Hi All,

I found a fish behind a plant today, and it's one of my largest
Comets. It looks pretty bad.

I've posted images he

http://homepage.mac.com/pondstuff/PhotoAlbum1.html
They're really large images, so they're slow to download, but you can
keep clicking on them to zoom in.

I only have a 10 gallon tank that I can quarantine this fish in. Is
the stress of moving it to that alone going to kill it? I've got it
set up with .02% salt and good water.

What should I try? I'm concerned about a salt dip because it may just
be too much for it. The fish is very lethargic, but it does splash
about and such when I netted it. This was one of my best fish. Any
help is appreciated.

Thanks,

Dave

On Sat, 5 Apr 2008 16:22:29 EDT, Pond Addict wrote:

Hi All,

I found a fish behind a plant today, and it's one of my largest
Comets. It looks pretty bad.

I've posted images he

http://homepage.mac.com/pondstuff/PhotoAlbum1.html
They're really large images, so they're slow to download, but you can
keep clicking on them to zoom in.

I only have a 10 gallon tank that I can quarantine this fish in. Is
the stress of moving it to that alone going to kill it? I've got it
set up with .02% salt and good water.

What should I try? I'm concerned about a salt dip because it may just
be too much for it. The fish is very lethargic, but it does splash
about and such when I netted it. This was one of my best fish. Any
help is appreciated.
Dave

I got a jump on this one, as Dave e-mailed me directly: I replied

If moving it does kill it, it was really weak, nothing would have saved it.
So yes, move it, use pond water and add the salt, a bit at a time.

I can see why you want to save it, gorgeous fish. Any possibility that this
is spawn damage? Have you seen chasing going on in the pond?

Dave responded that it could very well be spawning, there is some foam
around the waterfall, and this fish has been a favorite chasee in the past.
So he's currently going with the aquarium, salt and waiting. Hopefully all
this little gal needs is some rest. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

I discussed this with Jan, and she thinks that it might be due to
spawn damage. This fish is the "female of choice" in the pond it would
seem, and I've seen signs of the fish getting busy lately, so that
could be.

On Jan's advice I'm going to bring the fish into the inside tank
containing just pond water and raise the salt .05% per day until it
reaches to .3%.

Since I first posted, the fish has been swimming around the pond,
which is encouraging. Unfortunately that makes it pretty tough to
catch! I've also noticed it's interested in eating, so maybe it's not
so far gone after all.

Thanks,

Dave

On Sat, 5 Apr 2008 19:14:45 EDT, Pond Addict
wrote:

Since I first posted, the fish has been swimming around the pond,
which is encouraging. Unfortunately that makes it pretty tough to
catch! I've also noticed it's interested in eating, so maybe it's not
so far gone after all.
Dave

How's the fish today? ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

How's the fish today? ~ jan
Unfortunately, it's evasive.

I tried to catch it various times yesterday--even trying to lure it
with food, but it was too clever for me or my net was too slow. I
tried again last night and actually got in the pond with enough
outside light on to see it swimming around and I almost got it once.
That one miss was enough for it to learn to stay in the center of the
pond the rest of the time I was out there. I eventually figured that
since I was going to be out cleaning up the pond today that I'd try to
get it today instead. My fish tend to be leery of things on the shore
but if you get in the water with them, they come right up. Some kind
of misguided feeling of security or overwhelming curiosity I guess.

That fish really swam around quite a bit after I removed it from
behind the plant yesterday. I wonder if it had somehow become stuck
back there and some of its damage had come about as a result of that.

Today, I was out there at noon and not one fish was to be seen. It was
a heavily overcast day, and I think that had a lot to do with it. By
2:00 they started appearing and they were everywhere by 3:00. However,
I didn't see that particular fish. I'd be more concerned about that if
all of the other fish hadn't gotten such a late start on the day. I
have a feeling it was down under the big rock resting, rather than
dead somewhere because it was actually behaving pretty well yesterday
afternoon and last night.

The part of the pond that contains the fish is about 20' x 25' with a
6' drop in the middle, so it's tough to catch them unless they're
really doing badly or they venture into the shallow water (which is
about a 2' edge around it). And for better or worse, they have some
good hiding spots.

Anyway, I'll let you know once I know more, but so far that one's
being evasive. Oh, and from what I saw last night, the fish are
definitely mating.

Dave

Having said that... I just saw it. It's swimming around much more
energetically now. I'm wondering if I should just let it recover out
there and keep an eye on it, not that it's giving me much choice at
the moment.

Pond Addict wrote:

How's the fish today? ~ jan
Unfortunately, it's evasive.

I tried to catch it various times yesterday--even trying to lure it
with food, but it was too clever for me or my net was too slow. I
tried again last night and actually got in the pond with enough
outside light on to see it swimming around and I almost got it once.
That one miss was enough for it to learn to stay in the center of the
pond the rest of the time I was out there. I eventually figured that
since I was going to be out cleaning up the pond today that I'd try to
get it today instead. My fish tend to be leery of things on the shore
but if you get in the water with them, they come right up. Some kind
of misguided feeling of security or overwhelming curiosity I guess.

That fish really swam around quite a bit after I removed it from
behind the plant yesterday. I wonder if it had somehow become stuck
back there and some of its damage had come about as a result of that.

Today, I was out there at noon and not one fish was to be seen. It was
a heavily overcast day, and I think that had a lot to do with it. By
2:00 they started appearing and they were everywhere by 3:00. However,
I didn't see that particular fish. I'd be more concerned about that if
all of the other fish hadn't gotten such a late start on the day. I
have a feeling it was down under the big rock resting, rather than
dead somewhere because it was actually behaving pretty well yesterday
afternoon and last night.

The part of the pond that contains the fish is about 20' x 25' with a
6' drop in the middle, so it's tough to catch them unless they're
really doing badly or they venture into the shallow water (which is
about a 2' edge around it). And for better or worse, they have some
good hiding spots.

Anyway, I'll let you know once I know more, but so far that one's
being evasive. Oh, and from what I saw last night, the fish are
definitely mating.

Dave



A great way to catch fish in this large an area is to use bird netting.
Anchor one side to the side of your pond. Drape the netting across and
weight the middle with small rocks. When you see them over the netting,
raise it as quickly as possible. Helps to have two people.

San Diego Joe
4,000 - 5,000 Gallons.
Koi, Goldfish, and RES named Colombo.

How's the fish today? ~ jan
Unfortunately, it's evasive.
Dave

Almost sounds like leaving it alone will be okay. The aquarium would give
it the rest it needs, but it sounds like it has perked up on its own. I
hope it continues to improve. ~ jan

------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

Another day, another decision. I watched it a bit today and it looks
both better and worse.

For better, the left side of the fish doesn't seem to show trauma any
more. The other side looks worse, but it's almost like how a bruise
looks worse a day or two later before it starts looking better. Not
sure if that's good or bad.

I also noticed that the eye that was a glazed isn't glazed as much
anymore but there's a little bit of blood in the area surrounding the
eye (maybe 1 cm going from 5 o'clock - 6 o'clock). I'm not sure what
that means.

There's also a visible trauma spot on the gill behind the right eye.
If you look at the original right side photo and zoom in, you can see
the start of that. Does that damage look indicative of anything in
particular? There's a small crack in the gill cover, so I'm thinking
(hoping) that maybe it was caused by external force rather than
something beneath the surface.

I've decided to bring the fish inside. I very nearly had it today but
I didn't have the inside tank ready, so I missed the chance. I'll try
once more tonight, but I'm not hopeful. I think I can get it tomorrow
though.

Also, my microscope came, so if I do manage to catch this fish, I'll
take some scrapings from it and see what shows up.

Dave

getting stuck is VERY VERY stressful for a fish. once it is loose tho, they do
recover pretty fast as long as the water is clean. getting their slime coat back on
after it is rubbed off is priority. the longer they were trapped, the longer time
for cooties to get to the skin inside the slime coat and more damage.

it is typical of spawning that fish get trapped by objects in the pond. they also
can end up jumping INTO plants and may not be able to get back out of the pot easily.
Ingrid

On Sun, 6 Apr 2008 18:53:19 EDT, Pond Addict wrote:
That fish really swam around quite a bit after I removed it from
behind the plant yesterday. I wonder if it had somehow become stuck
back there and some of its damage had come about as a result of that.

I have seen the kind of bruising you are talking about on spawning koi. It happens.
LEAVE IT ALONE. as long as you have a bit of salt in the water it will do better
outside than in. If you bring it in you will have to do a clean up as the parasites
will explode in the warmer water of the aquarium and
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/c...m%20the%20pond
frankly, the aquarium is not as clean as the pond water after a couple days. In my
experience the only good hospital tank is a 100 gallon rubbermaid stock tank with a
heavy duty gravity filter and webbing over the top to keep the fish in.

What you might need is an "in the pond" netted area for isolation of spawn damaged
fish to give them a break from being battered. Ingrid

On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 02:06:01 EDT, Pond Addict wrote:
The other side looks worse, but it's almost like how a bruise
looks worse a day or two later before it starts looking better. Not
sure if that's good or bad.

I also noticed that the eye that was a glazed isn't glazed as much
anymore but there's a little bit of blood in the area surrounding the
eye (maybe 1 cm going from 5 o'clock - 6 o'clock). I'm not sure what
that means.

There's also a visible trauma spot on the gill behind the right eye.
If you look at the original right side photo and zoom in, you can see
the start of that. Does that damage look indicative of anything in
particular? There's a small crack in the gill cover, so I'm thinking
(hoping) that maybe it was caused by external force rather than
something beneath the surface.

I've decided to bring the fish inside. I very nearly had it today but
I didn't have the inside tank ready, so I missed the chance. I'll try
once more tonight, but I'm not hopeful. I think I can get it tomorrow
though.

Also, my microscope came, so if I do manage to catch this fish, I'll
take some scrapings from it and see what shows up.

Dave

Ok, I'll leave it out there for now. Although I didn't manage to get
it last night, I did see it being pursued very aggressively. I think
it's continuing to get beaten up every night.

I started the bead filter and UV yesterday. Even though the water
chemistry is good, I'm pretty sure there's "something bad" living in
the water. I'll take some scrapings today to see if I can figure out
what needs to be treated.

If I can't see find anything to treat, I'm thinking of bringing the
salt up to .2% to aid with stress and healing. Good idea? Unnecessary?

Thanks for the input.

Dave

I took scrapings from 3 fish, but didn't see anything that even
closely resembled flukes or any other parasite activity I've read
about. The mucus all looked normal and there wasn't a lot of activity
on the slides.

I did see this thing:
http://homepage.mac.com/pondstuff/PhotoAlbum2.html

I'm not sure what it is. I saw a few of those. Are they just worms?

Also, is there a good source (book or online) for deciphering what I'm
looking at under the microscope? I'd like to learn more about what I'm
seeing.

The injured fish is still swimming around, but has started resting
(right side up) with its fins against the bottom of the pond. It looks
worn out, but it's still eating and still swimming. It's just taking
more breaks.

Dave

I believe that what you are looking at in the scope is just a string of
algae. They will show up in the slime quite frequently. If it doesn't
move, don't worry about it.

--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html
Zone 7A/B Virginia
"Pond Addict" wrote in message
...
I took scrapings from 3 fish, but didn't see anything that even
closely resembled flukes or any other parasite activity I've read
about. The mucus all looked normal and there wasn't a lot of activity
on the slides.

I did see this thing:
http://homepage.mac.com/pondstuff/PhotoAlbum2.html

I'm not sure what it is. I saw a few of those. Are they just worms?

Also, is there a good source (book or online) for deciphering what I'm
looking at under the microscope? I'd like to learn more about what I'm
seeing.

The injured fish is still swimming around, but has started resting
(right side up) with its fins against the bottom of the pond. It looks
worn out, but it's still eating and still swimming. It's just taking
more breaks.

Dave

On Wed, 9 Apr 2008 09:59:43 EDT, "RichToyBox"
wrote:

I believe that what you are looking at in the scope is just a string of
algae. They will show up in the slime quite frequently. If it doesn't
move, don't worry about it.

Movement is key, I don't find anything unless it is moving... ;-)

Some interesting websites I ran into while googling for parasite pictures:

http://badmanstropicalfish.com/disease.html
http://www.akca.org/library/diease4.htm
http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/inde...tro/index.html

This looks like a great source, found the 2 above from it, unfortunately a
lot of the links are broken, but worth further clicking if one is
interested:
http://www.koitime.com/Content/microscopy.htm ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us