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Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
In rec.ponds Timothy Tom wrote:
I am really thinking about giving up on keeping fish in this pond. I bought 3 bags of ice, and placed them in a large trash bag to prevent leakage of water. The pond temperature came down to 83 degrees. The goldfish taken from the bowl from the auto refill system, alive for 24hrs, was acclimated to the pond temp and released in the pond. After release it looked fine. I watched it for about 10 mins, and once again it looked fine. After about 90 mins. I checked the pond again and found it floating. Unless someone tells me that 83 degree water can kill a goldfish within two hours, I have nothing else to test. I have no other theories. I have tested everything I can possibly test, and ruled out everything that can be ruled out. One of the last things I can do is take the pond water that just killed the fish and bring it in to the house to further decrease the temp. Since that remains the one thing you haven't tested. I say do it. Take one of the bowls you used in the previous tests (that the fish survived in). Bring it inside and let it cool off for a day or two. Then try. If the fish dies, it's not the temp. If it survives, then it is the temp. You might also want to look into if there is someone in your area who can do fish necropsies on the dead fish. Perhaps they'd be able to determine the cause of death. |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
|
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
In rec.ponds Timothy Tom wrote:
I am really thinking about giving up on keeping fish in this pond. I bought 3 bags of ice, and placed them in a large trash bag to prevent leakage of water. The pond temperature came down to 83 degrees. The goldfish taken from the bowl from the auto refill system, alive for 24hrs, was acclimated to the pond temp and released in the pond. After release it looked fine. I watched it for about 10 mins, and once again it looked fine. After about 90 mins. I checked the pond again and found it floating. Unless someone tells me that 83 degree water can kill a goldfish within two hours, I have nothing else to test. I have no other theories. I have tested everything I can possibly test, and ruled out everything that can be ruled out. One of the last things I can do is take the pond water that just killed the fish and bring it in to the house to further decrease the temp. Since that remains the one thing you haven't tested. I say do it. Take one of the bowls you used in the previous tests (that the fish survived in). Bring it inside and let it cool off for a day or two. Then try. If the fish dies, it's not the temp. If it survives, then it is the temp. You might also want to look into if there is someone in your area who can do fish necropsies on the dead fish. Perhaps they'd be able to determine the cause of death. |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
|
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
Timothy Tom wrote in message om... I am really thinking about giving up on keeping fish in this pond. I bought 3 bags of ice, and placed them in a large trash bag to prevent leakage of water. The pond temperature came down to 83 degrees. The goldfish taken from the bowl from the auto refill system, alive for 24hrs, was acclimated to the pond temp and released in the pond. After release it looked fine. I watched it for about 10 mins, and once again it looked fine. After about 90 mins. I checked the pond again and found it floating. Unless someone tells me that 83 degree water can kill a goldfish within two hours, I have nothing else to test. I have no other theories. I have tested everything I can possibly test, and ruled out everything that can be ruled out. One of the last things I can do is take the pond water that just killed the fish and bring it in to the house to further decrease the temp. Using the pond water in the house won't give much of a difference with your heat wave. Is it possible to rig up some shadecloth over the pond to see if the water can be cooled a bit out of the direct sun? It also might be worthwhile to try some warmth loving fish in the pond. Perhaps a male Betta as it can handle less than perfect water, a couple rosy reds, some danios, those sort of small testers. Jim |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
Timothy Tom wrote:
... The pond temperature came down to 83 degrees. The goldfish ... was acclimated to the pond temp and released ... After, about 90 mins. I checked the pond again and found it floating ... I have tested everything I can possibly test, and ruled out everything that can be ruled out. One of the last things I can do is take the pond water that just killed the fish and bring it in to the house to further decrease the temp. Another test you might want to do is to take a water sample to your local extension, agricultural or water office and ask them to test the water for toxic substances. It may cost a bit, but certainly less than continually trying to replace the fish. I wouldn't want a pond that couldn't support life -- I'd be afraid to put my hands in it or allow other birds or animals near it. -- Zk (sig compliments of BV) 3500gal pond, 13 pond piggies Oregon, Zone 6 |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
Nedra wrote:
Okay... How many gallons of water are in the pond? How old is your test kit? What are the numbers for ammonia? What is the pH? NitrIte? Saying the ammonia " ...not great not likely to be able to be toxic to the fish" is a big clue. Makes me think you are missing something Very Crucial. Buy a new test for the above tests or a kit! Please get back to us on the ammonia and pH, etc. numbers. Nedra I went back to the begining of this he took his water to the lfs to be tested, I agree w nedra you need a fresh test kit and test yourself. get the drops not the test strips also call your water supply and see what they are puting in the water, if its cloramine your aquasafe might not be working John Rutz Z5 New Mexico Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it. see my pond at: http://www.fuerjefe.com |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
Nedra wrote:
Okay... How many gallons of water are in the pond? How old is your test kit? What are the numbers for ammonia? What is the pH? NitrIte? Saying the ammonia " ...not great not likely to be able to be toxic to the fish" is a big clue. Makes me think you are missing something Very Crucial. Buy a new test for the above tests or a kit! Please get back to us on the ammonia and pH, etc. numbers. Nedra I went back to the begining of this he took his water to the lfs to be tested, I agree w nedra you need a fresh test kit and test yourself. get the drops not the test strips also call your water supply and see what they are puting in the water, if its cloramine your aquasafe might not be working John Rutz Z5 New Mexico Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it. see my pond at: http://www.fuerjefe.com |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
Nedra wrote:
Okay... How many gallons of water are in the pond? How old is your test kit? What are the numbers for ammonia? What is the pH? NitrIte? Saying the ammonia " ...not great not likely to be able to be toxic to the fish" is a big clue. Makes me think you are missing something Very Crucial. Buy a new test for the above tests or a kit! Please get back to us on the ammonia and pH, etc. numbers. Nedra I went back to the begining of this he took his water to the lfs to be tested, I agree w nedra you need a fresh test kit and test yourself. get the drops not the test strips also call your water supply and see what they are puting in the water, if its cloramine your aquasafe might not be working John Rutz Z5 New Mexico Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it. see my pond at: http://www.fuerjefe.com |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
Timothy Tom wrote:
There is not a whole lot else to test now. Water from pond, in a bowl, cooled to indoor temperature. Water from pond to water analyist or chemical analysis. -D -- "There is nothing so strong as gentleness, and there is nothing so gentle as real strength." St. Francis de Sales |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
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Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
"Jim Brown" writes:
Timothy Tom wrote in message . com... I am really thinking about giving up on keeping fish in this pond. I bought 3 bags of ice, and placed them in a large trash bag to prevent leakage of water. The pond temperature came down to 83 degrees. The goldfish taken from the bowl from the auto refill system, alive for 24hrs, was acclimated to the pond temp and released in the pond. After release it looked fine. I watched it for about 10 mins, and once again it looked fine. After about 90 mins. I checked the pond again and found it floating. Unless someone tells me that 83 degree water can kill a goldfish within two hours, I have nothing else to test. I have no other theories. I have tested everything I can possibly test, and ruled out everything that can be ruled out. One of the last things I can do is take the pond water that just killed the fish and bring it in to the house to further decrease the temp. Using the pond water in the house won't give much of a difference with your heat wave. Is it possible to rig up some shadecloth over the pond to see if the water can be cooled a bit out of the direct sun? Isn't inside the house out of direct sun :-) |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
Another update:
A bowl of pond water which had just done in a goldfish was taken inside the house and allowed to equilibrate to the same temp as the other bowl of water containing kitchen faucet water. I was concerned that the elevated temp of the outside pond water was responsible for killing fish. I took one of the goldfish that had been living in the kitchen faucet water for over 24hrs, and placed it in the temp-equilibrated pond water. I stayed up for a couple of hours, and although the fish had not died, it was clearly not doing well when I went to bed. It was dead in the morning, while the fish in the bowl with kitchen faucet water were fine. After all the tests and dead goldfish, I believe that I have determined a possible cause. When adding a large trash bag filled with ice to cool the pond, I caused considerable waves in the pond. I noticed that there was a small puddle next to the pond which moved in sync with the pond water disturbance. I believe that there is a leak in the pond somewhere (difficult to tell with this black preformed liner) which is in equilibrium with water which has collected under the pond. The water under the pond must have some toxic substance in it which is contaminating the pond. This conclusion makes sense to me since water taken directly from the auto-refill does not kill fish, but water coming from the auto-refill system into a freshly cleaned pond liner does quickly kill fish. As far as the pond size, I believe I was incorrect in my original posting that the pond is about 150 gallons. A landscaper installed the pond, so I don't have the documentation on it. I went to the pond liner manufacturer site and I believe I found the liner that matches our shape and it is 250 gallons. I plan to completely empty the pond to dryness, and thoroughly inspect the pond liner to see if I can find any leaks. |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
Please Tim ... You still have not answered the questions I have
regarding Ammonia? pH? NirItes? What are these values in actual numbers? Nedra http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836 http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118 "Timothy Tom" wrote in message om... Another update: A bowl of pond water which had just done in a goldfish was taken inside the house and allowed to equilibrate to the same temp as the other bowl of water containing kitchen faucet water. I was concerned that the elevated temp of the outside pond water was responsible for killing fish. I took one of the goldfish that had been living in the kitchen faucet water for over 24hrs, and placed it in the temp-equilibrated pond water. I stayed up for a couple of hours, and although the fish had not died, it was clearly not doing well when I went to bed. It was dead in the morning, while the fish in the bowl with kitchen faucet water were fine. After all the tests and dead goldfish, I believe that I have determined a possible cause. When adding a large trash bag filled with ice to cool the pond, I caused considerable waves in the pond. I noticed that there was a small puddle next to the pond which moved in sync with the pond water disturbance. I believe that there is a leak in the pond somewhere (difficult to tell with this black preformed liner) which is in equilibrium with water which has collected under the pond. The water under the pond must have some toxic substance in it which is contaminating the pond. This conclusion makes sense to me since water taken directly from the auto-refill does not kill fish, but water coming from the auto-refill system into a freshly cleaned pond liner does quickly kill fish. As far as the pond size, I believe I was incorrect in my original posting that the pond is about 150 gallons. A landscaper installed the pond, so I don't have the documentation on it. I went to the pond liner manufacturer site and I believe I found the liner that matches our shape and it is 250 gallons. I plan to completely empty the pond to dryness, and thoroughly inspect the pond liner to see if I can find any leaks. |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
|
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
"Nedra" wrote in message thlink.net...
Please Tim ... You still have not answered the questions I have regarding Ammonia? pH? NirItes? What are these values in actual numbers? O.K. Nedra, I will test those tonight. |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
"Nedra" wrote in message thlink.net...
Please Tim ... You still have not answered the questions I have regarding Ammonia? pH? NirItes? What are these values in actual numbers? O.K. Nedra, I will test those tonight. |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
TEST RESULTS of Deadly Pond Water:
O.K. I tested the pond water which killed a goldfish within two hours. Please note that this water has been sitting there for over 48 hours, so it is not exactly the same water that killed the fish. The pH measured at 7.7 using Tetra test kit, the nitrate measured at perhaps 1 PPM (color between zero and the 2 PPM color on the color scale) using Salifert test kit, the total ammonia measured at between ..25 and .5 PPM using a Tetra test kit. |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
Thanks Tim! Those numbers should reveal something is amiss.
Nedra http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836 http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118 "Timothy Tom" wrote in message m... "Nedra" wrote in message thlink.net... Please Tim ... You still have not answered the questions I have regarding Ammonia? pH? NirItes? What are these values in actual numbers? O.K. Nedra, I will test those tonight. |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
Sounds to me like the Ammonia is your Enemy.
I would do a Big water change! Be sure you have plenty of DeChlor on hand. Is your water treated\ with chloramine??? Nedra http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836 http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118 "Timothy Tom" wrote in message om... TEST RESULTS of Deadly Pond Water: O.K. I tested the pond water which killed a goldfish within two hours. Please note that this water has been sitting there for over 48 hours, so it is not exactly the same water that killed the fish. The pH measured at 7.7 using Tetra test kit, the nitrate measured at perhaps 1 PPM (color between zero and the 2 PPM color on the color scale) using Salifert test kit, the total ammonia measured at between .25 and .5 PPM using a Tetra test kit. |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
Hi Tim, I just caught up with this thread going back to the 8th of Aug. See
my guesses below: On 14 Aug 2003 14:46:44 -0700, (Timothy Tom) wrote: TEST RESULTS of Deadly Pond Water: O.K. I tested the pond water which killed a goldfish within two hours. Please note that this water has been sitting there for over 48 hours, so it is not exactly the same water that killed the fish. The pH measured at 7.7 using Tetra test kit, the nitrate measured at perhaps 1 PPM (color between zero and the 2 PPM color on the color scale) using Salifert test kit, the total ammonia measured at between .25 and .5 PPM using a Tetra test kit. Nitrate is definitely not the problem. Since your test measures from 1 to 2 ppm I'm sure it is nitrate and not the nitrite test which measure in 0.00. A nitrite number would be nice. With no fish for 48 hrs and a reading of ammonia either means you have chloramines that you're not detoxing with the right product and after 48 hours those number are lower than what they originally were when first filled and treated with just a dechlorinator. If you don't have chloramines in your water system, then I'd definitely say that leak you've found, is adding fertilizer and who knows what. Last year there was a mystery fish kill of a pond that a vendor ran a story on. Turned out it was the feather rock in the pond, all these fine microscopic glass particles coming off the rock and ripping the fishes' gills up. ~ jan See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
Hi Tim, I just caught up with this thread going back to the 8th of Aug. See
my guesses below: On 14 Aug 2003 14:46:44 -0700, (Timothy Tom) wrote: TEST RESULTS of Deadly Pond Water: O.K. I tested the pond water which killed a goldfish within two hours. Please note that this water has been sitting there for over 48 hours, so it is not exactly the same water that killed the fish. The pH measured at 7.7 using Tetra test kit, the nitrate measured at perhaps 1 PPM (color between zero and the 2 PPM color on the color scale) using Salifert test kit, the total ammonia measured at between .25 and .5 PPM using a Tetra test kit. Nitrate is definitely not the problem. Since your test measures from 1 to 2 ppm I'm sure it is nitrate and not the nitrite test which measure in 0.00. A nitrite number would be nice. With no fish for 48 hrs and a reading of ammonia either means you have chloramines that you're not detoxing with the right product and after 48 hours those number are lower than what they originally were when first filled and treated with just a dechlorinator. If you don't have chloramines in your water system, then I'd definitely say that leak you've found, is adding fertilizer and who knows what. Last year there was a mystery fish kill of a pond that a vendor ran a story on. Turned out it was the feather rock in the pond, all these fine microscopic glass particles coming off the rock and ripping the fishes' gills up. ~ jan See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
Timothy Tom wrote:
TEST RESULTS of Deadly Pond Water: O.K. I tested the pond water which killed a goldfish within two hours. Please note that this water has been sitting there for over 48 hours, so it is not exactly the same water that killed the fish. The pH measured at 7.7 using Tetra test kit, the nitrate measured at perhaps 1 PPM (color between zero and the 2 PPM color on the color scale) using Salifert test kit, the total ammonia measured at between .25 and .5 PPM using a Tetra test kit. -- that amount of amonia is deadly if i remember correctley John Rutz Z5 New Mexico Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it. see my pond at: http://www.fuerjefe.com |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
After all the tests and dead goldfish, I believe that I have
determined a possible cause. When adding a large trash bag filled with ice to cool the pond, I caused considerable waves in the pond. I noticed that there was a small puddle next to the pond which moved in sync with the pond water disturbance. I believe that there is a leak in the pond somewhere (difficult to tell with this black preformed liner) which is in equilibrium with water which has collected under the pond. The water under the pond must have some toxic substance in it which is contaminating the pond. This conclusion makes sense to me since water taken directly from the auto-refill does not kill fish, but water coming from the auto-refill system into a freshly cleaned pond liner does quickly kill fish. I think you have probably found the problem. I had preformed ponds for my first two ponds, hooked together with a short stream. The ponds cracked on the third season. My ponds were located above the septic system leach field, and I was having a lot of problems that I think may have come from the exchange of water between the pond and leach field. If this is the case, then you could be getting significant amounts of hydrogen sulfide in the water which is very toxic to the fish, and is not one of the usual tests that we perform. Check for the leaks. -- RichToyBox http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 01:32:37 GMT, "RichToyBox"
wrote: After all the tests and dead goldfish, I believe that I have determined a possible cause. When adding a large trash bag filled with ice to cool the pond, I caused considerable waves in the pond. I noticed that there was a small puddle next to the pond which moved in sync with the pond water disturbance. I believe that there is a leak in the pond somewhere (difficult to tell with this black preformed liner) which is in equilibrium with water which has collected under the pond. The water under the pond must have some toxic substance in it which is contaminating the pond. This conclusion makes sense to me since water taken directly from the auto-refill does not kill fish, but water coming from the auto-refill system into a freshly cleaned pond liner does quickly kill fish. I think you have probably found the problem. I had preformed ponds for my first two ponds, hooked together with a short stream. The ponds cracked on the third season. My ponds were located above the septic system leach field, and I was having a lot of problems that I think may have come from the exchange of water between the pond and leach field. If this is the case, then you could be getting significant amounts of hydrogen sulfide in the water which is very toxic to the fish, and is not one of the usual tests that we perform. Check for the leaks. 3rd yr. huh... bummer. Well, ......*sigh*........I guess i will have to dig another pond in the next 18 months. You know, with a liner and all...SEG |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
Thank You, John .... your vote of confidence means alot.
Nedra http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836 http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118 "john rutz" wrote in message ... Timothy Tom wrote: TEST RESULTS of Deadly Pond Water: O.K. I tested the pond water which killed a goldfish within two hours. Please note that this water has been sitting there for over 48 hours, so it is not exactly the same water that killed the fish. The pH measured at 7.7 using Tetra test kit, the nitrate measured at perhaps 1 PPM (color between zero and the 2 PPM color on the color scale) using Salifert test kit, the total ammonia measured at between .25 and .5 PPM using a Tetra test kit. -- that amount of amonia is deadly if i remember correctley John Rutz Z5 New Mexico Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it. see my pond at: http://www.fuerjefe.com |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
"john rutz" wrote in message ... Timothy Tom wrote: TEST RESULTS of Deadly Pond Water: O.K. I tested the pond water which killed a goldfish within two hours. Please note that this water has been sitting there for over 48 hours, so it is not exactly the same water that killed the fish. The pH measured at 7.7 using Tetra test kit, the nitrate measured at perhaps 1 PPM (color between zero and the 2 PPM color on the color scale) using Salifert test kit, the total ammonia measured at between .25 and .5 PPM using a Tetra test kit. -- that amount of amonia is deadly if i remember correctley John Rutz Z5 New Mexico Tom, I don't buy the ammonia theory. 0.25 -0.5 ppm ammonia is not that severe, certainly not bad enought to kill so quickly. If it were no fish would ever survive a cycle, right? Temp & pH factor into toxicity of ammonia, but extrapolating from table in http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling...w-much-ammonia pH of 7.7, even at 83F, 0.5 ppm is not off the chart, is it? Count me in the leaching septic or fertilizers camp ~ MattO |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
After all the tests and dead goldfish, I believe that I have
determined a possible cause. When adding a large trash bag filled with ice to cool the pond, I caused considerable waves in the pond. I noticed that there was a small puddle next to the pond which moved in sync with the pond water disturbance. I believe that there is a leak in the pond somewhere (difficult to tell with this black preformed liner) which is in equilibrium with water which has collected under the pond. The water under the pond must have some toxic substance in it which is contaminating the pond. This conclusion makes sense to me since water taken directly from the auto-refill does not kill fish, but water coming from the auto-refill system into a freshly cleaned pond liner does quickly kill fish. I think you have probably found the problem. I had preformed ponds for my first two ponds, hooked together with a short stream. The ponds cracked on the third season. My ponds were located above the septic system leach field, and I was having a lot of problems that I think may have come from the exchange of water between the pond and leach field. If this is the case, then you could be getting significant amounts of hydrogen sulfide in the water which is very toxic to the fish, and is not one of the usual tests that we perform. Check for the leaks. -- RichToyBox http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 01:32:37 GMT, "RichToyBox"
wrote: After all the tests and dead goldfish, I believe that I have determined a possible cause. When adding a large trash bag filled with ice to cool the pond, I caused considerable waves in the pond. I noticed that there was a small puddle next to the pond which moved in sync with the pond water disturbance. I believe that there is a leak in the pond somewhere (difficult to tell with this black preformed liner) which is in equilibrium with water which has collected under the pond. The water under the pond must have some toxic substance in it which is contaminating the pond. This conclusion makes sense to me since water taken directly from the auto-refill does not kill fish, but water coming from the auto-refill system into a freshly cleaned pond liner does quickly kill fish. I think you have probably found the problem. I had preformed ponds for my first two ponds, hooked together with a short stream. The ponds cracked on the third season. My ponds were located above the septic system leach field, and I was having a lot of problems that I think may have come from the exchange of water between the pond and leach field. If this is the case, then you could be getting significant amounts of hydrogen sulfide in the water which is very toxic to the fish, and is not one of the usual tests that we perform. Check for the leaks. 3rd yr. huh... bummer. Well, ......*sigh*........I guess i will have to dig another pond in the next 18 months. You know, with a liner and all...SEG |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
Thank You, John .... your vote of confidence means alot.
Nedra http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836 http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118 "john rutz" wrote in message ... Timothy Tom wrote: TEST RESULTS of Deadly Pond Water: O.K. I tested the pond water which killed a goldfish within two hours. Please note that this water has been sitting there for over 48 hours, so it is not exactly the same water that killed the fish. The pH measured at 7.7 using Tetra test kit, the nitrate measured at perhaps 1 PPM (color between zero and the 2 PPM color on the color scale) using Salifert test kit, the total ammonia measured at between .25 and .5 PPM using a Tetra test kit. -- that amount of amonia is deadly if i remember correctley John Rutz Z5 New Mexico Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it. see my pond at: http://www.fuerjefe.com |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
"john rutz" wrote in message ... Timothy Tom wrote: TEST RESULTS of Deadly Pond Water: O.K. I tested the pond water which killed a goldfish within two hours. Please note that this water has been sitting there for over 48 hours, so it is not exactly the same water that killed the fish. The pH measured at 7.7 using Tetra test kit, the nitrate measured at perhaps 1 PPM (color between zero and the 2 PPM color on the color scale) using Salifert test kit, the total ammonia measured at between .25 and .5 PPM using a Tetra test kit. -- that amount of amonia is deadly if i remember correctley John Rutz Z5 New Mexico Tom, I don't buy the ammonia theory. 0.25 -0.5 ppm ammonia is not that severe, certainly not bad enought to kill so quickly. If it were no fish would ever survive a cycle, right? Temp & pH factor into toxicity of ammonia, but extrapolating from table in http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling...w-much-ammonia pH of 7.7, even at 83F, 0.5 ppm is not off the chart, is it? Count me in the leaching septic or fertilizers camp ~ MattO |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
After all the tests and dead goldfish, I believe that I have
determined a possible cause. When adding a large trash bag filled with ice to cool the pond, I caused considerable waves in the pond. I noticed that there was a small puddle next to the pond which moved in sync with the pond water disturbance. I believe that there is a leak in the pond somewhere (difficult to tell with this black preformed liner) which is in equilibrium with water which has collected under the pond. The water under the pond must have some toxic substance in it which is contaminating the pond. This conclusion makes sense to me since water taken directly from the auto-refill does not kill fish, but water coming from the auto-refill system into a freshly cleaned pond liner does quickly kill fish. I think you have probably found the problem. I had preformed ponds for my first two ponds, hooked together with a short stream. The ponds cracked on the third season. My ponds were located above the septic system leach field, and I was having a lot of problems that I think may have come from the exchange of water between the pond and leach field. If this is the case, then you could be getting significant amounts of hydrogen sulfide in the water which is very toxic to the fish, and is not one of the usual tests that we perform. Check for the leaks. -- RichToyBox http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 01:32:37 GMT, "RichToyBox"
wrote: After all the tests and dead goldfish, I believe that I have determined a possible cause. When adding a large trash bag filled with ice to cool the pond, I caused considerable waves in the pond. I noticed that there was a small puddle next to the pond which moved in sync with the pond water disturbance. I believe that there is a leak in the pond somewhere (difficult to tell with this black preformed liner) which is in equilibrium with water which has collected under the pond. The water under the pond must have some toxic substance in it which is contaminating the pond. This conclusion makes sense to me since water taken directly from the auto-refill does not kill fish, but water coming from the auto-refill system into a freshly cleaned pond liner does quickly kill fish. I think you have probably found the problem. I had preformed ponds for my first two ponds, hooked together with a short stream. The ponds cracked on the third season. My ponds were located above the septic system leach field, and I was having a lot of problems that I think may have come from the exchange of water between the pond and leach field. If this is the case, then you could be getting significant amounts of hydrogen sulfide in the water which is very toxic to the fish, and is not one of the usual tests that we perform. Check for the leaks. 3rd yr. huh... bummer. Well, ......*sigh*........I guess i will have to dig another pond in the next 18 months. You know, with a liner and all...SEG |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
Thank You, John .... your vote of confidence means alot.
Nedra http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836 http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118 "john rutz" wrote in message ... Timothy Tom wrote: TEST RESULTS of Deadly Pond Water: O.K. I tested the pond water which killed a goldfish within two hours. Please note that this water has been sitting there for over 48 hours, so it is not exactly the same water that killed the fish. The pH measured at 7.7 using Tetra test kit, the nitrate measured at perhaps 1 PPM (color between zero and the 2 PPM color on the color scale) using Salifert test kit, the total ammonia measured at between .25 and .5 PPM using a Tetra test kit. -- that amount of amonia is deadly if i remember correctley John Rutz Z5 New Mexico Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it. see my pond at: http://www.fuerjefe.com |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
"john rutz" wrote in message ... Timothy Tom wrote: TEST RESULTS of Deadly Pond Water: O.K. I tested the pond water which killed a goldfish within two hours. Please note that this water has been sitting there for over 48 hours, so it is not exactly the same water that killed the fish. The pH measured at 7.7 using Tetra test kit, the nitrate measured at perhaps 1 PPM (color between zero and the 2 PPM color on the color scale) using Salifert test kit, the total ammonia measured at between .25 and .5 PPM using a Tetra test kit. -- that amount of amonia is deadly if i remember correctley John Rutz Z5 New Mexico Tom, I don't buy the ammonia theory. 0.25 -0.5 ppm ammonia is not that severe, certainly not bad enought to kill so quickly. If it were no fish would ever survive a cycle, right? Temp & pH factor into toxicity of ammonia, but extrapolating from table in http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling...w-much-ammonia pH of 7.7, even at 83F, 0.5 ppm is not off the chart, is it? Count me in the leaching septic or fertilizers camp ~ MattO |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
Timothy Tom wrote:
scale) using Salifert test kit, the total ammonia measured at between .25 and .5 PPM using a Tetra test kit. -- that amount of amonia is deadly if i remember correctley Naaa, .25 is the first number of most test kits. It sure wouldn't kill in 2 hrs, though sure would stress the fish after a few days. ~ jan See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
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Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
Followup UPDATE
The following test was done. One bowl of water from the Auto-refill system was collected in a plastic bowl, and a second bowl was filled with tap water from the kitchen faucet. Both bowls were treated with dechlorinator/conditioner (TetraAqua Aquasafe). Two goldfish per bowl were acclimated and released into the bowls. It is important to note that both bowls were kept in the house (Thermostat kept at 79 degrees during the day, and 84 degrees at night. RESULTS AFTER APPROXIMATELY 24 HRS. ALL GOLDFISH ALIVE. Well this rules out the auto-refill system as the culprit. I did remeasure the temperature of the pond water and found it to be 85 degrees. We are having a heat wave in South Texas. Could all my problems be as simply as the pond being too hot? Can 85 degree water kill goldfish in a couple of hours. I never saw the goldfish gulping air near the surface as I would expect if the temp were too hot, and the oxygen level too low in the pond. My next test will be to go get a couple bags of ice, and lower the temp of my pond to below 80 degrees and see if the goldfish make it through a few hours. As I mentioned in my earlier post, the pond did originally have 3 koi and a catfish in it for nearly two years, and I believe koi are more heat-tolerant than goldfish. At this point I have ruled out the following as culprits in killing the pond fish: 1) Municipal water supply (both from auto-refill and kitchen faucet water supported fish inside my house in a bowl) 2) Electical short-circuit/current leak (Fish died with all electrical devices unplugged/pond circuit is on GFI circuit, and any leak should switch the plug off anyway) 3) Rock in pond (Rock removed, and fish still died) 4)Chemicals, contaminants, poisons (After over ten complete water changes, if the water is still toxic then I have discovered a highly deadly biotoxin that probably should have killed my whole family by now. 5) Pond liner (Commercial pre-formed liner in use for over two years. 6) pH, Ammonia (tested and while not great, not likely to be able to be acutely toxic to fish. There is not a whole lot else to test now. |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
"MattO" writes:
"john rutz" wrote in message ... Timothy Tom wrote: TEST RESULTS of Deadly Pond Water: O.K. I tested the pond water which killed a goldfish within two hours. Please note that this water has been sitting there for over 48 hours, so it is not exactly the same water that killed the fish. The pH measured at 7.7 using Tetra test kit, the nitrate measured at perhaps 1 PPM (color between zero and the 2 PPM color on the color scale) using Salifert test kit, the total ammonia measured at between .25 and .5 PPM using a Tetra test kit. -- that amount of amonia is deadly if i remember correctley John Rutz Z5 New Mexico Tom, I don't buy the ammonia theory. 0.25 -0.5 ppm ammonia is not that severe, certainly not bad enought to kill so quickly. Ditto. I imagine some of that ammonia came from the dead fish itself anyway. |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
Deadly Residue/Algae?
O.K. I COMPLETELY emptied the water from the pond (Not a single drop left, pond completely dried). I did not find any leak. With the pond completely empty and dried, I walked around it and thoroughly examined it. The pond was emptied of all pumps, all rocks, everything. I did not feel any evidence of water under the pond liner, or any water leaking into the liner from outside. I noticed that there was some green algae-appearing material on about 50% of the pond walls, and some whiteish residue on about 25% of the pond wall surface. I got into the pond and scrubbed the walls completely. The pond was rinsed and the procedure was repeated twice (no soap just water and a brush). The pond was completely clean, no residue, no algae. You would need a magnifying glass to find any speck of anything on the liner. The pond was refilled, and treated with dechlorinator and a chloramine detoxifyer (Beckett product). A goldfish was acclimated and released. So far it looks good. Will update. Now I can truely say, I do not believe there is anything left to explain if the fish dies. |
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