We just spent all summer building a 10,000 gallon pond which is 5'
deep (3' underground, 2' above). We can't decide between a $30
floating de-icer and a $1,000 propane heater. If the cost to run the
propane heater is cheaper than the electricity cost for the floater,
we'll go for the propane heater. Does anyone know the relative costs
of these two types of heaters? Also, which is better for the koi?
Finally, if anyone has used a propane heater to keep the entire pond
ice-free for the winter, which one do you recommend.
Any input is much appreciated.
Dennis

To find out how much they cost to run you'll need to find out how many BTU's
are in a propane tank. That's easy, just search google or post to
misc.rural. Then find out how many BTU's the heater puts out. Then find out
how much propane costs. For the heater find out the watts and find out how
much you pay per watt.

"Dennis" wrote in message
m...
We just spent all summer building a 10,000 gallon pond which is 5'
deep (3' underground, 2' above). We can't decide between a $30
floating de-icer and a $1,000 propane heater. If the cost to run the
propane heater is cheaper than the electricity cost for the floater,
we'll go for the propane heater. Does anyone know the relative costs
of these two types of heaters? Also, which is better for the koi?
Finally, if anyone has used a propane heater to keep the entire pond
ice-free for the winter, which one do you recommend.
Any input is much appreciated.
Dennis

Dennis wrote:

We just spent all summer building a 10,000 gallon pond which is 5'
deep (3' underground, 2' above). We can't decide between a $30
floating de-icer and a $1,000 propane heater. If the cost to run the
propane heater is cheaper than the electricity cost for the floater,
we'll go for the propane heater. Does anyone know the relative costs
of these two types of heaters? Also, which is better for the koi?
Finally, if anyone has used a propane heater to keep the entire pond
ice-free for the winter, which one do you recommend.
Any input is much appreciated.
Dennis


Dennis,

It depends on where you live.

My 10' by 15' pond in Minnesota (zone 5b) is nearly three feet deep in
the middle and is about 1700 gallons. I use a $30 de-icer to keep a 12
inch hole open during the winter. The cost varies with the amount of
snowfall and how cold it gets. The last couple of winters have been
fairly mild and the 1200 watt de-icer costs about the same to run as my
700 watt pump (running only 16 hours per day).

The de-icer turns on at 32 degrees and off at 34. Two feet of snow is a
great insulator so it doesn't run all the time. If temperatures drop to
-30 and the snow doesn't fly it has to work harder. Some people use air
pumps, but I don't think that would work for me.

Your pond is much larger in volume so a single 12 inch hole may not be
enough area for a good gas exchange. The number and size of fish
matters too. I only have about 15 three to six inch goldfish (plus
babies) to support. I usually lose a few each year.

I'm not familiar with propane rigs, but for $1000 it must have a
thermostat, otherwise it would be running all the time. I would think
you'd be using alot of propane.

To avoid winter-kill in a local pond (56 acres) my city runs a firehose
sized pump at the surface to keep a hole open. You may want to try
something like this on a smaller scale.

What are your winters like?

dss

Doug and Sam...THANKS for input..I'm in upstate NY, about 60 miles
North of NYC...worst temp about -10 I would say (rarely, mostly +5 to
30 degrees)...I will check out BTU's...by snowfall, I will have about
50 Koi, from 12-26 inches (very few over 20")...I'm thinking it may be
worth the investment in propane just to get to enjoy the Koi all
winter (especially since we spent the whole summer under
construction!)


Doug Swetland wrote in message ...
Dennis wrote:

We just spent all summer building a 10,000 gallon pond which is 5'
deep (3' underground, 2' above). We can't decide between a $30
floating de-icer and a $1,000 propane heater. If the cost to run the
propane heater is cheaper than the electricity cost for the floater,
we'll go for the propane heater. Does anyone know the relative costs
of these two types of heaters? Also, which is better for the koi?
Finally, if anyone has used a propane heater to keep the entire pond
ice-free for the winter, which one do you recommend.
Any input is much appreciated.
Dennis


Dennis,

It depends on where you live.

My 10' by 15' pond in Minnesota (zone 5b) is nearly three feet deep in
the middle and is about 1700 gallons. I use a $30 de-icer to keep a 12
inch hole open during the winter. The cost varies with the amount of
snowfall and how cold it gets. The last couple of winters have been
fairly mild and the 1200 watt de-icer costs about the same to run as my
700 watt pump (running only 16 hours per day).

The de-icer turns on at 32 degrees and off at 34. Two feet of snow is a
great insulator so it doesn't run all the time. If temperatures drop to
-30 and the snow doesn't fly it has to work harder. Some people use air
pumps, but I don't think that would work for me.

Your pond is much larger in volume so a single 12 inch hole may not be
enough area for a good gas exchange. The number and size of fish
matters too. I only have about 15 three to six inch goldfish (plus
babies) to support. I usually lose a few each year.

I'm not familiar with propane rigs, but for $1000 it must have a
thermostat, otherwise it would be running all the time. I would think
you'd be using alot of propane.

To avoid winter-kill in a local pond (56 acres) my city runs a firehose
sized pump at the surface to keep a hole open. You may want to try
something like this on a smaller scale.

What are your winters like?

dss

If you are thinking of heating the pond, I would highly recommend putting a
cover over the pond. It can be a lean-to, as I use, or a PVC hoop house
that some others have used. The cover will provide some free solar heat,
will limit wind chill caused by evaporation, will allow much reduced heat
bills. I would also keep the temperature either below 50 or above 60, since
that area in between is the temperature that seems to cause the most sick
fish. The immune system is shut down, but the bugs aren't.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"Dennis" wrote in message
m...
Doug and Sam...THANKS for input..I'm in upstate NY, about 60 miles
North of NYC...worst temp about -10 I would say (rarely, mostly +5 to
30 degrees)...I will check out BTU's...by snowfall, I will have about
50 Koi, from 12-26 inches (very few over 20")...I'm thinking it may be
worth the investment in propane just to get to enjoy the Koi all
winter (especially since we spent the whole summer under
construction!)


Doug Swetland wrote in message
...
Dennis wrote:

We just spent all summer building a 10,000 gallon pond which is 5'
deep (3' underground, 2' above). We can't decide between a $30
floating de-icer and a $1,000 propane heater. If the cost to run the
propane heater is cheaper than the electricity cost for the floater,
we'll go for the propane heater. Does anyone know the relative costs
of these two types of heaters? Also, which is better for the koi?
Finally, if anyone has used a propane heater to keep the entire pond
ice-free for the winter, which one do you recommend.
Any input is much appreciated.
Dennis


Dennis,

It depends on where you live.

My 10' by 15' pond in Minnesota (zone 5b) is nearly three feet deep in
the middle and is about 1700 gallons. I use a $30 de-icer to keep a 12
inch hole open during the winter. The cost varies with the amount of
snowfall and how cold it gets. The last couple of winters have been
fairly mild and the 1200 watt de-icer costs about the same to run as my
700 watt pump (running only 16 hours per day).

The de-icer turns on at 32 degrees and off at 34. Two feet of snow is a
great insulator so it doesn't run all the time. If temperatures drop to
-30 and the snow doesn't fly it has to work harder. Some people use air
pumps, but I don't think that would work for me.

Your pond is much larger in volume so a single 12 inch hole may not be
enough area for a good gas exchange. The number and size of fish
matters too. I only have about 15 three to six inch goldfish (plus
babies) to support. I usually lose a few each year.

I'm not familiar with propane rigs, but for $1000 it must have a
thermostat, otherwise it would be running all the time. I would think
you'd be using alot of propane.

To avoid winter-kill in a local pond (56 acres) my city runs a firehose
sized pump at the surface to keep a hole open. You may want to try
something like this on a smaller scale.

What are your winters like?

dss

Dennis,

I live in the suburbs of Boston which probably gets as cold as where you
are. Have you checked the price of propane lately? We have a propane heated
swimming pool -- 33000 gallons. During the cool (low 70s) weather, it costs
hundreds in propane to keep the pool heated to a swimmable temperature (i.e.
10 degree differential). I can't imagine that the cost of running a small
electric heating element will cost anything like what it will cost you for
propane.

MSK


"Dennis" wrote in message
m...
We just spent all summer building a 10,000 gallon pond which is 5'
deep (3' underground, 2' above). We can't decide between a $30
floating de-icer and a $1,000 propane heater. If the cost to run the
propane heater is cheaper than the electricity cost for the floater,
we'll go for the propane heater. Does anyone know the relative costs
of these two types of heaters? Also, which is better for the koi?
Finally, if anyone has used a propane heater to keep the entire pond
ice-free for the winter, which one do you recommend.
Any input is much appreciated.
Dennis

Dennis,

I live in the suburbs of Boston which probably gets as cold as where you
are. Have you checked the price of propane lately? We have a propane heated
swimming pool -- 33000 gallons. During the cool (low 70s) weather, it costs
hundreds in propane to keep the pool heated to a swimmable temperature (i.e.
10 degree differential). I can't imagine that the cost of running a small
electric heating element will cost anything like what it will cost you for
propane.

MSK


"Dennis" wrote in message
m...
We just spent all summer building a 10,000 gallon pond which is 5'
deep (3' underground, 2' above). We can't decide between a $30
floating de-icer and a $1,000 propane heater. If the cost to run the
propane heater is cheaper than the electricity cost for the floater,
we'll go for the propane heater. Does anyone know the relative costs
of these two types of heaters? Also, which is better for the koi?
Finally, if anyone has used a propane heater to keep the entire pond
ice-free for the winter, which one do you recommend.
Any input is much appreciated.
Dennis

When you buy a heater just check the wattage, they are very low now and
don't cost any more then running a small lamp all winter.


Remydog wrote in message
news:T5b8b.320645$cF.97830@rwcrnsc53...
Dennis,

I live in the suburbs of Boston which probably gets as cold as where you
are. Have you checked the price of propane lately? We have a propane
heated
swimming pool -- 33000 gallons. During the cool (low 70s) weather, it
costs
hundreds in propane to keep the pool heated to a swimmable temperature
(i.e.
10 degree differential). I can't imagine that the cost of running a small
electric heating element will cost anything like what it will cost you for
propane.

MSK


"Dennis" wrote in message
m...
We just spent all summer building a 10,000 gallon pond which is 5'
deep (3' underground, 2' above). We can't decide between a $30
floating de-icer and a $1,000 propane heater. If the cost to run the
propane heater is cheaper than the electricity cost for the floater,
we'll go for the propane heater. Does anyone know the relative costs
of these two types of heaters? Also, which is better for the koi?
Finally, if anyone has used a propane heater to keep the entire pond
ice-free for the winter, which one do you recommend.
Any input is much appreciated.
Dennis