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#1
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Greenhouse effect compost
We have a large compost pile, about 1m x 3m and 50cm deep, with brick
walls. It's covered by three sloping wood panels. I was wondering whether changing them for corrugated plastic ones would help warm up the heap and thereby speed up the composting, or if it would be detrimental, so I'd be grateful for any advice. Daniele -- Apple Juice www.apple-juice.co.uk Chapter Arts Centre Market Road Cardiff CF5 1QE |
#2
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In article ,
michael adams wrote: Painting the brick walls and wood panels black would allow them to better absorb any heat - without reflecting it away unlike a paler colour - while still insulating the pile against heat loss at night and retaining any necessary moisture in the heap. That assumes that the net radiation into the heap is positive - a VERY debatable matter. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
#3
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The message
from "michael adams" contains these words: "Nick Maclaren" wrote in message ... In article , michael adams wrote: Painting the brick walls and wood panels black would allow them to better absorb any heat - without reflecting it away unlike a paler colour - while still insulating the pile against heat loss at night and retaining any necessary moisture in the heap. That assumes that the net radiation into the heap is positive - a VERY debatable matter. Hence the use there, of the words "would" and "any". And in direct sunlight, possibly correct. However, when the environment cools, the black surface will radiate heat better. Since the heap is likely to be out of direct strong sunlight longer than in it each day, the net effect of painting it black would be negative. If you feel any overwhelming desire to furnish any actual evidence or data in support of your claim, please don't hesitate to do so. Claim? If you mean by that "a VERY debatable matter.", I would wholeearted ly agree with Nick - it *IS* debatable, and we are both debating it. Enough evidence for you? After all, we're all friends here. Allegedly. Well, most of us are, mot of the time. -- Rusty Emus to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/ |
#4
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The message
from "michael adams" contains these words: That assumes that the net radiation into the heap is positive - a VERY debatable matter. That isn't the issue. If the brick walls are painted black they'll absorb solar radiation rather than reflecting it straight back and warming the surrounding atmospere. The warmer the brick walls are, the less heat will pass from the heap into the walls, given that less heat passes from a hot body to a warm body, than to a cool body. And so less heat will be lost from the heap overall, as result of paining the walls black - and more solar radiation will be absorbed from day one, when the heap isn't actualy generating any heat of its own. Thank you for your helpful contribution, nevertheless. I consider it a very helpful contribution and well-thught-out, and even if you could arrange for the black face/faces to be presented to the sun at right-angles to its elevation while it is playing on it/them, and the heap is at a normal temperature (for compost heaps) the balace has to be a net loss of heat. I'll no doubt rejoin this later - England wants eleven runs to win - Oz wants three wickets. -- Rusty Emus to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/ |
#5
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In message , michael adams
writes "Janet Baraclough" wrote in message ... The message from "michael adams" contains these words: "Nick Maclaren" wrote in message ... In article , michael adams wrote: Painting the brick walls and wood panels black would allow them to ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ better absorb any heat - without reflecting it away unlike a paler colour - while still insulating the pile against heat loss at night and retaining any necessary moisture in the heap. That assumes that the net radiation into the heap is positive - a VERY debatable matter. That isn't the issue. If the brick walls are painted black they'll absorb solar radiation rather than reflecting it straight back and warming the surrounding atmospere. You haven't ascertained from the OP whether the structure gets any direct sun at all. Even if it does, since the structure is only 50 cm high, it seems unlikely that such low walls will get enough sun on them for long enough to affect the heat of the contents. Even less if only one one of the short walls (1 m) faces the sun. michael adams wrote: Painting the brick walls and wood panels *black ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ *On top of the structure as specified by the OP. hint:see above It would appear you're attempting to outdo Mr McLaren in nitpicking. Thats 0 - 3 in my favour, thus far I believe. Would you be aware that surfaces that are good at absorbing radiation are also good at radiating energy? A black compost heat container will indeed absorb more heat when in direct sunlight. At night, and perhaps when shaded, it will lose more heat. Given that a compost heap generates heat internally, and therefore is above the equilibrium temperature for a passive object on the surface of the earth, at first sight it seems that painting the heap container black will reduce the time averaged temperature. How significant this is depends on a number of factors. For a well insulated heap, such as one with brick walls, and wooden covers, it may be negligible. With respect to the OP's question, replacing the wooden panels with corrugated plastic presumably allows heat loss from convection via the ends of the corrugations. I imagine that plastic is thinner than the wood, which would contribute to it being a poorer insulator. If clear, it will allow visible light to pass through and heat the surface of the compost directly, while absorbing radiated infra-red light. My intuition is that better insulation is more important than exploiting the greenhouse effect. -- Stewart Robert Hinsley |
#6
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In article ,
michael adams wrote: "Stewart Robert Hinsley" wrote in message ... A black compost heat container will indeed absorb more heat when in direct sunlight. At night, and perhaps when shaded, it will lose more heat. Surely Mr Hinsley, as with cats, all compost heaps are black at night ? I really do encourage you to write up your musings on science in book form. You could become as well-respected as von Daniken or even Velikovsky. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
#7
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The message
from "michael adams" contains these words: "Nick Maclaren" wrote in message ... I really do encourage you to write up your musings on science in book form. You could become as well-respected as von Daniken or even Velikovsky. .... I'd certainly settle for their income, that's for sure. But I'd imagine all the most highly respected authorities on most subjects can be found posting in NewsGroups nevertheless. Offering to share their invaluable knowledge with total strangers, and all for free. Naturally. It's not *QUITE* as positive as that though, it's just that they hate to see people being misinformed. -- Rusty Emus to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/ |
#8
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The message
from "michael adams" contains these words: "Janet Baraclough" wrote in message ... The message from "michael adams" contains these words: But I'd imagine all the most highly respected authorities on most subjects can be found posting in NewsGroups nevertheless. Offering to share their invaluable knowledge with total strangers, and all for free. It would save everyone's time if such experts marked all their posts "This author's posts are certifiable. No discussion required". Janet Well done Janet. Leading by example, as always. 5 - 0 Ah well, it won't be *THAT* long before school is back. -- Rusty Emus to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/ |
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