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a challenge for the rec.ponds experts
Okay people, I've got a challenge for you! I've been noodling around the web looking for information about various pest deterrents and I found an interesting post. So I emailed this nice person and we've been exchanging emails. She found a white EPDM liner at an auction and would like to use it in a koi pond. That's right white! Now the idea is that the koi will show up loverly against the white and our challenge that I put before you is how to do that. Now I'm thinking.... a bottom drain and skimmer, of course, and a nice long handled soft brush and a commitment to maintenance. But for the stuff that doesn't go through the bottom drain and caught in the skimmer and we want to keep this water crystal clear what do you all suggest as far as filtering, really polishing the water? Have at it! kathy :-) algae primer http://hometown.aol.com/ka30p/myhomepage/garden.html |
#2
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a challenge for the rec.ponds experts
"Ka30P" wrote:
Okay people, I've got a challenge for you! I've been noodling around the web looking for information about various pest deterrents and I found an interesting post. So I emailed this nice person and we've been exchanging emails. She found a white EPDM liner at an auction and would like to use it in a koi pond. That's right white! Now the idea is that the koi will show up loverly against the white and our challenge that I put before you is how to do that. Now I'm thinking.... a bottom drain and skimmer, of course, and a nice long handled soft brush and a commitment to maintenance. But for the stuff that doesn't go through the bottom drain and caught in the skimmer and we want to keep this water crystal clear what do you all suggest as far as filtering, really polishing the water? Have at it! kathy :-) algae primer http://hometown.aol.com/ka30p/myhomepage/garden.html Kathy, I don't know about keeping the liner white. Won't algae grow on it? Sounds like way tooooooooooo much maintenance to me. San Diego Joe 4,000 - 5,000 Gallons. Goldfish, a RES named Colombo and an Oscar. -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
#3
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a challenge for the rec.ponds experts
I don't know about keeping the liner white. Won't algae grow on it?
Oh yes, I resealed my former spa pond with white Portland cement based sealer. Looked like a swimming pool for a while. A SHORT while. Then the algae started to grow on it. Now it's completely black. I think you'll work yourself to death trying to keep it clean. For really clear water a good veggie filter works best. My pond is four feet deep and it's crystal clear all the way to the bottom. Ron http://radioheaven.homestead.com/Cement_Pond1.html |
#4
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a challenge for the rec.ponds experts
Hi Kathy - IMHO, you can't keep a liner white without pool chemicals - algae
is going to form on the liner and rocks and any folds, nooks and crannies etc no matter how often you scrub it. I think this is why a new pond takes so long to balance itself as it forms the algae on surfaces in the pond and the bacteria sets up on it as compared to a pond a few yrs old. Assuming you managed to keep the liner scrubbed white, you will likely need a UV and a good BIO filter. Interesting....... can't wait to hear if this is possible just my $.02 worth Gale :~) "Ka30P" wrote in message ... Okay people, I've got a challenge for you! I've been noodling around the web looking for information about various pest deterrents and I found an interesting post. So I emailed this nice person and we've been exchanging emails. She found a white EPDM liner at an auction and would like to use it in a koi pond. That's right white! Now the idea is that the koi will show up loverly against the white and our challenge that I put before you is how to do that. Now I'm thinking.... a bottom drain and skimmer, of course, and a nice long handled soft brush and a commitment to maintenance. But for the stuff that doesn't go through the bottom drain and caught in the skimmer and we want to keep this water crystal clear what do you all suggest as far as filtering, really polishing the water? Have at it! kathy :-) algae primer http://hometown.aol.com/ka30p/myhomepage/garden.html |
#5
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a challenge for the rec.ponds experts
I don't know about keeping the liner white. Won't algae grow on it?
Oh yes, I resealed my former spa pond with white Portland cement based sealer. Looked like a swimming pool for a while. A SHORT while. Then the algae started to grow on it. Now it's completely black. I think you'll work yourself to death trying to keep it clean. For really clear water a good veggie filter works best. My pond is four feet deep and it's crystal clear all the way to the bottom. Ron http://radioheaven.homestead.com/Cement_Pond1.html |
#6
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a challenge for the rec.ponds experts
Well, the inside of my pond is white fiberglass So far the stuff that has
started to grow on the sides and bottom are sort of pale brownish greenish reddish and against the white it is a nice mottled appearance that I like better than unrelieved black. The goldfish show up beautifully. I am using both black and white containers for plants and they are ALL ugly. My pond is new, a couple of months old, with an almost complete water change last weekend. I guess there's no way to tell how the white inside will look until it has had time to settle and the plants have time to grow. I am wondering if the whiteness and all that reflected light will make the algae bloom worse. I think the first one is starting now. I could still see the bottom yesterday but today it's a bit hazy and just looks slimy. Keep us posted on how the white liner works out? "Gale Pearce" wrote in message ... Hi Kathy - IMHO, you can't keep a liner white without pool chemicals - algae is going to form on the liner and rocks and any folds, nooks and crannies etc no matter how often you scrub it. I think this is why a new pond takes so long to balance itself as it forms the algae on surfaces in the pond and the bacteria sets up on it as compared to a pond a few yrs old. Assuming you managed to keep the liner scrubbed white, you will likely need a UV and a good BIO filter. Interesting....... can't wait to hear if this is possible just my $.02 worth Gale :~) "Ka30P" wrote in message ... Okay people, I've got a challenge for you! I've been noodling around the web looking for information about various pest deterrents and I found an interesting post. So I emailed this nice person and we've been exchanging emails. She found a white EPDM liner at an auction and would like to use it in a koi pond. That's right white! Now the idea is that the koi will show up loverly against the white and our challenge that I put before you is how to do that. Now I'm thinking.... a bottom drain and skimmer, of course, and a nice long handled soft brush and a commitment to maintenance. But for the stuff that doesn't go through the bottom drain and caught in the skimmer and we want to keep this water crystal clear what do you all suggest as far as filtering, really polishing the water? Have at it! kathy :-) algae primer http://hometown.aol.com/ka30p/myhomepage/garden.html |
#7
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a challenge for the rec.ponds experts
"Ka30P" wrote in message
... snips She found a white EPDM liner at an auction and would like to use it in a koi pond. That's right white! Now the idea is that the koi will show up loverly against the white and our challenge that I put before you is how to do that. Now I'm thinking.... a bottom drain and skimmer, of course, and a nice long handled soft brush and a commitment to maintenance. But for the stuff that doesn't go through the bottom drain and caught in the skimmer and we want to keep this water crystal clear what do you all suggest as far as filtering, really polishing the water? Hi, http://www.mobilroof.com/faquv.html suggests that there are other problems and they concern exposure to the sun. Some of the carbon (which gives EPDM its UV protection) is removed in order to add titanium oxide. Others have said that keeping it white would be a problem and I agree, brushing would be the only way I see to accomplish this. Gin clear water is much easier to accomplish. My opinions, since this pond will require daily/hourly brushing you might as well have a DE filter as the finish filter. First would be, of course, a large settle tank from the sump of the pond which will be opposite where the water re-enters the pond, this would be covered from the sun . Second would be an aerated "pot scrubbie" basin. Third a veggie filter which flows to a smaller sump and then is pumped to the DE and back to the pond. In this setup clean water is pumped to the pond, no dirty water is pumped at all. And while they are out there brushing they can net the bottom for the big stuff using a pool net, the kind with the 'fin' on them. HTH -_- how no NEWS is good |
#8
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a challenge for the rec.ponds experts
IMHO, I think I'd tell her to go look at a platinum butterfly koi, and say,
you really want to hide that? So many koi have white in them, but may not be the white white of the liner (assuming one could keep it white white) so one either looks dirty white compared to the other. Now with all orange fish, probably better, but than you do have the baskets to hide. As far as a filter, I think one would need a pre-filter, mechanical filter, bio filter and a pressurized system to polish, be it beads, sand, or DE, and let's not forget the UV. And she better be very willing to test the water and keep an eye on pH, KH, and the nitrates... without algae to help out with that last one. ~jan On 24 Jul 2004 15:22:40 GMT, EROSPAM (Ka30P) wrote: Okay people, I've got a challenge for you! I've been noodling around the web looking for information about various pest deterrents and I found an interesting post. So I emailed this nice person and we've been exchanging emails. She found a white EPDM liner at an auction and would like to use it in a koi pond. That's right white! Now the idea is that the koi will show up loverly against the white and our challenge that I put before you is how to do that. Now I'm thinking.... a bottom drain and skimmer, of course, and a nice long handled soft brush and a commitment to maintenance. But for the stuff that doesn't go through the bottom drain and caught in the skimmer and we want to keep this water crystal clear what do you all suggest as far as filtering, really polishing the water? Have at it! kathy :-) algae primer http://hometown.aol.com/ka30p/myhomepage/garden.html (Do you know where your water quality is?) |
#9
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a challenge for the rec.ponds experts
Chlorine:-)
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#10
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a challenge for the rec.ponds experts
"Ka30P" wrote in message ... Okay people, I've got a challenge for you! I've been noodling around the web looking for information about various pest deterrents and I found an interesting post. So I emailed this nice person and we've been exchanging emails. She found a white EPDM liner at an auction and would like to use it in a koi pond. That's right white! Now the idea is that the koi will show up loverly against the white and our challenge that I put before you is how to do that. Now I'm thinking.... a bottom drain and skimmer, of course, and a nice long handled soft brush and a commitment to maintenance. But for the stuff that doesn't go through the bottom drain and caught in the skimmer and we want to keep this water crystal clear what do you all suggest as far as filtering, really polishing the water? Have at it! kathy :-) algae primer http://hometown.aol.com/ka30p/myhomepage/garden.html Bio/mechanical filter DE filter carbon filter veggie filter and a couple of Ple*cos. Careful with the carbon filter, though, as I'm sure you know, as most need to be introduced gradually, maybe one hour the first day, 3 hours the 2nd day, 6 hours the 3rd day... Some people say that Ple*cos will attach to the sides of the other fish. I've seen this happen once in an aquarium, possibily because the Ple*co had nothing to eat? So.... I don't introduce the Ple*cos until the algae starts growing on the sides of the pond. |
#11
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a challenge for the rec.ponds experts
"volts500" wrote in message . .. "Ka30P" wrote in message ... Okay people, I've got a challenge for you! snip Bio/mechanical filter DE filter carbon filter veggie filter and a couple of Ple*cos. Careful with the carbon filter, though, as I'm sure you know, as most need to be introduced gradually, maybe one hour the first day, 3 hours the 2nd day, 6 hours the 3rd day... Some people say that Ple*cos will attach to the sides of the other fish. I've seen this happen once in an aquarium, possibily because the Ple*co had nothing to eat? So.... I don't introduce the Ple*cos until the algae starts growing on the sides of the pond. Hi, Forget the plecostomus (me superstitious? no) they will not keep the sides clean. They will eat the food you feed the other fish. They will die when the water is 55/50 degrees F and are very hard to catch to bring in for the winter. Personally have never seen one sucking on another fish but others have observed this. IMO they are useless in a pond, not the least bit cute and hard to handle. LFS that sell them as 'a must' for ponds are to be avoided. Any citations on gradual introduction of carbon filtration? Most ponders would not like the expense of keeping enough activated carbon in their ponds. L8R -_- how no NEWS is good |
#12
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a challenge for the rec.ponds experts
"volts500" wrote in message . .. "Ka30P" wrote in message ... Okay people, I've got a challenge for you! snip Bio/mechanical filter DE filter carbon filter veggie filter and a couple of Ple*cos. Careful with the carbon filter, though, as I'm sure you know, as most need to be introduced gradually, maybe one hour the first day, 3 hours the 2nd day, 6 hours the 3rd day... Some people say that Ple*cos will attach to the sides of the other fish. I've seen this happen once in an aquarium, possibily because the Ple*co had nothing to eat? So.... I don't introduce the Ple*cos until the algae starts growing on the sides of the pond. Hi, Forget the plecostomus (me superstitious? no) they will not keep the sides clean. They will eat the food you feed the other fish. They will die when the water is 55/50 degrees F and are very hard to catch to bring in for the winter. Personally have never seen one sucking on another fish but others have observed this. IMO they are useless in a pond, not the least bit cute and hard to handle. LFS that sell them as 'a must' for ponds are to be avoided. Any citations on gradual introduction of carbon filtration? Most ponders would not like the expense of keeping enough activated carbon in their ponds. L8R -_- how no NEWS is good |
#13
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a challenge for the rec.ponds experts
"how" wrote in message . .. "volts500" wrote in message . .. "Ka30P" wrote in message ... Okay people, I've got a challenge for you! snip Bio/mechanical filter DE filter carbon filter veggie filter and a couple of Ple*cos. Careful with the carbon filter, though, as I'm sure you know, as most need to be introduced gradually, maybe one hour the first day, 3 hours the 2nd day, 6 hours the 3rd day... Some people say that Ple*cos will attach to the sides of the other fish. I've seen this happen once in an aquarium, possibily because the Ple*co had nothing to eat? So.... I don't introduce the Ple*cos until the algae starts growing on the sides of the pond. Hi, Forget the plecostomus (me superstitious? no) they will not keep the sides clean. Depends upon the size of the "pond" and the number of plecos. I have three 150 gal or so preformed "ponds" connected by spillways. The bio/mechanical filter is at the top. The top two "ponds" are more or less veggie filters and the bottom one has large goldfish and two plecos. The sides of the bottom "pond" are spotless because of the Plecos. Middle "pond" has another Pleco and a red ear slider that came from I don't know where (they're buddies). The water is clear and the only maintenance that I do is to clear the pump impeller once a week or so from debris and clean the bio/mechanical filter every 4 to 6 months. If I want to "polish" the water, I put Poly Squares (from the craft/sewing dept. in some stores) in the bio/mechanical filter for a few hours.....have to keep an eye on it though, because the mesh is so fine that the filter will back up. The clear water does have an amber tint from tannins as I don't run a carbon filter. It's not noticable anyway because the preforms are black. They will eat the food you feed the other fish. Not if one doesn't overfeed the fish. The Goldfish eat the food long before the Plecos have a chance to get to it. In fact, my wife sneaks out at night and throws in extra, just so the Plecos _do_ get some pellets. .. They will die when the water is 55/50 degrees F and are very hard to catch to bring in for the winter. There is no doubt that they will die at lower temps and are difficult to catch. Here in central FL they do very well in the wild and in small "ponds", such as mine.. I haven't recorded the water temps. when the air temps. get down into the 30's here, but the Plecos do hang in there. Personally have never seen one sucking on another fish but others have observed this. IMO they are useless in a pond, not the least bit cute and hard to handle. LFS that sell them as 'a must' for ponds are to be avoided. I wouldn't say that they are a must either, however, with a white liner, every little bit helps. Again, from my experience, a _lot_ of scrubbing (a white liner) could be avoided if the right number of Plecos are put in the right size pond. The LFS's in my area that I go to actually told me _not_ to put them in my pond, but then I have been known to raise/breed Discus outside year round here too. I'll admit that it is a _lot_ of work to keep Discus outside in the winter here.....that's why I don't do it anymore. Fancy Guppies do fine though, year round. Any citations on gradual introduction of carbon filtration? Some carbon manufacturers will state same right on the box or jar. 30 years ago I killed my favorite Oscar with some Marineland (brand) carbon when I was running a fresh batch in an Eheim filter, forgot to set the timer, then fell asleep :-( Most ponders would not like the expense of keeping enough activated carbon in their ponds. Most ponders don't use white liners either :-) If you know a better, less expensive way to remove the amber tint (tannins), I'm all ears. |
#14
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a challenge for the rec.ponds experts
"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
... snips As far as a filter, I think one would need a pre-filter, mechanical filter, bio filter and a pressurized system to polish, be it beads, sand, or DE, and let's not forget the UV. And she better be very willing to test the water and keep an eye on pH, KH, and the nitrates... without algae to help out with that last one. ~jan Hi, Of course I would not do it like you would ;-) but do want to emphasize the point you made about algae. I've heard/read/made up, that about 30% of bio filtration happens right in the pond. The algae that will need to be brushed off to maintain this white setup will need to be compensated for with a larger filter no matter what type is used and closer monitoring of parameters. UV or not UV - not! L8R -_- how no NEWS is good |
#15
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a challenge for the rec.ponds experts
I know, she needs a 2nd pond, with black liner to grow the necessary
algae.... which could be a veggie filter with plants. After reading all our ideas & opinions, I'd sure scrap using the white liner. ;o) ~ jan Hi, Of course I would not do it like you would ;-) but do want to emphasize the point you made about algae. I've heard/read/made up, that about 30% of bio filtration happens right in the pond. The algae that will need to be brushed off to maintain this white setup will need to be compensated for with a larger filter no matter what type is used and closer monitoring of parameters. UV or not UV - not! L8R -_- how no NEWS is good (Do you know where your water quality is?) |
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