So, are we in trouble for buying and having them?

What you quoted does not in anyway remotely outlaws ownership of these
plants.

--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

"KenCo" wrote in message
...
"Tom L. La Bron" wrote:

Ken,

Did you actually read this link. It is actually a
Task Force recommendation to the Statutory
Materials To Accompany Coastal and Ocean Law
Regulation and has not a law.


.................................................. .........


Federal Noxious Weed Act

The Federal Noxious Weed Act of 1974 (P.L. 93-629, 7 U.S.C. 2801-2814)
authorizes port-of-entry and
follow-up activities (quarantine, treatment, disposal, control or
eradication programs, etc.) by APHIS to
restrict the introduction and spread of non-native noxious weeds. Under
the Act, no person shall import or
enter any noxious weed identified in regulation, into or through the
United States, or move any noxious weed
interstate, unless done in accordance with regulations issued by the
Secretary. The Act also authorizes
permanent restrictions, after a hearing on the issue, and emergency
regulations for temporary quarantines,
among other things



.................................................. ..........

Alien Species Prevention and Enforcement Act of 1992

This law (ASPEA; P.L. 102-393, 39 U.S.C. 3015; 106 Stat. 1774) makes it
illegal to ship certain categories
of plants and animals through the mail. The prohibited species are

· those injurious animals whose movement is prohibited under 18
U.S.C. 42;32

· those plant pests whose movement is prohibited under the Federal
Plant Pest Act (7 U.S.C.
l50bb or l50cc);

· those plants, articles, or plant matter whose importation or
interstate shipment is prohibited
under the Plant Quarantine Act (7 U.S.C. 151 et seq.); and

· plants and animals whose shipment is prohibited under the Lacey
Act (16 U.S.C. 3372).

.................................................. ...............











In addition, this paper deals primarily with bilge
water and ballast water discharges by ships in the
Great Lakes and Great Lake Regions, manmade
channels connecting these bodies, and navigable
rivers associated with commerce through the St
Lawrence Seaway and the subsequent lakes and
rivers in the region. The Task Force has also
territorial seas to cover all shipping that comes
from all directions to the states from outside our
borders.

The paper mentions water hyacinths once but in
reference the idea that plant can cause problems
along with four other plants including water
chestnuts mentioning that they have caused
problems to navigation in other parts of the
world. No other reference as an aquatic nuisance
is made.

The main trust of the paper is to convince Canada
to join the U.S. in the control of the
bilge/ballast water discharges in the Great Lakes.
And to encourage reciprocal cooperation
environmental impact analysis of major Federal
actions which have significant transboundary
effects on the quality of human environment in the
U.S., Canada, and Mexico (the reason for the
territorial sea references).

Oh, by the way the main reason for this Task Force
was the havoc that has occurred by zebra mussels
what were traced back the ballast water discharges
from a foreign vessel.

So I know that Water Hyacinths are outlawed in
Florida and Texas, but here in Oklahoma they are
not outlawed. Even here in Oklahoma during mild
winters when I was keeping Water hyacinths they
never made it through the winter to grow the
following year.

Tom L.L.
-----------------------------------------


--
http://www.kencofish.com Ken Arnold,
401-781-9642 cell 401-225-0556
Importer/Exporter of Goldfish,Koi,rare Predators
Shipping to legal states/countries only!
Permalon liners, Oase & Supreme Pondmaster pumps


Please Note: No trees or animals were harmed in the
sending of this contaminant free message We do concede
that a signicant number of electrons may have been
inconvenienced.

No, the are already introduced. That is why some states have gone to the
extreme of banning them, especially were the grow prolifically year around.
Kudzu is another one of those noxious weeds, but it grow every where down
south. the only problem with it is that it is mutating and can be found as
far north as New Jersey. Most of these plants can be bought and sold
because where they are being bought and sold, through the winter they will
die. I know that WH will not last outside here in even a mild winter.

Here in Oklahoma the state has banned certain flowering seed plants from
being sold because of the crops that are grown here, but one of them is not
WH.

Most of your federal laws talk about transportation into the country, etc
from outside. If you have ever traveled the highways into California with
fruit there are officials that stop you to confiscate any fruit you can be
bring in because of the possible bugs/eggs that could be carried with them.

Tom L.L.
"LRobi31070" wrote in message
...
So, are we in trouble for buying and having them?

Just Me \"Koi\" wrote:

What you quoted does not in anyway remotely outlaws ownership of these
plants.





it covers how you got them since they dont magicly
appear out of nowhere


many people through ignorance caused the demise of many
indigenous plants, fish, wildlife and entire ecosystems
because of throwing plants, fish etc. into waterways.



--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

"KenCo" wrote in message
...
"Tom L. La Bron" wrote:

Ken,

Did you actually read this link. It is actually a
Task Force recommendation to the Statutory
Materials To Accompany Coastal and Ocean Law
Regulation and has not a law.


.................................................. .........


Federal Noxious Weed Act

The Federal Noxious Weed Act of 1974 (P.L. 93-629, 7 U.S.C. 2801-2814)
authorizes port-of-entry and
follow-up activities (quarantine, treatment, disposal, control or
eradication programs, etc.) by APHIS to
restrict the introduction and spread of non-native noxious weeds. Under
the Act, no person shall import or
enter any noxious weed identified in regulation, into or through the
United States, or move any noxious weed
interstate, unless done in accordance with regulations issued by the
Secretary. The Act also authorizes
permanent restrictions, after a hearing on the issue, and emergency
regulations for temporary quarantines,
among other things



.................................................. ..........

Alien Species Prevention and Enforcement Act of 1992

This law (ASPEA; P.L. 102-393, 39 U.S.C. 3015; 106 Stat. 1774) makes it
illegal to ship certain categories
of plants and animals through the mail. The prohibited species are

· those injurious animals whose movement is prohibited under 18
U.S.C. 42;32

· those plant pests whose movement is prohibited under the Federal
Plant Pest Act (7 U.S.C.
l50bb or l50cc);

· those plants, articles, or plant matter whose importation or
interstate shipment is prohibited
under the Plant Quarantine Act (7 U.S.C. 151 et seq.); and

· plants and animals whose shipment is prohibited under the Lacey
Act (16 U.S.C. 3372).

.................................................. ...............











In addition, this paper deals primarily with bilge
water and ballast water discharges by ships in the
Great Lakes and Great Lake Regions, manmade
channels connecting these bodies, and navigable
rivers associated with commerce through the St
Lawrence Seaway and the subsequent lakes and
rivers in the region. The Task Force has also
territorial seas to cover all shipping that comes
from all directions to the states from outside our
borders.

The paper mentions water hyacinths once but in
reference the idea that plant can cause problems
along with four other plants including water
chestnuts mentioning that they have caused
problems to navigation in other parts of the
world. No other reference as an aquatic nuisance
is made.

The main trust of the paper is to convince Canada
to join the U.S. in the control of the
bilge/ballast water discharges in the Great Lakes.
And to encourage reciprocal cooperation
environmental impact analysis of major Federal
actions which have significant transboundary
effects on the quality of human environment in the
U.S., Canada, and Mexico (the reason for the
territorial sea references).

Oh, by the way the main reason for this Task Force
was the havoc that has occurred by zebra mussels
what were traced back the ballast water discharges
from a foreign vessel.

So I know that Water Hyacinths are outlawed in
Florida and Texas, but here in Oklahoma they are
not outlawed. Even here in Oklahoma during mild
winters when I was keeping Water hyacinths they
never made it through the winter to grow the
following year.

Tom L.L.
-----------------------------------------


--
http://www.kencofish.com Ken Arnold,
401-781-9642 cell 401-225-0556
Importer/Exporter of Goldfish,Koi,rare Predators
Shipping to legal states/countries only!
Permalon liners, Oase & Supreme Pondmaster pumps


Please Note: No trees or animals were harmed in the
sending of this contaminant free message We do concede
that a signicant number of electrons may have been
inconvenienced.


--
http://www.kencofish.com Ken Arnold,
401-781-9642 cell 401-225-0556
Importer/Exporter of Goldfish,Koi,rare Predators
Shipping to legal states/countries only!
Permalon liners, Oase & Supreme Pondmaster pumps


Please Note: No trees or animals were harmed in the
sending of this contaminant free message We do concede
that a signicant number of electrons may have been
inconvenienced.

Your remark is interesting from and odd point of view from someone that
sells KOI, because, Carp, a.k.a. KOI, a.k.a. Goldfish are not indigenous to
the U.S.

Carp were introduced to the U.S. from Germany in the middle 1800's, so by
what you are saying, that makes your selling of KOI here in the U.S. illegal
because of all the Articles (laws, regs) that you posted because they sure
are not indigenous species to the U.S. ;-)

Interesting.

Tom L.L.
-------------------------------------
"KenCo" wrote in message
...
SNIP many people through ignorance caused the demise of many
indigenous plants, fish, wildlife and entire ecosystems
because of throwing plants, fish etc. into waterways.
..

Kenco,

I hope you don't take offense to this line of discussion, but you are
absolutely wrong! W R O N G

The law as you quoted it, does not ban the possession of these plants, nor
does it ban the interstate transportation of the plants.

The law you quoted regulates the interstate, and international importation
of these plants! You Kenco posted and I quote "Under
the Act, no person shall import or
enter any noxious weed identified in regulation, into or through the
United States, or move any noxious weed
interstate, unless done in accordance with regulations issued by the
Secretary. The Act also authorizes
permanent restrictions, after a hearing on the issue, and emergency
regulations for temporary quarantines,
among other things"

statements like "unless done in accordance with" means it is not banned!
"restrictions" is not banned!

As an Architect that wants my potential Clients to trust me and see me as a
credible resource, I must make sure that facts that I quote, and statements
that I make are credible, less I loose the respect of my potential
customers.

Enough said.

--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

"KenCo" wrote in message
...
Just Me \"Koi\" wrote:

What you quoted does not in anyway remotely outlaws ownership of these
plants.





it covers how you got them since they dont magicly
appear out of nowhere


many people through ignorance caused the demise of many
indigenous plants, fish, wildlife and entire ecosystems
because of throwing plants, fish etc. into waterways.



--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

"KenCo" wrote in message
...
"Tom L. La Bron" wrote:

Ken,

Did you actually read this link. It is actually a
Task Force recommendation to the Statutory
Materials To Accompany Coastal and Ocean Law
Regulation and has not a law.


.................................................. .........


Federal Noxious Weed Act

The Federal Noxious Weed Act of 1974 (P.L. 93-629, 7 U.S.C. 2801-2814)
authorizes port-of-entry and
follow-up activities (quarantine, treatment, disposal, control or
eradication programs, etc.) by APHIS to
restrict the introduction and spread of non-native noxious weeds.
Under
the Act, no person shall import or
enter any noxious weed identified in regulation, into or through the
United States, or move any noxious weed
interstate, unless done in accordance with regulations issued by the
Secretary. The Act also authorizes
permanent restrictions, after a hearing on the issue, and emergency
regulations for temporary quarantines,
among other things



.................................................. ..........

Alien Species Prevention and Enforcement Act of 1992

This law (ASPEA; P.L. 102-393, 39 U.S.C. 3015; 106 Stat. 1774) makes
it
illegal to ship certain categories
of plants and animals through the mail. The prohibited species are

· those injurious animals whose movement is prohibited under 18
U.S.C. 42;32

· those plant pests whose movement is prohibited under the
Federal
Plant Pest Act (7 U.S.C.
l50bb or l50cc);

· those plants, articles, or plant matter whose importation or
interstate shipment is prohibited
under the Plant Quarantine Act (7 U.S.C. 151 et seq.); and

· plants and animals whose shipment is prohibited under the Lacey
Act (16 U.S.C. 3372).

.................................................. ...............











In addition, this paper deals primarily with bilge
water and ballast water discharges by ships in the
Great Lakes and Great Lake Regions, manmade
channels connecting these bodies, and navigable
rivers associated with commerce through the St
Lawrence Seaway and the subsequent lakes and
rivers in the region. The Task Force has also
territorial seas to cover all shipping that comes
from all directions to the states from outside our
borders.

The paper mentions water hyacinths once but in
reference the idea that plant can cause problems
along with four other plants including water
chestnuts mentioning that they have caused
problems to navigation in other parts of the
world. No other reference as an aquatic nuisance
is made.

The main trust of the paper is to convince Canada
to join the U.S. in the control of the
bilge/ballast water discharges in the Great Lakes.
And to encourage reciprocal cooperation
environmental impact analysis of major Federal
actions which have significant transboundary
effects on the quality of human environment in the
U.S., Canada, and Mexico (the reason for the
territorial sea references).

Oh, by the way the main reason for this Task Force
was the havoc that has occurred by zebra mussels
what were traced back the ballast water discharges
from a foreign vessel.

So I know that Water Hyacinths are outlawed in
Florida and Texas, but here in Oklahoma they are
not outlawed. Even here in Oklahoma during mild
winters when I was keeping Water hyacinths they
never made it through the winter to grow the
following year.

Tom L.L.
-----------------------------------------


--
http://www.kencofish.com Ken Arnold,
401-781-9642 cell 401-225-0556
Importer/Exporter of Goldfish,Koi,rare Predators
Shipping to legal states/countries only!
Permalon liners, Oase & Supreme Pondmaster pumps


Please Note: No trees or animals were harmed in the
sending of this contaminant free message We do concede
that a signicant number of electrons may have been
inconvenienced.


--
http://www.kencofish.com Ken Arnold,
401-781-9642 cell 401-225-0556
Importer/Exporter of Goldfish,Koi,rare Predators
Shipping to legal states/countries only!
Permalon liners, Oase & Supreme Pondmaster pumps


Please Note: No trees or animals were harmed in the
sending of this contaminant free message We do concede
that a signicant number of electrons may have been
inconvenienced.

Tom La Bron wrote:

Your remark is interesting from and odd point of view from someone that
sells KOI, because, Carp, a.k.a. KOI, a.k.a. Goldfish are not indigenous to
the U.S.

Carp were introduced to the U.S. from Germany in the middle 1800's, so by
what you are saying, that makes your selling of KOI here in the U.S. illegal
because of all the Articles (laws, regs) that you posted because they sure
are not indigenous species to the U.S. ;-)

Interesting.

Tom L.L.


Koi and Goldfish aren't classified as "noxious",
water hyacinth is


FWIW:
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
[Authority: 29 O.S., Sections 3-103, 6-601]
[Source: Codified 3-5-91]

800:20-3-1. Purpose

The purpose of this chapter is to describe rules pertaining to noxious
aquatic plants and/or their seeds, stems or parts
in Oklahoma pursuant to 29 O.S., Section 6-601.

800:20-3-2. List of declared noxious aquatic plant species

(a) Pursuant to 29 O.S. Section 6-601, the following plants, seeds or
plant parts are hereby declared t o be noxious:

Scientific name Most Common Name
(aka)

Azolla pinnata Mosquito Fern (Water
Velvet, Water Fern)
Caulerpa taxifolia Caulerpa
(Mediterranean Clone of Caulerpa)
Eichhornia azure Anchored Water
Hyacinth (Rooted Water Hyacinth, Blue Water

Hyacinth, Saw-petal Water Hyacinth)
Hydrilla verticillata Hydrilla (Florida
Elodea, Star Vine, Oxygen Plant, Oxygen Weed)
Hygrophila polysperma Hygro (Miramar Weed, Green
Hygro, Oriental Ludwigia, East Indian

Hygrophila)
Ipomoea aquatica Water Spinach (Swamp
Morning Glory, Chinese Water Spinach, Water

Bindweed, Aquatic Morning Glory)
Lagarosiphon major African Elodea (Oxygen
Weed)
Limnophila species Ambulila (Asian
Marshweed, Limno, Red Ambulia, Indian Ambulia)
Lythrum salicaria Purple Loosestrife
(Loosestrife)
Marsilea quadrifolia Marsilea (European
Waterclover, Four-leaf Clover Fern, Water Fern,Water

Clover, Hairy Pepperwort)
Marsilea mutica Australian Waterclover
(Varigated Water-clover, Nardoo)
Marsilea minuta Waterclover
Melaleuca quinquenervia Paperbark Tree (Melaleuca,
Cajeput, Punk)
Monochoria hastata Cat’s Claw (Monochoria)
Ottellia alismoides Duck Lettuce

Sagittaria sagittifolia Japanese Arrowhead
(Hawaiian Arrowhead, Common
Arrowhead,
Chinese Arrowhead)
Salvinia auriculata Giant Salvinia
(Butterfly Fern, Water Fern, Water Moss)
Salvinia biloba Giant Salvinia
(Salvinia)
Salvinia herzogii Giant Salvinia
(Salvinia)
Salvinia molesta Giant Salvinia
(Salvinia, Water Velvet, Karibaweed, Koi Kandy)
Solanum tampicense Wetland Nightshade
Sparganium erectum Exotic Bur-reed
Glossostigma diandrum Mud Mat
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


--
http://www.kencofish.com Ken Arnold,
401-781-9642 cell 401-225-0556
Importer/Exporter of Goldfish,Koi,rare Predators
Shipping to legal states/countries only!
Permalon liners, Oase & Supreme Pondmaster pumps


Please Note: No trees or animals were harmed in the
sending of this contaminant free message We do concede
that a signicant number of electrons may have been
inconvenienced.

"Snooze" wrote:

Well I found them!

The Summerwinds Nursery on Almaden Expressway, between highway 85 and
Branham.

They are selling them for $1.99 each, I have no idea if that's a fair price
or not though, but I bought 3, since I figure it's better then having to
drive about town looking for others that have them.

Here in Indiana they typically go for $5 each, except later in the
summer when the ponders who bought early are cleaning out all their
"offspring". I'm working on getting together a group order -
waterplants.com sells them for $1.50, and VJ's pond plants sells them
for $1 if you buy a hundred.


Roger Grady
To reply by email, remove "qlfit." from address

I think the importance of this discussion is to make all of us aware of the
fact WH is on the noxious weed list. Unless there is a difference between
anchored water hyacinths and the ones we float in the pond?

It is a shame that instead of banning something, the requirement isn't that
the seller needs to educate the buyer. Pesticides have warning labels and
have done a hectic of a lot more damage to our environment nation wide than
the WH, yet they aren't banned, the public is educated. Granted there will
always be fools who think they know better, but fools aren't banned
either.....

What I see right now is ponders trying to winter these plants over in the
pond by sinking them, the few that survive will most likely breed more that
survive the cold and therefore we eventually may have a winter adapted
species. I know that situation is what one of our state's weed PhD is
worried about.

So IMO, the plants should be sold with "Do Not" information so ponders
don't ever feel the need to harbor them.

After all that's what they've done with the gambusia, the mosquito district
brings them out free, but only they can transport them. WH could similarity
be restricted in states w/winter. ~ jan

See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website


-----------== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----= Over 100,000 Newsgroups - Unlimited Fast Downloads - 19 Servers =-----

"~ jan" wrote :

It is a shame that instead of banning something, the requirement isn't
that
the seller needs to educate the buyer.

I would agree except that one idiot with dursban doesn't make half the
problem one idiot with WH can.


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.471 / Virus Database: 269 - Release Date: 4/10/03

Zone 7
The WH that i sank and tied to a brick, has new growth on it. That
might be the ticket in over wintering if the winter isn't too harsh.

Zone 7
The WH that i sank and tied to a brick, has new growth on it. That
might be the ticket in over wintering if the winter isn't too harsh.

wow that is an idea...think I will try it this year....where do you live ....I
am in the Atlanta area so zone 7B Jerri

http://www.fringeweb.com/Ponds/JerrisPond

10 miles north of fort worth, texas.


On 15 Apr 2003 01:31:23 GMT, (Jerrispond) wrote:

Zone 7
The WH that i sank and tied to a brick, has new growth on it. That
might be the ticket in over wintering if the winter isn't too harsh.

wow that is an idea...think I will try it this year....where do you live ....I
am in the Atlanta area so zone 7B Jerri

http://www.fringeweb.com/Ponds/JerrisPond