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URGENT - Another sick fish
I'm worried about putting denture adhesive on the fish... I'm not sure
if what I got is the right stuff or not and it just seems like a really foreign substance. Given my experience of killing the fish by doing too much, that part makes me nervous. We only have chain pet stores which are poorly stocked for fish first aid, so I ordered some bio bandage and malachite green for at least next time, if not this time. I came very close to catching it yesterday, but my bird netting was a bit too short and the daylight ran out. I got a larger roll of bird netting and I'm sure I'll get it today. Once I catch it, I'll take some better pictures and make some slides prior to dipping. What is DI water? Thanks, Dave |
URGENT - Another sick fish
I got it in. It looks really bad. That eye is glazed over again.
I checked under the microscope for bad things, and didn't see any with slides made from the wound area, as well as normal swipes. I gave it a salt dip but had to pull it out at 4 minutes. It was on its side and shocky with its mouth stuck open. I put it in the aquarium and after maybe 5 or 10 minutes it came around. It's now swimming, but clearly annoyed at being confined. Man, that wound is a bloody-looking mess. http://homepage.mac.com/pondstuff/PhotoAlbum1.html See the 4/22/08 image. I put a large one up there since I finally got a good view of things. The other side of the fish looks good. Dave |
URGENT - Another sick fish
This was an E-mail reply to Dave, but in case other were interested in what
I was suggesting: I got the fish in. I've taken a picture and posted it at the usual place: http://homepage.mac.com/pondstuff/PhotoAlbum1.html See the last picture. Oh yes, that definitely needs to be scrubbed. Your choice if it is salt paste or H2O2. I've always used H2O2 myself. Course don't get it in the gills. at .36%. Is that ok? Yes, that's fine. How do I clean the area with the hydrogen peroxide? Do I want to remove the loose stuff, or just swab the wound gently? Have paper towels and Q-tips on hand. In a circular motion scrub the area, go under and remove any loose scales around the edges. Rinse, dab dry, and put in the Tricide Neo. This is all easier to do if you put the fish to sleep with Finquel, but if you haven't had a class in using it, I'm hesitant to suggest it. But if you want to try, I'll try to talk you thru using it. As far as the Tricide-Neo, put solution in a bag, then fish, and hold bag up so fish is immersed. In reality it isn't as bad as it seems. Or you could scrub, iodine, antibiotic-type ointment and denture adhesive powder (sorry, it wasn't till later I saw that it was the powdered form that is suggested not the other version) and wait 3 days while the fish is fasting so it doesn't mess up the Tricide-Neo, but we could also lose precious time if we wait. If you choose the above, you won't scrub it again prior to the Tricide-Neo dipping. And DI water is just distilled water? Yes. ~ jan ------------ Zone 7a, SE Washington State Ponds: www.jjspond.us |
URGENT - Another sick fish
Thanks for the info. I put in a few pieces of medi-carp when I put the
fish in the tank, and I only see one now, so it looks like the fish is eating again. I'm going to take that as a sign that it's relaxed enough for the next step. I'll do the hydrogen peroxide and Tricide- Neo. I have Finquel here, but I'm concerned that I won't notice if the fish is in distress if I sedate it, so for this dip I'll keep it alert. Given the reaction it had to the salt dip, I think that might be best. I'm a little confused about the last part about fasting. Am I supposed to stop feeding the fish while I'm treating it? Thanks, Dave |
URGENT - Another sick fish
Whew. Ok, I've cleaned and dipped the fish. We both survived, although
I think it was more stressful for me. Photos at the usual place: http://homepage.mac.com/pondstuff/PhotoAlbum1.html I also included a left side shot that shows how much better the fish is on that side. Looking at the post-salt-dip shot and the latest right side shot, it looks like the wound got pretty cleaned up by the hydrogen peroxide. There wasn't a lot of loose matter to remove. I'm noticing more blood in the fins now. I'm not sure if that happened before or during the Tricide-Neo dip. The fish didn't seem to mind the dip at all. The fish is active and PO'd at me. I'm bringing the tank temp up to 78 F. Dave |
URGENT - Another sick fish
Well, morning came and the fish is still alive! It's swimming around
quite actively and looks pretty good. I still see blood in the tail and fins. Most notably in the tail. The water in the tank is a little cloudy this morning. I'm not sure if that's a reaction from raising the temperature or if it's being caused by the food from yesterday, but I'll do a partial water change in a bit. |
URGENT - Another sick fish
red in the fins is both stress and bad water. Use the tub to tub method
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/d...htm#TUB_TO_TUB this will move the fish away from bacteria and wastes in the water. Make sure there is a bit of salt in the water to help heal and help osmotic pressure. Just to be on the safe side, do the peroxide dip to make SURE to get rid of gyros and dacs. http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/d...m#peroxide_dip 10, 10, 10 I REPEAT 10 SECONDS ONLY you CAN use mercurochrome on a swab on the wound. also, make sure the "tub" or whatever is netted on the top so that fish doesnt jump. Ingrid On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 09:58:42 EDT, Pond Addict wrote: Well, morning came and the fish is still alive! It's swimming around quite actively and looks pretty good. I still see blood in the tail and fins. Most notably in the tail. The water in the tank is a little cloudy this morning. I'm not sure if that's a reaction from raising the temperature or if it's being caused by the food from yesterday, but I'll do a partial water change in a bit. |
URGENT - Another sick fish
Are the blood streaks I'm noticing in the fins and tail most likely
caused by septicemia or some other bacterial infection? If so, do I need to do something more than a Tricide-Neo dip for that? My understanding is that T-N doesn't help with systemic bacterial infections. Or, can stress also cause a fish to bleed like that? I'm dipping for the second day in a couple of hours. Today the fish seems less mad at me and quite relaxed. It's active and the wound area looks less raw. It's more "faded" red than "I'm going to bleed all over you" red. I think the eye might be a little better too. There's like a growth, almost like a bump of skin, on the outside of it in the center. Maybe a bacterial infection? The eye seems to be working fine otherwise. Slime coat is good, and has been from the beginning. My biggest concern right now is the blood streaks I'm seeing in the extremities. I'm hoping that the fish isn't failing internally while I'm treating its external issues. Water is at 78 degrees, .34% salt. By the way, I never mentioned how I caught the fish. I used lawn stakes to anchor one end of the bird netting along the shore, then sunk it across the pond with small stones and waited for the fish to cross over so I could scoop it up. I spent maybe 2 hours setting all this up and was patiently waiting and admiring my foolproof trap when the fish got spooked by me and went into the same corner where I originally rescued it. In the end, I caught it with a hand net. Figures. Dave |
URGENT - Another sick fish
On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 18:47:15 EDT, Pond Addict
wrote: Are the blood streaks I'm noticing in the fins and tail most likely caused by septicemia or some other bacterial infection? Imo, it is just stress from the Tricide-Neo. I've seen fish bleed from the gills due to the stress. I wouldn't do anything more than you have since you scraped & scoped the fish and didn't see anything on the slide. The main thing is watch the water quality in the sick tank. What I'm reading so far is it sounds like the fish is responding well to the Tricide Neo. ~ jan ------------ Zone 7a, SE Washington State Ponds: www.jjspond.us |
URGENT - Another sick fish
Yes, I believe it's responding very well. The second Tricide-Neo dip
went as smoothly as the first. Oddly, the tail blood doesn't look as bad after the second dip. Maybe that's my imagination, but that's how it appears right now. Stress as a cause would definitely make sense, so I'll hope for that and keep an eye on it just in case. I'll post some new pictures in the morning. The wound area is doing much better. I did another partial water change tonight because the water was still cloudy (I'm thinking either the food yesterday or blood from the fish), and then I bumped the salt back up to .3%. It's staying clear now. I'm keeping a close eye on the water quality (running tests and such) since the fish is huge for this tank. I've also got lots of air going in and I'm keeping the solids out. Not an optimal sick tank, but the fish has adapted to it and I believe I'm on top of it. I'd switch to the tub to tub method, but I think I'm able to maintain the water quality and the fish seems relaxed where it is. It likes to look around at everything, which it couldn't do in a tub. Plus, it's easier for me to keep an eye on behind glass. Since I'm not running into problems, I think I'll just leave it like it is for now. I'll definitely keep that in mind for the future, though. Thanks. Dave |
URGENT - Another sick fish
blood streaks are most likely stress or water quality.
cloudiness on eye is BAD slime coat. just wait. it will resolve. Ingrid On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 18:47:15 EDT, Pond Addict wrote: Are the blood streaks I'm noticing in the fins and tail most likely caused by septicemia or some other bacterial infection? There's like a growth, almost like a bump of skin, on the outside of it in the center. Slime coat is good, and has been from the beginning. |
URGENT - Another sick fish
I've posted new images taken 12 hours after the second Tricide-Neo
dip: http://homepage.mac.com/pondstuff/PhotoAlbum1.html See the 4/24/08 pictures. The improvement is noticeable. Do I only do one more Tricide-Neo dip? The instructions say I can keep doing it every day or every other day for a week. Thanks, Dave |
URGENT - Another sick fish
On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 14:06:05 EDT, Pond Addict
wrote: I've posted new images taken 12 hours after the second Tricide-Neo dip: http://homepage.mac.com/pondstuff/PhotoAlbum1.html See the 4/24/08 pictures. The improvement is noticeable. Do I only do one more Tricide-Neo dip? The instructions say I can keep doing it every day or every other day for a week. Thanks, Dave Kind of up to you, but I only did it the 3 times. Also depends on how clean the Tricide-Neo stays. About the 3rd time it gets pretty smelly due to all the slime coat sloughing off. ~ jan ------------ Zone 7a, SE Washington State Ponds: www.jjspond.us |
URGENT - Another sick fish
are those missing scales on the "good side"? if the tricide-neo is antibiotic, keep
doing the dips. I would also recommend triple antibiotic CREME from the drug store. rub that on all areas wounds and places without scales. Ingrid On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 14:06:05 EDT, Pond Addict wrote: I've posted new images taken 12 hours after the second Tricide-Neo dip: http://homepage.mac.com/pondstuff/PhotoAlbum1.html See the 4/24/08 pictures. The improvement is noticeable. Do I only do one more Tricide-Neo dip? The instructions say I can keep doing it every day or every other day for a week. Thanks, Dave |
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