Hi, folks.

I'm posting this on behalf of a close neighbour, who's noticed a
behaviour change in his Koi. I know a little about tropical aquaria,
but nothing about ponds and Koi, so wysiwyg (if you need extra info,
you'll need to ask: I'm going to write all Iknow about the problem).

The pond is 3' deep with a right-angle triangle top-down profile - the
hypotenuse (long side) is 3'. It contains four Koi of varying sizes,
and four large goldfish (although they are only slightly bigger than
the smallest koi). It has an infra-red and biological filter. There is
no aeration from bubbles, that is done by the agitation of the surface
at the filter return.

The behaviour change is that the koi (only) have suddenly started
resting on a ledge at the surface, whereas before they would be
swimming at the bottom. The goldfish are still swimming about the
bottom. Their response to human approach is lethargic - and one was
seen today hanging nose down at the surface.

There are no obvious marks or cysts, all the scales are flat, eyes
clear. They don't seem to be gasping.

They haven't been feeding for a few weeks - the owner is worried that
they might not have built up a reserve to let them overwinter. He needs
to stop feeding them very soon. For this reason a quick response would
be appreciated

The only noticeable change is some lichen-like blooms on the inside
surface of the pond.

Sorry if this isn't enough info for a full diagnosis. I'm going to copy
this to the owner and he'll add anything that might be relevant or
correct anything I've got wrong. In the meantime if anyone takes a
potshot at answering this and needs us to go look for something
specific, let me know. He's just up the road and even if I can't get a
response, I can get in his garden and look for myself.

Thanks for looking...

G

"Gorf" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi, folks.

I'm posting this on behalf of a close neighbour, who's noticed a
behaviour change in his Koi. I know a little about tropical aquaria,
but nothing about ponds and Koi, so wysiwyg (if you need extra info,
you'll need to ask: I'm going to write all Iknow about the problem).
=============
If it's already cold where you are they may have started their winter
hibernation already. When the water cools to a certain temperature they
lose interest in food and become inactive. Can that be the problem? Other
than that it could be anything from parasites to poor water quality to a
predator terrorizing them where no one is around. My fish sometimes hid with
little moving around for days after a heron attack (ponds are netted now).
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

"Gorf" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi, folks.

I'm posting this on behalf of a close neighbour, who's noticed a
behaviour change in his Koi. I know a little about tropical aquaria,
but nothing about ponds and Koi, so wysiwyg (if you need extra info,
you'll need to ask: I'm going to write all Iknow about the problem).

The pond is 3' deep with a right-angle triangle top-down profile - the
hypotenuse (long side) is 3'. It contains four Koi of varying sizes,
and four large goldfish (although they are only slightly bigger than
the smallest koi). It has an infra-red and biological filter. There is
no aeration from bubbles, that is done by the agitation of the surface
at the filter return.

The behaviour change is that the koi (only) have suddenly started
resting on a ledge at the surface, whereas before they would be
swimming at the bottom. The goldfish are still swimming about the
bottom. Their response to human approach is lethargic - and one was
seen today hanging nose down at the surface.

There are no obvious marks or cysts, all the scales are flat, eyes
clear. They don't seem to be gasping.

They haven't been feeding for a few weeks - the owner is worried that
they might not have built up a reserve to let them overwinter. He needs
to stop feeding them very soon. For this reason a quick response would
be appreciated

The only noticeable change is some lichen-like blooms on the inside
surface of the pond.

Sorry if this isn't enough info for a full diagnosis. I'm going to copy
this to the owner and he'll add anything that might be relevant or
correct anything I've got wrong. In the meantime if anyone takes a
potshot at answering this and needs us to go look for something
specific, let me know. He's just up the road and even if I can't get a
response, I can get in his garden and look for myself.

Thanks for looking...

G

Sounds like a water quality problem. Has you
neighbor tested the water? That's a very small
pond for that many large fish.

Think about your tropical fish tanks, the same
principles apply. Overstocking = major problem.

Can't hurt to suggest a partial water change -
see if that helps. Then suggest he do something
about the overstocking. Either give away some
fish or build a bigger pond, fast!

The usual recommendation is 1,000 gallons for
the first koi; 200 gallons thereafter.

Gail

sounds like aeration is bad. how warm is the water? have there been fast drops in
temp? then look for ich. either there isnt enough air OR something has infected the
gills OR something has burned the gills.
Check water parameters including ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, pH and temperature.
Ingrid

"Gorf" wrote:
no aeration from bubbles, that is done by the agitation of the surface
at the filter return.

The behaviour change is that the koi (only) have suddenly started
resting on a ledge at the surface, whereas before they would be
swimming at the bottom. The goldfish are still swimming about the
bottom.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://list.lovemyoldhome.com/web/wa.cgi?REPORT&z=3
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for
any of the recommendations I make.
AND I DID NOT AUTHORIZE ADS AT THE OLD PUREGOLD SITE

Thanks, Koi-lo, Gail & Ingrid.

I've passed on your responses and I'll let you know how he gets on.

To be honest, I thought the aeration was inadequate, but he's had the
fish since I've lived here (4 years) and they haven't changed much in
size. He's assured me it's OK, and their change is sudden, not steady.

I've made him go and buy a water testing kit, and I'll get him to look
for some of the possibilities mentioned.

Watch this space...

Gareth

"Gorf" wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks, Koi-lo, Gail & Ingrid.

I've passed on your responses and I'll let you know how he gets on.

To be honest, I thought the aeration was inadequate, but he's had the
fish since I've lived here (4 years) and they haven't changed much in
size. He's assured me it's OK, and their change is sudden, not steady.

I've made him go and buy a water testing kit, and I'll get him to look
for some of the possibilities mentioned.
================================
I'd be interested to know what happens with his fish. Have a Happy
Thanksgiving. :-)
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

I've passed on your responses and I'll let you know how he gets on.

I've made him go and buy a water testing kit, and I'll get him to look
for some of the possibilities mentioned.
Gareth

Excellent suggestion (test kits) for starters.

Pass this on also: Sick Fish/Pond Form

Please describe your problem, including fish characteristics, like;
whirling, flashing, gasping at surface, wounds, etc.:

Pond Size in Gallons? (litres*.26=US Gallons):

Water Source (Well, Irrigation, City?)
If City how is water treated?: =

Time in Operation?
(How old is the pond/water?):

Liner type? (EPDM,PVC,RUBBER,Cement/Concrete etc):

Fish Population?
Type? Size? QTY, Time in Pond:

Food? Type and Frequency of feedings.:

Pump Type, IN/OUT of pond, GPH etc
(Describe your filtration system as well as possible):

Prefilter media type? Last cleaned?:

Filter is BIO or Mechanical? Last cleaned? How?:

Carbon added? How much? When last changed?:

Aeration? Waterfalls? Bubblers?
Venturies?:

Water Temp?

pH?:

KH?:

Ammonia (ppm or mg/l):

Nitrite (ppm or mg/l):

Nitrate (ppm or mg/l):

Water Color, cloudiness, odor?:

Water changes? (% of pond volume and how often):

Additives used (water conditioners etc):

Tests done by self or another?:

Weather (what's it been like lately?):

Medications used?:

What Zone or Country of residence?:

~ jan
---------------------
See my ponds and filter design:
www.jjspond.us

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website
~ jan/WA
Zone 7a