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catfish food for koi :-)
A few years ago there was a discussion here (I think it was here) about
feeding koi and large goldfish catfish food. I remember all kinds of dire warnings. We pay $10.99 for a 50 lb bag of catfish chow here in TN. If we buy koi food it runs around $35 for a small 10 lb bag. The koi are getting big and really pack the food away now. After 3 years I can attest to the fact that koi THRIVE on this food as do all the goldfish. I do buy a smaller pellets for the smaller fish. There's been no disease or parasites since we've started using this food, and also LymnoZyme a few times in early spring. Every single fish survived the winter. -- Carol....... "War does not determine who is right, war determines who is left." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~{@ |
catfish food for koi :-)
I was asking about catfish food a couple of years ago. It was suggested
that catfish food will add fat to the livers of koi as it is a growth not maintenance food. Our koi and goldfish are very inexpensive, as are our goldfish. I calculated that the savings on the first bag of catfish food would replace all my koi. So.....they eat catfish food. As you, we have koi that slurp (oops, suck) it up like mad. At this point they are thriving! They have gone from 3" to 18-24" and eat like yours. I appreciate those who feed Koi food. We are happy with catfish food. Jim -- ______________________________________________ See our pond at: home.bellsouth.net\p\pwp-jameshurley Check out Jog-A-Thon fundraiser (clears $140+ per child) at: jogathon.net ______________________________________________ "~ Windsong ~" wrote in message .. . A few years ago there was a discussion here (I think it was here) about feeding koi and large goldfish catfish food. I remember all kinds of dire warnings. We pay $10.99 for a 50 lb bag of catfish chow here in TN. If we buy koi food it runs around $35 for a small 10 lb bag. The koi are getting big and really pack the food away now. After 3 years I can attest to the fact that koi THRIVE on this food as do all the goldfish. I do buy a smaller pellets for the smaller fish. There's been no disease or parasites since we've started using this food, and also LymnoZyme a few times in early spring. Every single fish survived the winter. -- Carol....... "War does not determine who is right, war determines who is left." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~{@ |
catfish food for koi :-)
What is catfish food, and where does one buy catfish food?
Ingrid and Joann, what do you both think about this catfish food thing? -- _______________________________________ "The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is like an eggs-and-ham breakfast: The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'." http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino "Phyllis and Jim Hurley" wrote in message ... I was asking about catfish food a couple of years ago. It was suggested that catfish food will add fat to the livers of koi as it is a growth not maintenance food. Our koi and goldfish are very inexpensive, as are our goldfish. I calculated that the savings on the first bag of catfish food would replace all my koi. So.....they eat catfish food. As you, we have koi that slurp (oops, suck) it up like mad. At this point they are thriving! They have gone from 3" to 18-24" and eat like yours. I appreciate those who feed Koi food. We are happy with catfish food. Jim -- ______________________________________________ See our pond at: home.bellsouth.net\p\pwp-jameshurley Check out Jog-A-Thon fundraiser (clears $140+ per child) at: jogathon.net ______________________________________________ "~ Windsong ~" wrote in message .. . A few years ago there was a discussion here (I think it was here) about feeding koi and large goldfish catfish food. I remember all kinds of dire warnings. We pay $10.99 for a 50 lb bag of catfish chow here in TN. If we buy koi food it runs around $35 for a small 10 lb bag. The koi are getting big and really pack the food away now. After 3 years I can attest to the fact that koi THRIVE on this food as do all the goldfish. I do buy a smaller pellets for the smaller fish. There's been no disease or parasites since we've started using this food, and also LymnoZyme a few times in early spring. Every single fish survived the winter. -- Carol....... "War does not determine who is right, war determines who is left." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~{@ |
catfish food for koi :-)
~ Windsong ~ wrote:
A few years ago there was a discussion here (I think it was here) about feeding koi and large goldfish catfish food. I remember all kinds of dire warnings. We pay $10.99 for a 50 lb bag of catfish chow here in TN. If we buy koi food it runs around $35 for a small 10 lb bag. The koi are getting big and really pack the food away now. After 3 years I can attest to the fact that koi THRIVE on this food as do all the goldfish. I do buy a smaller pellets for the smaller fish. There's been no disease or parasites since we've started using this food, and also LymnoZyme a few times in early spring. Every single fish survived the winter. I believe the arguement was that the catfish food was not for long lived fish. Most catfish are raised as food fish, not pets and their lives are not as long as koi. -- Bonnie NJ http://home.earthlink.net/~maebe43/ |
catfish food for koi :-)
"Just Me \"Koi\"" wrote:
What is catfish food, and where does one buy catfish food? Food for farm raised catfish, so you would be looking for a feed store, in an area with fish farms. |
catfish food for koi :-)
Hi Bonnnie, That was my memory as well, with the remarks made that catfish food promotes fast growth of juveniles, koi grow to maturity and koi live longer. The issue of fat and liver was also raised as part of the reason the koi would die early. Jim I believe the arguement was that the catfish food was not for long lived fish. Most catfish are raised as food fish, not pets and their lives are not as long as koi. -- Bonnie NJ http://home.earthlink.net/~maebe43/ |
catfish food for koi :-)
In a fit of sanity: Phyllis and Jim Hurley picked up the keyboard and
pecked out: :: I was asking about catfish food a couple of years ago. It was :: suggested that catfish food will add fat to the livers of koi as :: it is a growth not maintenance food. ** And I believe those who make and sell koi food would like us all to purchase it from them - and not at a feed store for so much less. The difference in price is hard to believe. Someone's making a lot of money. My koi's livers must be fine because not only are they healthy with no deaths in several years but they bred this spring. :-) Our koi and goldfish are :: very inexpensive, as are our goldfish. I calculated that the :: savings on the first bag of catfish food would replace all my koi. :: So.....they eat catfish food. As you, we have koi that slurp :: (oops, suck) it up like mad. ** My koi are like vacuum cleaners..... anything edible that hits the water gets sucked in. At this point they are thriving! :: They have gone from 3" to 18-24" and eat like yours. I appreciate :: those who feed Koi food. We are happy with catfish food. ** What got me started with koi food was seeing a man down in town's koi and goldfish. They were huge, well filled out, no sickness, plenty of fry every year - and all they ever got was catfish food and whatever insects and bugs fell into the water. I asked what he was feeding them and he showed me the food and where to buy it.... I've been getting it there ever since. No need to pay $5 to $10 a lb for koi chow. -- Carol....... "War does not determine who is right, war determines who is left." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~{@ |
catfish food for koi :-)
In a fit of sanity: Just Me "Koi" picked up the keyboard and pecked
out: :: What is catfish food, and where does one buy catfish food? :: :: Ingrid and Joann, what do you both think about this catfish food :: thing? ========================= You can buy catfish food in almost any feed store. If they don't have it in stock they can order it for you. Ingrid and Joann are in the business of selling high priced koi food so probably have many reasons people shouldn't but catfish food. -- Carol....... "War does not determine who is right, war determines who is left." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~{@ |
catfish food for koi :-)
In a fit of sanity: John Hines picked up the keyboard and pecked out:
:: "Just Me \"Koi\"" wrote: :: ::: What is catfish food, and where does one buy catfish food? :: :: Food for farm raised catfish, so you would be looking for a feed :: store, in an area with fish farms. =================== There are no fish farms in our area. Many feed stores carry it because the pond owners are buying it. They're buying it because the koi and goldfish are thriving on it. :-) Carol....... "War does not determine who is right, war determines who is left." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~{@ |
catfish food for koi :-)
In a fit of sanity: Bonnie Espenshade picked up the keyboard and
pecked out: :: I believe the arguement was that the catfish food was not :: for long lived fish. Most catfish are raised as food fish, :: not pets and their lives are not as long as koi. ---------------------------- I can't say that's true either, because Simon's (sp?) fish were about 5 or 6 years old at the time and thriving on it. His goldfish were even older. Perhaps "overfeeding" is the problem where there were problems..... fat fish, like overweight people, probably suffer from obesity related health problems. -- Carol....... "War does not determine who is right, war determines who is left." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~{@ |
catfish food for koi :-)
"~ Windsong ~" wrote:
In a fit of sanity: John Hines picked up the keyboard and pecked out: :: "Just Me \"Koi\"" wrote: :: ::: What is catfish food, and where does one buy catfish food? :: :: Food for farm raised catfish, so you would be looking for a feed :: store, in an area with fish farms. =================== There are no fish farms in our area. Many feed stores carry it because the pond owners are buying it. They're buying it because the koi and goldfish are thriving on it. :-) At least you have feed stores, it isn't a problem to add a few bags of fish food, along with the other animals. Agriculture is history in my area, the last feed store in the area now sells lawn ornaments Duck food is the only thing I can get regularity. |
catfish food for koi :-)
With all due respect for Carol, whose signature is eminently sensible,
what's with the " picked up the keyboard and pecked out" a response??? Sorry, sorry, I just realized that it's Friday the 13th -- this may perhaps explain why I find the "somebody done somebody wrong" quoting appellations more interesting than the material actually quoted. I think I shall take a sabbatical from newsgroups until next month.... watch out, WordRacer, here I come! My apologies, Wind/Carol and the rest of you, Anne Lurie Raleigh, NC "~ Windsong ~" wrote in message ... In a fit of sanity: Phyllis and Jim Hurley picked up the keyboard and pecked out: :: I was asking about catfish food a couple of years ago. It was :: suggested that catfish food will add fat to the livers of koi as :: it is a growth not maintenance food. ** And I believe those who make and sell koi food would like us all to purchase it from them - and not at a feed store for so much less. The difference in price is hard to believe. Someone's making a lot of money. My koi's livers must be fine because not only are they healthy with no deaths in several years but they bred this spring. :-) Our koi and goldfish are :: very inexpensive, as are our goldfish. I calculated that the :: savings on the first bag of catfish food would replace all my koi. :: So.....they eat catfish food. As you, we have koi that slurp :: (oops, suck) it up like mad. ** My koi are like vacuum cleaners..... anything edible that hits the water gets sucked in. At this point they are thriving! :: They have gone from 3" to 18-24" and eat like yours. I appreciate :: those who feed Koi food. We are happy with catfish food. ** What got me started with koi food was seeing a man down in town's koi and goldfish. They were huge, well filled out, no sickness, plenty of fry every year - and all they ever got was catfish food and whatever insects and bugs fell into the water. I asked what he was feeding them and he showed me the food and where to buy it.... I've been getting it there ever since. No need to pay $5 to $10 a lb for koi chow. -- Carol....... "War does not determine who is right, war determines who is left." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~{@ |
catfish food for koi :-)
John,
Ask the people who get the duck food for you to see if they can get catfish food for you. Most place are pretty accommodating. You may pay a little bit more for a 50 lb bag, since you are getting only one, but it would probably worth asking. Tom L.L. "John Hines" wrote in message ... "~ Windsong ~" wrote: In a fit of sanity: John Hines picked up the keyboard and pecked out: :: "Just Me \"Koi\"" wrote: :: ::: What is catfish food, and where does one buy catfish food? :: :: Food for farm raised catfish, so you would be looking for a feed :: store, in an area with fish farms. =================== There are no fish farms in our area. Many feed stores carry it because the pond owners are buying it. They're buying it because the koi and goldfish are thriving on it. :-) At least you have feed stores, it isn't a problem to add a few bags of fish food, along with the other animals. Agriculture is history in my area, the last feed store in the area now sells lawn ornaments Duck food is the only thing I can get regularity. |
catfish food for koi :-)
Carol,
I was looking at catfish foods and it seems that they are now making a sinking pellet and it cost less than the floating at $10.76 for 51 LBS. Will have to ask at the feed store if they can get me the sinking pellets. Tom L.L. "~ Windsong ~" wrote in message ... In a fit of sanity: John Hines picked up the keyboard and pecked out: :: "Just Me \"Koi\"" wrote: :: ::: What is catfish food, and where does one buy catfish food? :: :: Food for farm raised catfish, so you would be looking for a feed :: store, in an area with fish farms. =================== There are no fish farms in our area. Many feed stores carry it because the pond owners are buying it. They're buying it because the koi and goldfish are thriving on it. :-) Carol....... "War does not determine who is right, war determines who is left." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~{@ |
catfish food for koi :-)
Carol,
I would not worry about your KOI's livers or those of your Goldfish because most of that fat that builds up around the heart and liver are created because of feeding of high protein foods all the time. Most of the catfish foods sold are 32% protein although there are some 36% feeds that are used to baby fish. If you continue to feed the 32% variety you will be fine. Tom L.L. "~ Windsong ~" wrote in message ... In a fit of sanity: Phyllis and Jim Hurley picked up the keyboard and pecked out: :: I was asking about catfish food a couple of years ago. It was :: suggested that catfish food will add fat to the livers of koi as :: it is a growth not maintenance food. ** And I believe those who make and sell koi food would like us all to purchase it from them - and not at a feed store for so much less. The difference in price is hard to believe. Someone's making a lot of money. My koi's livers must be fine because not only are they healthy with no deaths in several years but they bred this spring. :-) Our koi and goldfish are :: very inexpensive, as are our goldfish. I calculated that the :: savings on the first bag of catfish food would replace all my koi. :: So.....they eat catfish food. As you, we have koi that slurp :: (oops, suck) it up like mad. ** My koi are like vacuum cleaners..... anything edible that hits the water gets sucked in. At this point they are thriving! :: They have gone from 3" to 18-24" and eat like yours. I appreciate :: those who feed Koi food. We are happy with catfish food. ** What got me started with koi food was seeing a man down in town's koi and goldfish. They were huge, well filled out, no sickness, plenty of fry every year - and all they ever got was catfish food and whatever insects and bugs fell into the water. I asked what he was feeding them and he showed me the food and where to buy it.... I've been getting it there ever since. No need to pay $5 to $10 a lb for koi chow. -- Carol....... "War does not determine who is right, war determines who is left." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~{@ |
catfish food for koi :-)
Bonnie,
If you look at the break down of catfish feeds you will see the same additives as are in the expensive foods. Tom L.L. "Bonnie Espenshade" wrote in message ... ~ Windsong ~ wrote: A few years ago there was a discussion here (I think it was here) about feeding koi and large goldfish catfish food. I remember all kinds of dire warnings. We pay $10.99 for a 50 lb bag of catfish chow here in TN. If we buy koi food it runs around $35 for a small 10 lb bag. The koi are getting big and really pack the food away now. After 3 years I can attest to the fact that koi THRIVE on this food as do all the goldfish. I do buy a smaller pellets for the smaller fish. There's been no disease or parasites since we've started using this food, and also LymnoZyme a few times in early spring. Every single fish survived the winter. I believe the arguement was that the catfish food was not for long lived fish. Most catfish are raised as food fish, not pets and their lives are not as long as koi. -- Bonnie NJ http://home.earthlink.net/~maebe43/ |
catfish food for koi :-)
Hi Tom,
I kind of like seeing the fish come to eat. Sinking would definitely not double my pleasure, although the cheaper price would be nice. Let us know what you think. Jim -- ______________________________________________ See our pond at: home.bellsouth.net\p\pwp-jameshurley Check out Jog-A-Thon fundraiser (clears $140+ per child) at: jogathon.net ______________________________________________ "Tom La Bron" wrote in message ... Carol, I was looking at catfish foods and it seems that they are now making a sinking pellet and it cost less than the floating at $10.76 for 51 LBS. Will have to ask at the feed store if they can get me the sinking pellets. Tom L.L. "~ Windsong ~" wrote in message ... In a fit of sanity: John Hines picked up the keyboard and pecked out: :: "Just Me \"Koi\"" wrote: :: ::: What is catfish food, and where does one buy catfish food? :: :: Food for farm raised catfish, so you would be looking for a feed :: store, in an area with fish farms. =================== There are no fish farms in our area. Many feed stores carry it because the pond owners are buying it. They're buying it because the koi and goldfish are thriving on it. :-) Carol....... "War does not determine who is right, war determines who is left." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~{@ |
catfish food for koi :-)
You know, people who sell expensive, 'ideally formulated' food for our
European carp (Koi) are not going to be pleased with the tenor of this group. I wonder if there are studies that would formally compare the expensive to the cheap foods and would look at fish health longitudinally on both foods. I suspect that carp in european rivers were pretty flexible in their feeding habits and that it may have been hard for them to get the high protein diets we feed...don't know, just a guess. Jim -- ______________________________________________ See our pond at: home.bellsouth.net\p\pwp-jameshurley Check out Jog-A-Thon fundraiser (clears $140+ per child) at: jogathon.net ______________________________________________ "~ Windsong ~" wrote in message .. . A few years ago there was a discussion here (I think it was here) about feeding koi and large goldfish catfish food. I remember all kinds of dire warnings. We pay $10.99 for a 50 lb bag of catfish chow here in TN. If we buy koi food it runs around $35 for a small 10 lb bag. The koi are getting big and really pack the food away now. After 3 years I can attest to the fact that koi THRIVE on this food as do all the goldfish. I do buy a smaller pellets for the smaller fish. There's been no disease or parasites since we've started using this food, and also LymnoZyme a few times in early spring. Every single fish survived the winter. -- Carol....... "War does not determine who is right, war determines who is left." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~{@ |
catfish food for koi :-)
"Tom La Bron" wrote:
John, Ask the people who get the duck food for you to see if they can get catfish food for you. Most place are pretty accommodating. You may pay a little bit more for a 50 lb bag, since you are getting only one, but it would probably worth asking. It is a chain ware house thing, so no, they can't special order stuff. My pond is small, so I'm still using the half bag of Manzuri I got last fall at the water garden show. |
catfish food for koi :-)
In a fit of sanity: John Hines picked up the keyboard and pecked out:
:: :: Agriculture is history in my area, the last feed store in the area :: now sells lawn ornaments :: Duck food is the only thing I can get regularity. =============================== If they sell duck food they may be able to get catfish food for you. Have you done a search on the net? Even with shipping charges you'll save $$$ over the outrageous costs of koi food. -- Carol....... Ponds on the cheap ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~{@ |
catfish food for koi :-)
In a fit of sanity: Tom La Bron picked up the keyboard and pecked out:
:: Carol, :: :: I was looking at catfish foods and it seems that they are now :: making a sinking pellet and it cost less than the floating at :: $10.76 for 51 LBS. :: Will have to ask at the feed store if they can get me the sinking :: pellets. :: :: Tom L.L. ---------------------------- What I'm using floats and they all come up for it! I think I can judge better how much to feed when using floating pellets. -- *.·´¨¨)) ¸.·´ .·´¨¨))* *((¸¸.·´ ..·´ ((¸¸.·´* ~ * Carol * ~ * |
catfish food for koi :-)
In a fit of sanity: Anne Lurie picked up the keyboard and pecked out:
:: With all due respect for Carol, whose signature is eminently :: sensible, what's with the " picked up the keyboard and pecked out" :: a response??? ** That's set in my email enhancer. It can be changed or omitted altogether. :-) :: Sorry, sorry, I just realized that it's Friday the 13th -- this :: may perhaps explain why I find the "somebody done somebody wrong" :: quoting appellations more interesting than the material actually :: quoted. :: I think I shall take a sabbatical from newsgroups until next :: month.... watch out, WordRacer, here I come! :: :: My apologies, Wind/Carol and the rest of you, :: :: Anne Lurie :: Raleigh, NC -- *.·´¨¨)) ¸.·´ .·´¨¨))* *((¸¸.·´ ..·´ ((¸¸.·´* ~ * Carol * ~ * |
catfish food for koi :-)
In a fit of sanity: Tom La Bron picked up the keyboard and pecked out:
:: Carol, :: :: I would not worry about your KOI's livers or those of your :: Goldfish because most of that fat that builds up around the heart :: and liver are created because of feeding of high protein foods all :: the time. Most of the catfish foods sold are 32% protein although :: there are some 36% feeds that are used to baby fish. If you :: continue to feed the 32% variety you will be fine. ===================\ Thanks Tom! I'm not sure of the protein content because we put the feed in a large plastic type feed container, and the bag was tossed away. They get a little variety when they eat the smaller pellets tossed in for the goldfish. They also get fresh, juicy earthworms from the compost pile once in awhile. And sometimes the ends from the bread. I also feed them duckweed that grows in the kiddy pools out behind the house. -- Carol....... Ponding on the cheap......... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~{@ |
catfish food for koi :-)
In the last chapter: Phyllis and Jim Hurley picked up the keyboard
and pecked out: :: You know, people who sell expensive, 'ideally formulated' food for :: our European carp (Koi) are not going to be pleased with the tenor :: of this group. ** That may be. But this is NOT a commercial group for people pushing their products. I wonder if there are studies that would formally :: compare the expensive to the cheap foods and would look at fish :: health longitudinally on both foods. ** I personally know of no such study. After seeing that man's goldfish and older koi in such great condition I knew Catfish food was the way to go. Then I kept hearing about people buying it because, like myself, they felt ripped off paying $5, $10 and more a lb for the "koi" foods. I suspect that carp in :: european rivers were pretty flexible in their feeding habits and :: that it may have been hard for them to get the high protein diets :: we feed...don't know, just a guess. ** That *is* hard to know. I'm sure they fed on almost anything edible as our koi still do today. -- Carol....... Ponding on the cheap........ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~{@ |
catfish food for koi :-)
Anyone in Arizona know a feed supplier that carries Catfish food?
My guys are getting bigger and my wallet's getting thinner. :-( On Sat, 14 Jun 2003 17:36:26 -0500, "~ Windsong ~" wrote: In the last chapter: Phyllis and Jim Hurley picked up the keyboard and pecked out: :: You know, people who sell expensive, 'ideally formulated' food for :: our European carp (Koi) are not going to be pleased with the tenor :: of this group. ** That may be. But this is NOT a commercial group for people pushing their products. I wonder if there are studies that would formally :: compare the expensive to the cheap foods and would look at fish :: health longitudinally on both foods. ** I personally know of no such study. After seeing that man's goldfish and older koi in such great condition I knew Catfish food was the way to go. Then I kept hearing about people buying it because, like myself, they felt ripped off paying $5, $10 and more a lb for the "koi" foods. I suspect that carp in :: european rivers were pretty flexible in their feeding habits and :: that it may have been hard for them to get the high protein diets :: we feed...don't know, just a guess. ** That *is* hard to know. I'm sure they fed on almost anything edible as our koi still do today. |
catfish food for koi :-)
Jim,.
I was meaning getting the sinking for me. There are less problems with ornamental goldfish if they are feed sinking foods rather than floating foods. The problem was that catfish foods were usually floating which is why I never bought any, but now that they make a sinking variety I will talk to my feed store and see if they can get me some or get it off the internet. Tom L.L. "Phyllis and Jim Hurley" wrote in message .. . Hi Tom, I kind of like seeing the fish come to eat. Sinking would definitely not double my pleasure, although the cheaper price would be nice. Let us know what you think. Jim -- ______________________________________________ See our pond at: home.bellsouth.net\p\pwp-jameshurley Check out Jog-A-Thon fundraiser (clears $140+ per child) at: jogathon.net ______________________________________________ "Tom La Bron" wrote in message ... Carol, I was looking at catfish foods and it seems that they are now making a sinking pellet and it cost less than the floating at $10.76 for 51 LBS. Will have to ask at the feed store if they can get me the sinking pellets. Tom L.L. "~ Windsong ~" wrote in message ... In a fit of sanity: John Hines picked up the keyboard and pecked out: :: "Just Me \"Koi\"" wrote: :: ::: What is catfish food, and where does one buy catfish food? :: :: Food for farm raised catfish, so you would be looking for a feed :: store, in an area with fish farms. =================== There are no fish farms in our area. Many feed stores carry it because the pond owners are buying it. They're buying it because the koi and goldfish are thriving on it. :-) Carol....... "War does not determine who is right, war determines who is left." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~{@ |
catfish food for koi :-)
catfish farmers sell em per lb. catfish have a very short life span and the food is
designed to fatten them fast for market and so they taste right. Koi are pets. we are looking at our pets living more than a year or two. I have to trust that the Japanese know what they are doing about formulating food. I know people who breed show koi in the US, like Brett dont use cat food. My pets are worth a buck or even two bucks a year each for food. Ingrid "Just Me \"Koi\"" wrote: What is catfish food, and where does one buy catfish food? Ingrid and Joann, what do you both think about this catfish food thing? |
catfish food for koi :-)
I shared this with one of my friends who has always thought that I was crazy
given how much I spent on my Koi, and he had these two things to say:- 1. Why am I even thinking about buying catfish food, I wouldn't feed my pet dogs pig chow even though it costs a lot less would I? I quickly reminded him how coyotes are same as dogs and they eat anything....to which he came back.."Dogs have been domesticated for ages and have lost their natural defense against the germs in ......... 2. What is the cost of Koi food compared to the cost of the Koi? -- _______________________________________ "The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is like an eggs-and-ham breakfast: The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'." http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino wrote in message ... catfish farmers sell em per lb. catfish have a very short life span and the food is designed to fatten them fast for market and so they taste right. Koi are pets. we are looking at our pets living more than a year or two. I have to trust that the Japanese know what they are doing about formulating food. I know people who breed show koi in the US, like Brett dont use cat food. My pets are worth a buck or even two bucks a year each for food. Ingrid "Just Me \"Koi\"" wrote: What is catfish food, and where does one buy catfish food? Ingrid and Joann, what do you both think about this catfish food thing? |
catfish food for koi :-)
In the last chapter: Just Me "Koi" picked up the keyboard and pecked
out: :: I shared this with one of my friends who has always thought that I :: was crazy given how much I spent on my Koi, and he had these two :: things to say:- ## Some of us with a lot of good size fish find the exorbitant cost of special koi feeds prohibitive and wasteful. Since so many people are using the Catfish chow without any problems at all why not? :: 1. Why am I even thinking about buying catfish food, I wouldn't :: feed my pet dogs pig chow even though it costs a lot less would I? ## Pigs and dogs are totally different animals. Catfish and koi are BOTH fish and the koi and goldfish thrive on the cheaper food. :: I quickly reminded him how coyotes are same as dogs and they eat :: anything....to which he came back.."Dogs have been domesticated :: for ages and have lost their natural defense against the germs in ## This is total baloney! They only lose their immunity if they have some disease or are raised in a totally germ free environment. Those selling these outrageously expensive foods will always have a reason you should SPEND, SPEND, SPEND! What will keep a coyote or wolf healthy will work for our domestic dogs. In fact my dogs, aged 9 to 11 are thriving on the cheapo dog food from Wal-Mart and table scraps. Who told me about this cheapo dogfood? A woman raising coyote, dog, wolf crosses about 18 years ago. That's what she was feeding all her breeding stock. :: 2. What is the cost of Koi food compared to the cost of the Koi? ## Depends on what you pay for the koi and how much you pay for the food. I don't think most people have ponds full of $5,000 - $5,0000 koi. Even they would no doubt thrive along with their cheaper friends on the cheaper foods. Buy hey, if you can afford a couple of small $80+ bags of koi-chow over the summer go for it! :-) -- Carol....... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~{@ |
catfish food for koi :-)
In the last chapter: DesertPond picked up the keyboard and pecked out:
:: Anyone in Arizona know a feed supplier that carries Catfish food? :: My guys are getting bigger and my wallet's getting thinner. :-( =================== Check on the net or your Yellow Pages for any feed or farm equipment stores in your area - start calling around! The place that sells it closest to me is Tractor Supply. -- Carol....... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~{@ |
catfish food for koi :-)
I think it comes down to what do the experts feed their koi, their dogs. People like
Brett Rowley who breed koi use high quality feed like Rangen, and he has to minimize his costs to stay in business ..... he got more koi mouths to feed than all of us put together. And Brett knows more about breeding and raising healthy koi than all of us put together. I am on a dog list as well, and the same issue comes up about cheap bulk dog food vs better brands. And part of my decision to feed high quality koi food is because I can actually see the difference between high protein dog food and the cheap stuff that is mostly fillers. When my two big springers take a dump after eating cheap food the pile is enormous. With high protein food there isnt 1/2 the wastes. The difference was obvious when I switched from cheap GF food to high protein. My filters stopped getting fouled with undigested food. Bulk is in one end and out the other. I think it is pretty clear all over the world what happens when people eat high starch diets. The majority of them get huge ... but it is obesity, not "sleekly fat" Minimize the protein and they are runted, never attaining their growth potential. Limit protein to children and they never develop full brain potential and their immune system is compromised. Those little kids with big bellies are the result of a lack of protein, but plenty of starch in their diet. I dont have high dollar koi, but they are my pets.. and they are worth a buck a year each to feed them high quality food. Fish are good converters of food, I think it is something like for every 2 lbs of food they put on 1 lb of weight. So fish just dont need so MUCH food. And since I want to maintain the highest quality water I want to use food that isnt going to unnecessarily make it more difficult. Ingrid "Just Me \"Koi\"" wrote: 1. Why am I even thinking about buying catfish food, I wouldn't feed my pet dogs pig chow even though it costs a lot less would I? I quickly reminded him how coyotes are same as dogs and they eat anything....to which he came back.."Dogs have been domesticated for ages and have lost their natural defense against the germs in ......... 2. What is the cost of Koi food compared to the cost of the Koi? |
catfish food for koi :-)
This is an incorrect statement. I am not now, nor have ever been in the business of
selling high priced koi or any other kind of food. Jo Ann is a friend that I can recommend for certain products. Most of the time when I recommend Jo Ann it is for people with sick fish to call her for help, which is free. I recommend AES or "that pet place" 95% of the time for fish related products. I pay for the food I buy from Jo Ann and I have the credit card slips to prove it. I have no financial arrangement of any kind with Jo Ann, I get no money or goods as the result of my recommendations from Jo Ann, from AES or from "that pet place". I, my list, my website do not get a SINGLE PENNY from any seller of any product at all. Ingrid "~ Windsong ~" wrote: Ingrid and Joann are in the business of selling high priced koi food ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
catfish food for koi :-)
Jo Ann and Steve got 77 koi in their big pond. they range from 5-20 lbs each
Steve gives them 2 pints of food per night (which weighs 16 oz), combination of Ogata and Rangen. the RETAIL cost of feeding their monsters is: 6.5 cents per day per koi 45 cents per week per koi 23.63 bucks per year per koi cause they feed 365 days a year down there in Ala and they heat their ponds. The koi are monsters and are growing. their 5 lb fish are around 18-22", so it averages out maybe to around 0.25 lbs per inch for those big fish. a quick and dirty estimate of the average is they got 940 lbs of koi and feed 16 oz of food per day. I am not sure how many koi I got. Lets say 25 koi from 6-14", I know they arent 0.25 lbs per inch, but lets say my 25 fish weigh in at 40 lbs. I should be feeding 1/24th as much food as they do, or 2/3 of an ounce per day. Well, I think I feed more than that cause I been feeding a less than 1/2 cup or around 1.2 oz of food per day. Last year I bought 5 lbs of Rangen ($4/lb) $20.00 5 lbs of Ogata (5.50/lb) 27.50 5lbs of romet B ($4) 20.00 -------------------------------------------- 67.50 I had Ogata left this spring been using it and will run out this week. I have romet B left and I gave away at least half to people with sick fish. I started feeding around April 15 when the water is above 55oF. I quit feeding around Oct 8th. I didnt keep records on first and last feeding. But this was around 25 weeks I fed the koi. Lets say 24 weeks cause I forget to feed them every day. So 24 weeks X 7 days X 1.2 ounces per day = 201 ounces per year or 12.6 lbs. If I feed them according to Steve's rate, I should feed 110 ounces per year or 6.9 lbs of food. However, I feed 25 koi 12.6 lbs of food per year, average price is $5/lb or so comes out to $2.50 per koi. Feeding at Steve's rate 6.9 lbs x $5 = 34.50 or $1.38 per koi per year. It doesnt add up right, I have more food left over so I may have missed more feedings than I thought or not feed 1/2 cup. I dunno. Yeah, that comes out to about 1/2 lb per year per fish. High quality koi food is around $5 per lb. High quality koi food has more digestible nutrition per ounce so I dont have to feed as much and there is less waste coming out the other end to foul my water and foul my filters. Anybody wanna feed catfish food to save a few bucks no skin off my nose. I will feed my fish what Brett feeds his. Ingrid John Rutz wrote: -- a buck or two ayear for food ? so that means you feed them what 1/2 ounce of food a year since most Koi feed is 25 or so $ a lb??????? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
catfish food for koi :-)
|
catfish food for koi :-)
In the last chapter: John Rutz picked up the keyboard and pecked out:
wrote: My pets are worth a buck or even two bucks a year each for ::: food. Ingrid ) ~~~~~~~~~~ :: -- a buck or two ayear for food ? so that means you feed them :: what 1/2 :: ounce of food a year since most Koi feed is 25 or so $ a lb??????? ~~~~~~~~~~~~ I was also wondering about her "buck a year" comment. One of the cheapest koi foods I can find in my area of middle TN is made by Misty Mountain and costs $32.99 for a 10 lb bag. That bag is gone in about a month. We feed here from early April until sometime in November. That can run us around $260 bucks a year, give or take a few dollars. Uh, no thanks. :-) I buy one of these overpriced bags a year for the young goldfish and smaller koi that can't manage the catfish chow. As soon as they're mouths are large enough guess which feed they go for???? Yes,... the catfish food!!!! -- Carol....... The thrifty ponder........ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~{@ |
catfish food for koi :-)
Ingrid, I hope you are sitting down, as this time you and I agree on a
topic! (I mean that in a positive way, not negative, just to clarify). Food quality does matter! Yes, any animal can survive, eating almost any non harmful foodstuff, regardless of its nutritional value. The animals will grow, mature and eventually die, just as others eating a different more balanced foodstuff. Size though can be deceiving. Just look what is happening in this country with obesity. It is a national epidemic. Medical studies have shown its not just lack of activity (esp. in children/young adults), nor is it just the amount of food consumed (total daily caloric intake) but it is related to the quality of our food. Fats in the diet don't lead to obesity anywhere near as much as some of the carbohydrates do! In mammals, fats are utilized primarily for energy. If there are not fatty calories available, then stored carbohydrates are utilized. Excess carbohydrates are stored as fat, once glycogen storage is maxed out. As most USA diets have excess calories, the excess is stored as adipose tissue (fat) for later use by the body when there is inadequate caloric intake to meet energy needs (which rarely occurs in the average US diets hence the obesity). Yes kids grow into adults, and they are big and seemingly healthy (like our fish), yet many are getting early cancers, heart disease, many have more and more immune related issues like asthma, chronic sinusitis, etc, etc, which we (the medical profession) finally have realized has a major dietary component to it, in addition to genetics. So how does this relate to fish? I am not an expert of fish food. I do know the percentages of components that should be in a good quality diet; the difference between the sources of lipids (fats), (with fish oil being preferred); the differences between digestibility of various heat stabilized vit C products; as well as understanding the facts behind the hype about color enhancement and immune stabilizing additions; etc, etc., but I am not a breeder/commercial grower, and have not had the experience some in this NG have. That being said, I have read quite a few articles on feeds available, and growth studies etc. None of them however, at least any of the ones I have seen, address long term health/longevity. At a wet lab Dr. Johnson stated, (and I think he probably has written this somewhere I am quite sure), that when evaluating the causes of "swollen belly" in Koi (vs. dropsy which has a whole different set of causes, and you usually call immediately tell the 2 apart as in dropsy the scales stand out away from the body) the most frequent cause of "swollen belly" he has seen is fatty liver, due to poor diet, specifically "due to feeding of catfish food to Koi". That is his quote and his opinion, based on his aquatic vet. practice for the last 12 years, not mine. It makes sense though, although granted it is anecdotal. BTW, The other causes of "swollen belly" are fecal/roe impaction, cystic kidney, tumor, abscess, etc. I'm not saying you need to buy $20 per pound fish food!! I am saying I would rather buy a few higher quality feeds, mix them for a varied diet (along with household veggies, etc), and feed less in total calories, than to feed more calories of a lesser quality food that has proteins, etc that may not be as efficiently utilized, which results in fatty deposition in the liver and in the belly. Size and speed/amount of growth are not necessarily synonymous with health and longevity. All that being said, I think are plenty of high quality foods available, with prices that vary. I would not recommend any one brand, as I have never seen a head to head comparison of foods reviewing their impact on the above factors (health (immunity issues), and longevity) Happy ponding, Greg "~ Windsong ~" wrote in message ... In the last chapter: DesertPond picked up the keyboard and pecked out: :: Anyone in Arizona know a feed supplier that carries Catfish food? :: My guys are getting bigger and my wallet's getting thinner. :-( =================== Check on the net or your Yellow Pages for any feed or farm equipment stores in your area - start calling around! The place that sells it closest to me is Tractor Supply. -- Carol....... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~{@ |
catfish food for koi :-)
Ditto, I'm with Ingrid & Greg and don't have anything more to add to the
discussion except, did you happen to see the Mallard Filmore Cartoon? **Goldfish in a bowl saying: "Apparently, America has an "overweight-pet" problem.... It doesn't affect me.... I'm on the "eat too much and they find you floating upside-down.... and flush you down the toilet" diet. ** That's a keeper for the frig, along with the summer of Zits cartoons when the 2 teen males decided they could make money digging koi ponds, course they had to first find out what a koi was, and why it needed a pond. :o) ~ jan On Tue, 17 Jun 2003 02:48:58 GMT, "Gregory Young" wrote: Ingrid, I hope you are sitting down, as this time you and I agree on a topic! (I mean that in a positive way, not negative, just to clarify). Food quality does matter! Yes, any animal can survive, eating almost any non harmful foodstuff, regardless of its nutritional value. The animals will grow, mature and eventually die, just as others eating a different more balanced foodstuff. Size though can be deceiving. Just look what is happening in this country with obesity. It is a national epidemic. Medical studies have shown its not just lack of activity (esp. in children/young adults), nor is it just the amount of food consumed (total daily caloric intake) but it is related to the quality of our food. Fats in the diet don't lead to obesity anywhere near as much as some of the carbohydrates do! In mammals, fats are utilized primarily for energy. If there are not fatty calories available, then stored carbohydrates are utilized. Excess carbohydrates are stored as fat, once glycogen storage is maxed out. As most USA diets have excess calories, the excess is stored as adipose tissue (fat) for later use by the body when there is inadequate caloric intake to meet energy needs (which rarely occurs in the average US diets hence the obesity). Yes kids grow into adults, and they are big and seemingly healthy (like our fish), yet many are getting early cancers, heart disease, many have more and more immune related issues like asthma, chronic sinusitis, etc, etc, which we (the medical profession) finally have realized has a major dietary component to it, in addition to genetics. So how does this relate to fish? I am not an expert of fish food. I do know the percentages of components that should be in a good quality diet; the difference between the sources of lipids (fats), (with fish oil being preferred); the differences between digestibility of various heat stabilized vit C products; as well as understanding the facts behind the hype about color enhancement and immune stabilizing additions; etc, etc., but I am not a breeder/commercial grower, and have not had the experience some in this NG have. That being said, I have read quite a few articles on feeds available, and growth studies etc. None of them however, at least any of the ones I have seen, address long term health/longevity. At a wet lab Dr. Johnson stated, (and I think he probably has written this somewhere I am quite sure), that when evaluating the causes of "swollen belly" in Koi (vs. dropsy which has a whole different set of causes, and you usually call immediately tell the 2 apart as in dropsy the scales stand out away from the body) the most frequent cause of "swollen belly" he has seen is fatty liver, due to poor diet, specifically "due to feeding of catfish food to Koi". That is his quote and his opinion, based on his aquatic vet. practice for the last 12 years, not mine. It makes sense though, although granted it is anecdotal. BTW, The other causes of "swollen belly" are fecal/roe impaction, cystic kidney, tumor, abscess, etc. I'm not saying you need to buy $20 per pound fish food!! I am saying I would rather buy a few higher quality feeds, mix them for a varied diet (along with household veggies, etc), and feed less in total calories, than to feed more calories of a lesser quality food that has proteins, etc that may not be as efficiently utilized, which results in fatty deposition in the liver and in the belly. Size and speed/amount of growth are not necessarily synonymous with health and longevity. All that being said, I think are plenty of high quality foods available, with prices that vary. I would not recommend any one brand, as I have never seen a head to head comparison of foods reviewing their impact on the above factors (health (immunity issues), and longevity) Happy ponding, Greg "~ Windsong ~" wrote in message ... In the last chapter: DesertPond picked up the keyboard and pecked out: :: Anyone in Arizona know a feed supplier that carries Catfish food? :: My guys are getting bigger and my wallet's getting thinner. :-( =================== Check on the net or your Yellow Pages for any feed or farm equipment stores in your area - start calling around! The place that sells it closest to me is Tractor Supply. -- Carol....... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~{@ See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website |
catfish food for koi :-)
Well said Greg!
-- _______________________________________ "The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is like an eggs-and-ham breakfast: The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'." http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino "Gregory Young" wrote in message et... Ingrid, I hope you are sitting down, as this time you and I agree on a topic! (I mean that in a positive way, not negative, just to clarify). Food quality does matter! Yes, any animal can survive, eating almost any non harmful foodstuff, regardless of its nutritional value. The animals will grow, mature and eventually die, just as others eating a different more balanced foodstuff. Size though can be deceiving. Just look what is happening in this country with obesity. It is a national epidemic. Medical studies have shown its not just lack of activity (esp. in children/young adults), nor is it just the amount of food consumed (total daily caloric intake) but it is related to the quality of our food. Fats in the diet don't lead to obesity anywhere near as much as some of the carbohydrates do! In mammals, fats are utilized primarily for energy. If there are not fatty calories available, then stored carbohydrates are utilized. Excess carbohydrates are stored as fat, once glycogen storage is maxed out. As most USA diets have excess calories, the excess is stored as adipose tissue (fat) for later use by the body when there is inadequate caloric intake to meet energy needs (which rarely occurs in the average US diets hence the obesity). Yes kids grow into adults, and they are big and seemingly healthy (like our fish), yet many are getting early cancers, heart disease, many have more and more immune related issues like asthma, chronic sinusitis, etc, etc, which we (the medical profession) finally have realized has a major dietary component to it, in addition to genetics. So how does this relate to fish? I am not an expert of fish food. I do know the percentages of components that should be in a good quality diet; the difference between the sources of lipids (fats), (with fish oil being preferred); the differences between digestibility of various heat stabilized vit C products; as well as understanding the facts behind the hype about color enhancement and immune stabilizing additions; etc, etc., but I am not a breeder/commercial grower, and have not had the experience some in this NG have. That being said, I have read quite a few articles on feeds available, and growth studies etc. None of them however, at least any of the ones I have seen, address long term health/longevity. At a wet lab Dr. Johnson stated, (and I think he probably has written this somewhere I am quite sure), that when evaluating the causes of "swollen belly" in Koi (vs. dropsy which has a whole different set of causes, and you usually call immediately tell the 2 apart as in dropsy the scales stand out away from the body) the most frequent cause of "swollen belly" he has seen is fatty liver, due to poor diet, specifically "due to feeding of catfish food to Koi". That is his quote and his opinion, based on his aquatic vet. practice for the last 12 years, not mine. It makes sense though, although granted it is anecdotal. BTW, The other causes of "swollen belly" are fecal/roe impaction, cystic kidney, tumor, abscess, etc. I'm not saying you need to buy $20 per pound fish food!! I am saying I would rather buy a few higher quality feeds, mix them for a varied diet (along with household veggies, etc), and feed less in total calories, than to feed more calories of a lesser quality food that has proteins, etc that may not be as efficiently utilized, which results in fatty deposition in the liver and in the belly. Size and speed/amount of growth are not necessarily synonymous with health and longevity. All that being said, I think are plenty of high quality foods available, with prices that vary. I would not recommend any one brand, as I have never seen a head to head comparison of foods reviewing their impact on the above factors (health (immunity issues), and longevity) Happy ponding, Greg "~ Windsong ~" wrote in message ... In the last chapter: DesertPond picked up the keyboard and pecked out: :: Anyone in Arizona know a feed supplier that carries Catfish food? :: My guys are getting bigger and my wallet's getting thinner. :-( =================== Check on the net or your Yellow Pages for any feed or farm equipment stores in your area - start calling around! The place that sells it closest to me is Tractor Supply. -- Carol....... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~{@ |
catfish food for koi :-)
~ Windsong ~ wrote: In the last chapter: John Rutz picked up the keyboard and pecked out: wrote: My pets are worth a buck or even two bucks a year each for ::: food. Ingrid ) ~~~~~~~~~~ :: -- a buck or two ayear for food ? so that means you feed them :: what 1/2 :: ounce of food a year since most Koi feed is 25 or so $ a lb??????? ~~~~~~~~~~~~ I was also wondering about her "buck a year" comment. One of the cheapest koi foods I can find in my area of middle TN is made by Misty Mountain and costs $32.99 for a 10 lb bag. That bag is gone in about a month. We feed here from early April until sometime in November. That can run us around $260 bucks a year, give or take a few dollars. Uh, no thanks. :-) I buy one of these overpriced bags a year for the young goldfish and smaller koi that can't manage the catfish chow. As soon as they're mouths are large enough guess which feed they go for???? Yes,... the catfish food!!!! -- My pond pigs wipe out a 20 lb bag every month I would try the catfish food but its not available here, did try trout food as someone in the warehouse shipped the wrong bag but it went rancid as it was hi in fish oils ( did make good garden fertilizer tho ) John Rutz Z5 New Mexico good judgement comes from bad experience, and that comes from bad judgement see my pond at: http://www.fuerjefe.com |
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