Gareee© wrote:

"Derek Broughton" wrote in message
...

Please, don't just recommend he change his breakers without any analysis.
You'll have him burning his house down! Not to mention that an amateur
really shouldn't work in a breaker box _without_ turning off the main
breaker (as my wife continually tells me!).

I'd turn it off anyway.. I don;t mind resetting a few clocks, rather then
get a nasty "surge".

First, what size are the breakers in your laundry room and outdoor
circuits?

The outdoor ones are 15, and the laundry room is 30.

That's vastly out-of-code. Typically a laundry room might have a 30 amp
breaker _for the dryer_. Household circuits are not 30 amps.
--
derek

"Derek Broughton" wrote in message
...

That's vastly out-of-code. Typically a laundry room might have a 30 amp
breaker _for the dryer_. Household circuits are not 30 amps.

Yep, the dryer/washer are on the 30 amp, but the electrical plug for that
room is run off them.

I'm sure it's proper code, because I was here when the building inspector
looked at the box, and applied an approval sticker to it.

The 15s are just labeled "lights" but they run the lights and sockets in the
bathroom, and also the outdoor sockets as well. (This was the same in a
previous manufactered home we had as well.)

--
Gareee©
(Gary Tabar Jr.)

Gareee© wrote:

"Derek Broughton" wrote in message
...

That's vastly out-of-code. Typically a laundry room might have a 30 amp
breaker _for the dryer_. Household circuits are not 30 amps.

Yep, the dryer/washer are on the 30 amp, but the electrical plug for that
room is run off them.

I'm sure it's proper code, because I was here when the building inspector
looked at the box, and applied an approval sticker to it.

As I said, I don't know US code, but that sounds pretty fishy. Even so, if
done _safely_, regardless of code, it would require that the electrical
receptacle be supplied from the dryer outlet via #10 cable - because it's
possible for you to supply a 30A draw without blowing that breaker, and it
takes a #10 cable to handle that. Your outdoor circuit will certainly NOT
be supplied with a 30A cable (in the first place, it's extremely difficult
to work with), so it won't be safe to change the breaker to 30A.

That said, if you're using tools outdoors that are popping a 15A breaker,
and you're not even using extension cords, it sounds as if your tools are
at fault, not your wiring.
--
derek

On the adaptor it will say something like input: 120v ac, output 9v dc 500
mA. In this case you're looking for something that has an output of 12v dc
and 1000 mA, which will give you a slightly dimmer bulb, but a longer bulb
lifespan.

Yes ...if you want the full Wattage from the bulb then
ex: 12 volt bulb at 20 watts 20W/12V= 1.67 Amps is the minimum
transformer you will need but as you said if you want lower brightness
then you can go lower as you please.

This will overload the transformer and it will get hot.

"Gareee©" writes:

SPEAKING of which... the GFCI's in my manufactured Clayton home have fuses
that are too low for outdoor electric tools, like my leaf blower, and my
pressure washer.

You are confusing GFCI and circuit breaker I think.

Can I just replace those with higher wattage ones, like some of the other
fuses in my home? (The laundry rooms fuse is MUCH higher, and is where we
plug the outdoor tools into when we use them, bu tit would be MUCH easier to
just use the outdoor plugs.)

The breaker box looks pretty "plug n play".. turn the main power off,
replace the breaker with a higher volt/watt one, and then turn the master
breaker back on.

The breakers are sized to protect your house wiring.

First check to see if the tool max amp rating exceeds the breaker rating.
If so, you cannot use that tool with that outlet.

Someone else suggested you check your extension cord rating. You might also
plug your tools into the outdoor outlet without an extension cord to see
if you can still make the breaker trip. If it does not trip, that would
point to the extension cord being undersized. If it does trip and
the tool rating is less than the breaker rating then either the tool or the
breaker is defective.

"Gareee©" writes:

"Derek Broughton" wrote in message
...

That's vastly out-of-code. Typically a laundry room might have a 30 amp
breaker _for the dryer_. Household circuits are not 30 amps.

Yep, the dryer/washer are on the 30 amp, but the electrical plug for that
room is run off them.

If its not a 30 amp outlet then its wrong, you have a 30A breaker protecting
a 20A outlet.

"Derek Broughton" wrote in message
...

That said, if you're using tools outdoors that are popping a 15A breaker,
and you're not even using extension cords, it sounds as if your tools are
at fault, not your wiring.

So one year old should not work properly outdoors? I don;t believe it is the
tools fault,. if anything, insufficient wiring and capability was built into
the house.

What's odd, is as I mentioned, our old manufactured home had the exact same
issue.

If anything I suspect that both home manufactures were just building (like
everyone else) as cheaply as possible, supplying bare minimum required by
law.

Is the power cabling marked in any fashion as to it's load abilities?

It might just be easier to add an additional external GFCI to the house,
tapping off the laundry room power. (There's a plug on the exterior wall,
and I could probably tap off that with the proper cable and box. Since most
times I'm using an outside gfci near that room anyway, I could run the
outdoor tools easily off that, and eventually, run power from that to the
pond, and that would free the load from the other recepticles.

--
Gareee©
(Gary Tabar Jr.)

"Andrew Burgess" wrote in message
...
"Gareee©" writes:

First check to see if the tool max amp rating exceeds the breaker rating.
If so, you cannot use that tool with that outlet.

It does, which is why it trips the breaker. and my only solution with th
ecurrent setup, is to open a window, and run the cord through the window,
and plug it in by the dryer. needless to say, using the pressure washer on
that location of the house doesn;t thrill me with that setup.


Someone else suggested you check your extension cord rating. You might
also
plug your tools into the outdoor outlet without an extension cord to see
if you can still make the breaker trip. If it does not trip, that would
point to the extension cord being undersized. If it does trip and
the tool rating is less than the breaker rating then either the tool or
the
breaker is defective.

No extension cord at all.. just the cords coming off the tools, and both are
almost like new still.

--
Gareee©
(Gary Tabar Jr.)

Thanks for all the feedback, guys.

Clayton builds homes on almost an assembly line system, so you don't really
get many odd occurrances in design or manufacture, because they do it 20
times a day, much like automobiles are manufactured.

I'm sure you still get "Joe Blow" screwing something up, but Claytons are
one of the highest rated home manufacturers, and everything is actually
build to stick built code, rather then manufactered home codes.

They cost more, but after owning a lesser brand, we felt the additional
money was a worthwhile investment.

I've never looked into just an outside yard power supply. That might be the
best solution.

(Course, depends on how much that sets up back.)

What do you guys do with bigger pumps that suck more juice?


--
Gareee©
(Gary Tabar Jr.)

On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 13:22:46 -0300, Derek Broughton
wrote:

Gareee© wrote:

"Derek Broughton" wrote in message
...

That's vastly out-of-code. Typically a laundry room might have a 30 amp
breaker _for the dryer_. Household circuits are not 30 amps.

Yep, the dryer/washer are on the 30 amp, but the electrical plug for that
room is run off them.

I'm sure it's proper code, because I was here when the building inspector
looked at the box, and applied an approval sticker to it.

As I said, I don't know US code, but that sounds pretty fishy. Even so, if
done _safely_, regardless of code, it would require that the electrical
receptacle be supplied from the dryer outlet via #10 cable - because it's
possible for you to supply a 30A draw without blowing that breaker, and it
takes a #10 cable to handle that. Your outdoor circuit will certainly NOT
be supplied with a 30A cable (in the first place, it's extremely difficult
to work with), so it won't be safe to change the breaker to 30A.

That said, if you're using tools outdoors that are popping a 15A breaker,
and you're not even using extension cords, it sounds as if your tools are
at fault, not your wiring.

Agreed. Power tools shouldn't be blowing 15 amp fuses or breakers. And
if in doubt about safety, go with the Canadian code, it's much more
conservative and better thought out than the U.S. code.

-- Mister Gardener

On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 13:01:33 -0400, Galen Hekhuis
wrote:

On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 11:30:01 -0400, "Gareee©"
wrote:

"Derek Broughton" wrote in message
...

That's vastly out-of-code. Typically a laundry room might have a 30 amp
breaker _for the dryer_. Household circuits are not 30 amps.

Yep, the dryer/washer are on the 30 amp, but the electrical plug for that
room is run off them.

I'm sure it's proper code, because I was here when the building inspector
looked at the box, and applied an approval sticker to it.

The 15s are just labeled "lights" but they run the lights and sockets in the
bathroom, and also the outdoor sockets as well. (This was the same in a
previous manufactered home we had as well.)

Unfortunately you can't be sure something is "to code" simply because some
inspector looked at it. An inspector usually just does spot checks, and if
those are OK then the assumption is that everything else is OK too. That
may or may not be the case. In the event some licensed electrician does
it, there is a very good likelihood that a separate, new circuit will be
run. Hey, you may well get away with just popping in a higher rated
circuit breaker and things may be just fine.

Even things that are "to code" may not be safe. The socket connection may
be rated at 20 amps, the wire may be rated at 20 amps, but the clod that
connected the wire to the socket may have done it in such a ham-fisted
method that it can handle only about 10 amps before severely overheating.
The circuit breaker won't blow, the wiring is fine, but a fire can result
even though everything is "to code."

If you really want to do it yourself read up on it, and double check to
make sure the power is off. Have someone standing by with a non-conducting
pole (to push you away from the circuit) and who knows CPR (electrocution
often stops a heart, but it needn't be fatal if you can get the heart going
again). Use only one hand. The minute you use both hands you provide a
path for electricity from one hand to the other -- directly across your
heart. Using only one hand causes any electrical path to go through your
shoes or something -- less likely and if it happens slightly less likely to
cause fatal damage.

If it was up to me I'd run (or have run) a completely independent 30 amp
service for the outside. New wire, new weatherproof socket, new breaker,
the works. It isn't hard work at all, but the stakes can be a bit high.
I'd give some thought to having the work done by someone who routinely does
this kind of stuff without dying.

Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA
Illiterate? Write for FREE help

Agreed. I have a small vocabulary today. A dedicated line for what you
plan to do outdoors is the way to go. And you'll have it in place for
anything else you want to plug in outdoors someday. You can do nearly
all of the grunt work yourself, then hire an electrician to look it
over. A half hour of his or her time is a lot cheaper than all the
time needed to do the full installation.

-- Mister Gardener

"Gareee©" wrote in message
...
"Derek Broughton" wrote in message
...

That said, if you're using tools outdoors that are popping a 15A breaker,
and you're not even using extension cords, it sounds as if your tools are
at fault, not your wiring.

So one year old should not work properly outdoors? I don;t believe it is
the tools fault,. if anything, insufficient wiring and capability was
built into the house.


You mentioned that you're blowing your 15 amp circuit when you use outdoor
christmas lights and outdoor yard equipment. Exactly what kind of outdoor
yard equipment are we talking about?

A cursory glance of electrical yard equipment at
http://www.blackanddecker.com doesn't show anything using more then 13 amps.
Leaf blower = 12 amps,
hedge trimmer = 2.4 amps.
lawn mower = 12 amps.
pressure washer = 13 amps.

Since this is rec.ponds, I'm going to guess the pond pump is also on this
outdoor circuit, a leaf blower + pump + outdoor light transformer +
sprinkler system could push you over 15 amps if they're all on the same
circuit.

I bet they probably used the lowest gauge wire that the code allows them to
use, popping in a 20 or 30 amp breaker probably isn't the right solution. A
better solution might be to get an electrician to pull an additional circuit
on an independent breaker.

-S

On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 14:06:13 -0400, "Gareee©"
wrote:

Thanks for all the feedback, guys.

Clayton builds homes on almost an assembly line system, so you don't really
get many odd occurrances in design or manufacture, because they do it 20
times a day, much like automobiles are manufactured.

I'm sure you still get "Joe Blow" screwing something up, but Claytons are
one of the highest rated home manufacturers, and everything is actually
build to stick built code, rather then manufactered home codes.

They cost more, but after owning a lesser brand, we felt the additional
money was a worthwhile investment.

I've never looked into just an outside yard power supply. That might be the
best solution.

(Course, depends on how much that sets up back.)

What do you guys do with bigger pumps that suck more juice?

I run an air pump for the aerator, not any kind of water pump. I have a
completely independent circuit that goes to a "weatherproof" outlet
outside. I drag around a 1500W inverter and battery pack that runs a weed
whacker, an electric tiller, I've even used it to run my microwave. I'm
not much of a fan of long extension cords for even moderate loads like
that. Granted, it doesn't run them all at once and it doesn't run them
terribly long before I've got to recharge the unit, but I've got a really
bad attitude about small gas engines, so I try to stick to electric stuff.

Electrical wiring is pretty easy, technically speaking, it's just that the
stakes are so high. If someone accidentally cuts on the water while you
are doing some plumbing, maybe some stuff gets wet. If someone
accidentally turns on the circuit while you are working on it, you could
croak. Screw up your bathroom plumbing and maybe the toilet doesn't flush.
Screw up the wiring, and maybe the house burns down.

Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA
Illiterate? Write for FREE help

Andrew Burgess wrote:
On the adaptor it will say something like input: 120v ac, output 9v dc 500
mA. In this case you're looking for something that has an output of 12v dc
and 1000 mA, which will give you a slightly dimmer bulb, but a longer bulb
lifespan.

Yes ...if you want the full Wattage from the bulb then
ex: 12 volt bulb at 20 watts 20W/12V= 1.67 Amps is the minimum
transformer you will need but as you said if you want lower brightness
then you can go lower as you please.

This will overload the transformer and it will get hot.

If a transformer is rated for a certain current then it can take this
current. It is when you go over the rated current that a transformer
gets too hot (they all get a little warm).

Derek Broughton wrote:

Please, don't just recommend he change his breakers without any analysis.
You'll have him burning his house down! Not to mention that an amateur
really shouldn't work in a breaker box _without_ turning off the main
breaker (as my wife continually tells me!).


I believe he was asking to work on the outdoor outlet and NOT the box.
I just recommended that he switch off the power to the outlet box he is
working on. Changing those outlets is no harder than changing the light
fixtures in your house.