I have two new bare root rose bushes in large containers that are
pathetic looking... the leaves are small, the canes are small and
flowering on one (Sunbright) is about half its normal size. The other
bush (Mr Lincoln) has not even flowered and quite frankly, I don't think
it will. I'm at a loss...

let me give a little background. Last year in late February I planted
exactly the same rose bushes... a Mr Lincoln and a Sunbright. Since I
had taken a break from growing roses due to the drought in the late
1980's, I removed all soil from the containers and started afresh, using
Miracle-Gro Enhanced Planting Mix. After setting the bushes, I watered
with Miracle-Gro Rose Plant Food. Man did I have great looking roses.
The flowering was huge. New canes grew large and tall. I was really
pleased.

At the beginning of each month I would feed each plant with the
recommended amount of Ortho Rose Pride, then in August I noticed that
the rose bushes were not doing well. At the same time... about June I
was hit hard with powdery mildew. Because of birds just inside my patio,
I treated with neem oil and thought the decline of my roses was an
effect of the powdery mildew. Bottom line is that even tho I was
following directions on the label, I over-fertilized and was killing the
roses.

I talked to Ortho and right away they said I should not use Rose Pride
in containers. I asked them why that was not identified on the label.
They had no response, but did offer to replace my roses.

So... this year I started over with identical rose bushes. Before
planting the bare roots, I asked a couple of rose folks at the nurseries
whether I needed to replace the soil because of over-fertilizing last
year. They each said "no" because it would have dissipated with
watering... and rains during the winter season, so in February I planted
the new rose bushes.

The Sunbright seemed to take well, but the Mr Lincoln soon lost one of
the four canes present when planting. Each of the other canes have
turned dark above the top shoot... I have to call them shoots because
some of them are barely an eighth of an inch in diameter... about the
size that appears near the end of the year. No new canes from the bud
union have appeared whereas last year both plants had a number of new
canes by this time... and plenty of flowers.

As stated above, I'm at a loss.

Thank you, in advance for any comments/suggestions you may have... Jim

Hi Jim

I have just moved into a new home and there are a few rose bushes that
look rather the worse for wear, they have grown tall and sparse, can I
save them.

Thanks









Jim Lindholm wrote in message ...
I have two new bare root rose bushes in large containers that are
pathetic looking... the leaves are small, the canes are small and
flowering on one (Sunbright) is about half its normal size. The other
bush (Mr Lincoln) has not even flowered and quite frankly, I don't think
it will. I'm at a loss...

let me give a little background. Last year in late February I planted
exactly the same rose bushes... a Mr Lincoln and a Sunbright. Since I
had taken a break from growing roses due to the drought in the late
1980's, I removed all soil from the containers and started afresh, using
Miracle-Gro Enhanced Planting Mix. After setting the bushes, I watered
with Miracle-Gro Rose Plant Food. Man did I have great looking roses.
The flowering was huge. New canes grew large and tall. I was really
pleased.

At the beginning of each month I would feed each plant with the
recommended amount of Ortho Rose Pride, then in August I noticed that
the rose bushes were not doing well. At the same time... about June I
was hit hard with powdery mildew. Because of birds just inside my patio,
I treated with neem oil and thought the decline of my roses was an
effect of the powdery mildew. Bottom line is that even tho I was
following directions on the label, I over-fertilized and was killing the
roses.

I talked to Ortho and right away they said I should not use Rose Pride
in containers. I asked them why that was not identified on the label.
They had no response, but did offer to replace my roses.

So... this year I started over with identical rose bushes. Before
planting the bare roots, I asked a couple of rose folks at the nurseries
whether I needed to replace the soil because of over-fertilizing last
year. They each said "no" because it would have dissipated with
watering... and rains during the winter season, so in February I planted
the new rose bushes.

The Sunbright seemed to take well, but the Mr Lincoln soon lost one of
the four canes present when planting. Each of the other canes have
turned dark above the top shoot... I have to call them shoots because
some of them are barely an eighth of an inch in diameter... about the
size that appears near the end of the year. No new canes from the bud
union have appeared whereas last year both plants had a number of new
canes by this time... and plenty of flowers.

As stated above, I'm at a loss.

Thank you, in advance for any comments/suggestions you may have... Jim

Jim,

First some disclaimers.

Roses do not like to be in containers.
Growing them in containers is a painstaking
careful process. As you have seen decline
can come quickly and recovery impossible.

That said I grow many roses in pots both indoors
and out doors. Here's my advice.

1. Replace soil immediately. While you got conflicting info
the soil is not good for your rose.
2. Roses don't seem to like the miracle grow mixes. They like
some actual soil they can sink their teeth into. A 1/2 peat
1/2 Hummus mix is perfect.
3. Never ever use chemical fertilizer in pots. If you absolutely must,
use the the time release pellet ortho stuff.
4. Get a bottle of fish emulsion and use @ half strength.
5. Keep the roots cool w/ insulation or shading. Rose
roots do not like to be warm. Their ideal tempreture
is 40-50F so keep that in mind. Keep as cool as possible.

--
Theo

in Kansas City Z5/Z6?



"Jim Lindholm" wrote in message
...
I have two new bare root rose bushes in large containers that are
pathetic looking... the leaves are small, the canes are small and
flowering on one (Sunbright) is about half its normal size. The other
bush (Mr Lincoln) has not even flowered and quite frankly, I don't think
it will. I'm at a loss...

let me give a little background. Last year in late February I planted
exactly the same rose bushes... a Mr Lincoln and a Sunbright. Since I
had taken a break from growing roses due to the drought in the late
1980's, I removed all soil from the containers and started afresh, using
Miracle-Gro Enhanced Planting Mix. After setting the bushes, I watered
with Miracle-Gro Rose Plant Food. Man did I have great looking roses.
The flowering was huge. New canes grew large and tall. I was really
pleased.

At the beginning of each month I would feed each plant with the
recommended amount of Ortho Rose Pride, then in August I noticed that
the rose bushes were not doing well. At the same time... about June I
was hit hard with powdery mildew. Because of birds just inside my patio,
I treated with neem oil and thought the decline of my roses was an
effect of the powdery mildew. Bottom line is that even tho I was
following directions on the label, I over-fertilized and was killing the
roses.

I talked to Ortho and right away they said I should not use Rose Pride
in containers. I asked them why that was not identified on the label.
They had no response, but did offer to replace my roses.

So... this year I started over with identical rose bushes. Before
planting the bare roots, I asked a couple of rose folks at the nurseries
whether I needed to replace the soil because of over-fertilizing last
year. They each said "no" because it would have dissipated with
watering... and rains during the winter season, so in February I planted
the new rose bushes.

The Sunbright seemed to take well, but the Mr Lincoln soon lost one of
the four canes present when planting. Each of the other canes have
turned dark above the top shoot... I have to call them shoots because
some of them are barely an eighth of an inch in diameter... about the
size that appears near the end of the year. No new canes from the bud
union have appeared whereas last year both plants had a number of new
canes by this time... and plenty of flowers.

As stated above, I'm at a loss.

Thank you, in advance for any comments/suggestions you may have... Jim

Janette what you need to do is trim down your
roses. Don't be afraid. cutting down to a 2 ft stump
is not a problem. It will grow back just fine.

--
Theo

in Kansas City Z5/Z6?

"Janette G" wrote in message
om...
Hi Jim

I have just moved into a new home and there are a few rose bushes that
look rather the worse for wear, they have grown tall and sparse, can I
save them.

Thanks









Jim Lindholm wrote in message
...
I have two new bare root rose bushes in large containers that are
pathetic looking... the leaves are small, the canes are small and
flowering on one (Sunbright) is about half its normal size. The other
bush (Mr Lincoln) has not even flowered and quite frankly, I don't think
it will. I'm at a loss...

let me give a little background. Last year in late February I planted
exactly the same rose bushes... a Mr Lincoln and a Sunbright. Since I
had taken a break from growing roses due to the drought in the late
1980's, I removed all soil from the containers and started afresh, using
Miracle-Gro Enhanced Planting Mix. After setting the bushes, I watered
with Miracle-Gro Rose Plant Food. Man did I have great looking roses.
The flowering was huge. New canes grew large and tall. I was really
pleased.

At the beginning of each month I would feed each plant with the
recommended amount of Ortho Rose Pride, then in August I noticed that
the rose bushes were not doing well. At the same time... about June I
was hit hard with powdery mildew. Because of birds just inside my patio,
I treated with neem oil and thought the decline of my roses was an
effect of the powdery mildew. Bottom line is that even tho I was
following directions on the label, I over-fertilized and was killing the
roses.

I talked to Ortho and right away they said I should not use Rose Pride
in containers. I asked them why that was not identified on the label.
They had no response, but did offer to replace my roses.

So... this year I started over with identical rose bushes. Before
planting the bare roots, I asked a couple of rose folks at the nurseries
whether I needed to replace the soil because of over-fertilizing last
year. They each said "no" because it would have dissipated with
watering... and rains during the winter season, so in February I planted
the new rose bushes.

The Sunbright seemed to take well, but the Mr Lincoln soon lost one of
the four canes present when planting. Each of the other canes have
turned dark above the top shoot... I have to call them shoots because
some of them are barely an eighth of an inch in diameter... about the
size that appears near the end of the year. No new canes from the bud
union have appeared whereas last year both plants had a number of new
canes by this time... and plenty of flowers.

As stated above, I'm at a loss.

Thank you, in advance for any comments/suggestions you may have... Jim

"Theo" wrote:

[...]
2. Roses don't seem to like the miracle grow mixes. They like
some actual soil they can sink their teeth into. A 1/2 peat
1/2 Hummus mix is perfect.

Chickpea or fava bean hummus? And what about pieces of
pita bread as mulch?

Mark., sorry, couldn't resist

"Theo" wrote in message
s.com...
Jim,

First some disclaimers.

Roses do not like to be in containers.

I'm going to have to disagree on this one. Roses like to be in containers
just fine as long as the roses are are the right variety, the containers are
big enough, they get enough water, and the feeding schedule is about twice
what it would be in the ground. The frequent waterings leach out the
nutrients rapidly, and thus they need to be constantly replaced. I
recommend a water soluble fertilizer used half strength twice as often. As a
rule, hybrid teas are poorer choices for pot culture than are floribundas,
polyanthas, chinas, teas, or miniatures. They just get too tall in relation
to the pot size provided, unless you are planting everything in 24" pots.


Growing them in containers is a painstaking
careful process. As you have seen decline
can come quickly and recovery impossible.

That said I grow many roses in pots both indoors
and out doors. Here's my advice.

1. Replace soil immediately. While you got conflicting info
the soil is not good for your rose.

Oh yeah, I agree with this one. That RosePride crap has an insecticide in
it that builds up and stunts roses in the long term. Ones in pots can get a
toxic dose pretty quickly because it isn't that water soluble.

2. Roses don't seem to like the miracle grow mixes. They like
some actual soil they can sink their teeth into. A 1/2 peat
1/2 Hummus mix is perfect.

I disagree with this. Soiless mixes are the best over time. They drain
better, and retain water beter. Peat has hydrophobic qualities that make it
almost impossible to wet once it ever dries out, plus it's also hydrophyllic
and extremely soggy when it is wet. When it's dry, you end up watering the
pot, and the water just runs through it, without ever actually moistening
the soil.

3. Never ever use chemical fertilizer in pots. If you absolutely must,
use the the time release pellet ortho stuff.

This is where I really disagree. The artificial climate of a pot *demands*
that you use chemical fertilizers. THere just aren't enough happy organisms
to break down organic fertilizers that well. As I said above, a water
soluble fertilizer at half strength twice as often keeps them well fed and
you don't lose too many nutrients from leaching because of the more constant
supply. This is what many of the good quality nurseries recommend for their
baby roses in pots, and it's what I do and it works great.

4. Get a bottle of fish emulsion and use @ half strength.

I like fish emulsion on roses in the ground, but, well, it's awful stinky
for container roses that are close to your entrance way or on a patio where
you congegate often.

5. Keep the roots cool w/ insulation or shading. Rose
roots do not like to be warm. Their ideal tempreture
is 40-50F so keep that in mind. Keep as cool as possible.

Agree somewhat. Roses in pots do benefit from mulching to keep them cool,
but the ideal soil temperature, as it is for most woody ornamentals, is
around 60-70. In fact, with roses in the ground, you don't begin to see
substantial new growth until the soil temps do warm up to at least 50. Many
many areas of the country that are extremely warm do quite well in growing
containerized roses with soil temps well into the 90's. A little afternoon
shade, some mulch, and frequent watering are the keys.



Having said all of that, I have to say that Mister Lincoln is one of the
poorer candidates for pot culture. It's simply too large to be easily
handled and gets top heavy for all but the largest pot. It's also one of
the stingier of the scented reds, and for a pot, I'd want a rose that was in
constant bloom. Now Sunbright is an excellent choice. It's disease
resistant, not too big, and it's a frequent bloomer.

I do have to ask where you purchased these roses. The source can sometimes
make or break. And, have you experienced any freezing weather once these
were potted? When you potted them, did you mound the canes with mulch or
spray them with WiltPruf? Bare roots do not have any feeder roots with
which to hydrate the plant, and if you don't keep them from drying out, you
experience symptoms just as you are describing. The initial flush of growth
is from the stored starch in the canes, and then the plant doesn't have
enough roots to sustain it, so it begins dying back.

Sunflower
MS 7b where it was 85 today, and all of the potted roses needed water for
sure.