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Allergy to Bt cotton?
Brian Sandle wrote:
On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 10:11:25 +1200 Brian Harmer wrote: ***** NO SPRAY WORRIES SAYS HEALTH MINISTRY ------------------------------------- The Ministry of Health says it is not yet concerned over the health effects of the Painted Apple Moth spraying programme - despite receiving more than 3000 complaints. Most of the concerns relate to asthma and irritation to eyes, nose and throat from the spray used in Auckland. Around 1100 people have taken these complaints to a doctor associated with the Painted Apple Moth support service. Director of Public Health, Colin Tukuitonga will keep a watching brief on the programme and raise concerns with the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry if they are deemed serious enough. ***** The spray is Bt. Bt has been genetically engineered into cotton plants in an attempt to resist the boll weevil, and they are quite widely planted. Would the lint from Bt cotton undergarments cause any people more lung/eye irritation than non-Bt cotton? I think we do get nutrition through our lungs. Some things are directly absorbed and some broken down a bit? If Bt cotton is in the lungs will there be byssinosis more frequently than for non-Bt? |
Allergy to Bt cotton?
Brian Sandle wrote:
On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 10:11:25 +1200 Brian Harmer wrote: ***** NO SPRAY WORRIES SAYS HEALTH MINISTRY ------------------------------------- The Ministry of Health says it is not yet concerned over the health effects of the Painted Apple Moth spraying programme - despite receiving more than 3000 complaints. Most of the concerns relate to asthma and irritation to eyes, nose and throat from the spray used in Auckland. Around 1100 people have taken these complaints to a doctor associated with the Painted Apple Moth support service. Director of Public Health, Colin Tukuitonga will keep a watching brief on the programme and raise concerns with the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry if they are deemed serious enough. ***** The spray is Bt. Bt has been genetically engineered into cotton plants in an attempt to resist the boll weevil, and they are quite widely planted. Would the lint from Bt cotton undergarments cause any people more lung/eye irritation than non-Bt cotton? I think we do get nutrition through our lungs. Some things are directly absorbed and some broken down a bit? If Bt cotton is in the lungs will there be byssinosis more frequently than for non-Bt? |
Allergy to Bt cotton?
Brian Sandle wrote:
On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 10:11:25 +1200 Brian Harmer wrote: ***** NO SPRAY WORRIES SAYS HEALTH MINISTRY ------------------------------------- The Ministry of Health says it is not yet concerned over the health effects of the Painted Apple Moth spraying programme - despite receiving more than 3000 complaints. Most of the concerns relate to asthma and irritation to eyes, nose and throat from the spray used in Auckland. Around 1100 people have taken these complaints to a doctor associated with the Painted Apple Moth support service. Director of Public Health, Colin Tukuitonga will keep a watching brief on the programme and raise concerns with the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry if they are deemed serious enough. ***** The spray is Bt. Bt has been genetically engineered into cotton plants in an attempt to resist the boll weevil, and they are quite widely planted. Would the lint from Bt cotton undergarments cause any people more lung/eye irritation than non-Bt cotton? I think we do get nutrition through our lungs. Some things are directly absorbed and some broken down a bit? If Bt cotton is in the lungs will there be byssinosis more frequently than for non-Bt? |
Allergy to Bt cotton?
On 18 Aug 2003 23:01:13 GMT, Brian Sandle
posted: Brian Sandle wrote: On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 10:11:25 +1200 Brian Harmer wrote: ***** NO SPRAY WORRIES SAYS HEALTH MINISTRY ------------------------------------- The Ministry of Health says it is not yet concerned over the health effects of the Painted Apple Moth spraying programme - despite receiving more than 3000 complaints. Most of the concerns relate to asthma and irritation to eyes, nose and throat from the spray used in Auckland. Around 1100 people have taken these complaints to a doctor associated with the Painted Apple Moth support service. Director of Public Health, Colin Tukuitonga will keep a watching brief on the programme and raise concerns with the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry if they are deemed serious enough. ***** The spray is Bt. Bt has been genetically engineered into cotton plants in an attempt to resist the boll weevil, and they are quite widely planted. Would the lint from Bt cotton undergarments cause any people more lung/eye irritation than non-Bt cotton? I think we do get nutrition through our lungs. Some things are directly absorbed and some broken down a bit? If Bt cotton is in the lungs will there be byssinosis more frequently than for non-Bt? This reminds me of the story I read long time ago of the aerial crop duster who thoroughly cleaned his tanks and filled up with water flavoured with dark grape juice (toxically purple). He then deliberately oversprayed a residential area, and the influx of diseased and dying residents was overwhelming :) |
Allergy to Bt cotton?
On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 03:23:34 GMT, Mooshie peas
wrote: On 18 Aug 2003 23:01:13 GMT, Brian Sandle posted: Brian Sandle wrote: On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 10:11:25 +1200 Brian Harmer wrote: ***** NO SPRAY WORRIES SAYS HEALTH MINISTRY ------------------------------------- The Ministry of Health says it is not yet concerned over the health effects of the Painted Apple Moth spraying programme - despite receiving more than 3000 complaints. Most of the concerns relate to asthma and irritation to eyes, nose and throat from the spray used in Auckland. Around 1100 people have taken these complaints to a doctor associated with the Painted Apple Moth support service. Director of Public Health, Colin Tukuitonga will keep a watching brief on the programme and raise concerns with the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry if they are deemed serious enough. ***** The spray is Bt. Bt has been genetically engineered into cotton plants in an attempt to resist the boll weevil, and they are quite widely planted. Would the lint from Bt cotton undergarments cause any people more lung/eye irritation than non-Bt cotton? I think we do get nutrition through our lungs. Some things are directly absorbed and some broken down a bit? If Bt cotton is in the lungs will there be byssinosis more frequently than for non-Bt? This reminds me of the story I read long time ago of the aerial crop duster who thoroughly cleaned his tanks and filled up with water flavoured with dark grape juice (toxically purple). He then deliberately oversprayed a residential area, and the influx of diseased and dying residents was overwhelming :) And cotton crops are often sprayed to kill the leaves prior to the bolls being harvested. Cath |
Allergy to Bt cotton?
The spray is Bt. with all due respect the spray is not BT. the active ingredient is BTk. 98% of the spray is Ingredients identified in the Foray 48B spray are methyl paraben (methyl 4-hydroxybenzoate), benzoic acid/sodium benzoate, propylene glycol, potassium sorbate, sorbitol, hydrochloric acid, and polyacrylic acid. The other ingredients - Btk, fermentation solids and water - are already publicly known. all harmless by themselves but some people react badly to this combination in a very fine aerosol when inhaled |
Allergy to Bt cotton?
Mooshie peas wrote:
This reminds me of the story I read long time ago of the aerial crop duster who thoroughly cleaned his tanks and filled up with water flavoured with dark grape juice (toxically purple). He then deliberately oversprayed a residential area, and the influx of diseased and dying residents was overwhelming :) I have had breathing troubles from some brands of grape juice. Some of them use a sulphur compound as preservative. To make water purple with grape juice would take quite a lot, and breathing such is not normal, and might provide a medium for bacteria to grow, too. Yes nocebo(?) effects can occur, as with Pavlov's dogs, but escape or constriction gets attached to certain signals. And I think you will find some people suffering and bearing it rather than be called susceptible to psychogenic factors. The website Brian Harmer referred to links to results of a big study which includes trouble with animlas, too, greater than what I would say could be transferred in sympathy with their owners worries. |
Allergy to Bt cotton?
In nz.general cp1c wrote:
The spray is Bt. with all due respect the spray is not BT. the active ingredient is BTk. Yes, Bt kurtaski. 98% of the spray is Ingredients identified in the Foray 48B spray are methyl paraben (methyl 4-hydroxybenzoate), benzoic acid/sodium benzoate, propylene glycol, potassium sorbate, sorbitol, hydrochloric acid, and polyacrylic acid. The other ingredients - Btk, fermentation solids and water - are already publicly known. The water would be the main component. I agree the other components could be a problem. For me hydrochloric acid is a bit of a constrictor. Polyacrylic acid looks a problem. As I have posted on sci.med.dentistry rabbits exposed to acrylic acid vapour get nasal inflammation. Maybe there is a connection to the bad dermatitis on hands of dental technicians who frequently work with methacrylates. Then di-methacrylate, a basis in much modern white dental filling material, is a very potent sensitizer. (di being `two' - on the way to `poly'.) all harmless by themselves Not for all people. but some people react badly to this combination in a very fine aerosol when inhaled And animals. Some people are advised to use a mask when dealing with soil and Btk is a soil bacteria. In reply to another poster yes the cotton could have had herbcide applied to dry it out prior to harvest. Roundup has been used to dry out some crops prior to harvest. Then the question is what do the farmers use as a `dessicant' if the crop is genetically engineered to be Roundup resistant. I have posted an article with `byssinosis' in the title and it may not have appeared on all servers on the groups in the header, but I see it has got on nz.general on my server. A ref I gave asks whether a GM herbicde tolerant crop turns the herbicde into a toxic degradation product which may increase byssinosis lung disease of cotton workers. Then the question is whether washing would wash that out. But it could not wash out the Bt or herbicide degradation protein which I presume are a part of the fibre structure and which would touch against lung tissue. It might be intersting to do immune reaction tests on workers. They have shown positive on Auckland people exposed to the spray. |
Allergy to Bt cotton?
On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 16:24:59 +1200, "cp1c" wrote:
The spray is Bt. with all due respect the spray is not BT. the active ingredient is BTk. 98% of the spray is Ingredients identified in the Foray 48B spray are methyl paraben Methylparaben has been around for years and is in many products that you probably handle every day. It is added to products for longer shelf life. (methyl 4-hydroxybenzoate), benzoic acid/sodium benzoate, propylene glycol, potassium sorbate, sorbitol, hydrochloric acid, and polyacrylic acid. The other ingredients - Btk, fermentation solids and water - are already publicly known. all harmless by themselves but some people react badly to this combination in a very fine aerosol when inhaled Why should people react to a combination when you state all harmless by themselves? Does not make sense. Cath |
Allergy to Bt cotton?
"Brian Sandle" wrote in message ... Bt has been genetically engineered into cotton plants in an attempt to resist the boll weevil, and they are quite widely planted. It is for the boll worm not the weevil. The weeviel is reltivly easy to conrol pest as it only feeds on cotton and proper management and a spraying in the fall to reduce the over winter weevil and a spray in the spring to catch any you missed and scouting wiht traps has effectivly made them a non problem in two or three year every where as good faith effort has been made. The boll worm or corn ear worm depending on what crop it is eating eats almost any thing and can be held in bay in some cases by natrual preditors but if you have to spray in the fruiting season for boll weevil you run the risk or wiping out the benificials an spraying every 4 to 7 days for the rest of the season for the boll worm. Get your bugs right. Would the lint from Bt cotton undergarments cause any people more lung/eye irritation than non-Bt cotton? There is no protien in cotton fiber, It is all celulose. I think we do get nutrition through our lungs. Some things are directly absorbed and some broken down a bit? If Bt cotton is in the lungs will there be byssinosis more frequently than for non-Bt? If you get very much cotton in your lungs smaller than two microns you have problems do a search on ginners lung. The BT protein would be broken down by the body while the cotton fiber would not be. You need better wind mills. Gordon |
Allergy to Bt cotton?
The spray is Bt. with all due respect the spray is not BT. the active ingredient is BTk. Ingredients identified in the Foray 48B spray are [...] methyl paraben Methylparaben has been around for years and is in many products that you probably handle every day. Unless you're allergic to it, which a lot of people are. Benzoates are often a cross-reacting allergen with salicylates, and salicylate allergy is one of the commoner ones. Usually the forms of salicylate/benzoate/paraben people get exposed to are dietary. Respiratory exposure is unusual, though some people get asthma attacks from handling salicylate-containing fruit. Since asthma is the usual problem from this group of allergens, a spray- delivered product would be virtually certain to give some folks a lot of grief - hits the reacting site a damn sight more efficiently than any food could. Parabens get into an extraordinary range of products and can be very difficult to avoid. Who'd expect an allergy that started out with apples and aspirin to end up making you sensitive to dental plastics? ======== Email to "j-c" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce ======== Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760 http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html food intolerance data & recipes, Mac logic fonts, Scots traditional music files and CD-ROMs of Scottish music. |
Allergy to Bt cotton?
On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:49:38 +0000, bogus address wrote:
Usually the forms of salicylate/benzoate/paraben people get exposed to are dietary. Respiratory exposure is unusual, though some people get asthma attacks from handling salicylate-containing fruit. What fruits naturally contain salicylate? I can understand it if they were chewing willow bark... |
Allergy to Bt cotton?
On 18 Aug 2003 23:01:13 GMT, Brian Sandle
wrote: The spray is Bt. Bt has been genetically engineered into cotton plants in an attempt to resist the boll weevil, and they are quite widely planted. So: do that with a few more plants (which no-one works with on a daily basis or makes underpants out of), and we remove the need for spraying, surely? Would the lint from Bt cotton undergarments cause any people more lung/eye irritation than non-Bt cotton? I think we do get nutrition through our lungs. Some things are directly absorbed and some broken down a bit? If Bt cotton is in the lungs will there be byssinosis more frequently than for non-Bt? Occupational disease affecting cotton workers, characterised by chronic bronchitis, to save anyone else the effort of looking it up. Happens more often on Mondays, apparently. ("Yeah, right!" some rooted cynics may respond.). http://chorus.rad.mcw.edu/doc/00053.html Seriously, I wonder whether there's a genuinely suggested cause for this anomaly. Has anyone other than you, Brian, suggested there is more byssinosis from Bt resistant cotton? On a cursory scan I can see nothing (unfortunately, there's someone called Butcher, BT, who seems to have done a lot of work on byssinosis and cotton, but not as far as I can see on Bt). I'm sure you'll have a reference or two (URLs only, please). Meanwhile, let the double-blind underpant trials commence. I'd be a lot less nervous about taking part than I would about using unbleached loo-paper and bringing my sensitive underparts in contact with the proven carcinogens secreted by those nasty trees. Steve B. |
Allergy to Bt cotton?
Steve B wrote:
On 18 Aug 2003 23:01:13 GMT, Brian Sandle wrote: The spray is Bt. Bt has been genetically engineered into cotton plants in an attempt to resist the boll weevil, and they are quite widely planted. So: do that with a few more plants (which no-one works with on a daily basis or makes underpants out of), and we remove the need for spraying, surely? Isn't it witches don't like applying water? Would the lint from Bt cotton undergarments cause any people more lung/eye irritation than non-Bt cotton? I think we do get nutrition through our lungs. Some things are directly absorbed and some broken down a bit? If Bt cotton is in the lungs will there be byssinosis more frequently than for non-Bt? Occupational disease affecting cotton workers, characterised by chronic bronchitis, to save anyone else the effort of looking it up. Happens more often on Mondays, apparently. ("Yeah, right!" some rooted cynics may respond.). http://chorus.rad.mcw.edu/doc/00053.html [...] Monday morning syndromes stemming from occupational exposure to toxic substances have also been described in cardiology. One of the best known is "Monday Morning Sudden Cardiac Death" among dynamite manufacturing workers, most likely due to acute re-exposure to nitrate esters upon return to work after a brief period of absence [...] from Linkname: Proposed Agenda for OC URL: http://www.workhealth.org/Occ.%20Car...0for%20OC.html size: 1268 lines Seriously, I wonder whether there's a genuinely suggested cause for this anomaly. Apparently steam treatment of the cotton fibre is protective. Is it killing bacteria which grow over the weekend, or moistening the cotton fibers or otherwise making them stick into larger bundles? Has anyone other than you, Brian, suggested there is more byssinosis from Bt resistant cotton? discussed on `byssinosis' thread. On a cursory scan I can see nothing (unfortunately, there's someone called Butcher, BT, who seems to have done a lot of work on byssinosis and cotton, but not as far as I can see on Bt). Who is going to bother to research it? Who is bothering with the lungs of child outworkers helping their parents to get paid for their contracts? I'm sure you'll have a reference or two (URLs only, please). Meanwhile, let the double-blind underpant trials commence. I'd be a lot less nervous about taking part than I would about using unbleached loo-paper and bringing my sensitive underparts in contact with the proven carcinogens secreted by those nasty trees. I think the strong perfumes put into toilet paper may be troublesome. Maybe they swell the tissues into piles, same as might be a result in some people of using anti-angina nitroglycerin spray standing up. I wonder. |
Allergy to Bt cotton?
Usually the forms of salicylate/benzoate/paraben people get exposed to are dietary. Respiratory exposure is unusual, though some people get asthma attacks from handling salicylate-containing fruit. What fruits naturally contain salicylate? Almost all of them. See the list on my website. I can understand it if they were chewing willow bark... Willow bark doesn't. It contains salicin, a chemical precursor of salicylate (probably cross-reactive with it in allergic people but I'm guessing). ======== Email to "j-c" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce ======== Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760 http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html food intolerance data & recipes, Mac logic fonts, Scots traditional music files and CD-ROMs of Scottish music. |
Allergy to Bt cotton?
On 20 Aug 2003 23:05:46 GMT, Brian Sandle
wrote: Steve B wrote: On 18 Aug 2003 23:01:13 GMT, Brian Sandle wrote: The spray is Bt. Bt has been genetically engineered into cotton plants in an attempt to resist the boll weevil, and they are quite widely planted. So: do that with a few more plants (which no-one works with on a daily basis or makes underpants out of), and we remove the need for spraying, surely? Isn't it witches don't like applying water? Would the lint from Bt cotton undergarments cause any people more lung/eye irritation than non-Bt cotton? I think we do get nutrition through our lungs. Some things are directly absorbed and some broken down a bit? If Bt cotton is in the lungs will there be byssinosis more frequently than for non-Bt? Occupational disease affecting cotton workers, characterised by chronic bronchitis, to save anyone else the effort of looking it up. Happens more often on Mondays, apparently. ("Yeah, right!" some rooted cynics may respond.). http://chorus.rad.mcw.edu/doc/00053.html [...] Monday morning syndromes stemming from occupational exposure to toxic substances have also been described in cardiology. One of the best known is "Monday Morning Sudden Cardiac Death" among dynamite manufacturing workers, most likely due to acute re-exposure to nitrate esters upon return to work after a brief period of absence [...] from Linkname: Proposed Agenda for OC URL: http://www.workhealth.org/Occ.%20Car...0for%20OC.html size: 1268 lines Seriously, I wonder whether there's a genuinely suggested cause for this anomaly. Apparently steam treatment of the cotton fibre is protective. Is it killing bacteria which grow over the weekend, or moistening the cotton fibers or otherwise making them stick into larger bundles? Has anyone other than you, Brian, suggested there is more byssinosis from Bt resistant cotton? discussed on `byssinosis' thread. On a cursory scan I can see nothing (unfortunately, there's someone called Butcher, BT, who seems to have done a lot of work on byssinosis and cotton, but not as far as I can see on Bt). Who is going to bother to research it? Who is bothering with the lungs of child outworkers helping their parents to get paid for their contracts? Please explain this further [child outworkers helping their parents etc] Cath I'm sure you'll have a reference or two (URLs only, please). Meanwhile, let the double-blind underpant trials commence. I'd be a lot less nervous about taking part than I would about using unbleached loo-paper and bringing my sensitive underparts in contact with the proven carcinogens secreted by those nasty trees. I think the strong perfumes put into toilet paper may be troublesome. Maybe they swell the tissues into piles, same as might be a result in some people of using anti-angina nitroglycerin spray standing up. I wonder. |
Allergy to Bt cotton?
In sci.agriculture wrote:
On a cursory scan I can see nothing (unfortunately, there's someone called Butcher, BT, who seems to have done a lot of work on byssinosis and cotton, but not as far as I can see on Bt). Who is going to bother to research it? Who is bothering with the lungs of child outworkers helping their parents to get paid for their contracts? Please explain this further [child outworkers helping their parents etc] Linkname: Jan 2001, Child labour in Australian garment industry URL: http://www.cleanclothes.org/campaign/00-01hwaus.htm size: 105 lines I think I have posted in the past refs to lists of companies who do or don't adhere to a code since then. I suppose some famrers will have tales to tell about child labour on farms. Gordon has related stuff to us about the old days. A problem with some farms is the back-breaking work. There is room for ingenious inventors of hand-tools. My back was bad when I was young, but I wasn't doing bend over work. Now I am experimenting with not eating grain, even rice, and my lower back is much better. In a homogeneous society one way may suit everyone, but it may be cruel when people are different. For some the chemicals are the trouble, and they can't read the labels very functionally. Then who is to know when nettles start growing in a Roundup Ready soy, corn, or cotton field, and Roundup lets them grow, and someone says you'll have to get Pursuit and mix it. It works but do they know the extra cautions? The company wants to make money, and may not be the best advisor. Who else is there? |
Allergy to Bt cotton?
Idiot, BT cotton kills boll worms no boll weevil.
Gordon "Steve B" wrote in message ... On 18 Aug 2003 23:01:13 GMT, Brian Sandle wrote: The spray is Bt. Bt has been genetically engineered into cotton plants in an attempt to resist the boll weevil, and they are quite widely planted. So: do that with a few more plants (which no-one works with on a daily basis or makes underpants out of), and we remove the need for spraying, surely? Would the lint from Bt cotton undergarments cause any people more lung/eye irritation than non-Bt cotton? I think we do get nutrition through our lungs. Some things are directly absorbed and some broken down a bit? If Bt cotton is in the lungs will there be byssinosis more frequently than for non-Bt? Occupational disease affecting cotton workers, characterised by chronic bronchitis, to save anyone else the effort of looking it up. Happens more often on Mondays, apparently. ("Yeah, right!" some rooted cynics may respond.). http://chorus.rad.mcw.edu/doc/00053.html Seriously, I wonder whether there's a genuinely suggested cause for this anomaly. Has anyone other than you, Brian, suggested there is more byssinosis from Bt resistant cotton? On a cursory scan I can see nothing (unfortunately, there's someone called Butcher, BT, who seems to have done a lot of work on byssinosis and cotton, but not as far as I can see on Bt). I'm sure you'll have a reference or two (URLs only, please). Meanwhile, let the double-blind underpant trials commence. I'd be a lot less nervous about taking part than I would about using unbleached loo-paper and bringing my sensitive underparts in contact with the proven carcinogens secreted by those nasty trees. Steve B. |
Allergy to Bt cotton?
|
Allergy to Bt cotton?
Gordon Couger wrote:
Idiot, BT cotton kills boll worms no boll weevil. Thanks, Gordon. We note you gave a good explanation on a previous article. I understood that boll weevil has to be treated separately taking care not to kill beneficial organisms. Are the `beneficials' you wrote of i) necessary pollen spreaders ii) parasites or predators which kill boll worms? It is all quite complex and maybe the knowledge of the farmers of old will pay off. Now they are finding in China that mixing lots of different rice produces much more yield, makes better use of soil micro-organisms and produces less greenhouse gas - methane. If you happen to want individual types of rice maybe the technology these days could go into designing a machine to do the job. That might cost a bit but the extra yield could more than make up for it. In the old days the technology to design the machine would nto have been so easy. Same with all sorts of weeding technology, too. Sorting could even develop to sort crops from beneficial weeds which might grow with them, and perhaps shade other weeds to stop them growing. As Jim said billions has gone on BSE research which may have saved more lives elsewhere. We weren't quite sure about that. But since weeds are getting resistant to Roundup, or the weeds which were already resistant are much more prevalent, and so many billions have been spent on producing the Roundup Ready system, it might have been better to spread the research a bit. |
Allergy to Bt cotton?
On 20 Aug 2003 05:19:17 GMT, Brian Sandle
posted: Mooshie peas wrote: This reminds me of the story I read long time ago of the aerial crop duster who thoroughly cleaned his tanks and filled up with water flavoured with dark grape juice (toxically purple). He then deliberately oversprayed a residential area, and the influx of diseased and dying residents was overwhelming :) I have had breathing troubles from some brands of grape juice. Some of them use a sulphur compound as preservative. SO2, but this will oxidise and dissipate on being sprayed. To make water purple with grape juice would take quite a lot, and breathing such is not normal, and might provide a medium for bacteria to grow, too. They weren't breathing it, it just landed as droplets on the environment. I don't even know if this is true or just an urban myth. Yes nocebo(?) effects can occur, as with Pavlov's dogs, but escape or constriction gets attached to certain signals. And I think you will find some people suffering and bearing it rather than be called susceptible to psychogenic factors. The website Brian Harmer referred to links to results of a big study which includes trouble with animlas, too, greater than what I would say could be transferred in sympathy with their owners worries. Thanks for "nocebo" I'd not heard it before. Useful! |
Allergy to Bt cotton?
On 20 Aug 2003 05:47:08 GMT, Brian Sandle
posted: In nz.general cp1c wrote: The spray is Bt. with all due respect the spray is not BT. the active ingredient is BTk. Yes, Bt kurtaski. 98% of the spray is Ingredients identified in the Foray 48B spray are methyl paraben (methyl 4-hydroxybenzoate), benzoic acid/sodium benzoate, propylene glycol, potassium sorbate, sorbitol, hydrochloric acid, and polyacrylic acid. The other ingredients - Btk, fermentation solids and water - are already publicly known. The water would be the main component. I agree the other components could be a problem. For me hydrochloric acid is a bit of a constrictor. Polyacrylic acid looks a problem. As I have posted on sci.med.dentistry rabbits exposed to acrylic acid vapour get nasal inflammation. Maybe there is a connection to the bad dermatitis on hands of dental technicians who frequently work with methacrylates. Then di-methacrylate, a basis in much modern white dental filling material, is a very potent sensitizer. (di being `two' - on the way to `poly'.) all harmless by themselves Not for all people. but some people react badly to this combination in a very fine aerosol when inhaled And animals. Some people are advised to use a mask when dealing with soil and Btk is a soil bacteria. The soil is full of many different bacteria. We are warned about Legionella in potting mixes here. In reply to another poster yes the cotton could have had herbcide applied to dry it out prior to harvest. Roundup has been used to dry out some crops prior to harvest. Then the question is what do the farmers use as a `dessicant' if the crop is genetically engineered to be Roundup resistant. Any other cheap, suitable herbicide. I have posted an article with `byssinosis' in the title and it may not have appeared on all servers on the groups in the header, but I see it has got on nz.general on my server. A ref I gave asks whether a GM herbicde tolerant crop turns the herbicde into a toxic degradation product which may increase byssinosis lung disease of cotton workers. Then the question is whether washing would wash that out. But it could not wash out the Bt or herbicide degradation protein which I presume are a part of the fibre structure and which would touch against lung tissue. The fibre is practically pure cellulose. Poly glucose. It might be intersting to do immune reaction tests on workers. They have shown positive on Auckland people exposed to the spray. But cotton? |
Allergy to Bt cotton?
"Brian Sandle" wrote in message ... Gordon Couger wrote: Idiot, BT cotton kills boll worms no boll weevil. Thanks, Gordon. We note you gave a good explanation on a previous article. I understood that boll weevil has to be treated separately taking care not to kill beneficial organisms. Are the `beneficials' you wrote of i) necessary pollen spreaders ii) parasites or predators which kill boll worms? Parasites to kill other insects. Boll worms are the most important. It is all quite complex and maybe the knowledge of the farmers of old will pay off. Now they are finding in China that mixing lots of different rice produces much more yield, makes better use of soil micro-organisms and produces less greenhouse gas - methane. If you happen to want individual types of rice maybe the technology these days could go into designing a machine to do the job. That might cost a bit but the extra yield could more than make up for it. In the old days the technology to design the machine would nto have been so easy. Same with all sorts of weeding technology, too. Sorting could even develop to sort crops from beneficial weeds which might grow with them, and perhaps shade other weeds to stop them growing. ========== Mixed varities give you a better shot at different conditions and if they have different disease resistance it is more difficlut for disease to spread and the uneffected rice will yield more than it would if it had healty competition. I don't know about rice but it make little differce if the ground is clean if you plant 25 or 125 pounds of wheat per acre on the yeild. There may be an exception but I never saw a weed that didn't reduce the yeild of the crop and I have seen a lot of both. As Jim said billions has gone on BSE research which may have saved more lives elsewhere. We weren't quite sure about that. But since weeds are getting resistant to Roundup, or the weeds which were already resistant are much more prevalent, and so many billions have been spent on producing the Roundup Ready system, it might have been better to spread the research a bit. ======== First most of it was private money on the Round up ready system and it replaces herbicides that have a very negative effect on the environment. There are weed resistant to every herbicide but there are ways to manage them. It took over 20 years for 4 or 5 weeds to develop resistance to Round Up. The money spent 600,000 cattle and 120 people with BSE would have save more lives applied to almost anything safety related. Finding one cow with BSE in Canada wrecked their beef business for at least 3 years over something that has less risk than being hit by lighting. You have no perception of risk analysis when you are concerned with GM crops and BSE while there are drunk drivers on the road, west Nile virus, and people refusing to vaccinate their children. All things that something can be done about. Gordon |
Allergy to Bt cotton?
On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 18:59:59 +0000, "Uncle StoatWarbler"
posted: What fruits naturally contain salicylate? I can understand it if they were chewing willow bark... Apples...? |
Allergy to Bt cotton?
On 20 Aug 2003 23:05:46 GMT, Brian Sandle
posted: On a cursory scan I can see nothing (unfortunately, there's someone called Butcher, BT, who seems to have done a lot of work on byssinosis and cotton, but not as far as I can see on Bt). Who is going to bother to research it? Plenty of scientists looking for phenomena to explore, or at least I've known a few. Who is bothering with the lungs of child outworkers helping their parents to get paid for their contracts? See above. I'm sure you'll have a reference or two (URLs only, please). Meanwhile, let the double-blind underpant trials commence. I'd be a lot less nervous about taking part than I would about using unbleached loo-paper and bringing my sensitive underparts in contact with the proven carcinogens secreted by those nasty trees. I think the strong perfumes put into toilet paper may be troublesome. Which ones? Using the generic term "perfumes" is as useless as using the generic term "pesticides". They are both a very broad group of substances. Maybe they swell the tissues into piles, same as might be a result in some people of using anti-angina nitroglycerin spray standing up. I wonder. Ummm, the mechanism of haemorrhoid formation and the action of nitroglycerin on smooth muscle are hardly connected, I would have thought. Haemorrhoids are genetic, in the main. Even with NO constipation during one's life, they will form in some, and with chronic constipation all ones life some will avoid them. |
Allergy to Bt cotton?
On 21 Aug 2003 06:56:45 GMT, Brian Sandle
posted: A problem with some farms is the back-breaking work. That's why they have invented machinery There is room for ingenious inventors of hand-tools. In what area? Haven't most jobs got a wealth of tools available for their carrying out? My back was bad when I was young, but I wasn't doing bend over work. Now I am experimenting with not eating grain, even rice, and my lower back is much better. From the hand harvest? Really? In a homogeneous society one way may suit everyone, but it may be cruel when people are different. For some the chemicals are the trouble, and they can't read the labels very functionally. Then the folks who know about this tell them IME. Then who is to know when nettles start growing Perhaps the half intelligent farmer and above? in a Roundup Ready soy, corn, or cotton field, and Roundup lets them grow, and someone says you'll have to get Pursuit and mix it. And they don't know all about this long ago? Strange scenario you paint. It works but do they know the extra cautions? Um, they read the label, authorised by the EPA? The company wants to make money, That's their sole and proper aim in life. Caveat emptor. and may not be the best advisor. Who else is there? EPA, Ag department, Ag advisor, farmers groups, internet. |
Allergy to Bt cotton?
"Mooshie peas" wrote in message ... On 21 Aug 2003 06:56:45 GMT, Brian Sandle posted: The company wants to make money, That's their sole and proper aim in life. Caveat emptor. exactly, it is only by making money that they can pay employees and also pay tax which goes towards the paying of all those civil servants, public health workers, and similar Jim Webster |
Allergy to Bt cotton?
In sci.med.nutrition Jim Webster wrote:
"Mooshie peas" wrote in message ... On 21 Aug 2003 06:56:45 GMT, Brian Sandle posted: The company wants to make money, That's their sole and proper aim in life. Caveat emptor. exactly, it is only by making money that they can pay employees and also pay tax which goes towards the paying of all those civil servants, public health workers, and similar But it also means they may not bother to be too careful about helping their customers to attend to the proper choices, the refuges if it means selling less GM seed, or herbicide or pesticide if it frightens the customer off to draw their attention to the instructions. |
Allergy to Bt cotton?
"Brian Sandle" wrote in message ... In sci.med.nutrition Jim Webster wrote: "Mooshie peas" wrote in message ... On 21 Aug 2003 06:56:45 GMT, Brian Sandle posted: The company wants to make money, That's their sole and proper aim in life. Caveat emptor. exactly, it is only by making money that they can pay employees and also pay tax which goes towards the paying of all those civil servants, public health workers, and similar But it also means they may not bother to be too careful about helping their customers to attend to the proper choices, the refuges if it means selling less GM seed, or herbicide or pesticide if it frightens the customer off to draw their attention to the instructions. You might as well, and with as much evidence, claim that actually it is the civil servants living of these immoral earnings which drive them to it. Jim Webster |
Allergy to Bt cotton?
In sci.med.nutrition Mooshie peas wrote:
On 20 Aug 2003 23:05:46 GMT, Brian Sandle posted: On a cursory scan I can see nothing (unfortunately, there's someone called Butcher, BT, who seems to have done a lot of work on byssinosis and cotton, but not as far as I can see on Bt). Who is going to bother to research it? Plenty of scientists looking for phenomena to explore, or at least I've known a few. And who wants to fund it? Who is bothering with the lungs of child outworkers helping their parents to get paid for their contracts? See above. I'm sure you'll have a reference or two (URLs only, please). Meanwhile, let the double-blind underpant trials commence. I'd be a lot less nervous about taking part than I would about using unbleached loo-paper and bringing my sensitive underparts in contact with the proven carcinogens secreted by those nasty trees. I think the strong perfumes put into toilet paper may be troublesome. Which ones? Using the generic term "perfumes" is as useless as using the generic term "pesticides". They are both a very broad group of substances. Maybe they swell the tissues into piles, same as might be a result in some people of using anti-angina nitroglycerin spray standing up. I wonder. Ummm, the mechanism of haemorrhoid formation and the action of nitroglycerin on smooth muscle are hardly connected, I would have thought. Haemorrhoids are genetic, in the main. Even with NO constipation during one's life, they will form in some, and with chronic constipation all ones life some will avoid them. Some types of haemorrhoids are filled with blood more than others. Sometimes the doc will let the blood out. Smooth muscle is the muscle of the arteries. Nitroglycerin relaxes the smooth muscle and so blood pressure drops as more blood flows through relaxed arteries. Any tendency to a haemorrhoid may be supplied with more blood. If the patient is walking the haemorrhoid may grow and get pinched by the anal sphincter. Inflammaiton may occur causing swollen tissue in the area, too. |
Allergy to Bt cotton?
In sci.med.nutrition Jim Webster wrote:
"Brian Sandle" wrote in message ... In sci.med.nutrition Jim Webster wrote: "Mooshie peas" wrote in message ... On 21 Aug 2003 06:56:45 GMT, Brian Sandle posted: The company wants to make money, That's their sole and proper aim in life. Caveat emptor. exactly, it is only by making money that they can pay employees and also pay tax which goes towards the paying of all those civil servants, public health workers, and similar But it also means they may not bother to be too careful about helping their customers to attend to the proper choices, the refuges if it means selling less GM seed, or herbicide or pesticide if it frightens the customer off to draw their attention to the instructions. You might as well, and with as much evidence, claim that actually it is the civil servants living of these immoral earnings which drive them to it. The refuges may be in the Monsanto contracts, but can the civil servants police what the farmers do? It is up to the local Monsanto agent. |
Allergy to Bt cotton?
"Brian Sandle" wrote in message ... In sci.med.nutrition Jim Webster wrote: "Brian Sandle" wrote in message ... In sci.med.nutrition Jim Webster wrote: "Mooshie peas" wrote in message ... On 21 Aug 2003 06:56:45 GMT, Brian Sandle posted: The company wants to make money, That's their sole and proper aim in life. Caveat emptor. exactly, it is only by making money that they can pay employees and also pay tax which goes towards the paying of all those civil servants, public health workers, and similar But it also means they may not bother to be too careful about helping their customers to attend to the proper choices, the refuges if it means selling less GM seed, or herbicide or pesticide if it frightens the customer off to draw their attention to the instructions. You might as well, and with as much evidence, claim that actually it is the civil servants living of these immoral earnings which drive them to it. The refuges may be in the Monsanto contracts, but can the civil servants police what the farmers do? a government which passes a law and makes no attempt to police that law has failed in its responsibilities It is up to the local Monsanto agent. perhaps you would like private companies to be made responsible for other forms of crime prevention and the administration of justice? Jim Webster |
Allergy to Bt cotton?
On 21 Aug 2003 06:56:45 GMT, Brian Sandle
wrote: In sci.agriculture wrote: On a cursory scan I can see nothing (unfortunately, there's someone called Butcher, BT, who seems to have done a lot of work on byssinosis and cotton, but not as far as I can see on Bt). Who is going to bother to research it? Who is bothering with the lungs of child outworkers helping their parents to get paid for their contracts? Please explain this further [child outworkers helping their parents etc] Linkname: Jan 2001, Child labour in Australian garment industry URL: http://www.cleanclothes.org/campaign/00-01hwaus.htm size: 105 lines I think I have posted in the past refs to lists of companies who do or don't adhere to a code since then. I suppose some famrers will have tales to tell about child labour on farms. Gordon has related stuff to us about the old days. A problem with some farms is the back-breaking work. My oh picked cotton along with his siblings and parents as long as he can remember in the hot Texas sun every summer. Picking cotton was a financial necessity for the family and for the many other families who also did it. They got 5c a pound - and if you have handled cotton bolls you know light it is. Yeah, it beat the shit out of their hands and they had achy backs every night but years later, and his Dad is nearing 90, none have suffered any disability - they all have very good backs for their age. Last Thursday we stopped and watched the mechanical pickers not far from us as they scooped up what is expected to be a bumper new season's crop and not due to any spraying. There is room for ingenious inventors of hand-tools. My back was bad when I was young, but I wasn't doing bend over work. From what? Were you taken to a doctor by your parent/s/caregiver/s? If so, what was the diagnosis and what treatment/s were recommended? If not taken to a doctor, is there any particular reason why you weren't? As a young adult or an adult, have you sought any advice et al? Now I am experimenting with not eating grain, even rice, and my lower back is much better. Again, have you been diagnosed with any condition? In a homogeneous society one way may suit everyone, but it may be cruel when people are different. For some the chemicals are the trouble, and they can't read the labels very functionally. Then who is to know when nettles start growing in a Roundup Ready soy, corn, or cotton field, and Roundup lets them grow, and someone says you'll have to get Pursuit and mix it. It works but do they know the extra cautions? The company wants to make money, and may not be the best advisor. Who else is there? Cath |
Allergy to Bt cotton?
On 24 Aug 2003 11:20:27 GMT, Brian Sandle
posted: In sci.med.nutrition Jim Webster wrote: "Mooshie peas" wrote in message ... On 21 Aug 2003 06:56:45 GMT, Brian Sandle posted: The company wants to make money, That's their sole and proper aim in life. Caveat emptor. exactly, it is only by making money that they can pay employees and also pay tax which goes towards the paying of all those civil servants, public health workers, and similar But it also means they may not bother to be too careful about helping their customers to attend to the proper choices, the refuges if it means selling less GM seed, or herbicide or pesticide if it frightens the customer off to draw their attention to the instructions. That's the job of the regulator you elected. Please get the job designations right, or you will be ever disappointed. |
Allergy to Bt cotton?
On 20 Aug 2003 23:05:46 GMT, Brian Sandle
wrote: Steve B wrote: On 18 Aug 2003 23:01:13 GMT, Brian Sandle wrote: The spray is Bt. Bt has been genetically engineered into cotton plants in an attempt to resist the boll weevil, and they are quite widely planted. So: do that with a few more plants (which no-one works with on a daily basis or makes underpants out of), and we remove the need for spraying, surely? Isn't it witches don't like applying water? Would the lint from Bt cotton undergarments cause any people more lung/eye irritation than non-Bt cotton? I think we do get nutrition through our lungs. Some things are directly absorbed and some broken down a bit? If Bt cotton is in the lungs will there be byssinosis more frequently than for non-Bt? Occupational disease affecting cotton workers, characterised by chronic bronchitis, to save anyone else the effort of looking it up. Happens more often on Mondays, apparently. ("Yeah, right!" some rooted cynics may respond.). http://chorus.rad.mcw.edu/doc/00053.html [...] Monday morning syndromes stemming from occupational exposure to toxic substances have also been described in cardiology. One of the best known is "Monday Morning Sudden Cardiac Death" among dynamite manufacturing workers, most likely due to acute re-exposure to nitrate esters upon return to work after a brief period of absence [...] from Linkname: Proposed Agenda for OC URL: http://www.workhealth.org/Occ.%20Car...0for%20OC.html size: 1268 lines Seriously, I wonder whether there's a genuinely suggested cause for this anomaly. Apparently steam treatment of the cotton fibre is protective. Is it killing bacteria which grow over the weekend, or moistening the cotton fibers or otherwise making them stick into larger bundles? Has anyone other than you, Brian, suggested there is more byssinosis from Bt resistant cotton? discussed on `byssinosis' thread. On a cursory scan I can see nothing (unfortunately, there's someone called Butcher, BT, who seems to have done a lot of work on byssinosis and cotton, but not as far as I can see on Bt). Who is going to bother to research it? Who is bothering with the lungs of child outworkers helping their parents to get paid for their contracts? Please explain this further [child outworkers helping their parents etc] Cath I'm sure you'll have a reference or two (URLs only, please). Meanwhile, let the double-blind underpant trials commence. I'd be a lot less nervous about taking part than I would about using unbleached loo-paper and bringing my sensitive underparts in contact with the proven carcinogens secreted by those nasty trees. I think the strong perfumes put into toilet paper may be troublesome. Maybe they swell the tissues into piles, same as might be a result in some people of using anti-angina nitroglycerin spray standing up. I wonder. |
Allergy to Bt cotton?
The company wants to make money, [...] But it also means they may not bother to be too careful about helping their customers to attend to the proper choices, the refuges if it means selling less GM seed, or herbicide or pesticide if it frightens the customer off to draw their attention to the instructions. That's the job of the regulator you elected. Please get the job designations right, or you will be ever disappointed. I doubt there is any country in the world where people get to elect agribiz regulators (certainly not New Zealand, where Brian's posting from). They're appointees, the appointments being made by governments that are uniformly in the pockets of agribiz. In this situation you can't expect them to take any decision that might affect their de facto employers' profits. The regulatory system is designed neither to work nor to be responsive to democratic control, so there is no realistic alternative to direct action in this instance. ======== Email to "j-c" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce ======== Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760 http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html food intolerance data & recipes, Mac logic fonts, Scots traditional music files and CD-ROMs of Scottish music. |
Allergy to Bt cotton?
In sci.med.nutrition Mooshie peas wrote:
On 24 Aug 2003 11:20:27 GMT, Brian Sandle posted: In sci.med.nutrition Jim Webster wrote: "Mooshie peas" wrote in message ... On 21 Aug 2003 06:56:45 GMT, Brian Sandle posted: The company wants to make money, That's their sole and proper aim in life. Caveat emptor. exactly, it is only by making money that they can pay employees and also pay tax which goes towards the paying of all those civil servants, public health workers, and similar But it also means they may not bother to be too careful about helping their customers to attend to the proper choices, the refuges if it means selling less GM seed, or herbicide or pesticide if it frightens the customer off to draw their attention to the instructions. That's the job of the regulator you elected. Please get the job designations right, or you will be ever disappointed. The regulator has got Monsanto to write it into the contract with the intention of policing it that way. They could have gone around the farms themselves and educated every farmer and told them what to buy from Monsanto, and policed it themselves. Better? |
Allergy to Bt cotton?
"bogus address" wrote in message ... The company wants to make money, [...] But it also means they may not bother to be too careful about helping their customers to attend to the proper choices, the refuges if it means selling less GM seed, or herbicide or pesticide if it frightens the customer off to draw their attention to the instructions. That's the job of the regulator you elected. Please get the job designations right, or you will be ever disappointed. I doubt there is any country in the world where people get to elect agribiz regulators (certainly not New Zealand, where Brian's posting from). They're appointees, the appointments being made by governments that are uniformly in the pockets of agribiz. In this situation you can't expect them to take any decision that might affect their de facto employers' profits. then change the government The regulatory system is designed neither to work nor to be responsive to democratic control, so there is no realistic alternative to direct action in this instance. I'm sorry you live in a country with no democratic accountability Jim Webster |
Allergy to Bt cotton?
On 24 Aug 2003 14:08:36 GMT, Brian Sandle
posted: In sci.med.nutrition Mooshie peas wrote: On 20 Aug 2003 23:05:46 GMT, Brian Sandle posted: On a cursory scan I can see nothing (unfortunately, there's someone called Butcher, BT, who seems to have done a lot of work on byssinosis and cotton, but not as far as I can see on Bt). Who is going to bother to research it? Plenty of scientists looking for phenomena to explore, or at least I've known a few. And who wants to fund it? Research institutes, governments, universities, individual citizens, trusts.... Who is bothering with the lungs of child outworkers helping their parents to get paid for their contracts? See above. I'm sure you'll have a reference or two (URLs only, please). Meanwhile, let the double-blind underpant trials commence. I'd be a lot less nervous about taking part than I would about using unbleached loo-paper and bringing my sensitive underparts in contact with the proven carcinogens secreted by those nasty trees. I think the strong perfumes put into toilet paper may be troublesome. Which ones? Using the generic term "perfumes" is as useless as using the generic term "pesticides". They are both a very broad group of substances. Maybe they swell the tissues into piles, same as might be a result in some people of using anti-angina nitroglycerin spray standing up. I wonder. Ummm, the mechanism of haemorrhoid formation and the action of nitroglycerin on smooth muscle are hardly connected, I would have thought. Haemorrhoids are genetic, in the main. Even with NO constipation during one's life, they will form in some, and with chronic constipation all ones life some will avoid them. Some types of haemorrhoids are filled with blood more than others. No, they are all varicose veins. Sometimes the doc will let the blood out. If it's been trapped. He can put a ligature on the varicosed vessel until it drops off. Like lambs' tails. Smooth muscle is the muscle of the arteries. Nitroglycerin relaxes the smooth muscle and so blood pressure drops as more blood flows through relaxed arteries. Any tendency to a haemorrhoid may be supplied with more blood. Why? If the bp drops? If the patient is walking the haemorrhoid may grow and get pinched by the anal sphincter. Inflammaiton may occur causing swollen tissue in the area, too. Yep. |
Allergy to Bt cotton?
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