Hi I'm Barbara and I live in Western Oregon. Bin lurking here since the
group opened

We habe 2 ponds with a creek in between. Had them about 16 or more
years. Last year we rebuilt the large upper level pond added a
waterfall to it and a skippy filter. Right now we've redone the creek
and smaller lower pond. For the first time in all these years I've
bought a test kit and everything checks out fine Except the PH which
is at 8. So out of curiousity I checked our Water straight out of the
Faucet and it's a 9 . So how do I deal with that. Any suggestions
anyone?

Barbara

On Jul 29, 11:42 pm, "Barbara OR\(USA\)"
wrote:
Hi I'm Barbara and I live in Western Oregon. Bin lurking here since the
group opened

We habe 2 ponds with a creek in between. Had them about 16 or more
years. Last year we rebuilt the large upper level pond added a
waterfall to it and a skippy filter. Right now we've redone the creek
and smaller lower pond. For the first time in all these years I've
bought a test kit and everything checks out fine Except the PH which
is at 8. So out of curiousity I checked our Water straight out of the
Faucet and it's a 9 . So how do I deal with that. Any suggestions
anyone?

Barbara

PH Down?

"Barbara OR(USA)" wrote in message
news:1Udri.5924$Lu4.4083@trndny03...
Hi I'm Barbara and I live in Western Oregon. Bin lurking here since the
group opened

We habe 2 ponds with a creek in between. Had them about 16 or more years.
Last year we rebuilt the large upper level pond added a waterfall to it
and a skippy filter. Right now we've redone the creek and smaller lower
pond. For the first time in all these years I've bought a test kit and
everything checks out fine Except the PH which is at 8. So out of
curiousity I checked our Water straight out of the Faucet and it's a 9 .
So how do I deal with that. Any suggestions anyone?

Barbara
Don't try to force the pH down. Don't let a little new knowledge cause you
to go chasing your tail. Check the pH early in the morning and late in the
day. If it is flucturating, test for KH. You say that not knowing has
gotten you through 16 years, so it must be good water.

There is another test out there that is more beneficial, called KH hardness.
The KH test measures the bicarbonates in the water. If the bicarbonates
drop low, then the pH becomes unstable and will crash to very low numbers.
The bacteria use bicarbonates in there changing ammonia to nitrite, and
nitrite to nitrate. The bacteria actualy produce acids that must be
neutrallized for their health and the health of the fish. The bicarbonate
ion is easily changed by the acid to CO2 and water. It can also neutralize
the hydroxyl (very alkaline) ion, by being converted to water and carbonate
ion. The carbonate ion will combine with the calcium in the system and make
a relatively insoluble balance limestone like material. The KH needs to
stay above 80, and it doesn't hurt a thing to have it stay above 300. The
balance between bicarbonates and carbonates occurs at a pH of 8.3 to 8.4.
To raise the KH add baking soda.

On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 23:42:38 CST, "Barbara OR\(USA\)"
wrote:

We habe 2 ponds with a creek in between. Had them about 16 or more
years. Last year we rebuilt the large upper level pond added a
waterfall to it and a skippy filter. Right now we've redone the creek
and smaller lower pond. For the first time in all these years I've
bought a test kit and everything checks out fine Except the PH which
is at 8. So out of curiousity I checked our Water straight out of the
Faucet and it's a 9 . So how do I deal with that. Any suggestions
anyone?

Yes! Be Happy! Leave it alone. Fish live in water with pH from a
low of 6 to a high of 9. If it has been working for 16 years it ain't
broke, so don't fix it.

Regards,

Hal

chatnoir wrote:




PH Down?
Thanks chatnoir. Was looking for the most natural way to reduce it
without using any chemicals.

Hal wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 23:42:38 CST, "Barbara OR\(USA\)"
wrote:

We habe 2 ponds with a creek in between. Had them about 16 or more
years. Last year we rebuilt the large upper level pond added a
waterfall to it and a skippy filter. Right now we've redone the
creek and smaller lower pond. For the first time in all these years
I've bought a test kit and everything checks out fine Except the
PH which is at 8. So out of curiousity I checked our Water
straight out of the Faucet and it's a 9 . So how do I deal with
that. Any suggestions anyone?

Yes! Be Happy! Leave it alone. Fish live in water with pH from a
low of 6 to a high of 9. If it has been working for 16 years it ain't
broke, so don't fix it.

Regards,

Hal

LOL you sound like my husband. If it ain't broke........
Thank you. Just doublechecking with all the work we've been doing I
wanted to be sure everything is working as it should.

Barbara

RichToyBox wrote:

Don't try to force the pH down. Don't let a little new knowledge
cause you to go chasing your tail. Check the pH early in the morning
and late in the day. If it is flucturating, test for KH. You say
that not knowing has gotten you through 16 years, so it must be good
water.
There is another test out there that is more beneficial, called KH
hardness. The KH test measures the bicarbonates in the water. If the
bicarbonates drop low, then the pH becomes unstable and will crash to
very low numbers. The bacteria use bicarbonates in there changing
ammonia to nitrite, and nitrite to nitrate. The bacteria actualy
produce acids that must be neutrallized for their health and the
health of the fish. The bicarbonate ion is easily changed by the
acid to CO2 and water. It can also neutralize the hydroxyl (very
alkaline) ion, by being converted to water and carbonate ion. The
carbonate ion will combine with the calcium in the system and make a
relatively insoluble balance limestone like material. The KH needs
to stay above 80, and it doesn't hurt a thing to have it stay above
300. The balance between bicarbonates and carbonates occurs at a pH
of 8.3 to 8.4. To raise the KH add baking soda.

Thanks The early morning (or is 7 am early morning) reads the same
as the 5 PM. So it should be good.

Actually I thought it was going to be more on the acid side because the
soil here is extremely acid and we have large fir trees residing close
enough to our system that they are always "depositing" needles and cones
in the system. That was one of the reasons I wanted to test

But looks like the new filter system is doing it's job, Yippee.

Barbara

Barbara,

Just thought I'd add, that to test tap water, you sometimes need to aerate
it to get a true test. Not straight out of the tap. Nothing wrong with 8.0
if the KH is good. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

RichToyBox wrote, On 30/07/2007 13:52:
There is another test out there that is more beneficial, called KH
hardness.
The KH test measures the bicarbonates in the water. If the bicarbonates
drop low, then the pH becomes unstable and will crash to very low numbers.
The bacteria use bicarbonates in there changing ammonia to nitrite, and
nitrite to nitrate. The bacteria actualy produce acids that must be
neutrallized for their health and the health of the fish. The bicarbonate
ion is easily changed by the acid to CO2 and water. It can also neutralize
the hydroxyl (very alkaline) ion, by being converted to water and carbonate
ion. The carbonate ion will combine with the calcium in the system and make
a relatively insoluble balance limestone like material. The KH needs to
stay above 80, and it doesn't hurt a thing to have it stay above 300. The
balance between bicarbonates and carbonates occurs at a pH of 8.3 to 8.4.
To raise the KH add baking soda.

Would acid in the water act on chalk in the same way? Could a lump of
chalk be used as a slow release aid to buffering?


--
DavidM
www.djmorgan.org.uk

organic dolomitic limestone works great. make shelves out of
limestone works great. it has both calcium and magnesium.
DONT USE PLASTER OF PARIS, oyster shells.
Ingrid

On Wed, 1 Aug 2007 08:17:34 CST, DavidM
wrote:
Would acid in the water act on chalk in the same way? Could a lump of
chalk be used as a slow release aid to buffering?

"DavidM" wrote in message
...
RichToyBox wrote, On 30/07/2007 13:52:
There is another test out there that is more beneficial, called KH
hardness.
The KH test measures the bicarbonates in the water. If the bicarbonates
drop low, then the pH becomes unstable and will crash to very low
numbers. The bacteria use bicarbonates in there changing ammonia to
nitrite, and nitrite to nitrate. The bacteria actualy produce acids that
must be neutrallized for their health and the health of the fish. The
bicarbonate ion is easily changed by the acid to CO2 and water. It can
also neutralize the hydroxyl (very alkaline) ion, by being converted to
water and carbonate ion. The carbonate ion will combine with the calcium
in the system and make a relatively insoluble balance limestone like
material. The KH needs to stay above 80, and it doesn't hurt a thing to
have it stay above 300. The balance between bicarbonates and carbonates
occurs at a pH of 8.3 to 8.4. To raise the KH add baking soda.

Would acid in the water act on chalk in the same way? Could a lump of
chalk be used as a slow release aid to buffering?


--
DavidM
www.djmorgan.org.uk

Yes. The pH would have to be much lower to dissolve the calcium carbonate.
Many wells have water that has been through limestone deposits and when it
comes out of the well, it is at a pH of around 6. After aeration, it will
jump to around 8. What is happening is the CO2 is being outgassed. I am
not sure of the KH out of the well, but the water will generally have a high
GH from all the calcium ions from the dissolution.

The geologists use hydrochloric acid to distinguish between limestone Ca2CO3
and dolomite CaMgCo3. limestone will foam from rapid dissolution, while
dolomite will not. Dolomite is much slower dissolving. There are many
forms of calcium carbonate, which include limestone, dolomitic limestone,
chalk, marble, and oyster shells. Marble has been cooked under high
pressure and because of its density is much less soluble. The finer the
material, the more surface area, so the faster it can react, so pulverized
will work, but it will make a muddy mess when it is added.

On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 07:41:02 CST, "RichToyBox"
wrote:


"DavidM" wrote in message
...
RichToyBox wrote, On 30/07/2007 13:52:
There is another test out there that is more beneficial, called KH
hardness.
The KH test measures the bicarbonates in the water. If the bicarbonates
drop low, then the pH becomes unstable and will crash to very low
numbers. The bacteria use bicarbonates in there changing ammonia to
nitrite, and nitrite to nitrate. The bacteria actualy produce acids that
must be neutrallized for their health and the health of the fish. The
bicarbonate ion is easily changed by the acid to CO2 and water. It can
also neutralize the hydroxyl (very alkaline) ion, by being converted to
water and carbonate ion. The carbonate ion will combine with the calcium
in the system and make a relatively insoluble balance limestone like
material. The KH needs to stay above 80, and it doesn't hurt a thing to
have it stay above 300. The balance between bicarbonates and carbonates
occurs at a pH of 8.3 to 8.4. To raise the KH add baking soda.

Would acid in the water act on chalk in the same way? Could a lump of
chalk be used as a slow release aid to buffering?


--
DavidM
www.djmorgan.org.uk

Yes. The pH would have to be much lower to dissolve the calcium carbonate.
Many wells have water that has been through limestone deposits and when it
comes out of the well, it is at a pH of around 6. After aeration, it will
jump to around 8. What is happening is the CO2 is being outgassed. I am
not sure of the KH out of the well, but the water will generally have a high
GH from all the calcium ions from the dissolution.

The geologists use hydrochloric acid to distinguish between limestone Ca2CO3
and dolomite CaMgCo3. limestone will foam from rapid dissolution, while
dolomite will not. Dolomite is much slower dissolving. There are many
forms of calcium carbonate, which include limestone, dolomitic limestone,
chalk, marble, and oyster shells. Marble has been cooked under high
pressure and because of its density is much less soluble. The finer the
material, the more surface area, so the faster it can react, so pulverized
will work, but it will make a muddy mess when it is added.

Minor quibble: "Chalk" is often gypsum, or calcium sulfate, rather
than calcium carbonate. It is not uncommon, however, to find gypsum
speleothems (cave formations) in calcium carbonate caves. Likewise,
it is not uncommon to find caves developed in gypsum.