For those of you who think leaving a few leaves on the bottom is no big
deal. Well today I was doing some vaccing of the last of the leaves to blow
in when I upturned a bucket that had a few leaves and rain water, it had
been sitting like that since the leaves started falling (about a month).
Talk about PeaEwwww! Can't imagine my fish disturbing something like that
on the pond bottom and surviving it. ~ jan

http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Defrosted~
Tri-Cities, WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

I used to leave the leaves that fell into my ponds alone, but now take them out
for that reason. Yucky, mucky! Judi

Judi9000 wrote:

I used to leave the leaves that fell into my ponds alone, but now take them out
for that reason. Yucky, mucky! Judi


could you please quote part of orig. msg.
so people know what your replying to?






--
http://www.kencofish.com Ken Arnold,
401-781-9642 cell 401-225-0556
Importer/Exporter of Goldfish,Koi,rare Predators
Shipping to legal states/countries only!
Permalon liners, Oase & Supreme Pondmaster pumps


Linux (SuSE 8.2) user #329121
Please Note: No trees or animals were harmed in the
sending of this contaminant free message We do concede
that a signicant number of electrons may have been
inconvenienced

A few years ago I did that, and disturbed a dozen frogs that had no place to
go because the weather was already too cold. Now, I wait until Spring to
clear out the last muck. This is Michigan, by the way.

"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
...
For those of you who think leaving a few leaves on the bottom is no big
deal. Well today I was doing some vaccing of the last of the leaves to
blow
in when I upturned a bucket that had a few leaves and rain water, it had
been sitting like that since the leaves started falling (about a month).
Talk about PeaEwwww! Can't imagine my fish disturbing something like that
on the pond bottom and surviving it. ~ jan

http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Defrosted~
Tri-Cities, WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

"bmuller" wrote in message
s.com...
A few years ago I did that, and disturbed a dozen frogs that had no place
to
go because the weather was already too cold. Now, I wait until Spring to
clear out the last muck. This is Michigan, by the way.
snip

Since this is my first winter, my opinion won't matter much, but I too am
letting the leaves fall where they may. I started scooping a week or so, and
I too disturbed some frogs that were slumbering. I'd rather clean the mess
in the spring then mess with my critters.


--
BV.
WebPorgmaster
www.IHeartMyPond.com
Help Support IHMP by shopping at Amazon.com thru our associates link,
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/re...me/dcg8118-20.

Sorry! I'm new to this. But I thought that when I click on a message that the
reply I send would be right after the message. At least that's what it looks
like to me. But, if I've done this wrong, thanks for correcting me.



could you please quote part of orig. msg.
so people know what your replying to?

Maybe that's why I have a hard time keeping frogs around here.

A few years ago I did that, and disturbed a dozen frogs that had no place
to
go because the weather was already too cold. Now, I wait until Spring to
clear out the last muck. This is Michigan, by the way.
snip

Since this is my first winter, my opinion won't matter much, but I too am
letting the leaves fall where they may. I started scooping a week or so, and
I too disturbed some frogs that were slumbering. I'd rather clean the mess
in the spring then mess with my critters.

P.S. Ken, if you've scrolled all the way down to here, is this what you mean?


Ken wrote:
could you please quote part of orig. msg.
so people know what your replying to?

Judi9000 wrote:

Maybe that's why I have a hard time keeping frogs around here.

A few years ago I did that, and disturbed a dozen frogs that had no place
to
go because the weather was already too cold. Now, I wait until Spring to
clear out the last muck. This is Michigan, by the way.
snip

Since this is my first winter, my opinion won't matter much, but I too am
letting the leaves fall where they may. I started scooping a week or so, and
I too disturbed some frogs that were slumbering. I'd rather clean the mess
in the spring then mess with my critters.

P.S. Ken, if you've scrolled all the way down to here, is this what you mean?


Ken wrote:
could you please quote part of orig. msg.
so people know what your replying to?



yes.


--
http://www.kencofish.com Ken Arnold,
401-781-9642 cell 401-225-0556
Importer/Exporter of Goldfish,Koi,rare Predators
Shipping to legal states/countries only!
Permalon liners, Oase & Supreme Pondmaster pumps


Linux (SuSE 8.2) user #329121
Please Note: No trees or animals were harmed in the
sending of this contaminant free message We do concede
that a signicant number of electrons may have been
inconvenienced

Judi9000 wrote:

Maybe that's why I have a hard time keeping frogs around here.

A few years ago I did that, and disturbed a dozen frogs that had no place
to
go because the weather was already too cold. Now, I wait until Spring to
clear out the last muck. This is Michigan, by the way.
snip

Since this is my first winter, my opinion won't matter much, but I too am
letting the leaves fall where they may. I started scooping a week or so, and
I too disturbed some frogs that were slumbering. I'd rather clean the mess
in the spring then mess with my critters.

P.S. Ken, if you've scrolled all the way down to here, is this what you mean?


Ken wrote:
could you please quote part of orig. msg.
so people know what your replying to?



yes.


--
http://www.kencofish.com Ken Arnold,
401-781-9642 cell 401-225-0556
Importer/Exporter of Goldfish,Koi,rare Predators
Shipping to legal states/countries only!
Permalon liners, Oase & Supreme Pondmaster pumps


Linux (SuSE 8.2) user #329121
Please Note: No trees or animals were harmed in the
sending of this contaminant free message We do concede
that a signicant number of electrons may have been
inconvenienced

Judi9000 wrote:

Maybe that's why I have a hard time keeping frogs around here.

A few years ago I did that, and disturbed a dozen frogs that had no place
to
go because the weather was already too cold. Now, I wait until Spring to
clear out the last muck. This is Michigan, by the way.
snip

Since this is my first winter, my opinion won't matter much, but I too am
letting the leaves fall where they may. I started scooping a week or so, and
I too disturbed some frogs that were slumbering. I'd rather clean the mess
in the spring then mess with my critters.

P.S. Ken, if you've scrolled all the way down to here, is this what you mean?


Ken wrote:
could you please quote part of orig. msg.
so people know what your replying to?



yes.


--
http://www.kencofish.com Ken Arnold,
401-781-9642 cell 401-225-0556
Importer/Exporter of Goldfish,Koi,rare Predators
Shipping to legal states/countries only!
Permalon liners, Oase & Supreme Pondmaster pumps


Linux (SuSE 8.2) user #329121
Please Note: No trees or animals were harmed in the
sending of this contaminant free message We do concede
that a signicant number of electrons may have been
inconvenienced

Maintaining a fish pond that accommodates other wildlife is a very delicate
balance. You may be forced to make a decision between fish and frogs. When
the leaves are left in the pond, the frogs have a place to hibernate through
the winter. However, in the Spring, the detritus created by the decaying
leaves - and the "nasties" that ALSO appreciate the decay - will create
problems for your fish when they emerge from Winter. Their immune systems
will not be anywhere near optimum, but the pathogens (lower life forms that
they are!) will have a definite advantage. And the aeromonas/pseudomonas
bacteria will not hesitate to attack your fish when they're least able to
fight them off. Going into winter with a clean pond gives your fish the
best chance of surviving until next Summer. However, many folks are more
into a "natural" pond, so fish loss is taken in stride as being part of
Nature's way. I get a big kick out of watching my frogs, but I like the
fish better. Jan's right - but it's too late now to clean your ponds if
there are leaves in the bottom. Hopefully Spring will not be too
"interesting".

Lee



"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
...
For those of you who think leaving a few leaves on the bottom is no big
deal. Well today I was doing some vaccing of the last of the leaves to
blow
in when I upturned a bucket that had a few leaves and rain water, it had
been sitting like that since the leaves started falling (about a month).
Talk about PeaEwwww! Can't imagine my fish disturbing something like that
on the pond bottom and surviving it. ~ jan

http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Defrosted~
Tri-Cities, WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

If you have a lot of leaves in the bottom of the pond, it won't matter -
both frogs and fish will die if the pond freezes over and seals in the "bad"
gases - I have seen it happen - when the pond opens up in the spring, the
water will be black and everything that was living will float to the surface
and you won't forget the smell
Gale :~)

However, many folks are more
into a "natural" pond, so fish loss is taken in stride as being part of
Nature's way. I get a big kick out of watching my frogs, but I like the
fish better. Jan's right - but it's too late now to clean your ponds if
there are leaves in the bottom. Hopefully Spring will not be too
"interesting".

Lee



"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
...
For those of you who think leaving a few leaves on the bottom is no big
deal. Well today I was doing some vaccing of the last of the leaves to
blow
in when I upturned a bucket that had a few leaves and rain water, it had
been sitting like that since the leaves started falling (about a month).
Talk about PeaEwwww! Can't imagine my fish disturbing something like
that
on the pond bottom and surviving it. ~ jan

http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Defrosted~
Tri-Cities, WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

right. bottom of pond not great for frogs. Ingrid

"Gale Pearce" wrote:
If you have a lot of leaves in the bottom of the pond, it won't matter -
both frogs and fish will die if the pond freezes over and seals in the "bad"
gases -


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.