I was curious if there's a good book out there on defensive pond
design. I have been having numerous problems with my latest pond
involving the technology that supports it. For example, I've had
problems with:

1) The pond draining because the filter overflowed
2) Fish dying because the pump stops
3) UV clarifier that died for no reason

It's basically been an entire season of BS for me with the pond. The
thing I'm tired of the most is the pump stopping on me. It's not
clogged because the thing is enclosed in a large pump protector. If
the power goes out for just a fraction of a second I'm at risk of the
pump deciding not to turn back on when the power returns. Overloads
and GPF issues are not in play here because the other device on the
outlet continues to work and the pump comes back online when I pull out
the plug and plug it back in again.

I also have a Laguna Filter Falls waterfall and it has overflow holes
at the top. Unfortunately those holes can't be connected to a tube, so
when the filter decides to overflow there's nothing I can do about it.
This happened recently because those filter balls somehow got loose
from their section and jammed up the outflows. I don't think this ever
happened before and I had 3 clog up at once and lost several hundred
gallons of water.

What I need are a book of tips to prevent BS with things like:
1) Use foam instead of filter balls because the balls will just clog up
the filter's tubing
2) Look for XYZ when choosing an external filter so that you don't risk
returning to a drained pond after returning from a trip
3) Look for XYZ when choosing a pump so that you don't risk returning
to a pond of dead fish after returning from a trip

scs0 wrote:

I was curious if there's a good book out there on defensive pond
design. I have been having numerous problems with my latest pond
involving the technology that supports it. For example, I've had
problems with:

I don't know of specific books, but:

1) The pond draining because the filter overflowed

Filters should be designed so that if the primary exit becomes choked, they
should overflow back into the pond. This isn't terribly difficult to do.

2) Fish dying because the pump stops

There's two reasons that immediately come to mind. Either simply too little
oxygen for the fish load - and the only cure for that is lower load - or
water that heats up too much if left standing (which is closely related,
because warm water contains less oxygen), which is best handled by having
lots of plant coverage.

3) UV clarifier that died for no reason

The best defense against that is to eliminate the UV. I don't consider them
worth the trouble.

It's basically been an entire season of BS for me with the pond. The
thing I'm tired of the most is the pump stopping on me. It's not
clogged because the thing is enclosed in a large pump protector.

A "large pump protector" hardly means it can't be clogged. Algae can get in
and clog impellers, or the "protector" itself could be clogged.

If
the power goes out for just a fraction of a second I'm at risk of the
pump deciding not to turn back on when the power returns. Overloads
and GPF issues are not in play here because the other device on the
outlet continues to work and the pump comes back online when I pull out
the plug and plug it back in again.

Sounds very odd that it _won't_ come back on if the power goes out, but it
_will_ come back on if you unplug it. From the pump's point of view,
they're the same thing! Anyway, it sounds very much like a pump with an
overheat protection switch. Which could be caused by either of the above
possibilities.

I also have a Laguna Filter Falls waterfall and it has overflow holes
at the top. Unfortunately those holes can't be connected to a tube,

I'd use through-bulkhead fixtures in the holes - big enough to fill the
hole, fasten plumbing to them and you're done. Of course, if you've got
loose "stuff" plugging your current outlet, it's likely to plug them too.

What I need are a book of tips to prevent BS with things like:
1) Use foam instead of filter balls because the balls will just clog up
the filter's tubing

I don't think that's really an improvement. Foam clogs too. Filters need
to be cleaned occasionally - depending on fish load, perhaps even weekly.

3) Look for XYZ when choosing a pump so that you don't risk returning
to a pond of dead fish after returning from a trip

LARGE bores. I used a pump that could pass 3/4 inch solids (yet was still
only using 215W) in my 5000g pond. Practically nothing could clog it
(including fish - fry may have gone in, but if they did they went right
through the plumbing). I used no pre-filter and never had to clean it
mid-season.
--
derek

Derek covered a lot of XYZ, so I won't go over more of the same (so forgive
me for top posting).

My 2 cents I'd like to add are this. Even when my ponds have run
problemless all summer for years, I'd never leave them unattended. Now my
family situation is such, that they never are, but back when we took family
trips, I had a trusted pond sitter. Someone who knew my ponds come over
twice a day and knew what to do if there was a problem.

If you don't have a local ponding buddy, look for a club and make some.
Otherwise there are pet sitters who will work for money. ;-) ~ jan

One Book, but not sure it will cover everything is The Pond Doctor, by
Helen Nash. I don't think it covered filters though.

-----------------

Also ponding troll free at:
http://groups.google.com/group/The-Freshwater-Aquarium

On 26 Jul 2006 09:32:54 -0700, "scs0" wrote:

I was curious if there's a good book out there on defensive pond
design. I have been having numerous problems with my latest pond
involving the technology that supports it. For example, I've had
problems with:

1) The pond draining because the filter overflowed
2) Fish dying because the pump stops
3) UV clarifier that died for no reason

It's basically been an entire season of BS for me with the pond. The
thing I'm tired of the most is the pump stopping on me. It's not
clogged because the thing is enclosed in a large pump protector. If
the power goes out for just a fraction of a second I'm at risk of the
pump deciding not to turn back on when the power returns. Overloads
and GPF issues are not in play here because the other device on the
outlet continues to work and the pump comes back online when I pull out
the plug and plug it back in again.

I also have a Laguna Filter Falls waterfall and it has overflow holes
at the top. Unfortunately those holes can't be connected to a tube, so
when the filter decides to overflow there's nothing I can do about it.
This happened recently because those filter balls somehow got loose
from their section and jammed up the outflows. I don't think this ever
happened before and I had 3 clog up at once and lost several hundred
gallons of water.

What I need are a book of tips to prevent BS with things like:
1) Use foam instead of filter balls because the balls will just clog up
the filter's tubing
2) Look for XYZ when choosing an external filter so that you don't risk
returning to a drained pond after returning from a trip
3) Look for XYZ when choosing a pump so that you don't risk returning
to a pond of dead fish after returning from a trip

I too have had problems in the past, so...............
I built my koi pond with a veggie filter. It is designed sitting OVER the pond and
with a drip edge so if it overflows (it really cant), but if it got a hole or
something the water falls back into the pond.
NO PART OF THE FILTER OR PUMP IS ANYWHERE OUTSIDE THE POND
the waterfall is such that wind cannot blow the water out of the pond either.
http://weloveteaching.com/mypond/2000/p2000.htm
THE POND IS NOT OVERSTOCKED
so even IF the pump and air stops, the fish are fine for a while. a high surface to
volume ration helps in cooler climates. in hotter climates the temp of the water
MUST be kept under 80 degrees because the hotter the less oxygen holding capacity.
screen cloth if nothing else. my ponds dont face south AND the veggie filter and big
lily shade the water even more.
pea soup algae in hot weather sucks the oxygen out of the water at night. very bad
scenario for loosing aeration in hot summer
the UV and the pump that serves the UV are on the same circuit so IF the circuit goes
off or is blown the UV does not burn out from lack of water cooling.
Get a big Oase pump or a pump with a fantastic service record and keep a backup. my
pump hangs by the hose only half way down or 2' so it doesnt suck stuff off the
bottom and cant drain the pond. the hose is clamped down so it cant "jump" out of
the filter. BTW, filter returns have to be unblockable and much larger than the hose
output. mine is an open waterfall so that cannot happen.
some pumps seem to get hung up after electricity shuts off. usually these are pumps
that have overheated in the past or been clogged. I have one that has to be "bumped"
to get it started after it shuts off. the pond it is on has a big aquatic ecosystems
reciprocating blower on it so there is going to be aeration if not filtration.
I will say it again. there is NOTHING like a veggie filter for trouble free ponding.
my ONLY problem is the plants die in fall and I gotta get em up and running in spring
before I can start feeding my koi normal rations every day. feeding high protein/fat
and low carbohydrate/grain means a whole lot less detritus that can clog the filter,
altho with a veggie filter there simply is no way to clog it up. Ingrid

"scs0" wrote:
1) The pond draining because the filter overflowed
2) Fish dying because the pump stops
3) UV clarifier that died for no reason

It's basically been an entire season of BS for me with the pond. The
thing I'm tired of the most is the pump stopping on me. It's not
clogged because the thing is enclosed in a large pump protector. If
the power goes out for just a fraction of a second I'm at risk of the
pump deciding not to turn back on when the power returns. Overloads
and GPF issues are not in play here because the other device on the
outlet continues to work and the pump comes back online when I pull out
the plug and plug it back in again.

I also have a Laguna Filter Falls waterfall and it has overflow holes
at the top. Unfortunately those holes can't be connected to a tube, so
when the filter decides to overflow there's nothing I can do about it.
This happened recently because those filter balls somehow got loose
from their section and jammed up the outflows. I don't think this ever
happened before and I had 3 clog up at once and lost several hundred
gallons of water.

What I need are a book of tips to prevent BS with things like:
1) Use foam instead of filter balls because the balls will just clog up
the filter's tubing
2) Look for XYZ when choosing an external filter so that you don't risk
returning to a drained pond after returning from a trip
3) Look for XYZ when choosing a pump so that you don't risk returning
to a pond of dead fish after returning from a trip



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?...s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan

I remember you pond being 4 feet deep? How do you clean the bottom?
~ jan

On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 15:43:46 GMT, wrote:

I too have had problems in the past, so...............
I built my koi pond with a veggie filter. It is designed sitting OVER the pond and
with a drip edge so if it overflows (it really cant), but if it got a hole or
something the water falls back into the pond.
NO PART OF THE FILTER OR PUMP IS ANYWHERE OUTSIDE THE POND
the waterfall is such that wind cannot blow the water out of the pond either.
http://weloveteaching.com/mypond/2000/p2000.htm
THE POND IS NOT OVERSTOCKED
so even IF the pump and air stops, the fish are fine for a while. a high surface to
volume ration helps in cooler climates. in hotter climates the temp of the water
MUST be kept under 80 degrees because the hotter the less oxygen holding capacity.
screen cloth if nothing else. my ponds dont face south AND the veggie filter and big
lily shade the water even more.
pea soup algae in hot weather sucks the oxygen out of the water at night. very bad
scenario for loosing aeration in hot summer
the UV and the pump that serves the UV are on the same circuit so IF the circuit goes
off or is blown the UV does not burn out from lack of water cooling.
Get a big Oase pump or a pump with a fantastic service record and keep a backup. my
pump hangs by the hose only half way down or 2' so it doesnt suck stuff off the
bottom and cant drain the pond. the hose is clamped down so it cant "jump" out of
the filter. BTW, filter returns have to be unblockable and much larger than the hose
output. mine is an open waterfall so that cannot happen.
some pumps seem to get hung up after electricity shuts off. usually these are pumps
that have overheated in the past or been clogged. I have one that has to be "bumped"
to get it started after it shuts off. the pond it is on has a big aquatic ecosystems
reciprocating blower on it so there is going to be aeration if not filtration.
I will say it again. there is NOTHING like a veggie filter for trouble free ponding.
my ONLY problem is the plants die in fall and I gotta get em up and running in spring
before I can start feeding my koi normal rations every day. feeding high protein/fat
and low carbohydrate/grain means a whole lot less detritus that can clog the filter,
altho with a veggie filter there simply is no way to clog it up. Ingrid

"scs0" wrote:
1) The pond draining because the filter overflowed
2) Fish dying because the pump stops
3) UV clarifier that died for no reason

It's basically been an entire season of BS for me with the pond. The
thing I'm tired of the most is the pump stopping on me. It's not
clogged because the thing is enclosed in a large pump protector. If
the power goes out for just a fraction of a second I'm at risk of the
pump deciding not to turn back on when the power returns. Overloads
and GPF issues are not in play here because the other device on the
outlet continues to work and the pump comes back online when I pull out
the plug and plug it back in again.

I also have a Laguna Filter Falls waterfall and it has overflow holes
at the top. Unfortunately those holes can't be connected to a tube, so
when the filter decides to overflow there's nothing I can do about it.
This happened recently because those filter balls somehow got loose
from their section and jammed up the outflows. I don't think this ever
happened before and I had 3 clog up at once and lost several hundred
gallons of water.

What I need are a book of tips to prevent BS with things like:
1) Use foam instead of filter balls because the balls will just clog up
the filter's tubing
2) Look for XYZ when choosing an external filter so that you don't risk
returning to a drained pond after returning from a trip
3) Look for XYZ when choosing a pump so that you don't risk returning
to a pond of dead fish after returning from a trip



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?...s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan
-----------------

Also ponding troll free at:
http://groups.google.com/group/The-Freshwater-Aquarium

wrote:

Good advice Ingrid (coz' it echoed mine :-) )

Get a big Oase pump or a pump with a fantastic service record and keep a
backup. my pump hangs by the hose only half way down or 2' so it doesnt
suck stuff off the bottom and cant drain the pond.

I forgot that - I'm not sure I like the idea of hanging the pump by the
hose, but mine is suspended about a foot above the bottom of the pond, too
(using a couple of strands of copper wire, attached to two pieces of rebar
embedded in the ground at opposite sides of the pond.

I will say it again. there is NOTHING like a veggie filter for trouble
free ponding. my ONLY problem is the plants die in fall and I gotta get em
up and running in spring

Absolutely!

--
derek

wrote in message
...
a high surface to
volume ration helps in cooler climates. in hotter climates the temp of
the water
MUST be kept under 80 degrees because the hotter the less oxygen holding
capacity.
===============================
My ponds here in the mid-south reach temps into the 90s, even with cover.
So far, so good. No koi or GF have died during these high temp periods.
There is no way to cool them.
--
KL....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

yes, it is 4 feet deep. I dont clean the bottom. there is nothing on the bottom
except some gravel the koi have removed from the lily pot. I can see the gravel,
even see the label that fell off one pot 4 years ago. I can still see folds on the
bottom if I look hard. the koi stir up the bottom, that goes into the pump, into the
veggie filter where it sits until fall when I suck the mulm out of the veggie filter.
there are no leaves dropping into the pond, there are few trees in the adjacent area
actually and the pond is netted in any case.
Ingrid

~ janj wrote:

I remember you pond being 4 feet deep? How do you clean the bottom?
~ jan


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?...s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan

On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 12:03:56 GMT, wrote:

the koi stir up the bottom, that goes into the pump, into the
veggie filter where it sits until fall when I suck the mulm out

This is very true, big koi do house/pond work, I always say. Leaves being a
big detriment. We're taking down a big maple next spring, and it is surely
making me pay this year so I won't miss it. :-( ~ jan
-----------------

Also ponding troll free at:
http://groups.google.com/group/The-Freshwater-Aquarium