I don't suppose you have a link with instructions to the pond de-icer.....

Both of my water heaters (type for keeping outdoor watering hole open) died
and I'm fighting a losing battle trying to keep a hole in the ice open. I
cannot find an outdoor airbubbler (or whatever they are called) and I'm
looking for a temp fix until I do. It is really cold of late on Long Island
and pouring boiling water to open up the ice just doesn't make it with this
weather.


"MsNick1" wrote in message
...
Hi Pete,
I believe it's me you are trying to reach.
Christine and
Sadie, dalmatian,
Kahlua and her kids, Chip & Skye (chocolate labs),
Pete & Bones the Cats,
Bandit the parrot,
and the Reptile Critters!
http://members.aol.com/msnick1/index/index.html

You do not want to keep a hole open using a bubbler, that will cause
the temperature of the water to plummet, much below freezing. Your
fish are ok during the winter, they can handle water that is 32
degrees, but not water that drops belore 10 degrees.

On Mon, 27 Jan 2003 15:20:02 -0500, "D Kat"
wrote:

I don't suppose you have a link with instructions to the pond de-icer.....

Both of my water heaters (type for keeping outdoor watering hole open) died
and I'm fighting a losing battle trying to keep a hole in the ice open. I
cannot find an outdoor airbubbler (or whatever they are called) and I'm
looking for a temp fix until I do. It is really cold of late on Long Island
and pouring boiling water to open up the ice just doesn't make it with this
weather.


"MsNick1" wrote in message
...
Hi Pete,
I believe it's me you are trying to reach.
Christine and
Sadie, dalmatian,
Kahlua and her kids, Chip & Skye (chocolate labs),
Pete & Bones the Cats,
Bandit the parrot,
and the Reptile Critters!
http://members.aol.com/msnick1/index/index.html

Many people use cheap aquarium pumps to keep a small area
of the pond open during the winter. It is said that this allows
unwanted/harmfull gasses to escape from the pond.

Howard


"Bill Marcy" wrote in message
...

You do not want to keep a hole open using a bubbler, that will cause
the temperature of the water to plummet, much below freezing. Your
fish are ok during the winter, they can handle water that is 32
degrees, but not water that drops belore 10 degrees.

On Mon, 27 Jan 2003 15:20:02 -0500, "D Kat"
wrote:

I don't suppose you have a link with instructions to the pond
de-icer.....

Both of my water heaters (type for keeping outdoor watering hole open)
died
and I'm fighting a losing battle trying to keep a hole in the ice open.
I
cannot find an outdoor airbubbler (or whatever they are called) and I'm
looking for a temp fix until I do. It is really cold of late on Long
Island
and pouring boiling water to open up the ice just doesn't make it with
this
weather.


"MsNick1" wrote in message
...
Hi Pete,
I believe it's me you are trying to reach.
Christine and
Sadie, dalmatian,
Kahlua and her kids, Chip & Skye (chocolate labs),
Pete & Bones the Cats,
Bandit the parrot,
and the Reptile Critters!
http://members.aol.com/msnick1/index/index.html

I am using the cheap aquarium air pump, I am in zone 5, temps have between 2
and 20 degrees f. I keep the airtube about 4 to 6 inches below surface and
my water temp stays right at 31 or 32, just don't go to deep or you can
super chill the water. I have hole about 15 inches across all winter, so
far 2 winters now with it in a coffee can turned upside down, works
perfectly, have a heater just incase but haven't had to use it yet....Claude

Both of my water heaters (type for keeping outdoor watering hole open) died
and I'm fighting a losing battle trying to keep a hole in the ice open.

I have horses and bought the same heater that I use in the water tanks. It
floats on top of the pond. I tied it off with light cotton rope to keep in the
middle of the pond. Paid $35. Works great.

What did ponds do for the billions of years before anyone thought to
keep an opening in it? Fish are designed to survive the winter.

Relax.


On Mon, 27 Jan 2003 14:43:09 -0700, "Howard"
(remove XYZ) wrote:

Many people use cheap aquarium pumps to keep a small area
of the pond open during the winter. It is said that this allows
unwanted/harmfull gasses to escape from the pond.

Howard


"Bill Marcy" wrote in message
.. .

You do not want to keep a hole open using a bubbler, that will cause
the temperature of the water to plummet, much below freezing. Your
fish are ok during the winter, they can handle water that is 32
degrees, but not water that drops belore 10 degrees.

On Mon, 27 Jan 2003 15:20:02 -0500, "D Kat"
wrote:

I don't suppose you have a link with instructions to the pond
de-icer.....

Both of my water heaters (type for keeping outdoor watering hole open)
died
and I'm fighting a losing battle trying to keep a hole in the ice open.
I
cannot find an outdoor airbubbler (or whatever they are called) and I'm
looking for a temp fix until I do. It is really cold of late on Long
Island
and pouring boiling water to open up the ice just doesn't make it with
this
weather.


"MsNick1" wrote in message
...
Hi Pete,
I believe it's me you are trying to reach.
Christine and
Sadie, dalmatian,
Kahlua and her kids, Chip & Skye (chocolate labs),
Pete & Bones the Cats,
Bandit the parrot,
and the Reptile Critters!
http://members.aol.com/msnick1/index/index.html

On Mon, 27 Jan 2003 20:49:21 GMT, Bill Marcy
wrote:

You do not want to keep a hole open using a bubbler, that will cause
the temperature of the water to plummet, much below freezing. Your
fish are ok during the winter, they can handle water that is 32
degrees, but not water that drops belore 10 degrees.

Welcome aboard Bill, I'm so glad you cleared that up!

I love the theory Bill, but wouldn't a big pond be a lot less affected by
gases than our "making an assumption here" smaller, say 500 to 2000 gallon
ponds. I would love to think your right, and I'm not saying your not, just
going by what pretty much "assumption again" everyone here has said post
after post. I guess the question here would be has anyone ever lost any
fishies do to the pond freezing over, not solid, just frozen top layer so no
gases could escape........I am a rookie here at best, only a year or so's
experience, not arguing here, if there's no need, cool sign me up. Just
don't want my fishies mad at me......Claude

Claude, You are absolutely right in your deductions.
Bill is really off-base in his rather Demanding tone that
fish will be okay in an iced over pond - and for us
to Relax. Who in hell does he think he is?
I have only been
ponding since 1994 so I don't know everything. But one year we had a
prolonged period of horribly cold
weather. I lost several to many goldfish... about 3 inches long. The bottom
of my pond was not all that clean either. I learned from
books and articles (before I stumbled on this group)
on the situation. All advice was to keep a hole open
in the pond - the advice was to use a pan of boiling
water to get a hole open in the pond and to maintain it.
I bought a De-Icer from a farm equipment
place - and cleaned the bottom of the pond. Then I found out about CSA/BZT
powder. Kept up the maintenance doses. No more losses.

You can draw your own conclusions.

Nedra in Missouri
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"Claude" wrote in message
...
I love the theory Bill, but wouldn't a big pond be a lot less affected by
gases than our "making an assumption here" smaller, say 500 to 2000 gallon
ponds. I would love to think your right, and I'm not saying your not,
just
going by what pretty much "assumption again" everyone here has said post
after post. I guess the question here would be has anyone ever lost any
fishies do to the pond freezing over, not solid, just frozen top layer so
no
gases could escape........I am a rookie here at best, only a year or so's
experience, not arguing here, if there's no need, cool sign me up. Just
don't want my fishies mad at me......Claude

Bill wrote What did ponds do for the billions of years before anyone thought
to
keep an opening in it? Fish are designed to survive the winter. Relax

Mother Nature handled those ponds and she
did not get it right all the time. Even natural ponds can have fish kill over
the winter.

We all have a relatively small body of water, lots of plants and lots of fish -
there ain't nothin' natural about our ponds. Keep a hole open in the ice for
safety!


k30a

Claude wrote:
I love the theory Bill, but wouldn't a big pond be a lot less affected by
gases than our "making an assumption here" smaller, say 500 to 2000 gallon
ponds. I would love to think your right, and I'm not saying your not, just
going by what pretty much "assumption again" everyone here has said post
after post. I guess the question here would be has anyone ever lost any
fishies do to the pond freezing over, not solid, just frozen top layer so no
gases could escape........I am a rookie here at best, only a year or so's
experience, not arguing here, if there's no need, cool sign me up. Just
don't want my fishies mad at me......Claude



Yes, I lost all my fish. It was a very cold winter with a
very heavy snow load. I tried to keep an opening in the ice
by putting a tea kettle on it daily to melt the ice. Then
we had a blizzard and the snow load from the porch roof went
on top of the pond, I had to let the snow melt before I
could get to the fish. When that finally happened all my
fish were dead. That was a horrible experience that I would
wish on no one!
--
Bonnie
NJ

[original post is likely clipped to save bandwidth]
On Tue, 28 Jan 2003 01:28:42 GMT, Bill Marcy wrote:




What did ponds do for the billions of years before anyone thought to
keep an opening in it? Fish are designed to survive the winter.


Yes, but EDPM has not been around for billions of years. It doesn't allow
gasses to escape via soil.

gerry

--

Personal home page - http://gogood.com

gerry misspelled in my email address to confuse robots

[original post is likely clipped to save bandwidth]
On Mon, 27 Jan 2003 20:49:21 GMT, Bill Marcy wrote:


You do not want to keep a hole open using a bubbler, that will cause
the temperature of the water to plummet, much below freezing. Your
fish are ok during the winter, they can handle water that is 32
degrees, but not water that drops belore 10 degrees.


If the water is still liquid, it is at least 32 degrees. I agree, fish can't
survive being frozen solid (1below 32).

gerry

--

Personal home page - http://gogood.com

gerry misspelled in my email address to confuse robots

I didn't have a problem with Bill's tone... You seem a bit on edge though...
winter getting to you or is it the politics ?


"Nedra" wrote in message
hlink.net...
Claude, You are absolutely right in your deductions.
Bill is really off-base in his rather Demanding tone that
fish will be okay in an iced over pond - and for us
to Relax. Who in hell does he think he is?
I have only been
ponding since 1994 so I don't know everything. But one year we had a
prolonged period of horribly cold
weather. I lost several to many goldfish... about 3 inches long. The
bottom
of my pond was not all that clean either. I learned from
books and articles (before I stumbled on this group)
on the situation. All advice was to keep a hole open
in the pond - the advice was to use a pan of boiling
water to get a hole open in the pond and to maintain it.
I bought a De-Icer from a farm equipment
place - and cleaned the bottom of the pond. Then I found out about
CSA/BZT
powder. Kept up the maintenance doses. No more losses.

You can draw your own conclusions.

Nedra in Missouri
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"Claude" wrote in message
...
I love the theory Bill, but wouldn't a big pond be a lot less affected
by
gases than our "making an assumption here" smaller, say 500 to 2000
gallon
ponds. I would love to think your right, and I'm not saying your not,
just
going by what pretty much "assumption again" everyone here has said post
after post. I guess the question here would be has anyone ever lost any
fishies do to the pond freezing over, not solid, just frozen top layer
so
no
gases could escape........I am a rookie here at best, only a year or
so's
experience, not arguing here, if there's no need, cool sign me up. Just

don't want my fishies mad at me......Claude

I'm getting into this discussion late and have been a lurker, but I feel
I must comment about fish survival under ice. It all has to do with
OXYGEN, rarely being frozen solid. Any body of water which freezes over
and does not allow for production of or free oxygen exchange from the
air will have low oxygen content resulting in a fish kill. Here in
northern Wisconsin, we have frequent winter kill in some of our lakes.
When does this happen? It happens when we have early ice cover followed
by thick blankets of snow retarding or even eliminating light
penetration. (The ice doesn't even need to be very thick.) Without light
the algae (still alive and functioning) are unable to produce oxygen and
the organic matter in the water/sediment causes an oxygen demand on the
water due to microbial action. The net result is winter kill. How can
we prevent it? Get oxygen into the water. How? Naturally it occurs
when flowing water enters the lake carrying with it some oxygen. Also,
spring holes may keep the ice from forming. What can we do? Keep the
lake open by aerating (very commonly done here) either using compressed
air or some mechanical devise powered by electricity or by air (wind).
I pass a lake not too far from my house which has had periodic freeze
outs for the past several decades. Two years ago, an aerator was
installed to keep the lake open and to aerate the water. Since then we
have seen no fish kills and the newly stocked populations of game fish
are thriving. Now in our area we commonly have 24 inches + of ice on
most of our lakes, so shallow artificial ponds would be expected to
freeze solid, or nearly so. Without question this would kill the fish.
So in our area we would expect to need to heat the water to keep it open
and unfrozen. In fact, most of the people I know who have garden ponds
remove the fish and sensitive aquatic plants and over-winter them in the
house and don't worry about keeping the water unfrozen.

My $0.02.

Bill

--
Bill and Nancy Weiler
Tony, Wisconsin
http://home.centurytel.net/spinandfish/spinandfish