Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
Timothy Tom wrote:
scale) using Salifert test kit, the total ammonia measured at between .25 and .5 PPM using a Tetra test kit. -- that amount of amonia is deadly if i remember correctley Naaa, .25 is the first number of most test kits. It sure wouldn't kill in 2 hrs, though sure would stress the fish after a few days. ~ jan See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
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Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
Followup UPDATE
The following test was done. One bowl of water from the Auto-refill system was collected in a plastic bowl, and a second bowl was filled with tap water from the kitchen faucet. Both bowls were treated with dechlorinator/conditioner (TetraAqua Aquasafe). Two goldfish per bowl were acclimated and released into the bowls. It is important to note that both bowls were kept in the house (Thermostat kept at 79 degrees during the day, and 84 degrees at night. RESULTS AFTER APPROXIMATELY 24 HRS. ALL GOLDFISH ALIVE. Well this rules out the auto-refill system as the culprit. I did remeasure the temperature of the pond water and found it to be 85 degrees. We are having a heat wave in South Texas. Could all my problems be as simply as the pond being too hot? Can 85 degree water kill goldfish in a couple of hours. I never saw the goldfish gulping air near the surface as I would expect if the temp were too hot, and the oxygen level too low in the pond. My next test will be to go get a couple bags of ice, and lower the temp of my pond to below 80 degrees and see if the goldfish make it through a few hours. As I mentioned in my earlier post, the pond did originally have 3 koi and a catfish in it for nearly two years, and I believe koi are more heat-tolerant than goldfish. At this point I have ruled out the following as culprits in killing the pond fish: 1) Municipal water supply (both from auto-refill and kitchen faucet water supported fish inside my house in a bowl) 2) Electical short-circuit/current leak (Fish died with all electrical devices unplugged/pond circuit is on GFI circuit, and any leak should switch the plug off anyway) 3) Rock in pond (Rock removed, and fish still died) 4)Chemicals, contaminants, poisons (After over ten complete water changes, if the water is still toxic then I have discovered a highly deadly biotoxin that probably should have killed my whole family by now. 5) Pond liner (Commercial pre-formed liner in use for over two years. 6) pH, Ammonia (tested and while not great, not likely to be able to be acutely toxic to fish. There is not a whole lot else to test now. |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
"MattO" writes:
"john rutz" wrote in message ... Timothy Tom wrote: TEST RESULTS of Deadly Pond Water: O.K. I tested the pond water which killed a goldfish within two hours. Please note that this water has been sitting there for over 48 hours, so it is not exactly the same water that killed the fish. The pH measured at 7.7 using Tetra test kit, the nitrate measured at perhaps 1 PPM (color between zero and the 2 PPM color on the color scale) using Salifert test kit, the total ammonia measured at between .25 and .5 PPM using a Tetra test kit. -- that amount of amonia is deadly if i remember correctley John Rutz Z5 New Mexico Tom, I don't buy the ammonia theory. 0.25 -0.5 ppm ammonia is not that severe, certainly not bad enought to kill so quickly. Ditto. I imagine some of that ammonia came from the dead fish itself anyway. |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
Deadly Residue/Algae?
O.K. I COMPLETELY emptied the water from the pond (Not a single drop left, pond completely dried). I did not find any leak. With the pond completely empty and dried, I walked around it and thoroughly examined it. The pond was emptied of all pumps, all rocks, everything. I did not feel any evidence of water under the pond liner, or any water leaking into the liner from outside. I noticed that there was some green algae-appearing material on about 50% of the pond walls, and some whiteish residue on about 25% of the pond wall surface. I got into the pond and scrubbed the walls completely. The pond was rinsed and the procedure was repeated twice (no soap just water and a brush). The pond was completely clean, no residue, no algae. You would need a magnifying glass to find any speck of anything on the liner. The pond was refilled, and treated with dechlorinator and a chloramine detoxifyer (Beckett product). A goldfish was acclimated and released. So far it looks good. Will update. Now I can truely say, I do not believe there is anything left to explain if the fish dies. |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
Trash bag???
[Sorry, I'd been having trouble keeping with all the volume here, so I missed that part.] Timothy, when you you use an ice-filled trash bag to cool down your pond? Before the original fish-dying problem, or well after that? If you put the trash bag in the pond after the original problem, then disregard the rest of my post. Trash bags are (I think) made of recycled low-density polyethylene (LDPE), which should not in itself cause a problem. However, I thought I read that somewhere that trash bags are actually coated on the outside with a powder of some sort, either to facilitate the manufacturing process and/or to make it possible for us consumers to get the bags off a roll -- especially if you use the kind I do that don't need to be torn off a roll. I guess maybe I spent too much time watching Industry on Parade on TV when I was a kid; also, my dad was a plastics engineer, so I tend to think along strange lines sometimes. OTOH, I can also tell you why aluminum foil is shiny on 1 side & dull on the other (or at least I heard a reasonable explanation). Anne Lurie Raleigh, NC "Timothy Tom" wrote in message om... Another update: A bowl of pond water which had just done in a goldfish was taken inside the house and allowed to equilibrate to the same temp as the other bowl of water containing kitchen faucet water. I was concerned that the elevated temp of the outside pond water was responsible for killing fish. I took one of the goldfish that had been living in the kitchen faucet water for over 24hrs, and placed it in the temp-equilibrated pond water. I stayed up for a couple of hours, and although the fish had not died, it was clearly not doing well when I went to bed. It was dead in the morning, while the fish in the bowl with kitchen faucet water were fine. After all the tests and dead goldfish, I believe that I have determined a possible cause. When adding a large trash bag filled with ice to cool the pond, I caused considerable waves in the pond. I noticed that there was a small puddle next to the pond which moved in sync with the pond water disturbance. I believe that there is a leak in the pond somewhere (difficult to tell with this black preformed liner) which is in equilibrium with water which has collected under the pond. The water under the pond must have some toxic substance in it which is contaminating the pond. This conclusion makes sense to me since water taken directly from the auto-refill does not kill fish, but water coming from the auto-refill system into a freshly cleaned pond liner does quickly kill fish. As far as the pond size, I believe I was incorrect in my original posting that the pond is about 150 gallons. A landscaper installed the pond, so I don't have the documentation on it. I went to the pond liner manufacturer site and I believe I found the liner that matches our shape and it is 250 gallons. I plan to completely empty the pond to dryness, and thoroughly inspect the pond liner to see if I can find any leaks. |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
Well right on schedule, within two hours the fish is just about dead.
Something new that I have noticed is that the auto-refill appears to never shut off. My LAST POSSIBLE explanation is that the auto-refill continues to allow chlorinated water to flow into the pond which kills the fish within a couple of hours. This last time, I am going to empty the pond, and refill it partially and then turn the auto-refill system off. |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
Well right on schedule, within two hours the fish is just about dead.
Something new that I have noticed is that the auto-refill appears to never shut off. My LAST POSSIBLE explanation is that the auto-refill continues to allow chlorinated water to flow into the pond which kills the fish within a couple of hours. This last time, I am going to empty the pond, and refill it partially and then turn the auto-refill system off. |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
This a mystery wrapped up inside of an enigma! Hope the leaking auto fill is the final answer. We'll be waiting in pins and needles to find out! k30a and the watergardening labradors http://www.geocities.com/watergarden...dors/home.html |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
EUREKA!!!! IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW!!!
Approximately a year ago we had a wasp problem in the sunroom window which is right next to the pond. I sprayed loads of wasp killer spray onto the window, and it dripped down onto the soil (directly next to the pond) I was very careful not to get the spray into the pond, but I distinctly remember the wasp spray dripping down onto the plants and the soil next to the pond since I remember the wasp spray states that it is extremely toxic to aquatic life. Well anyway nothing happened to the fish (until this recent problem). When the autorefill got inadvertantly turned off and then back on, the autorefill apparently malfunctioned so that the valve does not completely turn off water flow into the pond. The pond continually is filled and overfills to the point where water can flow out the pond bulkheads carrying the waterfall tubing and electrical cords directly to the area where the wasp spray landed. Therefore there is communication between the pond water and the area where the wasp spray landed. I have emptied and washed the pond again, and will refill, and turn off the water before it reaches the pond bulkheads. I think I have found the answer. Thanks for all the input and info! |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
|
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
Hallelujah !!!! ~~~~ Nedra
"Timothy Tom" wrote in message om... EUREKA!!!! IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW!!! Approximately a year ago we had a wasp problem in the sunroom window which is right next to the pond. I sprayed loads of wasp killer spray onto the window, and it dripped down onto the soil (directly next to the pond) I was very careful not to get the spray into the pond, but I distinctly remember the wasp spray dripping down onto the plants and the soil next to the pond since I remember the wasp spray states that it is extremely toxic to aquatic life. Well anyway nothing happened to the fish (until this recent problem). When the autorefill got inadvertantly turned off and then back on, the autorefill apparently malfunctioned so that the valve does not completely turn off water flow into the pond. The pond continually is filled and overfills to the point where water can flow out the pond bulkheads carrying the waterfall tubing and electrical cords directly to the area where the wasp spray landed. Therefore there is communication between the pond water and the area where the wasp spray landed. I have emptied and washed the pond again, and will refill, and turn off the water before it reaches the pond bulkheads. I think I have found the answer. Thanks for all the input and info! |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
EUREKA!!!!
:-) hope this is the answer! k30a and the watergardening labradors http://www.geocities.com/watergarden...dors/home.html |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
I'm glad to hear that the fish-killing problem has been identified.
However, IMHO, the next step would be to deal with the pesticide-contaminated soil. Stepping down from my soap box for tonight, [sorry, it's been a tough week for me -- started with blaster worm & ended with blackout-stranded relatives I was unable to reach because of blackout, etc.] G'night all, Anne Lurie Raleigh, NC "Timothy Tom" wrote in message om... EUREKA!!!! IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW!!! Approximately a year ago we had a wasp problem in the sunroom window which is right next to the pond. I sprayed loads of wasp killer spray onto the window, and it dripped down onto the soil (directly next to the pond) I was very careful not to get the spray into the pond, but I distinctly remember the wasp spray dripping down onto the plants and the soil next to the pond since I remember the wasp spray states that it is extremely toxic to aquatic life. Well anyway nothing happened to the fish (until this recent problem). When the autorefill got inadvertantly turned off and then back on, the autorefill apparently malfunctioned so that the valve does not completely turn off water flow into the pond. The pond continually is filled and overfills to the point where water can flow out the pond bulkheads carrying the waterfall tubing and electrical cords directly to the area where the wasp spray landed. Therefore there is communication between the pond water and the area where the wasp spray landed. I have emptied and washed the pond again, and will refill, and turn off the water before it reaches the pond bulkheads. I think I have found the answer. Thanks for all the input and info! |
Fish pond water kills all fish within 24 hours.
Just a quote from the Newsgroups regarding the active ingredient in
Wasp spray and fish toxicity. By the way, the goldfish has survived over 6 hours in the pond, well past the normal "death time" of two hours, so I believe the residual wasp spray is the culprit. Interestingly the poster quoted below says the active ingredient does not persist in the environment very long. Almost nothing more toxic to fish than pyrethroids, the type of poison in wasp spray. Some pyrethroids are so toxic to fish that the amount needed to kill the fish cannot be measured in the water (part per trillion). Check the label, if it says something like "resmethrin, permethrin, tetramethrin, or any other -methrin", keep it far away from the fish pond. We spray wasps out in the lake with soap. Doesn't work very fast, but it works. For koi ponds, something like malathion or Dylox will kill the wasps, but also not quickly. Those are not very toxic to fish. Even rotenone (commonly used to kill fish) is not very toxic to fish, takes a lot to kill them. You might try orthene, smells bad, but not very toxic to fish, also not fast at killing wasps. Pyrethroids work very fast, are not very toxic to mammals, do not persist in the environment, and are fairly "safe" as such things go, just not for fish. |
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