hits
Welwitschia car gives 2640 hits
"Welwitschia plant" gives 322 hits
"Welwitschia tree" gives 4 hits

Going by number of hits and by this line of reasoning the idea that
Welwitschia is a car is almost as likely as the idea that it is a
tree.

You might as well say that as 4/322 = 0.0124 that the idea that
Welwitschia
is a tree has a presence well below the 5% border and is
statististically
not significant.

Actually the first listed hit for Welwitschia
http://www.namibweb.com/welwitschia.htm
has it pretty much right:
" The plant resembles a woody carrot. "

PvR

It appears our little Troll-in-training has respect neither for his elders
nor his betters!

This trite little motor-mouth is so busy talking that there is no time for
listening.

Tsk! Tsk!

In his wanton youth the rod was spared, and the child spoiled. O the pity
of it...!!!

A few goods whacks applied with resolve would cure him pronto.

In the meantime I'll cure one of his too-numerous-to-mention neuroses: Vis:

A tree is a plant one can climb.

Now, wasn't that EASY...!!!

Shutup, listen and learn Cereus Serious Trollum Magnus est.



"Cereus-validus" wrote in message
om...
The definition of a tree for Peter is something he usually wakes up under
after one of his all night benders!!!

So you say you are still getting acid flashbacks from the 60's? You really
are one hard core dead head!!!

You sure that wasn't actually Fat Freddie's cat you were getting that
lecture on while you were toking on that herbal bong?

(Too bad none of the European curmudgeons won't understand one word of
this
posting. They might have been too busy goose-stepping to the oldies at the
time.)


"Peter Jason" wrote in message
...
Curious. Just today I asked this question of a snot-nosed, unwashed,
dishevelled, smelly piece of street trash leaning agaist a post, and
golly
gosh! I received a lecture on quantum mechanics (including the
Schrodinger's cat example) together with the applications to chemical
bonds
and Reimann geometry and the solution thereto! Clearly Cereus
Invalidus
Trollus Semper Est sure aint very street smart.

"Cereus-validus" wrote in message
m...
That only goes to prove that using hits on the internet as a source
for
statistical data is INSANE.

That's almost as bad as asking people on the street advice on quantum
mechanics.


"P van Rijckevorsel" wrote in message
...
David Hershey schreef
Welwitschia is often referred to as a tree or dwarf tree, which
seems
reasonable.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&i...a+tree&spell=1

********
A tenuous line of reasoning!
Welwitschia (only) gives 14200 hits
Welwitschia plant gives 4270 hits
Welwitschia tree gives 3110 hits
Welwitschia car gives 2640 hits
"Welwitschia plant" gives 322 hits
"Welwitschia tree" gives 4 hits

Going by number of hits and by this line of reasoning the idea that
Welwitschia is a car is almost as likely as the idea that it is a
tree.

You might as well say that as 4/322 = 0.0124 that the idea that
Welwitschia
is a tree has a presence well below the 5% border and is
statististically
not significant.

Actually the first listed hit for Welwitschia
http://www.namibweb.com/welwitschia.htm
has it pretty much right:
" The plant resembles a woody carrot. "

PvR

" The plant resembles a woody carrot. "

Does not. That's a description of Fouquieria columnaris. The top part of
Welwitschia, which is the part you usually see, looks like what you throw in
the garbage after you made the salad.
Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming
train."
Robert Lowell (1917-1977)

" The plant resembles a woody carrot. "

Iris Cohen schreef
Does not. That's a description of Fouquieria columnaris. The top part of
Welwitschia, which is the part you usually see, looks like what you throw
in the garbage after you made the salad.

********
Ah, you are basing your botanical definitions on what you see and how you
would use it in the kitchen. That explains a lot.
PvR

One can conclude from the remarks from Rinkytink that he has never seen a
Welwitschia nor a carrot.

Also one can conclude that he has no proficiency in the kitchen either. If
it wasn't for fast food and bumming off acquaintances, he probably would
starve to death. With his equal knowledge of wild plants, if he was stranded
in a forest, he would starve.


"P van Rijckevorsel" wrote in message
...
" The plant resembles a woody carrot. "

Iris Cohen schreef
Does not. That's a description of Fouquieria columnaris. The top part of
Welwitschia, which is the part you usually see, looks like what you
throw
in the garbage after you made the salad.

********
Ah, you are basing your botanical definitions on what you see and how you
would use it in the kitchen. That explains a lot.
PvR

One can conclude from that remark from Rinkytink that he has seen neither a
Welwitschia nor a carrot.


"Iris Cohen" wrote in message
...
" The plant resembles a woody carrot. "

Does not. That's a description of Fouquieria columnaris. The top part of
Welwitschia, which is the part you usually see, looks like what you throw
in
the garbage after you made the salad.
Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming
train."
Robert Lowell (1917-1977)