In the absence of rec.waterfalls I thought you guys might be able
to help me and my apologies for not wanting a pond ..... well that's
not entirely true, I would like a pond but there are a number of
obstacles in the way to getting one:

The number 1 obstacle is my hubby who will not let me have one. He
thinks I'm the dumbest wife, wanting even just a waterfall beneath a
black walnut tree with another tree close by (our only available
site).... maybe I am dumb, but he's agreed to the waterfall so long as
I do the clean up. I have suggested a net under both trees in order to
get approval for the pond, but apparently I was pushing it However
even with a net, the number 2 obstacles are two large, water-loving
dogs who would simply use it as a large drinking bowl and for paddling
in (putting them - or the husband - up for adoption is not a viable
alternative).

So ...... I have a small corner of the yard where the earth is built
up and I'd like to have a waterfall that is about 3-4 ft high. The
water will flow down for approximately 8 feet and disappear under a
bridge that will be covering a 'holding tank' (I'm not sure what else
to call it, but it's in place of a pond). The intent is then to have a
dry river bed of rocks to imitate a stream coming out from the other
side of the bridge. This will go along with the theme we have running
in the yard - a sort of japanesey feel to it. My husband had a notion
that he liked bamboo and bought one plant. Two years on, we now have
it everywhere .... tall, short, thick, thin, rare, common, running,
clumping, yellow, black, striped - and all expensive and labor
intensive to put in. But I digress .........

My first question is about the holding tank - does anyone have an idea
(assuming my conveyance of the overall picture is sufficient) how big
this tub should be? I was thinking of sinking a tub liner for a half
barrel that you can buy at Home Depot (no idea how many gallons they
hold), but will this be big enough? Alternatively, I realize I could
just dig a hole and put pond liner in, but again ... how big a hole
should I dig?

Second question: is 20 mil pvc liner okay, or should I go for the epdm
liner to line the water fall?

Third question: I've been looking at pumps and have figured that I
don't need anything too powerful, however I'm not quite clear on the
pipe - should it be 1/2", 3/4", more? Or is this governed by the pump?

Thanks for any suggestions - valuable or otherwise - that you may
have.
Jane

p.s. Work starts tomorrow morning after my husband has slept late, had
two coffees, breakfast and messed about on his computer for several
hours ....... oh, and after we have visited the place where we're
going to buy rocks - evidently my penchant for wild colors is not to
be trusted when choosing rocks.

A couple of other suggestions for your holding tank, a plastic "sump" which
should be in the plumbing section; or a rubbermaid stock tank which might be
too close to a pond to meet all of your requirements. If your bridge does
not cover the sump you will need a cover adequate to support the dogs and
any small childern which may be in the area. It will take a certain amount
of water to fill the system, piping, waterfall and stream. If you plan on
running the waterfall intermittantly you will need a sump big enough to
contain this water and still have enough to cover your pump intake. If you
are going to run it continuously, you will still have to have enough extra
to compensate for evaporation and spillage from the waterfall.

When shopping for a pump consider the head, or amount of water pumped at a
given height as well as the amount of electricity consumed. In planning the
placement of the pump consider the ease of access to any screens of filters
which may require maintenance.



"Jane Cooper" wrote in message
om...
In the absence of rec.waterfalls I thought you guys might be able
to help me and my apologies for not wanting a pond ..... well that's
not entirely true, I would like a pond but there are a number of
obstacles in the way to getting one:

The number 1 obstacle is my hubby who will not let me have one. He
thinks I'm the dumbest wife, wanting even just a waterfall beneath a
black walnut tree with another tree close by (our only available
site).... maybe I am dumb, but he's agreed to the waterfall so long as
I do the clean up. I have suggested a net under both trees in order to
get approval for the pond, but apparently I was pushing it However
even with a net, the number 2 obstacles are two large, water-loving
dogs who would simply use it as a large drinking bowl and for paddling
in (putting them - or the husband - up for adoption is not a viable
alternative).

So ...... I have a small corner of the yard where the earth is built
up and I'd like to have a waterfall that is about 3-4 ft high. The
water will flow down for approximately 8 feet and disappear under a
bridge that will be covering a 'holding tank' (I'm not sure what else
to call it, but it's in place of a pond). The intent is then to have a
dry river bed of rocks to imitate a stream coming out from the other
side of the bridge. This will go along with the theme we have running
in the yard - a sort of japanesey feel to it. My husband had a notion
that he liked bamboo and bought one plant. Two years on, we now have
it everywhere .... tall, short, thick, thin, rare, common, running,
clumping, yellow, black, striped - and all expensive and labor
intensive to put in. But I digress .........

My first question is about the holding tank - does anyone have an idea
(assuming my conveyance of the overall picture is sufficient) how big
this tub should be? I was thinking of sinking a tub liner for a half
barrel that you can buy at Home Depot (no idea how many gallons they
hold), but will this be big enough? Alternatively, I realize I could
just dig a hole and put pond liner in, but again ... how big a hole
should I dig?

Second question: is 20 mil pvc liner okay, or should I go for the epdm
liner to line the water fall?

Third question: I've been looking at pumps and have figured that I
don't need anything too powerful, however I'm not quite clear on the
pipe - should it be 1/2", 3/4", more? Or is this governed by the pump?

Thanks for any suggestions - valuable or otherwise - that you may
have.
Jane

p.s. Work starts tomorrow morning after my husband has slept late, had
two coffees, breakfast and messed about on his computer for several
hours ....... oh, and after we have visited the place where we're
going to buy rocks - evidently my penchant for wild colors is not to
be trusted when choosing rocks.

Most of the barrel liners are only 30 gallons or so, much too small for what
you want to do. I think I'd look for a stock tank, maybe 100 gals. or so for
the water resevoir. I saw something like this on HGTV a few weeks ago: they
had the falls, then a small pool of water, which looked like it went under
the sidewalk . . . it was very nice. 100 gallons would allow enough water
for your dogs to have a fresh supply at all times, without you having to
refill the "bowl" too often G.

3-4' tall is pretty tall: get a start on the "hill" by digging the hole your
resevoir will be going into. Pack it down pretty tight. If you're not going
to be grinding the rocks into position or walking on them, you should be
able to get away with the thinner liner. Make sure that it's long enough to
overlap well into the resevoir, so there's no back flow/leakage. You will
probably need to secure the rocks to the liner with something called Great
Stuff, which is expandable foam insulation that you can find at Home Depot,
Lowes, etc. It will also help to direct the water OVER the stones instead of
under them, which is pretty much what water wants to do (path of least
resistence). Make sure you wear gloves! The stuff is nearly impossible to
get off your skin or clothes. When it dries, anything that is exposed can be
painted. Or take small pebbles and push them into the foam while its still
wet. If you're using a long, flat rock for the water to splash over, make
SURE that it's level "left to right" and tips just slightly forward. That
will make sure that the water falls evenly over the side and sheers over the
edge.

Within reason, the larger the tubing, the higher your water flow. In order
to get the head pressure you'll need, I think a pump of about 600 gph would
be OK, with tubing of about 1" in diameter.

Make sure your liner is wide enough to contain water from any splash, or
you'll be refilling it more often than you really want to. You may also wish
to pile your stones where you want them, and run the garden hose over the
rocks, simulating where the water line will be, to see how the water flows
and make any adjustments to the water pattern before you foam the rocks in
place. It's not that you can't move them later, it's just messy. Adjust the
flow: maybe you would prefer a trickle over a gush . . . then buy your pump
accordingly.

Most important: make sure you have a GFCI electrical outlet available for
the pump. You may also wish to consider a 12 volt light to wash over your
waterfall and add a little "mood" to the corner. Because it will be in the
shade, I'd use Hostas and Impatiens and other shade-loving plants around it.

This will *probably* take more than a weekend, but have fun! Ask more
questions as you get them.

Lee



"Jane Cooper" wrote in message
om...
In the absence of rec.waterfalls I thought you guys might be able
to help me and my apologies for not wanting a pond ..... well that's
not entirely true, I would like a pond but there are a number of
obstacles in the way to getting one:

The number 1 obstacle is my hubby who will not let me have one. He
thinks I'm the dumbest wife, wanting even just a waterfall beneath a
black walnut tree with another tree close by (our only available
site).... maybe I am dumb, but he's agreed to the waterfall so long as
I do the clean up. I have suggested a net under both trees in order to
get approval for the pond, but apparently I was pushing it However
even with a net, the number 2 obstacles are two large, water-loving
dogs who would simply use it as a large drinking bowl and for paddling
in (putting them - or the husband - up for adoption is not a viable
alternative).

So ...... I have a small corner of the yard where the earth is built
up and I'd like to have a waterfall that is about 3-4 ft high. The
water will flow down for approximately 8 feet and disappear under a
bridge that will be covering a 'holding tank' (I'm not sure what else
to call it, but it's in place of a pond). The intent is then to have a
dry river bed of rocks to imitate a stream coming out from the other
side of the bridge. This will go along with the theme we have running
in the yard - a sort of japanesey feel to it. My husband had a notion
that he liked bamboo and bought one plant. Two years on, we now have
it everywhere .... tall, short, thick, thin, rare, common, running,
clumping, yellow, black, striped - and all expensive and labor
intensive to put in. But I digress .........

My first question is about the holding tank - does anyone have an idea
(assuming my conveyance of the overall picture is sufficient) how big
this tub should be? I was thinking of sinking a tub liner for a half
barrel that you can buy at Home Depot (no idea how many gallons they
hold), but will this be big enough? Alternatively, I realize I could
just dig a hole and put pond liner in, but again ... how big a hole
should I dig?

Second question: is 20 mil pvc liner okay, or should I go for the epdm
liner to line the water fall?

Third question: I've been looking at pumps and have figured that I
don't need anything too powerful, however I'm not quite clear on the
pipe - should it be 1/2", 3/4", more? Or is this governed by the pump?

Thanks for any suggestions - valuable or otherwise - that you may
have.
Jane

p.s. Work starts tomorrow morning after my husband has slept late, had
two coffees, breakfast and messed about on his computer for several
hours ....... oh, and after we have visited the place where we're
going to buy rocks - evidently my penchant for wild colors is not to
be trusted when choosing rocks.

Paul Irwin wrote:
A couple of other suggestions for your holding tank, a plastic "sump" which
should be in the plumbing section; or a rubbermaid stock tank which might be
too close to a pond to meet all of your requirements. If your bridge does
not cover the sump you will need a cover adequate to support the dogs and
any small childern which may be in the area. It will take a certain amount
of water to fill the system, piping, waterfall and stream. If you plan on
running the waterfall intermittantly you will need a sump big enough to
contain this water and still have enough to cover your pump intake. If you
are going to run it continuously, you will still have to have enough extra
to compensate for evaporation and spillage from the waterfall.

When shopping for a pump consider the head, or amount of water pumped at a
given height as well as the amount of electricity consumed. In planning the
placement of the pump consider the ease of access to any screens of filters
which may require maintenance.


another thought I have seen some built like you describe using a heavy expanded metal
cover on the tub and hiding that under river rock or other nice looking
rocks it will hold an adult if he blunders onto it



John Rutz
Z5 New Mexico

good judgement comes from bad experience, and that comes from bad
judgement

see my pond at:

http://www.fuerjefe.com

Hey Jane,

Lee Brouillet had some good suggestions so I will just try to add a little
to what he has already said.

The first thing I would do is some more research!!! I am the worlds worst
about jumping in with both feet before I know how deep the water is. So with
that said I can tell you, you need to do some serious planning before you
start. If you don't you will regret it later. I like your idea for a
waterfall only project, it would be great for people that dont have the time
for the pond maintenance.

Ortho has a book named "All About Building Waterfalls, Pools, and Streams"
( I have it in front of me now ). By looking at other waterfalls/streams you
would probably get some good ideas of what to do and what not to do. The
list price is 11.95. And IMHO its worth it. Its also full of tips on how to
make everything right the first time.

Tip from the book listed above: A normal 3/4" garden hose (with a pressure
of 40 to 60 pounds per square inch) will replicate a pump of 800 to 900 gph.
It also recommends a flow rate of 150 gph for each inch that you waterfall
will be wide. This is for a 1/2 inch thick sheet of water - you might find
that 50 gph would do for your stream. Its all up to you. I think my
waterfall has more like 100 gph of flow per inch and it looks good to me. It
will really depend on how you build it.

So after you build your stream do the above test and then you have a general
idea of how big of a pump you need. Try to find the pump that uses the least
amount of watts. Even if you have to pay 50 or 60 dollars more for it, it
will save you money in the long run with a lower electric bill.

And a note on when you are picking out your rock.... go for the flat smooth
rocks. They will look the best with a minimal flow.

Holding tank: I would defiantly go for a big holding tank. You might find a
big enough rubbermaid container at walmart.....I have heard of people using
300gal rubermaid containers but I dont know where they got them from. But
the size you really need will depend on how wide and how long your stream
will be. As for the tubing/pipe if your stream is not more than 10' long I
would just use the flexible tubing from Lowes or Home Depot. And you need to
know what size your pump outlet will be before you get the tubing.

I am not trying to discourage you from doing your project ( I hope you don't
think I am trying). I am just trying to help you avoid some of the big
mistakes I made the first couple of times around.

Be sure to take pictures along the way and post links so we can see the
progress.

P.S. I f you do use "Great Stuff" be SURE TO WEAR GLOVES!!!!! Try to find
some that cover your forearms also. I had gloves on and some how or other
managed to get some in my arm hair/skin. That was lots of fun!!!!

My understanding is that a lot (if not all) types of bamboo will puncture
liners - can you keep the bamboo away from where this is going to be put in?

Gale :~)


.. My husband had a notion
that he liked bamboo and bought one plant. Two years on, we now have
it everywhere .... tall, short, thick, thin, rare, common, running,
clumping, yellow, black, striped - and all expensive and labor
intensive to put in. But I digress .........

I think the two of you need to go on the Dr. Phil Show with all of these
waterfall/pond issues---I can hear him now--"Son, I think this woman needs a
waterfall to keep her happy--and we all know, if Mama's not happy, nobody's
happy--"

"Jane Cooper" wrote in message
om...
In the absence of rec.waterfalls I thought you guys might be able
to help me and my apologies for not wanting a pond ..... well that's
not entirely true, I would like a pond but there are a number of
obstacles in the way to getting one:

The number 1 obstacle is my hubby who will not let me have one. He
thinks I'm the dumbest wife, wanting even just a waterfall beneath a
black walnut tree with another tree close by (our only available
site).... maybe I am dumb, but he's agreed to the waterfall so long as
I do the clean up. I have suggested a net under both trees in order to
get approval for the pond, but apparently I was pushing it However
even with a net, the number 2 obstacles are two large, water-loving
dogs who would simply use it as a large drinking bowl and for paddling
in (putting them - or the husband - up for adoption is not a viable
alternative).

So ...... I have a small corner of the yard where the earth is built
up and I'd like to have a waterfall that is about 3-4 ft high. The
water will flow down for approximately 8 feet and disappear under a
bridge that will be covering a 'holding tank' (I'm not sure what else
to call it, but it's in place of a pond). The intent is then to have a
dry river bed of rocks to imitate a stream coming out from the other
side of the bridge. This will go along with the theme we have running
in the yard - a sort of japanesey feel to it. My husband had a notion
that he liked bamboo and bought one plant. Two years on, we now have
it everywhere .... tall, short, thick, thin, rare, common, running,
clumping, yellow, black, striped - and all expensive and labor
intensive to put in. But I digress .........

My first question is about the holding tank - does anyone have an idea
(assuming my conveyance of the overall picture is sufficient) how big
this tub should be? I was thinking of sinking a tub liner for a half
barrel that you can buy at Home Depot (no idea how many gallons they
hold), but will this be big enough? Alternatively, I realize I could
just dig a hole and put pond liner in, but again ... how big a hole
should I dig?

Second question: is 20 mil pvc liner okay, or should I go for the epdm
liner to line the water fall?

Third question: I've been looking at pumps and have figured that I
don't need anything too powerful, however I'm not quite clear on the
pipe - should it be 1/2", 3/4", more? Or is this governed by the pump?

Thanks for any suggestions - valuable or otherwise - that you may
have.
Jane

p.s. Work starts tomorrow morning after my husband has slept late, had
two coffees, breakfast and messed about on his computer for several
hours ....... oh, and after we have visited the place where we're
going to buy rocks - evidently my penchant for wild colors is not to
be trusted when choosing rocks.