We are planning to build a new waterfall on our 1600 gallon pond using
flagstone and we are looking for some tips as to what types of mortar are
safe for fish,plants etc, also would like any help in what type of
construction anyone has used when working with flagstone. Thanks in advance
--
The Courages

There are two main types of materials used for mortaring or grouting stones
on waterfalls and streams that seem to work. One is a foam called Great
Stuff, which is injected between the stones after they have been dry
stacked. It expands and will bubble out of the joint area, but it is easily
cut with a knife to get the shape that you would like. It is a yellowish
color, but can be darkened by burning the surface with a torch, smearing
with soil, or applying dyes. They make a black foam also, but it is much
more expensive. These foams are flexible and allow some movement of the
soil without losing integrity.

The other is a Portland cement mortar or grout. I would stay away from
masonry mortar, since it has slaked lime added to make it more buttery, but
the lime has a pH of about 13, so it will affect the pH of the pond
significantly. A regular Portland cement mortar will also generate some
hydrated lime as a byproduct of the chemical reaction that makes it harden.
Allow the mortar to cure for about a month, and if there is only small
amounts in contact with the water, you shouldn't have to worry. If there is
a large amount of mortar present, you need to monitor the pH and possibly do
water changes due to the pH climbing too high. Portland cement mortars are
rigid and will crack due to shifting of the soil, or freeze thaw action.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"Norm Courage" wrote in message
ble.rogers.com...

We are planning to build a new waterfall on our 1600 gallon pond using
flagstone and we are looking for some tips as to what types of mortar are
safe for fish,plants etc, also would like any help in what type of
construction anyone has used when working with flagstone. Thanks in
advance
--
The Courages

Thanks for the information, I have used Great Stuff around the house of the
years, is there any concerns health wise using it on the waterfall as far as
Koi and plants are concerned ? or is it safe after it has cured ?

Regards
"RichToyBox" wrote in message
news:nnu7b.404297$YN5.267845@sccrnsc01...
There are two main types of materials used for mortaring or grouting
stones
on waterfalls and streams that seem to work. One is a foam called Great
Stuff, which is injected between the stones after they have been dry
stacked. It expands and will bubble out of the joint area, but it is
easily
cut with a knife to get the shape that you would like. It is a yellowish
color, but can be darkened by burning the surface with a torch, smearing
with soil, or applying dyes. They make a black foam also, but it is much
more expensive. These foams are flexible and allow some movement of the
soil without losing integrity.

The other is a Portland cement mortar or grout. I would stay away from
masonry mortar, since it has slaked lime added to make it more buttery,
but
the lime has a pH of about 13, so it will affect the pH of the pond
significantly. A regular Portland cement mortar will also generate some
hydrated lime as a byproduct of the chemical reaction that makes it
harden.
Allow the mortar to cure for about a month, and if there is only small
amounts in contact with the water, you shouldn't have to worry. If there
is
a large amount of mortar present, you need to monitor the pH and possibly
do
water changes due to the pH climbing too high. Portland cement mortars
are
rigid and will crack due to shifting of the soil, or freeze thaw action.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"Norm Courage" wrote in message
ble.rogers.com...

We are planning to build a new waterfall on our 1600 gallon pond using
flagstone and we are looking for some tips as to what types of mortar
are
safe for fish,plants etc, also would like any help in what type of
construction anyone has used when working with flagstone. Thanks in
advance
--
The Courages

"RichToyBox" wrote in message
news:nnu7b.404297$YN5.267845@sccrnsc01...
There are two main types of materials used for mortaring or grouting
stones
on waterfalls and streams that seem to work. One is a foam called Great
Stuff, which is injected between the stones after they have been dry
stacked. It expands and will bubble out of the joint area, but it is
easily
cut with a knife to get the shape that you would like. It is a yellowish
color, but can be darkened by burning the surface with a torch, smearing
with soil, or applying dyes. They make a black foam also, but it is much
more expensive. These foams are flexible and allow some movement of the
soil without losing integrity.


Has anyone tried to just paint the foam with black latex house paint? That
should be waterproof, and is water washup for you brushes.

I'm sure you could use regular acrylic paint, but I'd think latex house
paint would last longer in the elements...


--
Gareee©
Homepage:
http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine.../mainframe.htm
Custom Figures, Wallpapers and more!

I have tried latex paint on other things in the pond. Didn't hold up very
well under water. I've heard of others sprinkling dry sand or small pebbles
onto the foam while it's still sticky.
I used Great Stuff when I built my waterfall and just left it exposed. It
looked pretty bad for a short while, but sunlight quickly darkened it and
algae and moss have completly covered it over, can't see the foam at all
now!

Paul

Once cured it is safe for use in and around the pond. The stuff sticks to
anything while fresh, meaning you, your clothes, the rocks, the liner. Wear
disposable clothes, you will get it on your hands, and reach for something
in your pocket, and end up with disposable clothes if you didn't start out
in disposables.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"Norm Courage" wrote in message
le.rogers.com...
Thanks for the information, I have used Great Stuff around the house of
the
years, is there any concerns health wise using it on the waterfall as far
as
Koi and plants are concerned ? or is it safe after it has cured ?

Regards
"RichToyBox" wrote in message
news:nnu7b.404297$YN5.267845@sccrnsc01...
There are two main types of materials used for mortaring or grouting
stones
on waterfalls and streams that seem to work. One is a foam called Great
Stuff, which is injected between the stones after they have been dry
stacked. It expands and will bubble out of the joint area, but it is
easily
cut with a knife to get the shape that you would like. It is a
yellowish
color, but can be darkened by burning the surface with a torch, smearing
with soil, or applying dyes. They make a black foam also, but it is
much
more expensive. These foams are flexible and allow some movement of the
soil without losing integrity.

The other is a Portland cement mortar or grout. I would stay away from
masonry mortar, since it has slaked lime added to make it more buttery,
but
the lime has a pH of about 13, so it will affect the pH of the pond
significantly. A regular Portland cement mortar will also generate some
hydrated lime as a byproduct of the chemical reaction that makes it
harden.
Allow the mortar to cure for about a month, and if there is only small
amounts in contact with the water, you shouldn't have to worry. If
there
is
a large amount of mortar present, you need to monitor the pH and
possibly
do
water changes due to the pH climbing too high. Portland cement mortars
are
rigid and will crack due to shifting of the soil, or freeze thaw action.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"Norm Courage" wrote in message
ble.rogers.com...

We are planning to build a new waterfall on our 1600 gallon pond using
flagstone and we are looking for some tips as to what types of mortar
are
safe for fish,plants etc, also would like any help in what type of
construction anyone has used when working with flagstone. Thanks in
advance
--
The Courages

Once cured it is safe for use in and around the pond. The stuff sticks to
anything while fresh, meaning you, your clothes, the rocks, the liner. Wear
disposable clothes, you will get it on your hands, and reach for something
in your pocket, and end up with disposable clothes if you didn't start out
in disposables.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"Norm Courage" wrote in message
le.rogers.com...
Thanks for the information, I have used Great Stuff around the house of
the
years, is there any concerns health wise using it on the waterfall as far
as
Koi and plants are concerned ? or is it safe after it has cured ?

Regards
"RichToyBox" wrote in message
news:nnu7b.404297$YN5.267845@sccrnsc01...
There are two main types of materials used for mortaring or grouting
stones
on waterfalls and streams that seem to work. One is a foam called Great
Stuff, which is injected between the stones after they have been dry
stacked. It expands and will bubble out of the joint area, but it is
easily
cut with a knife to get the shape that you would like. It is a
yellowish
color, but can be darkened by burning the surface with a torch, smearing
with soil, or applying dyes. They make a black foam also, but it is
much
more expensive. These foams are flexible and allow some movement of the
soil without losing integrity.

The other is a Portland cement mortar or grout. I would stay away from
masonry mortar, since it has slaked lime added to make it more buttery,
but
the lime has a pH of about 13, so it will affect the pH of the pond
significantly. A regular Portland cement mortar will also generate some
hydrated lime as a byproduct of the chemical reaction that makes it
harden.
Allow the mortar to cure for about a month, and if there is only small
amounts in contact with the water, you shouldn't have to worry. If
there
is
a large amount of mortar present, you need to monitor the pH and
possibly
do
water changes due to the pH climbing too high. Portland cement mortars
are
rigid and will crack due to shifting of the soil, or freeze thaw action.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"Norm Courage" wrote in message
ble.rogers.com...

We are planning to build a new waterfall on our 1600 gallon pond using
flagstone and we are looking for some tips as to what types of mortar
are
safe for fish,plants etc, also would like any help in what type of
construction anyone has used when working with flagstone. Thanks in
advance
--
The Courages

"RichToyBox" wrote in message
t...
Once cured it is safe for use in and around the pond. The stuff sticks to
anything while fresh, meaning you, your clothes, the rocks, the liner.
Wear
disposable clothes, you will get it on your hands, and reach for something
in your pocket, and end up with disposable clothes if you didn't start out
in disposables.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html

I've read two methods of building the waterfalls like this:

Lay the rock first, and fill the gaps,

Start with the foam, and lay the rock into the foam before it sets.

Is one method better then the other??

BTW we got so CHEAP small pond liners: those small kids pools.. Wal-Mart is
clearencing them for $2.50 each!

We'll be putting black "tarp" in one, and draping the edges of it over the
sides, and then nesting that into a second pool, to hold the liner, and add
a little more sturdiness to the bottom.

I did a test, and rope light shows through the blue, so I might attempt
tucking the ropelight into the "lip of the pool, and taping it there with
duck tape, and just leave the pool blue, with blue lights around it.

Another alternate thought, is to paint the bottom of the pool black with
Krylon Fusion. It bonds to the plastic and becomes "one" with it. Supposedly
non toxic, but we'll be fish-less here anyway.

Might buy a few more at those prices, and add a few smaller ponds around the
yard...


--
Gareee©
Homepage:
http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine.../mainframe.htm
Custom Figures, Wallpapers and more!

Will great stuff seal a epdm liner to rocks? I have a small stream that I
tested and water flows under all the rocks. I was going to silicone them to the
liner but great stuff seems better gap filling.

Great Stuff will stick to everything. Just turn the water off long enough
for everything to dry and then start filling gaps. Even if it doesn't stick
to the liner well, it will form a pseudo liner with the rocks on top of the
liner.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"BErney1014" wrote in message
...
Will great stuff seal a epdm liner to rocks? I have a small stream that I
tested and water flows under all the rocks. I was going to silicone them
to the
liner but great stuff seems better gap filling.

This is why you need to fill under the rocks as well as in between.


BErney1014 wrote in message
...
Will great stuff seal a epdm liner to rocks? I have a small stream that I
tested and water flows under all the rocks. I was going to silicone them
to the
liner but great stuff seems better gap filling.