Our shallots are ready for lifting - I will be pickling them. Should I leave
them to dry out first or not?

Jeanne Stockdale

Jeanne Stockdale wrote:
Our shallots are ready for lifting - I will be pickling them. Should I leave
them to dry out first or not?

Jeanne Stockdale
I usually dry the mon a slatted table outside if the weather is good or
on a bench ( on newspaper) in my garage if the weather is wet.One to
two weeks is about right.
However drying is not absolutely essential. If the weather is good put
on the marigolds and start peeling. I strongly advocate salting the
shallots for twenty four hours before washing and adding the vinegar
although there was some discussion about this last year.
Tony Bull
www.caterpillarfountain.co.uk

Tony wrote

Jeanne Stockdale wrote:
Our shallots are ready for lifting - I will be pickling them. Should I
leave
them to dry out first or not?

Jeanne Stockdale
I usually dry the mon a slatted table outside if the weather is good or
on a bench ( on newspaper) in my garage if the weather is wet.One to
two weeks is about right.
However drying is not absolutely essential. If the weather is good put
on the marigolds and start peeling. I strongly advocate salting the
shallots for twenty four hours before washing and adding the vinegar
although there was some discussion about this last year.

I've asked this question before but never got a proper answer...Why do you
salt them and then wash them? ( i.e. add the dreaded salt and then wash most
of it off with chlorinated tapwater)
We do neither and even two year old pickled shallots are still crisp, so
that's not the reason.
So why do you do this, what's the theory behind it?

I suspect the commercial firms do it to quicken the pickling process but
that's not a valid reason for us to do it, we can simply wait and get
uncontaminated food.

--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London

"Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...

Tony wrote

Jeanne Stockdale wrote:
Our shallots are ready for lifting - I will be pickling them. Should I
leave
them to dry out first or not?

Jeanne Stockdale
I usually dry the mon a slatted table outside if the weather is good or
on a bench ( on newspaper) in my garage if the weather is wet.One to
two weeks is about right.
However drying is not absolutely essential. If the weather is good put
on the marigolds and start peeling. I strongly advocate salting the
shallots for twenty four hours before washing and adding the vinegar
although there was some discussion about this last year.

I've asked this question before but never got a proper answer...Why do you
salt them and then wash them? ( i.e. add the dreaded salt and then wash
most of it off with chlorinated tapwater)
We do neither and even two year old pickled shallots are still crisp, so
that's not the reason.
So why do you do this, what's the theory behind it?

I suspect the commercial firms do it to quicken the pickling process but
that's not a valid reason for us to do it, we can simply wait and get
uncontaminated food.

--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London
According to "Delia Smith's Complete Cookery Course" it isn't necessary to
salt/brine but the pickled vegetables need to be eaten within 3/4 months -
you have obviously proved her wrong Bob

Jeanne

Bob Hobden wrote:
Tony wrote

Jeanne Stockdale wrote:
Our shallots are ready for lifting - I will be pickling them. Should I
leave
them to dry out first or not?

Jeanne Stockdale
I usually dry the mon a slatted table outside if the weather is good or
on a bench ( on newspaper) in my garage if the weather is wet.One to
two weeks is about right.
However drying is not absolutely essential. If the weather is good put
on the marigolds and start peeling. I strongly advocate salting the
shallots for twenty four hours before washing and adding the vinegar
although there was some discussion about this last year.

I've asked this question before but never got a proper answer...Why do you
salt them and then wash them? ( i.e. add the dreaded salt and then wash most
of it off with chlorinated tapwater)
We do neither and even two year old pickled shallots are still crisp, so
that's not the reason.
So why do you do this, what's the theory behind it?

I suspect the commercial firms do it to quicken the pickling process but
that's not a valid reason for us to do it, we can simply wait and get
uncontaminated food.

--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London
I salt them to keep them crisp when pickled.
If it works for you without salting, fine. I am not prepared to take
the chance of losing about twenty to thirty pounds of pickled shallots.
In any case if you wash off the salt how can it hurt you?
As it happens I eat a lot of salt and my blood pressure is normal,
although if it were high from another cause, I would probably have to
moderate my intake.
As for chlorine it is a gas which damages the lungs and dissipates from
tap water fairly rapidly.I would rather have chlorine than cholera or
typhoid. Everything in moderation is my motto as many things we eat and
dring are bad for us when taken in excess.
I would rather h

tony wrote

Bob Hobden wrote:
Tony wrote

Jeanne Stockdale wrote:
Our shallots are ready for lifting - I will be pickling them. Should I
leave
them to dry out first or not?

Jeanne Stockdale
I usually dry the mon a slatted table outside if the weather is good or
on a bench ( on newspaper) in my garage if the weather is wet.One to
two weeks is about right.
However drying is not absolutely essential. If the weather is good put
on the marigolds and start peeling. I strongly advocate salting the
shallots for twenty four hours before washing and adding the vinegar
although there was some discussion about this last year.

I've asked this question before but never got a proper answer...Why do
you
salt them and then wash them? ( i.e. add the dreaded salt and then wash
most
of it off with chlorinated tapwater)
We do neither and even two year old pickled shallots are still crisp, so
that's not the reason.
So why do you do this, what's the theory behind it?

I suspect the commercial firms do it to quicken the pickling process but
that's not a valid reason for us to do it, we can simply wait and get
uncontaminated food.

I salt them to keep them crisp when pickled.

Read the above...if you use fresh good onions, good quality vinegar
(Sarsons), and pickling spice ( we add a home grow chilli to each jar too)
then you don't need to salt/wash them.

It's a myth and I don't know how it came about for home pickling.

If it works for you without salting, fine. I am not prepared to take
the chance of losing about twenty to thirty pounds of pickled shallots.
In any case if you wash off the salt how can it hurt you?

Salt is bad for you in the quantities we now consume in the West. Not all of
it will be washed off so you will be raising your salt intake.
All salt does is act as a dessicant, it removes some water from the body of
the onions. This will quicken the pickling process but are you bothered
about that? I'm not, I can wait 3 months or more.
I should think it also softens the onions, quite the reverse of what you
desire.

Try one jar my way and compare after 3 months or more, you too will wonder
why you did the salt treatment.

regards
Bob.

Bob Hobden wrote:
tony wrote

Bob Hobden wrote:
Tony wrote

Jeanne Stockdale wrote:
Our shallots are ready for lifting - I will be pickling them. Should I
leave
them to dry out first or not?

Jeanne Stockdale
I usually dry the mon a slatted table outside if the weather is good or
on a bench ( on newspaper) in my garage if the weather is wet.One to
two weeks is about right.
However drying is not absolutely essential. If the weather is good put
on the marigolds and start peeling. I strongly advocate salting the
shallots for twenty four hours before washing and adding the vinegar
although there was some discussion about this last year.

I've asked this question before but never got a proper answer...Why do
you
salt them and then wash them? ( i.e. add the dreaded salt and then wash
most
of it off with chlorinated tapwater)
We do neither and even two year old pickled shallots are still crisp, so
that's not the reason.
So why do you do this, what's the theory behind it?

I suspect the commercial firms do it to quicken the pickling process but
that's not a valid reason for us to do it, we can simply wait and get
uncontaminated food.

I salt them to keep them crisp when pickled.

Read the above...if you use fresh good onions, good quality vinegar
(Sarsons), and pickling spice ( we add a home grow chilli to each jar too)
then you don't need to salt/wash them.

It's a myth and I don't know how it came about for home pickling.

If it works for you without salting, fine. I am not prepared to take
the chance of losing about twenty to thirty pounds of pickled shallots.
In any case if you wash off the salt how can it hurt you?

Salt is bad for you in the quantities we now consume in the West. Not all of
it will be washed off so you will be raising your salt intake.
All salt does is act as a dessicant, it removes some water from the body of
the onions. This will quicken the pickling process but are you bothered
about that? I'm not, I can wait 3 months or more.
I should think it also softens the onions, quite the reverse of what you
desire.

Try one jar my way and compare after 3 months or more, you too will wonder
why you did the salt treatment.

regards
Bob.
You've answered your own question on why salt.
Yes the salt does remove water from the onions by osmosis and therefore
softens them. This concentrates the liguid in the onion cells so that
the vinegar can add water again by osmosis, thereby resulting in
crunchy onions. The amount of salt left on the onions is surely
dependant upon how thoroughly they are washed.
The west's salt intake is , quite frankly, of no concern to me at all.

Tony wrote
You've answered your own question on why salt.
Yes the salt does remove water from the onions by osmosis and therefore
softens them. This concentrates the liguid in the onion cells so that
the vinegar can add water again by osmosis, thereby resulting in
crunchy onions.

Why bother then, just do it my way and leave the original liquid in place.
Even crunchier onions.
Peel, pop in the jar, add spice and vinegar, seal and leave for 3 months
min.

Salt will hasten the process which is why it's used by professionals to
reduce stock within the process and save money tied up but I can't see any
advantage for amateur growers/picklers.

The amount of salt left on the onions is surely
dependant upon how thoroughly they are washed.

Some will dissolve in the onion juice and penetrate the onions, it will not
be washed off.

I might add we have just opened another jar of our pickled shallots, Jermor
this time and a year old now, and they are superb. When we have left them
two years they have still been crisp.
--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London

Bob Hobden wrote:
Tony wrote
You've answered your own question on why salt.
Yes the salt does remove water from the onions by osmosis and therefore
softens them. This concentrates the liguid in the onion cells so that
the vinegar can add water again by osmosis, thereby resulting in
crunchy onions.

Why bother then, just do it my way and leave the original liquid in place.
Even crunchier onions.
Peel, pop in the jar, add spice and vinegar, seal and leave for 3 months
min.

Salt will hasten the process which is why it's used by professionals to
reduce stock within the process and save money tied up but I can't see any
advantage for amateur growers/picklers.

The amount of salt left on the onions is surely
dependant upon how thoroughly they are washed.

Some will dissolve in the onion juice and penetrate the onions, it will not
be washed off.

I might add we have just opened another jar of our pickled shallots, Jermor
this time and a year old now, and they are superb. When we have left them
two years they have still been crisp.
--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London
OK Bob
Here are the principles of osmosis, as I understand them from my O
level biology many many years ago.
When two aqueous solutions are separated from each other by a
semi-permeable membrane, the water in the dilute solution will always
diffuse more quickly through the membrane from the dilute solution to
the concentrated solution resulting in an equalisation of
concentrations.
The effectiveness of salting therefore depends upon one basic premise
i.e. that the concentration if the solution in the cells of the onion
or shallot is more dilute than that on the acetic acid solution in the
vinegar. This is highly likely because the solutions in cells are
usually very dilute because most chemical reactions in living organisms
occur more readily in dilute solutions.
Note that the diffusion is of water only, not salt, as the cell walls
are semi-permeable i.e. they only allow small molecules through.
Therefor when you add the salt, the solutions in the cell are
concentrated by losing water to the salt. Then when you add the vinegar
the water is returned to the cells because the vinegar is now more
dilute than the solutions in the cells.
It is likely that the salt also acts as a bactericide and fungicide
again by removing water from these other living organisms. Finally when
the vinegar loses water to the onion cells it becomes more concentrated
so that its preserving properties are enhanced. Salt can only enter the
cells where the cell walls are damaged for instance during peeling and
since salt is very soluble in water, it is readily washed off. If your
onions are nice and firm without salting then that must mean that your
vinegar is fairly dilute in which case I would doubt its preserving
properties. Every cookery book and preserving book that I have read
advocates salting most vegetables which when you understand the science
behind it is pretty clear.
Tony Bull
www.caterpillarfountain.co.uk

In article .com,
says...

Bob Hobden wrote:
Tony wrote
You've answered your own question on why salt.
Yes the salt does remove water from the onions by osmosis and therefore
softens them. This concentrates the liguid in the onion cells so that
the vinegar can add water again by osmosis, thereby resulting in
crunchy onions.

Why bother then, just do it my way and leave the original liquid in place.
Even crunchier onions.
Peel, pop in the jar, add spice and vinegar, seal and leave for 3 months
min.

OK Bob
Here are the principles of osmosis, as I understand them from my O
level biology many many years ago.


hacketry

Pickling is a preserving process. You want the preserved product to take
up the the preserving medium. Vinegar is not the kind of place that
bacteria/yeasts etc will be happy to live. If you water down the
preserving media below a critical level by adding say shallots with a
high water content, the environment becomes less hostile to invasive
elements. The salt solution will replace the simple water and is a
hostile environment. The vinegar will replace the saline and the
environment should remain fairly hostile. Packing a jar full of nice wet
onions should produce a cloudy jar within a few weeks depending on how
you store it. Water down the pickling solution enough and it *will* be
susceptible to something setting up home.

If you want an example of similar conditions causing problems, bottle up
some garlic in olive oil. It'll keep for ages. Be messy while getting
out a few cloves and leave the tops of some cloves exposed to the air.
Test for botulin.


Warwick

Warwick wrote:
In article .com,
says...

Bob Hobden wrote:
Tony wrote
You've answered your own question on why salt.
Yes the salt does remove water from the onions by osmosis and therefore
softens them. This concentrates the liguid in the onion cells so that
the vinegar can add water again by osmosis, thereby resulting in
crunchy onions.

Why bother then, just do it my way and leave the original liquid in place.
Even crunchier onions.
Peel, pop in the jar, add spice and vinegar, seal and leave for 3 months
min.

OK Bob
Here are the principles of osmosis, as I understand them from my O
level biology many many years ago.


hacketry

Pickling is a preserving process. You want the preserved product to take
up the the preserving medium. Vinegar is not the kind of place that
bacteria/yeasts etc will be happy to live. If you water down the
preserving media below a critical level by adding say shallots with a
high water content, the environment becomes less hostile to invasive
elements. The salt solution will replace the simple water and is a
hostile environment. The vinegar will replace the saline and the
environment should remain fairly hostile. Packing a jar full of nice wet
onions should produce a cloudy jar within a few weeks depending on how
you store it. Water down the pickling solution enough and it *will* be
susceptible to something setting up home.

If you want an example of similar conditions causing problems, bottle up
some garlic in olive oil. It'll keep for ages. Be messy while getting
out a few cloves and leave the tops of some cloves exposed to the air.
Test for botulin.


Warwick
Having watched the programme on salt last night, it appears that the
ancient Egyptians used salt in the mummification of their dead. Maybe
Bob should volunteer to be pickled in vinegar and I could volunteer to
be salted! Future archeologists could report back to this news group in
about 4000 years
Tony Bull
www.caterpillarfountain.co.uk