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Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
(Timothy Tom) wrote:
Did your powerwasher ever hold soap or other cleaning supplies? With repeated losses in such a short time, there is something toxic still in the pond. Garden fertilizer? Decomposing residues fro before? I don't think a high turnover with chlorinated water would have killed the first batch. Were there any other changes in equipment at that time? Jim The powerwasher has never had any kind of detergent or cleaner used in it. My wife said she had added plant fertilizer to the plants, but she said she had used this before without problem to the koi. In addition my last two unsuccessful attempts to add fish were done after multiple water changes with all plants/fertilizer removed. Following the death of the first fish, the pond was totally cleaned with very little residue left, with the exception of some crevices from the lava rock. If rotting residue were the problem though, wouldnt there be an ammonia spike? What I am planning to do is to remove all material from the pond (pumps, rocks, everything, add water only and conditioner) to eliminate all variables. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
(Timothy Tom) wrote:
UPDATE The pond water was changed (for about the 8th time). All rocks were removed. A dechlorinator and chloramine remover was added. The water was mixed and sat overnight. A goldfish was acclimated (sat in bag in pond 1 hour, followed by adding approx. 1/2 cup pond water to bag, followed by a cup in 45 min, followed by release into pond 30 min later. NO electrical devices plugged in. FISH DEAD IN TWO HOURS. I am now totally at a loss. The only possible variables not controlled now is the liner in the pond, the pumps leaching some toxic substance, or the temp in the pond being too hot. As mentioned earlier the same tap water was used to keep goldfish alive in a gallon container for a week. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
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Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
Are you using the same equipment to refill the pond each time? Could there
be some kind of contaminate in the equipment to refill the pond? I wondered because you probably used a different system to fill the bowl. Just a thought from a new pond person. Kc wrote in message ... please cross post as he really needs help. Ingrid (Timothy Tom) wrote: I have a 150 gallon outdoor pond. It was populated by 3 koi, and a small catfish for over a year and a half until the automatic refill was inadvertantly turned off. When it was turned back on the fish died the next day. I assumed it was from a large influx of chlorinated water. Anyway, I took the opportunity to totally clean out the pond including about a inch of sludge, and small rocks on the bottom. New water was added, dechlorinator/conditioning solution added, and the pond was left to circulate for 48 hours. New koi were added (after acclimation) and died within 1 hour. I changed the water 3 complete times, reconditioned the water, let it circulate for 1 week, added some comets which died within two hours. I changed the water again three times, let it circulate for 3 weeks, took a water sample to my local LFS. They told me that the ammonia was slightly high (but not deadly) pH, was about 8.1 (slightly high but not deadly). Basically they told me that they did not know why the fish died. Using the same tap water that the pond is refilled from, I placed some comets which lived for a week without problem in a bowl in my home. When placed the comets in the pond, after acclimation they died within a day. WHAT IS GOING ON? It appears that there is something quite toxic to fish in the fish pond. Still I have changed out the water multiple multiple times with no improvement. The toxic substance must be specific to the pond, since the tap water did not kill the fish in a fish bowl. The only things I have in the pond are two pumps (one is a new fountain pump (Beckett) and the other is the waterfall pump which has been there for two years without problem. The pumps are on GFI circuits so I don't think there could be a large short circuit. There are Lava type rocks in the pond which, once again were in there with the koi for over a year without problem. I did power wash the rocks prior to putting them back in the pond. The water temp is in the low 80's. The water is perfectly clear. Please any help appreciated since I am at a loss what to do next. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
Are you using the same equipment to refill the pond each time? Could there
be some kind of contaminate in the equipment to refill the pond? I wondered because you probably used a different system to fill the bowl. Just a thought from a new pond person. Kc wrote in message ... please cross post as he really needs help. Ingrid (Timothy Tom) wrote: I have a 150 gallon outdoor pond. It was populated by 3 koi, and a small catfish for over a year and a half until the automatic refill was inadvertantly turned off. When it was turned back on the fish died the next day. I assumed it was from a large influx of chlorinated water. Anyway, I took the opportunity to totally clean out the pond including about a inch of sludge, and small rocks on the bottom. New water was added, dechlorinator/conditioning solution added, and the pond was left to circulate for 48 hours. New koi were added (after acclimation) and died within 1 hour. I changed the water 3 complete times, reconditioned the water, let it circulate for 1 week, added some comets which died within two hours. I changed the water again three times, let it circulate for 3 weeks, took a water sample to my local LFS. They told me that the ammonia was slightly high (but not deadly) pH, was about 8.1 (slightly high but not deadly). Basically they told me that they did not know why the fish died. Using the same tap water that the pond is refilled from, I placed some comets which lived for a week without problem in a bowl in my home. When placed the comets in the pond, after acclimation they died within a day. WHAT IS GOING ON? It appears that there is something quite toxic to fish in the fish pond. Still I have changed out the water multiple multiple times with no improvement. The toxic substance must be specific to the pond, since the tap water did not kill the fish in a fish bowl. The only things I have in the pond are two pumps (one is a new fountain pump (Beckett) and the other is the waterfall pump which has been there for two years without problem. The pumps are on GFI circuits so I don't think there could be a large short circuit. There are Lava type rocks in the pond which, once again were in there with the koi for over a year without problem. I did power wash the rocks prior to putting them back in the pond. The water temp is in the low 80's. The water is perfectly clear. Please any help appreciated since I am at a loss what to do next. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
I have a 150 gallon outdoor pond. It was populated by 3 koi, and a
small catfish for over a year and a half until the automatic refill was inadvertantly turned off. When it was turned back on the fish died the next day. How is your water treated, by whom? Some municipalities have stopped using chlorine to treat domestic water and have started using things like ozone, bromine partly to improve the taste and partly because they have longer half lives and are considered more effective. Check with your water supplier. How are you refilling the pond? If you are using the automatic re-filler mentioned above try filling from some other source. Use the kitchen tap and a hose. I only suggest this as your problems started when you turned the automatic system back on. If the water is still being chlorinated the a test for this might be to fill a small container with tap water, either let it sit for 24Hrs or add de-chlorinator and introduce a small fish. If the fish survives try the same thing using the water source you are using to fill the pond. Take the sample at the point it enters the pond, but don't take it from the pond. If the fish survives this part of the test then the problem is in the pond, if it doesn't then the problem is in the water used to fill the pond. WARNING, If the fish doesn't survive part one of the test GET YOUR WATER TESTED YOU MAY BE AT RISK! |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
I have a 150 gallon outdoor pond. It was populated by 3 koi, and a
small catfish for over a year and a half until the automatic refill was inadvertantly turned off. When it was turned back on the fish died the next day. How is your water treated, by whom? Some municipalities have stopped using chlorine to treat domestic water and have started using things like ozone, bromine partly to improve the taste and partly because they have longer half lives and are considered more effective. Check with your water supplier. How are you refilling the pond? If you are using the automatic re-filler mentioned above try filling from some other source. Use the kitchen tap and a hose. I only suggest this as your problems started when you turned the automatic system back on. If the water is still being chlorinated the a test for this might be to fill a small container with tap water, either let it sit for 24Hrs or add de-chlorinator and introduce a small fish. If the fish survives try the same thing using the water source you are using to fill the pond. Take the sample at the point it enters the pond, but don't take it from the pond. If the fish survives this part of the test then the problem is in the pond, if it doesn't then the problem is in the water used to fill the pond. WARNING, If the fish doesn't survive part one of the test GET YOUR WATER TESTED YOU MAY BE AT RISK! |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
What's the fish look like when it dies? Does it have all it's fins or have
they been eaten away leaving only the thicker parts? Are there any red marks on it's belly? Do the gills look normal or are they red? Two things that can kill are different water temperatures and different PH. Chlorine (or other chemicals) normally cause red gills. Nitrites usually cause red belly. Fins eaten away is usually PH. wrote in message ... please cross post as he really needs help. Ingrid (Timothy Tom) wrote: I have a 150 gallon outdoor pond. It was populated by 3 koi, and a small catfish for over a year and a half until the automatic refill was inadvertantly turned off. When it was turned back on the fish died the next day. I assumed it was from a large influx of chlorinated water. Anyway, I took the opportunity to totally clean out the pond including about a inch of sludge, and small rocks on the bottom. New water was added, dechlorinator/conditioning solution added, and the pond was left to circulate for 48 hours. New koi were added (after acclimation) and died within 1 hour. I changed the water 3 complete times, reconditioned the water, let it circulate for 1 week, added some comets which died within two hours. I changed the water again three times, let it circulate for 3 weeks, took a water sample to my local LFS. They told me that the ammonia was slightly high (but not deadly) pH, was about 8.1 (slightly high but not deadly). Basically they told me that they did not know why the fish died. Using the same tap water that the pond is refilled from, I placed some comets which lived for a week without problem in a bowl in my home. When placed the comets in the pond, after acclimation they died within a day. WHAT IS GOING ON? It appears that there is something quite toxic to fish in the fish pond. Still I have changed out the water multiple multiple times with no improvement. The toxic substance must be specific to the pond, since the tap water did not kill the fish in a fish bowl. The only things I have in the pond are two pumps (one is a new fountain pump (Beckett) and the other is the waterfall pump which has been there for two years without problem. The pumps are on GFI circuits so I don't think there could be a large short circuit. There are Lava type rocks in the pond which, once again were in there with the koi for over a year without problem. I did power wash the rocks prior to putting them back in the pond. The water temp is in the low 80's. The water is perfectly clear. Please any help appreciated since I am at a loss what to do next. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
Timothy, did you use any solution (detergent, etc.) when you power-washed
the rocks? Is it your power washer, or did you rent it? If you rented it, there might have been sufficient chemical in the power washer for the rocks to absorb t -- especially at the pressure generated by a power washer. I think many power washers are rented by people who use them to apply Clorox to house siding or deck before painting, or to remove mildew. Also, what did you use to clean out the sludge on the bottom? It seems unlikely that any contaminant would be introduced using a shop vac to remove sludge, but I suppose it's possible. Anne Lurie Raleigh, NC wrote in message ... please cross post as he really needs help. Ingrid (Timothy Tom) wrote: I have a 150 gallon outdoor pond. It was populated by 3 koi, and a small catfish for over a year and a half until the automatic refill was inadvertantly turned off. When it was turned back on the fish died the next day. I assumed it was from a large influx of chlorinated water. Anyway, I took the opportunity to totally clean out the pond including about a inch of sludge, and small rocks on the bottom. New water was added, dechlorinator/conditioning solution added, and the pond was left to circulate for 48 hours. New koi were added (after acclimation) and died within 1 hour. I changed the water 3 complete times, reconditioned the water, let it circulate for 1 week, added some comets which died within two hours. I changed the water again three times, let it circulate for 3 weeks, took a water sample to my local LFS. They told me that the ammonia was slightly high (but not deadly) pH, was about 8.1 (slightly high but not deadly). Basically they told me that they did not know why the fish died. Using the same tap water that the pond is refilled from, I placed some comets which lived for a week without problem in a bowl in my home. When placed the comets in the pond, after acclimation they died within a day. WHAT IS GOING ON? It appears that there is something quite toxic to fish in the fish pond. Still I have changed out the water multiple multiple times with no improvement. The toxic substance must be specific to the pond, since the tap water did not kill the fish in a fish bowl. The only things I have in the pond are two pumps (one is a new fountain pump (Beckett) and the other is the waterfall pump which has been there for two years without problem. The pumps are on GFI circuits so I don't think there could be a large short circuit. There are Lava type rocks in the pond which, once again were in there with the koi for over a year without problem. I did power wash the rocks prior to putting them back in the pond. The water temp is in the low 80's. The water is perfectly clear. Please any help appreciated since I am at a loss what to do next. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
I've been thinking on this one all day. It appears as if all the variables
are covered. My one suggestion for cleaning the lava rock is to put it on a grill and cook it like a steak: it will burn out any residue that's in the rocks, and nothing is left after they heat up. It doesn't smell too good, but it's an extremely effective way to clean the rock, much more effective than simply blasting it with a hose or power washer. If the pumps were leaking, you'd notice the film on the water. After the water's been changed so many times, one would "assume" that anything toxic had been washed out. To ensure, I'd nuke the pond with a heavy PP dose which would neutralize most toxins, then maybe put a couple of pounds of activated charcoal in a knee-high stocking for a few days where there's heavy water flow. Between the two, if there are any toxins in the water or on the liner, they will be removed. Because the fish lived in the same water in the house, but died when placed in the pond, it leads me to believe some of the simple things like pH differences, water temp change, fish stress in the bag (ammonia? heat from the sun?) The power washer is suspect, but if you say it hasn't been used for anything toxic (BTW, fertilizers CAN be toxic . . .) then the above recommended things would cure that, especially firing up the lava rock! This is a tough one: everything I can think of has already been tried or eliminated. I'll keep thinking, and maybe someone will trip over the answer. Best of luck, Lee wrote in message ... please cross post as he really needs help. Ingrid (Timothy Tom) wrote: I have a 150 gallon outdoor pond. It was populated by 3 koi, and a small catfish for over a year and a half until the automatic refill was inadvertantly turned off. When it was turned back on the fish died the next day. I assumed it was from a large influx of chlorinated water. Anyway, I took the opportunity to totally clean out the pond including about a inch of sludge, and small rocks on the bottom. New water was added, dechlorinator/conditioning solution added, and the pond was left to circulate for 48 hours. New koi were added (after acclimation) and died within 1 hour. I changed the water 3 complete times, reconditioned the water, let it circulate for 1 week, added some comets which died within two hours. I changed the water again three times, let it circulate for 3 weeks, took a water sample to my local LFS. They told me that the ammonia was slightly high (but not deadly) pH, was about 8.1 (slightly high but not deadly). Basically they told me that they did not know why the fish died. Using the same tap water that the pond is refilled from, I placed some comets which lived for a week without problem in a bowl in my home. When placed the comets in the pond, after acclimation they died within a day. WHAT IS GOING ON? It appears that there is something quite toxic to fish in the fish pond. Still I have changed out the water multiple multiple times with no improvement. The toxic substance must be specific to the pond, since the tap water did not kill the fish in a fish bowl. The only things I have in the pond are two pumps (one is a new fountain pump (Beckett) and the other is the waterfall pump which has been there for two years without problem. The pumps are on GFI circuits so I don't think there could be a large short circuit. There are Lava type rocks in the pond which, once again were in there with the koi for over a year without problem. I did power wash the rocks prior to putting them back in the pond. The water temp is in the low 80's. The water is perfectly clear. Please any help appreciated since I am at a loss what to do next. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
Thank you all for your thoughts. The pond has always been refilled
using an auto-refill valve put in by the original landscaper who installed the pond. The fact that fish lived in a bowl of the same treated tap-water that is used to fill the pond suggests to me that the problem does not lie in the municipal water source. It is possible that it has something to do with the auto-refill I suppose. As far as the pond liner, it is one of the preformed liners from home depot, so I doubt that that could be the problem. As far as the pumps, there is a waterfall pump (Beckett waterfall pump) and a Beckett medium fountain pump. As far as the water parameters, recently the temp has been around 83 degrees. The pH measured at about 8.0. As I previously mentioned the ammonia level was tested by the LFS, who reported that is was a little high (I am afraid I dont remember the number or the units) but not deadly. The fact that this pond and all equipment, and rocks in it supported fish successfully for the past two years, is what is so confusing and frustrating for me. I will try to test for some of the other parameter mentioned. |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
Thank you all for your thoughts. The pond has always been refilled
using an auto-refill valve put in by the original landscaper who installed the pond. The fact that fish lived in a bowl of the same treated tap-water that is used to fill the pond suggests to me that the problem does not lie in the municipal water source. It is possible that it has something to do with the auto-refill I suppose. As far as the pond liner, it is one of the preformed liners from home depot, so I doubt that that could be the problem. As far as the pumps, there is a waterfall pump (Beckett waterfall pump) and a Beckett medium fountain pump. As far as the water parameters, recently the temp has been around 83 degrees. The pH measured at about 8.0. As I previously mentioned the ammonia level was tested by the LFS, who reported that is was a little high (I am afraid I dont remember the number or the units) but not deadly. The fact that this pond and all equipment, and rocks in it supported fish successfully for the past two years, is what is so confusing and frustrating for me. I will try to test for some of the other parameter mentioned. |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
(Timothy Tom) wrote: I have a 150 gallon outdoor pond. It was populated by 3 koi, and a small catfish for over a year and a half until the automatic refill was inadvertantly turned off. When it was turned back on the fish died the next day. I assumed it was from a large influx of chlorinated water. Anyway, I took the opportunity to totally clean out the pond including about a inch of sludge, and small rocks on the bottom. New water was added, dechlorinator/conditioning solution added, and the pond was left to circulate for 48 hours. New koi were added (after acclimation) and died within 1 hour. I changed the water 3 complete times, reconditioned the water, let it circulate for 1 week, added some comets which died within two hours. I changed the water again three times, let it circulate for 3 weeks, took a water sample to my local LFS. They told me that the ammonia was slightly high (but not deadly) pH, was about 8.1 (slightly high but not deadly). Basically they told me that they did not know why the fish died. Using the same tap water that the pond is refilled from, I placed some comets which lived for a week without problem in a bowl in my home. When placed the comets in the pond, after acclimation they died within a day. WHAT IS GOING ON? It appears that there is something quite toxic to fish in the fish pond. Still I have changed out the water multiple multiple times with no improvement. The toxic substance must be specific to the pond, since the tap water did not kill the fish in a fish bowl. The only things I have in the pond are two pumps (one is a new fountain pump (Beckett) and the other is the waterfall pump which has been there for two years without problem. The pumps are on GFI circuits so I don't think there could be a large short circuit. There are Lava type rocks in the pond which, once again were in there with the koi for over a year without problem. I did power wash the rocks prior to putting them back in the pond. The water temp is in the low 80's. The water is perfectly clear. Please any help appreciated since I am at a loss what to do next. A couple of questions. I read that you have put goldfish in your preform that you had in a bowl with the same declorinator/ conditioning solution that you use in your preform. Did you get your water from the same source? That is, when you fill your preform, I am assuming that you fill it with a hose or its dedicated water source. Is this correct? I have seen garden hoses break down chemically over time and become toxic. The same with underground sprinkler systems. Let get rid of that variable also. Try to use the same source of water that you used for the goldfish that you had in the bowl. Theron |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
To address the power-washer concerns, the washer has been used by me
only. It has only had water used in it. Nothing else, nada, no detergents, no fertilizer, nothing except water from a hose receiving the same municipal water. As far as what the fish look like when I put them in. This does cause me some concern. When I first put the fish in, it appears as if something really irritates them. Most of the fish I have witnessed appear to intermittently dart around for about 2-3 min, and then appear to settle to the bottom in a upright (i.e. apparently resting) position. One of the goldfish that was first added, I found had actually jumped out of the pond. I put it back in, and it died within 10 mins. I have then witnessed several fish die within 10-20 min. I think this makes it clear that there is no other creature/critter involved in killing them. It further seems to support some toxin/strong irritant killing them. Upon dying, I have really not noticed any redness anywhere on the fish. They simply look completely normal except they are limp and dead. |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
"Timothy Tom" wrote in message om... Thank you all for your thoughts. The pond has always been refilled using an auto-refill valve put in by the original landscaper who installed the pond. The fact that fish lived in a bowl of the same treated tap-water that is used to fill the pond suggests to me that the problem does not lie in the municipal water source. It is possible that it has something to do with the auto-refill I suppose. Axolotl said: How are you refilling the pond? If you are using the automatic re-filler mentioned above try filling from some other source. Use the kitchen tap and a hose. I only suggest this as your problems started when you turned the automatic system back on. I think Axolotl was on to something. Not the water itself, but something in the auto-refill plumbing. Willing to risk 1 more fish? Try filling pond from a hose? ~MattO |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
Which dechlorinating/conditioning product did you use? How much did
you put in the goldfish bowl and what is the goldfish bowl volume? How much did you put in the 150 gallon pond? And, how are you acclimating the new fish prior to stocking? Theron wrote: (Timothy Tom) wrote: I have a 150 gallon outdoor pond. It was populated by 3 koi, and a small catfish for over a year and a half until the automatic refill was inadvertantly turned off. When it was turned back on the fish died the next day. I assumed it was from a large influx of chlorinated water. Anyway, I took the opportunity to totally clean out the pond including about a inch of sludge, and small rocks on the bottom. New water was added, dechlorinator/conditioning solution added, and the pond was left to circulate for 48 hours. New koi were added (after acclimation) and died within 1 hour. I changed the water 3 complete times, reconditioned the water, let it circulate for 1 week, added some comets which died within two hours. I changed the water again three times, let it circulate for 3 weeks, took a water sample to my local LFS. They told me that the ammonia was slightly high (but not deadly) pH, was about 8.1 (slightly high but not deadly). Basically they told me that they did not know why the fish died. Using the same tap water that the pond is refilled from, I placed some comets which lived for a week without problem in a bowl in my home. When placed the comets in the pond, after acclimation they died within a day. WHAT IS GOING ON? It appears that there is something quite toxic to fish in the fish pond. Still I have changed out the water multiple multiple times with no improvement. The toxic substance must be specific to the pond, since the tap water did not kill the fish in a fish bowl. The only things I have in the pond are two pumps (one is a new fountain pump (Beckett) and the other is the waterfall pump which has been there for two years without problem. The pumps are on GFI circuits so I don't think there could be a large short circuit. There are Lava type rocks in the pond which, once again were in there with the koi for over a year without problem. I did power wash the rocks prior to putting them back in the pond. The water temp is in the low 80's. The water is perfectly clear. Please any help appreciated since I am at a loss what to do next. A couple of questions. I read that you have put goldfish in your preform that you had in a bowl with the same declorinator/ conditioning solution that you use in your preform. Did you get your water from the same source? That is, when you fill your preform, I am assuming that you fill it with a hose or its dedicated water source. Is this correct? I have seen garden hoses break down chemically over time and become toxic. The same with underground sprinkler systems. Let get rid of that variable also. Try to use the same source of water that you used for the goldfish that you had in the bowl. Theron |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
"Went to sleep" on the problem last night, and two other things occured to
me that you might check: one is stray voltage . . .are your pumps/electricals plugged into GFCI outlets? One way to find out is if you stick your hand in the water, do you feel a buzz? Alternatively, you may just be getting intermitent spikes down the line. The other thing is your filter material: is there a chance that it went toxic on you during the down time? May I "assume" that your yard has not been recently treated for "whatever", nor your neighbors' (wind-borne stuff)? Lee "Timothy Tom" wrote in message om... To address the power-washer concerns, the washer has been used by me only. It has only had water used in it. Nothing else, nada, no detergents, no fertilizer, nothing except water from a hose receiving the same municipal water. As far as what the fish look like when I put them in. This does cause me some concern. When I first put the fish in, it appears as if something really irritates them. Most of the fish I have witnessed appear to intermittently dart around for about 2-3 min, and then appear to settle to the bottom in a upright (i.e. apparently resting) position. One of the goldfish that was first added, I found had actually jumped out of the pond. I put it back in, and it died within 10 mins. I have then witnessed several fish die within 10-20 min. I think this makes it clear that there is no other creature/critter involved in killing them. It further seems to support some toxin/strong irritant killing them. Upon dying, I have really not noticed any redness anywhere on the fish. They simply look completely normal except they are limp and dead. |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
Place a fish in the pond. If he dies scoop some water out of the pond and
place in a bowl. Next place fish #2 in the bowl. If he dies you rule out any type of power issue and rule in a chemical problem. If he doesn't die you rule out chemical problem and rule in power problem. Sam wrote in message ... please cross post as he really needs help. Ingrid (Timothy Tom) wrote: I have a 150 gallon outdoor pond. It was populated by 3 koi, and a small catfish for over a year and a half until the automatic refill was inadvertantly turned off. When it was turned back on the fish died the next day. I assumed it was from a large influx of chlorinated water. Anyway, I took the opportunity to totally clean out the pond including about a inch of sludge, and small rocks on the bottom. New water was added, dechlorinator/conditioning solution added, and the pond was left to circulate for 48 hours. New koi were added (after acclimation) and died within 1 hour. I changed the water 3 complete times, reconditioned the water, let it circulate for 1 week, added some comets which died within two hours. I changed the water again three times, let it circulate for 3 weeks, took a water sample to my local LFS. They told me that the ammonia was slightly high (but not deadly) pH, was about 8.1 (slightly high but not deadly). Basically they told me that they did not know why the fish died. Using the same tap water that the pond is refilled from, I placed some comets which lived for a week without problem in a bowl in my home. When placed the comets in the pond, after acclimation they died within a day. WHAT IS GOING ON? It appears that there is something quite toxic to fish in the fish pond. Still I have changed out the water multiple multiple times with no improvement. The toxic substance must be specific to the pond, since the tap water did not kill the fish in a fish bowl. The only things I have in the pond are two pumps (one is a new fountain pump (Beckett) and the other is the waterfall pump which has been there for two years without problem. The pumps are on GFI circuits so I don't think there could be a large short circuit. There are Lava type rocks in the pond which, once again were in there with the koi for over a year without problem. I did power wash the rocks prior to putting them back in the pond. The water temp is in the low 80's. The water is perfectly clear. Please any help appreciated since I am at a loss what to do next. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
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Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
"Andrew Burgess" wrote in message news:bh0er4 snip As I previously mentioned the ammonia level was tested by the LFS, who reported that is was a little high (I am afraid I dont remember the number or the units) but not deadly. Should be zero, of course. snip I have been thinking about this, but lurking out of fear of ignorance but...If the fish only last 10 minutes, how is ANY ammonia getting in there? I suspect the water filler system. Sam's idea of using a bowl of water from the pond is a good idea, to rule out electrical issues. BV. |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
BenignVanilla wrote:
"Andrew Burgess" wrote in message news:bh0er4 snip As I previously mentioned the ammonia level was tested by the LFS, who reported that is was a little high (I am afraid I dont remember the number or the units) but not deadly. Should be zero, of course. snip I have been thinking about this, but lurking out of fear of ignorance but...If the fish only last 10 minutes, how is ANY ammonia getting in there? You can get ammonia if the water company is using chloramine and you are using a normal dechlorinator. The dechlorinator strips the chlorine out, leaving ammonia. AmQuel is recommended in this situation... -Donald -- "There is nothing so strong as gentleness, and there is nothing so gentle as real strength." St. Francis de Sales |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
Andrew Burgess wrote in news:bh0er4$m4e$2
@athlon.cichlid.com: (Timothy Tom) writes: As far as the water parameters, recently the temp has been around 83 degrees. I missed the temperature posting, that does seem hot but when looked in the following discussion (http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/...057203893.html) they seemed to think that 90F for GF and 85F for shubunkins was OK. Whereas these guys (http://www.goldfishparadise.com/water/temperature.php) seem to think that 86F is the max. Did I read you correctly somewhere back in this thread in saying that the fish survive quite nicely when placed in a container with your tap water? I think we need to setup some form of checklist in order to tackle this problem systematically, but before we get to that. I have some questions: · How is your pond constructed? · What furniture does it have (rocks, plants, planters, waterfalls etc) · Between discovering that the auto-filler hand been turn off and turning it back on, what if anything did you do (filter cleaning, moving or changing plants)? · Where does the auto filler get its water from? I remember seeing somebody who had an automatic fill system that did not use tap water, it was connected to a tank/cistern that collected rain water (try to be environmentally friendly) they ran into a problem when the cistern became contaminated, I their case it was a dead animal I think. some ideas on testing to find problem, if anybody has a better one speak up. 1. Does a fish survive if placed in tap water (say from kitchen tap)? a. If yes go on to (2). b. If no you have a domestic water problem (too much chlorine, municipality using something other than chlorine, contamination of your water supply) 2. Does a fish survive if placed in water drawn from the auto-filler (water is put directly into same container use in (1)? a. If yes, then the problem would seem to be with the pond and its fitting/landscaping. b. If no, then the auto-filler seems to introducing some form of contamination. 3. Fill the pond from some source other than the auto-filler, suggest same source as in one. Let it stand for 48 hours. Does a fish survive if placed in a container of water taken from the pond? This test would confirm test 2. a. Yes, the problem is definitely with the auto-filler. b. No, both pond and auto-filler are the problem. It maybe that the pond and its furniture have been contaminated by the auto-filler. My suggestion at this point would be to remove all pond furniture and clean the pond using the water source in (1). DO NOT put the pond furniture back, refill it using water source as in (1) and try this test again. If the fish survive this time its some part of the furniture. You could try cleaning each piece and hope that you've got rid of the offending material, but I would be inclined to dump them and start with new stuff. Hope this helps. Axolotl |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
On Fri, 8 Aug 2003 15:15:48 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Burgess
wrote: (Timothy Tom) writes: As far as the water parameters, recently the temp has been around 83 degrees. I've never seen my pond that hot. Since no one else has commented I suppose you hot weather folks see this all the time with no problems? Otherwise, I'd shade it until it dropped 10 degrees and try again. As I previously mentioned the ammonia level was tested by the LFS, who reported that is was a little high (I am afraid I dont remember the number or the units) but not deadly. Should be zero, of course. The fact that this pond and all equipment, and rocks in it supported fish successfully for the past two years, is what is so confusing and frustrating for me. I will try to test for some of the other parameter mentioned. For the water temperature, is the shading any different? My pond stays 10 degrees cooler being shaded in the afternoon and i am one of those hot weather folks in Texas. |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
I just reread your initial post and while I am not up on all of the
technical pond stuff, I just tried to think logically and this is my 2 cents worth (may be only worth a penny!) Theory 1: I am wondering if it could be some contamination (bacterial) of the pump units themselves, which occurred within the initial time when the self filling unit was off or turned back on again. (The initial problem with the refill unit may have been what killed the first fish and then the continuing contamination could have taken the rest). I have read that you cleaned everything, however I didn't see where you said you cleaned the pumps. Have you taken the pumps out and cleaned them and also looked to see if there is anything lodged in them? If not, these units may be recontaminating the water each time you refill. To see if this is the problem, you could put water in a bucket, treat with declor etc, add fish. If fish is ok, WITHOUT CLEANING THE PUMP add it to the bucket with the same water and fish still in there (do not plug it in or turn it on which does away with electrical issues) and see what happens. You may want to use a battery powered air stone in this test from the beginning to eliminate oxygen deprivation as an added problem since the time frame will be fairly long. If fish dies, remove pump and clean and retest, starting with the water and fish only to make sure fish is OK. Then again add the now cleaned pump, if fish dies clean it again and retest or replace it. In your last test when you did not have any electrical items turned on, were the pumps still in the pond even thou not turned on? Did you have them circulate the water before turning off? If so, above contamination theory may be possible. It seemed to me in the last test you posted, it took the fish a little longer to die and that may have been (if my scenario is on target) if the pumps were off, could be the bacteria was not circulated and that could slow the process of death. However in this instance it could also have been lack of oxygen. If you redo this test with or without the pumps, add a battery operated air stone to do away with the possibility of oxygen deprivation. Theory 2: Fish, have all of your test fish come from the same source, perhaps the fish themselves are the problem. If so, try a new source of test fish to see if that is the case. Of course you realize we are all grasping at straws at this time, especially me without experience here. Anyway that's my penny's worth… Sue W wrote in message ... (Timothy Tom) wrote: UPDATE The pond water was changed (for about the 8th time). All rocks were removed. A dechlorinator and chloramine remover was added. The water was mixed and sat overnight. A goldfish was acclimated (sat in bag in pond 1 hour, followed by adding approx. 1/2 cup pond water to bag, followed by a cup in 45 min, followed by release into pond 30 min later. NO electrical devices plugged in. FISH DEAD IN TWO HOURS. I am now totally at a loss. The only possible variables not controlled now is the liner in the pond, the pumps leaching some toxic substance, or the temp in the pond being too hot. As mentioned earlier the same tap water was used to keep goldfish alive in a gallon container for a week. |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
yep, that is very suspicious. Ingrid
"Lee Brouillet" wrote: Because the fish lived in the same water in the house, but died when placed in the pond, it leads me to believe some of the simple things --- , fish stress in the bag (ammonia? heat from the sun?) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
Most posters appear to be focusing in on the auto-refill system.
Although I find it hard to understand how some type of toxic substance could get in and persist in there after so much water has gone through the system, I will try some of the suggestions on testing this (i.e. filling the pond with tap water from another source, and testing goldfish in a bowl filled with auto-refill water). Once again the auto-refill comes off an outside hose water outlet (supplied by the city water supply). Thanks, Timothy |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
(Timothy Tom) wrote in message . com...
Most posters appear to be focusing in on the auto-refill system. Although I find it hard to understand how some type of toxic substance could get in and persist in there after so much water has gone through the system, I will try some of the suggestions on testing this (i.e. filling the pond with tap water from another source, and testing goldfish in a bowl filled with auto-refill water). Once again the auto-refill comes off an outside hose water outlet (supplied by the city water supply). Thanks, Timothy Timothy, Would you be interested in testing a new pond water filter that we are developing? It screws onto the end of your hose, and removes all the toxins (metals, chlorine, chloramine, etc.)? Let me know, we're looking for some user feedback. You can contact me at Good luck either way, Thanks, Brett |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
Brett,
Is this new filter system be a charcoal cartridge or other consumable filter system? If so, I would highly recommend the use of a chlorine test kit, before, during and after each use. My BIL was using a home water purifier, charcoal based, and it was not that old, when he killed one fish, had two seriously distressed fish. When we tested for chlorine, the tap water was swimming pool safe. -- RichToyBox http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html "Brett Fogle" wrote in message om... (Timothy Tom) wrote in message . com... Most posters appear to be focusing in on the auto-refill system. Although I find it hard to understand how some type of toxic substance could get in and persist in there after so much water has gone through the system, I will try some of the suggestions on testing this (i.e. filling the pond with tap water from another source, and testing goldfish in a bowl filled with auto-refill water). Once again the auto-refill comes off an outside hose water outlet (supplied by the city water supply). Thanks, Timothy Timothy, Would you be interested in testing a new pond water filter that we are developing? It screws onto the end of your hose, and removes all the toxins (metals, chlorine, chloramine, etc.)? Let me know, we're looking for some user feedback. You can contact me at Good luck either way, Thanks, Brett |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
Brett,
Is this new filter system be a charcoal cartridge or other consumable filter system? If so, I would highly recommend the use of a chlorine test kit, before, during and after each use. My BIL was using a home water purifier, charcoal based, and it was not that old, when he killed one fish, had two seriously distressed fish. When we tested for chlorine, the tap water was swimming pool safe. -- RichToyBox http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html "Brett Fogle" wrote in message om... (Timothy Tom) wrote in message . com... Most posters appear to be focusing in on the auto-refill system. Although I find it hard to understand how some type of toxic substance could get in and persist in there after so much water has gone through the system, I will try some of the suggestions on testing this (i.e. filling the pond with tap water from another source, and testing goldfish in a bowl filled with auto-refill water). Once again the auto-refill comes off an outside hose water outlet (supplied by the city water supply). Thanks, Timothy Timothy, Would you be interested in testing a new pond water filter that we are developing? It screws onto the end of your hose, and removes all the toxins (metals, chlorine, chloramine, etc.)? Let me know, we're looking for some user feedback. You can contact me at Good luck either way, Thanks, Brett |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
Brett,
Is this new filter system be a charcoal cartridge or other consumable filter system? If so, I would highly recommend the use of a chlorine test kit, before, during and after each use. My BIL was using a home water purifier, charcoal based, and it was not that old, when he killed one fish, had two seriously distressed fish. When we tested for chlorine, the tap water was swimming pool safe. -- RichToyBox http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html "Brett Fogle" wrote in message om... (Timothy Tom) wrote in message . com... Most posters appear to be focusing in on the auto-refill system. Although I find it hard to understand how some type of toxic substance could get in and persist in there after so much water has gone through the system, I will try some of the suggestions on testing this (i.e. filling the pond with tap water from another source, and testing goldfish in a bowl filled with auto-refill water). Once again the auto-refill comes off an outside hose water outlet (supplied by the city water supply). Thanks, Timothy Timothy, Would you be interested in testing a new pond water filter that we are developing? It screws onto the end of your hose, and removes all the toxins (metals, chlorine, chloramine, etc.)? Let me know, we're looking for some user feedback. You can contact me at Good luck either way, Thanks, Brett |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
Brett,
Is this new filter system be a charcoal cartridge or other consumable filter system? If so, I would highly recommend the use of a chlorine test kit, before, during and after each use. My BIL was using a home water purifier, charcoal based, and it was not that old, when he killed one fish, had two seriously distressed fish. When we tested for chlorine, the tap water was swimming pool safe. -- RichToyBox http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html "Brett Fogle" wrote in message om... (Timothy Tom) wrote in message . com... Most posters appear to be focusing in on the auto-refill system. Although I find it hard to understand how some type of toxic substance could get in and persist in there after so much water has gone through the system, I will try some of the suggestions on testing this (i.e. filling the pond with tap water from another source, and testing goldfish in a bowl filled with auto-refill water). Once again the auto-refill comes off an outside hose water outlet (supplied by the city water supply). Thanks, Timothy Timothy, Would you be interested in testing a new pond water filter that we are developing? It screws onto the end of your hose, and removes all the toxins (metals, chlorine, chloramine, etc.)? Let me know, we're looking for some user feedback. You can contact me at Good luck either way, Thanks, Brett |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
Brett,
Is this new filter system be a charcoal cartridge or other consumable filter system? If so, I would highly recommend the use of a chlorine test kit, before, during and after each use. My BIL was using a home water purifier, charcoal based, and it was not that old, when he killed one fish, had two seriously distressed fish. When we tested for chlorine, the tap water was swimming pool safe. -- RichToyBox http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html "Brett Fogle" wrote in message om... (Timothy Tom) wrote in message . com... Most posters appear to be focusing in on the auto-refill system. Although I find it hard to understand how some type of toxic substance could get in and persist in there after so much water has gone through the system, I will try some of the suggestions on testing this (i.e. filling the pond with tap water from another source, and testing goldfish in a bowl filled with auto-refill water). Once again the auto-refill comes off an outside hose water outlet (supplied by the city water supply). Thanks, Timothy Timothy, Would you be interested in testing a new pond water filter that we are developing? It screws onto the end of your hose, and removes all the toxins (metals, chlorine, chloramine, etc.)? Let me know, we're looking for some user feedback. You can contact me at Good luck either way, Thanks, Brett |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
brett
Timothy, Would you be interested in testing a new pond water filter that we are developing? Tim, In MHO it would be foolish to add anything new until you have solved the original problem. Sue W |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
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Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
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Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
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Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
I agree.
"Andrew Burgess" wrote in message ... (Timothy Tom) writes: Anyway, today I plan to do the following test. I will get a bowl of water from the auto-refill outlet, and a bowl of water from the kitchen faucet (same source I used successfully to keep fish in a bowl for a week. Maybe also a bowl from the pond (and let it cool off)? |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
I am really thinking about giving up on keeping fish in this pond. I
bought 3 bags of ice, and placed them in a large trash bag to prevent leakage of water. The pond temperature came down to 83 degrees. The goldfish taken from the bowl from the auto refill system, alive for 24hrs, was acclimated to the pond temp and released in the pond. After release it looked fine. I watched it for about 10 mins, and once again it looked fine. After about 90 mins. I checked the pond again and found it floating. Unless someone tells me that 83 degree water can kill a goldfish within two hours, I have nothing else to test. I have no other theories. I have tested everything I can possibly test, and ruled out everything that can be ruled out. One of the last things I can do is take the pond water that just killed the fish and bring it in to the house to further decrease the temp. |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
Okay... How many gallons of water are in the pond?
How old is your test kit? What are the numbers for ammonia? What is the pH? NitrIte? Saying the ammonia " ...not great not likely to be able to be toxic to the fish" is a big clue. Makes me think you are missing something Very Crucial. Buy a new test for the above tests or a kit! Please get back to us on the ammonia and pH, etc. numbers. Nedra http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836 http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118 "Timothy Tom" wrote in message om... I am really thinking about giving up on keeping fish in this pond. I bought 3 bags of ice, and placed them in a large trash bag to prevent leakage of water. The pond temperature came down to 83 degrees. The goldfish taken from the bowl from the auto refill system, alive for 24hrs, was acclimated to the pond temp and released in the pond. After release it looked fine. I watched it for about 10 mins, and once again it looked fine. After about 90 mins. I checked the pond again and found it floating. Unless someone tells me that 83 degree water can kill a goldfish within two hours, I have nothing else to test. I have no other theories. I have tested everything I can possibly test, and ruled out everything that can be ruled out. One of the last things I can do is take the pond water that just killed the fish and bring it in to the house to further decrease the temp. |
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