thought i would draw on the collective wisdom of this group.

i have a 300g inground pond with a 45 mil liner that has been running
since april of this year. it has a 950g/hr mag pump with the discharge
split into a venturi and a bioforce 1000 bio-mechanical filter. it has
been home to 6 - 5 inch comets during this time with no probs. been
doing 10% wcs monthly and did a 20% wc 3 weeks ago when i cleaned the
filter pads (rinsing the pads in water taken from pond for the wc). i
use amquel+ for water top offs and wcs (treating the water taken up in
30g plastic containers and aerating before adding to the pond). the
pond sits under a patio cover in the back yard and is shaded
throughout the day.

the prob:

i lost 4 fish in the last 12 hrs. with no signs of flashing or
abnormal behavior. the four started going belly up within hours of one
another. as i saw signs of them struggling to hang on (swimming
erratically, etc, as dying fish do) i placed them in a 30g container
with freshly conditioned water and a powerhead for circulation. they
died hours apart. ran tests at first sign of distress:

nh3- 0
no2 - 0
no3 - 10
pH - 7.8

i keep fresh and salt tanks and know losing fish sometimes happens.
but i only lose 1 every so often - never a fish kill like this. i
think i've done everything right (including adding a large bag of well
rinsed activated carbon to the return of the pond last night to
remove possible pollutants). i just looked in on the remaining two and
they're swimming around fine - no signs of distress.

i know this is long but am hoping to get some possiblities of what
happened.

"rasta" wrote in message
news
thought i would draw on the collective wisdom of this group.

i have a 300g inground pond with a 45 mil liner that has been running
since april of this year. it has a 950g/hr mag pump with the discharge
split into a venturi and a bioforce 1000 bio-mechanical filter. it has
been home to 6 - 5 inch comets during this time with no probs. been
doing 10% wcs monthly and did a 20% wc 3 weeks ago when i cleaned the
filter pads (rinsing the pads in water taken from pond for the wc). i

Adding a bag of freshly activated carbon to the mix probably sucked all your
oxygen out of the water, you need to pre-soak this stuff b4 use. Do you have
a waterfall? Hows your surface agitation? Your water parameters sound fine
(how old are your test kits?) so oxygen depletion is the only thing that
springs to mind.
--
**So long, and thanks for all the fish!**

On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:49:31 +0200, "Happy'Cam'per" wrote:

snip

thanks for the response.

Adding a bag of freshly activated carbon to the mix probably sucked all your
oxygen out of the water, you need to pre-soak this stuff b4 use. Do you have
a waterfall? Hows your surface agitation? Your water parameters sound fine
(how old are your test kits?) so oxygen depletion is the only thing that
springs to mind.

carbon was well rinsed and soaked (in ro/di water) for about an hour
as i do with all carbon additions. the kill started before i did this.
the remaining two are swimming fine after the addition. i know the
carbon didn't do it.

for aeration, i have the pump discharge going to a venturi and using
an urn for a return (about 1 foot fall).

test kits are reliable.

seep pics in sig:

positive vibes, rasta
http://rynholland.tripod.com/
http://rynholland.tripod.com/pond/id2.html
http://rynholland.tripod.com/pond/id1.html

On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:49:31 +0200, "Happy'Cam'per" wrote:

"rasta" wrote in message
news
thought i would draw on the collective wisdom of this group.

i have a 300g inground pond with a 45 mil liner that has been running
since april of this year. it has a 950g/hr mag pump with the discharge
split into a venturi and a bioforce 1000 bio-mechanical filter. it has
been home to 6 - 5 inch comets during this time with no probs. been
doing 10% wcs monthly and did a 20% wc 3 weeks ago when i cleaned the
filter pads (rinsing the pads in water taken from pond for the wc). i

Adding a bag of freshly activated carbon to the mix probably sucked all your
oxygen out of the water, you need to pre-soak this stuff b4 use. Do you have

WOW! I did not know this. Thank you for that info!

I thought activated charcoal only removed impurities that could hurt
the fish, not actually hurt my fish.

thanks,

tom





a waterfall? Hows your surface agitation? Your water parameters sound fine
(how old are your test kits?) so oxygen depletion is the only thing that
springs to mind.

***************** Check Us Out *****************
http://www.CarFleaMarket.com
Discover low-cost sell my car ads to the web!

On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:49:31 +0200, "Happy'Cam'per" wrote:

"rasta" wrote in message
news
thought i would draw on the collective wisdom of this group.

i have a 300g inground pond with a 45 mil liner that has been running
since april of this year. it has a 950g/hr mag pump with the discharge
split into a venturi and a bioforce 1000 bio-mechanical filter. it has
been home to 6 - 5 inch comets during this time with no probs. been
doing 10% wcs monthly and did a 20% wc 3 weeks ago when i cleaned the
filter pads (rinsing the pads in water taken from pond for the wc). i

Adding a bag of freshly activated carbon to the mix probably sucked all your
oxygen out of the water, you need to pre-soak this stuff b4 use. Do you have

WOW! I did not know this. Thank you for that info!

I thought activated charcoal only removed impurities that could hurt
the fish, not actually hurt my fish.

thanks,

tom





a waterfall? Hows your surface agitation? Your water parameters sound fine
(how old are your test kits?) so oxygen depletion is the only thing that
springs to mind.

***************** Check Us Out *****************
http://www.CarFleaMarket.com
Discover low-cost sell my car ads to the web!

On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:49:31 +0200, "Happy'Cam'per" wrote:

snip

thanks for the response.

Adding a bag of freshly activated carbon to the mix probably sucked all your
oxygen out of the water, you need to pre-soak this stuff b4 use. Do you have
a waterfall? Hows your surface agitation? Your water parameters sound fine
(how old are your test kits?) so oxygen depletion is the only thing that
springs to mind.

carbon was well rinsed and soaked (in ro/di water) for about an hour
as i do with all carbon additions. the kill started before i did this.
the remaining two are swimming fine after the addition. i know the
carbon didn't do it.

for aeration, i have the pump discharge going to a venturi and using
an urn for a return (about 1 foot fall).

test kits are reliable.

seep pics in sig:

positive vibes, rasta
http://rynholland.tripod.com/
http://rynholland.tripod.com/pond/id2.html
http://rynholland.tripod.com/pond/id1.html

rasta wrote:
i lost 4 fish in the last 12 hrs. with no signs of flashing or
abnormal behavior.

It's a long shot but has anyone sprayed any pesticides around lately? I
lost my fish last year when a neighbour sprayed for wasps.

Cam

On 10 Sep 2004 06:11:32 -0700, "Cam" wrote:


rasta wrote:
i lost 4 fish in the last 12 hrs. with no signs of flashing or
abnormal behavior.

It's a long shot but has anyone sprayed any pesticides around lately? I
lost my fish last year when a neighbour sprayed for wasps.

Cam

pesticides are a very real possibilty. i live in a suburban area -
very close to neighbors. also being in zone 9 and near the coast the
county sprays for mosquitoes. don't know if any sprayings from either
source have happened recently. again, don't know if the addition of
carbon is what helped the other two survive but could be an
explaination.

On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:00:21 -0500, rasta wrote:

It's a long shot but has anyone sprayed any pesticides around lately? I
lost my fish last year when a neighbour sprayed for wasps.
Cam

This would be my guess also after reading all the info on the pond,
parameters and pump. I assume you hadn't added anything new to the pond in
the last day or so before this happened, new pots, spitter, plants, etc?
Anything that could have had a contaminate on it? ~ jan


~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:43:25 -0700, ~ jan JJsPond.us
wrote:

On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:00:21 -0500, rasta wrote:

It's a long shot but has anyone sprayed any pesticides around lately? I
lost my fish last year when a neighbour sprayed for wasps.
Cam

This would be my guess also after reading all the info on the pond,
parameters and pump. I assume you hadn't added anything new to the pond in
the last day or so before this happened, new pots, spitter, plants, etc?
Anything that could have had a contaminate on it? ~ jan


~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

no, no new additions, elsewise this would have been my first guess.

pesticide/atmospheric poisining would be my guess also.

fwiw, the two survivors are swimming vigaroulsy. i believe the lesson
learned is (for me) to run carbon continuously as i do in all my
tanks.


thanks for the comments folkz!

positive vibes, rasta
http://rynholland.tripod.com/
http://rynholland.tripod.com/pond/id2.html
http://rynholland.tripod.com/pond/id1.html

In article , rasta
writes:

pesticides are a very real possibilty. i live in a suburban area -
very close to neighbors. also being in zone 9 and near the coast the
county sprays for mosquitoes

when I lived in Houston, they sprayed at 2 am, so most people weren't aware of
it. how close is your pond to the street, mine was at the very back of my
property, and I didn't have any problems with the spray reaching them. I also
had quite a few trees to stop the penetration. I always worried about the
spraying.

Karen
Zone 5
Ashland, OH
http://hometown.aol.com/kmam1/MyPond/MyPond.html
My Art Studio at
http://members.aol.com/kmmstudios/K....M.Studios.html
for email remove the extra extention

Karen,

Where I live when they spray for mosquitoes they run up
and down the alleys. Don't know about your area, but
here we can request that the spray truck not go down
our alley.

So far they have respected all requests, because some
people are allergic to the spray that they use.

Tom L.L.
-------------------------------------
Karen wrote:
In article , rasta
writes:


pesticides are a very real possibilty. i live in a suburban area -
very close to neighbors. also being in zone 9 and near the coast the
county sprays for mosquitoes


when I lived in Houston, they sprayed at 2 am, so most people weren't aware of
it. how close is your pond to the street, mine was at the very back of my
property, and I didn't have any problems with the spray reaching them. I also
had quite a few trees to stop the penetration. I always worried about the
spraying.

Karen
Zone 5
Ashland, OH
http://hometown.aol.com/kmam1/MyPond/MyPond.html
My Art Studio at
http://members.aol.com/kmmstudios/K....M.Studios.html
for email remove the extra extention

while it can be city/county spraying that is the problem many are using Bti which is
not toxic for fish. it is the neighbor next door or the "for hire" sprayers like for
termites that overspray (stupid neighbors, cheap labor).
I talked to people on both sides about not spraying anything without telling me.
unfortunately, the "natural" insecticides... pyrethrin are extremely toxic to fish
whereas synthetics like malathion are less so. often it is the "carriers" in the
pesticides that are very toxic, like naptha based carriers.
Ingrid


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Karen,

Where I live when they spray for mosquitoes they run up
and down the alleys. Don't know about your area, but
here we can request that the spray truck not go down
our alley.

So far they have respected all requests, because some
people are allergic to the spray that they use.

Tom L.L.
-------------------------------------
Karen wrote:
In article , rasta
writes:


pesticides are a very real possibilty. i live in a suburban area -
very close to neighbors. also being in zone 9 and near the coast the
county sprays for mosquitoes


when I lived in Houston, they sprayed at 2 am, so most people weren't aware of
it. how close is your pond to the street, mine was at the very back of my
property, and I didn't have any problems with the spray reaching them. I also
had quite a few trees to stop the penetration. I always worried about the
spraying.

Karen
Zone 5
Ashland, OH
http://hometown.aol.com/kmam1/MyPond/MyPond.html
My Art Studio at
http://members.aol.com/kmmstudios/K....M.Studios.html
for email remove the extra extention

Karen,

Where I live when they spray for mosquitoes they run up
and down the alleys. Don't know about your area, but
here we can request that the spray truck not go down
our alley.

So far they have respected all requests, because some
people are allergic to the spray that they use.

Tom L.L.
-------------------------------------
Karen wrote:
In article , rasta
writes:


pesticides are a very real possibilty. i live in a suburban area -
very close to neighbors. also being in zone 9 and near the coast the
county sprays for mosquitoes


when I lived in Houston, they sprayed at 2 am, so most people weren't aware of
it. how close is your pond to the street, mine was at the very back of my
property, and I didn't have any problems with the spray reaching them. I also
had quite a few trees to stop the penetration. I always worried about the
spraying.

Karen
Zone 5
Ashland, OH
http://hometown.aol.com/kmam1/MyPond/MyPond.html
My Art Studio at
http://members.aol.com/kmmstudios/K....M.Studios.html
for email remove the extra extention