On Thu, 6 May 2004 15:15:59 -0500, "RoyDMercer"
opined:

"Victor Martinez" wrote in message
...
RoyDMercer wrote:
them each year. However if you let them go they will eventually stop
blooming. The state of Oklahoma planted hundres of Crape Myrtles all
along
the southern section of I-35. They are never pruned and they have
stopped
blooming almost completely.

That's funny. My neighbor's crape mirtles have never been pruned
(they're over 25 ft tall) and they bloom beautifully each year.

There are literally hundreds of cultivars of Crepes and not all of them
behave the same. My mom has one so tall it's as high as the power lines and
it blooms each year (without pruning) also. Crepes which are that large are
really more of a tree and tend to behave a bit differently than the lower
habit shrubs which are more typical.


I beg to differ. There are only a handful of dwarf varieties and not one of
them requires the treatment of heavy pruning. A tree or shrub which flowers on
new growth does so naturally. When you cut a crape to an inch of its life, sure
it's going to bloom excessively. It is trying to make seeds to continue its own
survival in nature. It's sort of like the false economy. We are being told how
it's growing at the fastest rate, when really it's only starting to recover,
masked at recovery. Anyone with a portfolio knows what I'm talking about.

Political statement aside (Anybody But Bush), pruning crape myrtles is
absolutely not necessary for the plant to bloom.

"Babberney" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 03 May 2004 13:56:57 GMT, "Chris" wrote:

My front crepe myrtle has a very bad case of powdery mildew. It had it
last
year, too, and never flowered. How do I stop this cycle? Someone
posted
something about using a milk solution. Does this work? I bought some
really nasty stuff last year that required me to wear protective clothing
and a ventilator when I applied it. Supposedly it killed everything. It
didn't appear to work and, given that almost everything else I use is
environmentally-reasonable, I'd rather not use that again.



Any suggestions?
Thanks.
Chris


Well, I disagree with almost everything Roy has said about pruning
crapes. I never prune mine ( full grown when I moved in 10 years ago,
probably 40 years old or more total) except to remove root sprouts,
the occasional dead branch, and low limbs that hit the house or poke
my eye. They are close to 25' tall (i.e., they ain't getting much
taller) and they always bloom well.

Topping is a brutal practice--not "murder" perhaps, but it will
drastically shorten the life of the plant. When you remove all the
plant's energy reserves every year, you deplete stored starches and
sugars to the point they can no longer afford to make flowers--they're
just struggling to survive. Thin out the cluster of sprouts that grow
this year, but leave 2 or 3 strong whips on each stub, and let them
develop into branches over time. Don't top anymore and leave the poor
things alone and they'll recover eventually. Yes, I know some people
top annually and still get lots of blooms. The great irony is that
these amazingly tough plants manage to survive the worst we dish out
and then we use it as an excuse to continue bad practices.

Now, if you want to cut down to the ground periodically and create a
big bushy cluster of sprouts, more power to you, but IMO the best
thing about crapes is the intricate branch structure and the smooth
trunks with flaking bark. The whips that come off the ground take
years to reach a point where you can enjoy these features.

As for fertilizer, most Austin soil has too much P and K already, and
our creeks are suffering from the runoff of excessive fertilizer
applied by overzealous homeowners. The bigger problem is our high pH
(we're sitting on a big chunk of limestone, basically). Iron.
magnesium, calcium, etc. can bind with each other/other soil
components, making these micronutrients unavailable to the plant. A
sprinkling of epsom salt can add a bit of Mg to the soil and improve
blooming. Still, I would not recommend any fertilizer unless/until
you get a quality soil test that shows some deficiency, and then only
with a fertilizer designed to address only that deficiency. Don't use
the A&M soil tests--they use HCl to test in an assembly-line method,
and the results are skewed because of that (in effect, the acid
negates the problems caused by the high pH and your test will show
elements that are in the soil but not available to the plants).

Good luck,

Keith Babberney
ISA Certified Arborist

Keith,

Just so you know I did not advise anyone to "top" their crape myrtle, other
than to say it is possible to cut them off almost to the ground and they
will come back eventually. The single most common reason why crape myrtles
stop blooming is they are overgrown and neglected. Most flowering shrubs
(crape myrtles included) only bloom on new growth. The same can be said for
Rhododendron, roses, and most other flowering shrubs. You can have the
perfect soil for a plant, but if there is no new growth, there won't be
blooms. When I prune mine, I clear out excessive and dead growth on the
inside of the plant and retain the natural form of the plant when pruning on
the outside.

I grow a Crape for bonsai plus maybe a dozen in other larger pots.

Crapes not only bloom on new wood, they send out new branches, stop
growing, then send out branches on those branches and then bloom on
those new (2nd) branches!

Take what Roy said to heart....

John

"RoyDMercer" wrote in message
...

Keith,

Just so you know I did not advise anyone to "top" their crape
myrtle, other
than to say it is possible to cut them off almost to the ground and
they
will come back eventually. The single most common reason why crape
myrtles
stop blooming is they are overgrown and neglected. Most flowering
shrubs
(crape myrtles included) only bloom on new growth. The same can be
said for
Rhododendron, roses, and most other flowering shrubs. You can have
the
perfect soil for a plant, but if there is no new growth, there won't
be
blooms. When I prune mine, I clear out excessive and dead growth on
the
inside of the plant and retain the natural form of the plant when
pruning on
the outside.

RoyDMercer wrote:
stop blooming is they are overgrown and neglected. Most flowering shrubs
(crape myrtles included) only bloom on new growth. The same can be said for

That's a broad generalization, and like most broad generalizations, it's
incorrect.

blooms. When I prune mine, I clear out excessive and dead growth on the
inside of the plant and retain the natural form of the plant when pruning on
the outside.

Dumb question. Wouldn't the "natural form" of a plant be that which is
achieved naturally, without pruning?

--
Victor Martinez
Send your spam he
Email me he

"escapee" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 5 May 2004 08:01:27 -0500, "RoyDMercer"

opined:

I should have said 1 teaspoon per quart of water. 4 tablespoons per
gallon
seems excessive to me. If you are using that much, you could start to
affect the PH of the soil, which is not a good thing unless your soil is
very acidic to begin with.

Crape Myrtles will bloom very well as you say if you are lightly pruning
them each year. However if you let them go they will eventually stop
blooming. The state of Oklahoma planted hundres of Crape Myrtles all
along
the southern section of I-35. They are never pruned and they have
stopped
blooming almost completely.


They are not blooming because I highly doubt the state fertilizes it's
highways.
That is why they are not blooming. Not because they are not pruned.

When they were first planted, they bloomed profusely for several years which
negates your theory. Only after a few years when they reached their maximum
height and width did they stop blooming. When I say stop, I don't mean they
stopped altogether because they still produce very small and sparse blooms,
but this is not what I would call blooming for a crape myrtle.

I see the same situation happening in commercial settings where they don't
prune them but do fertilize.

"escapee" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 6 May 2004 15:15:59 -0500, "RoyDMercer"

opined:

I beg to differ. There are only a handful of dwarf varieties and not one
of
them requires the treatment of heavy pruning. A tree or shrub which
flowers on
new growth does so naturally. When you cut a crape to an inch of its
life, sure
it's going to bloom excessively. It is trying to make seeds to continue
its own
survival in nature. It's sort of like the false economy. We are being
told how
it's growing at the fastest rate, when really it's only starting to
recover,
masked at recovery. Anyone with a portfolio knows what I'm talking about.

Political statement aside (Anybody But Bush), pruning crape myrtles is
absolutely not necessary for the plant to bloom.

I didn't mention dwarf varieties in particular. There's hundreds of
cultivars of crape myrtles including many more than a handful of dwarfs.
There's also tall, medium, and minis. Each year new cultivars are produced.
Commercial growers run under the same scenario for just about all plants.
The patent on new cultivars runs out after a few years and growers lose
exclusive rights to them. So they produce new cultivars each year. You may
be referring to species. There are only 3 species under the genus, but
there are hundreds of varieties, hybrids, or cultivars whatever you want to
call them.

I think it's very poor advice to tell someone pruning all crape myrtles is
absolutely not necessary to get them to bloom well. Certainly they will
bloom some if left alone, but most people are going to want them to bloom
profusely. I wouldn't advocate heavy pruning unless one had been neglected
for several years. Light pruning is all that's necessary if done on a
yearly basis. You can also deadhead old blooms to get them to bloom more
throughout the blooming season.

The very article you quoted in this very thread says pruning of crape
myrtles is "required". I'll repost the link in case you wish to read it
again: http://www.plantdelights.com/Tony/crape.html

"Victor Martinez" wrote in message
...
RoyDMercer wrote:

That's a broad generalization, and like most broad generalizations, it's
incorrect.

The statement above is quite funny because it's a broad generalization.
Does that mean it's incorrect?

Dumb question. Wouldn't the "natural form" of a plant be that which is
achieved naturally, without pruning?

The key word you missed is "form".

RoyDMercer wrote:
The statement above is quite funny because it's a broad generalization.
Does that mean it's incorrect?

You seemed to have a problem reading. You said "all flowering
bushes...", I said "most..."
You see the difference?

The key word you missed is "form".

Hmmm... I don't get what you're trying to say. Would you please elaborate?

--
Victor Martinez
Send your spam he
Email me he

"Victor Martinez" wrote in message
...
RoyDMercer wrote:
The statement above is quite funny because it's a broad generalization.
Does that mean it's incorrect?

You seemed to have a problem reading. You said "all flowering
bushes...", I said "most..."
You see the difference?

No sir, I don't see the difference.

Actually I said, "Most flowering shrubs" (cut and pasted from my original
message). It would seem that you, sir, have the reading problem.


The key word you missed is "form".

Hmmm... I don't get what you're trying to say. Would you please elaborate?

Certainly.

Form (fôrm)
n.
1.
a. The shape and structure of an object.
....
2.
a. The essence of something.
....

So if you take Mr. Webster's definition of 'form' and then consider the
phrase "natural form", you should see "natural form", as I used it, would
mean the essence and shape of nature and not necessarily the exactness of
nature as you inferred.