Rupert (W.Yorkshire) wrote:
"Sacha" wrote in message
oups.com...

H Ryder wrote:
I know that lots of plants are described as "poisonous" when in fact they
just give you a bit of a bad tummy, whilst others can be fatal. I have
small
children so am trying to rid the garden of anythign fatal to them but do
not
mind the "bad tummy" plants. Does anyone know where I can find out just
how
poisonous plants are? Am especially interested in Daphnes as I'd love to
have one but have avoided getting one as they seem "very poisonous" but I
am
not sure of this. Also please let me know of any common plant which is
fatal
to children - I know of Lords and Ladies (Acorus calamus ) and nightshade
but am not sure of others. (I also know that I can tell them not to eat
anything but that does not work in a garden full of raspberries etc -
they
know that they can eat some stuff )

The RHS site has a pdf file of poisonous plants, though it's probably
easier to list what is NOT poisonous.
http://www.rhs.org.uk/research/docum..._e_harmful.pdf

If it's any consolation to you, I'm pretty certain there have been no
reported deaths from plant poisoning in absolutely years and years. I
can't say it's something I ever worried about with my children and they
seem to have survived. However, I would say that while you might well
want to avoid certain plants that are poisonous if ingested, I'd be at
least as cautious, if not more so, about plants whose sap or leaves can
irritate the skin. We no longer sell Rue here, because a customer who
had bought it from us and had it for a year, had read but ignored or
forgotten that the label warned it's a considerable skin irritant to
some people. She complained bitterly and made a really huge fuss and
it's just not worth the risk for us. Another plant to beware of
(though you're unlikely to grow it deliberately!) is Giant Hogweed.
Euphorbia sap is very irritating to some skins and even daffodils can
have the same effect.
This is another useful site
http://www.gardensearch.co.uk/harmfulplants.htm
and its introduction says
"The following list of potentially harmful plants has been based on
information contained in the Horticultural Retailers Code of Practice.
The Code is compiled by the Horticultural Trades Association (HTA) who
have worked with the Poisons Unit at Guy's Hospital and The Royal
Botanic Gardens at Kew. "
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon

Those are useful links --thanks.
Are you getting at me by saying no one would deliberately grow Giant
Hogweed:-) Heracleum mantegazzianum , a grand name for a plant.
I grow the odd one each year.
Yes it can irritate the skin but it's not life threatening. I believe it's
main claim to fame is that it seeds prolifically and is invasive.
I have seen this plant grown as a solitary specimen at several of the
stately homes-so perhaps one just outside your tea room would look nice:-)

You claim to be a novice gardener but says that you grow Giant Hogweed
"the odd one each year".
But you want us to believe you're concerned about the safety of
children. Hmmmmm. I think not.
My apologies, Nick. You were right. One guess as to who this poster
is.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon

You claim to be a novice gardener but says that you grow Giant Hogweed
"the odd one each year".
But you want us to believe you're concerned about the safety of
children. Hmmmmm.

just to clarify it is me (Hayley) concerned about the children down in
Somerset and Rupert (in Yorkshire) growing the hogweed

--
Hayley
(gardening on well drained, alkaline clay in Somerset)

"H Ryder" wrote in message
...
You claim to be a novice gardener but says that you grow Giant Hogweed
"the odd one each year".
But you want us to believe you're concerned about the safety of
children. Hmmmmm.

just to clarify it is me (Hayley) concerned about the children down in
Somerset and Rupert (in Yorkshire) growing the hogweed

--
Hayley
(gardening on well drained, alkaline clay in Somerset)


Ah I see--you are confused by the Sacha post also?
I do like children really it's just that I like Hogweed even more.

"Sacha" wrote in message
oups.com...

Rupert (W.Yorkshire) wrote:
"Sacha" wrote in message
oups.com...

H Ryder wrote:
I know that lots of plants are described as "poisonous" when in fact
they
just give you a bit of a bad tummy, whilst others can be fatal. I have
small
children so am trying to rid the garden of anythign fatal to them but
do
not
mind the "bad tummy" plants. Does anyone know where I can find out
just
how
poisonous plants are? Am especially interested in Daphnes as I'd love
to
have one but have avoided getting one as they seem "very poisonous"
but I
am
not sure of this. Also please let me know of any common plant which is
fatal
to children - I know of Lords and Ladies (Acorus calamus ) and
nightshade
but am not sure of others. (I also know that I can tell them not to
eat
anything but that does not work in a garden full of raspberries etc -
they
know that they can eat some stuff )

The RHS site has a pdf file of poisonous plants, though it's probably
easier to list what is NOT poisonous.
http://www.rhs.org.uk/research/docum..._e_harmful.pdf

If it's any consolation to you, I'm pretty certain there have been no
reported deaths from plant poisoning in absolutely years and years. I
can't say it's something I ever worried about with my children and they
seem to have survived. However, I would say that while you might well
want to avoid certain plants that are poisonous if ingested, I'd be at
least as cautious, if not more so, about plants whose sap or leaves can
irritate the skin. We no longer sell Rue here, because a customer who
had bought it from us and had it for a year, had read but ignored or
forgotten that the label warned it's a considerable skin irritant to
some people. She complained bitterly and made a really huge fuss and
it's just not worth the risk for us. Another plant to beware of
(though you're unlikely to grow it deliberately!) is Giant Hogweed.
Euphorbia sap is very irritating to some skins and even daffodils can
have the same effect.
This is another useful site
http://www.gardensearch.co.uk/harmfulplants.htm
and its introduction says
"The following list of potentially harmful plants has been based on
information contained in the Horticultural Retailers Code of Practice.
The Code is compiled by the Horticultural Trades Association (HTA) who
have worked with the Poisons Unit at Guy's Hospital and The Royal
Botanic Gardens at Kew. "
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon

Those are useful links --thanks.
Are you getting at me by saying no one would deliberately grow Giant
Hogweed:-) Heracleum mantegazzianum , a grand name for a plant.
I grow the odd one each year.
Yes it can irritate the skin but it's not life threatening. I believe
it's
main claim to fame is that it seeds prolifically and is invasive.
I have seen this plant grown as a solitary specimen at several of the
stately homes-so perhaps one just outside your tea room would look
nice:-)

You claim to be a novice gardener but says that you grow Giant Hogweed
"the odd one each year".
But you want us to believe you're concerned about the safety of
children. Hmmmmm. I think not.
My apologies, Nick. You were right. One guess as to who this poster
is.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon

Tis me Rupert. I do not claim to be a novice gardener. Yep I do grow the odd
one each year and yes I am concerned about the safety of anyone but as I
said the sap is not life threatening.
With whom were you and Nick (Maclaren?) confusing me with.

Rupert (W.Yorkshire) wrote:
"Sacha" wrote in message
oups.com...

Rupert (W.Yorkshire) wrote:
"Sacha" wrote in message
oups.com...

H Ryder wrote:
I know that lots of plants are described as "poisonous" when in fact
they
just give you a bit of a bad tummy, whilst others can be fatal. I have
small
children so am trying to rid the garden of anythign fatal to them but
do
not
mind the "bad tummy" plants. Does anyone know where I can find out
just
how
poisonous plants are? Am especially interested in Daphnes as I'd love
to
have one but have avoided getting one as they seem "very poisonous"
but I
am
not sure of this. Also please let me know of any common plant which is
fatal
to children - I know of Lords and Ladies (Acorus calamus ) and
nightshade
but am not sure of others. (I also know that I can tell them not to
eat
anything but that does not work in a garden full of raspberries etc -
they
know that they can eat some stuff )

The RHS site has a pdf file of poisonous plants, though it's probably
easier to list what is NOT poisonous.
http://www.rhs.org.uk/research/docum..._e_harmful.pdf

If it's any consolation to you, I'm pretty certain there have been no
reported deaths from plant poisoning in absolutely years and years. I
can't say it's something I ever worried about with my children and they
seem to have survived. However, I would say that while you might well
want to avoid certain plants that are poisonous if ingested, I'd be at
least as cautious, if not more so, about plants whose sap or leaves can
irritate the skin. We no longer sell Rue here, because a customer who
had bought it from us and had it for a year, had read but ignored or
forgotten that the label warned it's a considerable skin irritant to
some people. She complained bitterly and made a really huge fuss and
it's just not worth the risk for us. Another plant to beware of
(though you're unlikely to grow it deliberately!) is Giant Hogweed.
Euphorbia sap is very irritating to some skins and even daffodils can
have the same effect.
This is another useful site
http://www.gardensearch.co.uk/harmfulplants.htm
and its introduction says
"The following list of potentially harmful plants has been based on
information contained in the Horticultural Retailers Code of Practice.
The Code is compiled by the Horticultural Trades Association (HTA) who
have worked with the Poisons Unit at Guy's Hospital and The Royal
Botanic Gardens at Kew. "
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon

Those are useful links --thanks.
Are you getting at me by saying no one would deliberately grow Giant
Hogweed:-) Heracleum mantegazzianum , a grand name for a plant.
I grow the odd one each year.
Yes it can irritate the skin but it's not life threatening. I believe
it's
main claim to fame is that it seeds prolifically and is invasive.
I have seen this plant grown as a solitary specimen at several of the
stately homes-so perhaps one just outside your tea room would look
nice:-)

You claim to be a novice gardener but says that you grow Giant Hogweed
"the odd one each year".
But you want us to believe you're concerned about the safety of
children. Hmmmmm. I think not.
My apologies, Nick. You were right. One guess as to who this poster
is.

Tis me Rupert. I do not claim to be a novice gardener. Yep I do grow the odd
one each year and yes I am concerned about the safety of anyone but as I
said the sap is not life threatening.
With whom were you and Nick (Maclaren?) confusing me with.

I must apologise to Hayley. I read your post as coming from her and
as a couple of other trolls here have made constant slighting
references to our tea room etc., I thought it was one of them up to
their old tricks.
However, you say that the sap isn't life-threatening but that is one
of the most toxic plants going. A friend of ours ended up in hospital
after contact with it. He had horrible blisters and three years later,
the areas of his skin affected, still react badly to exposure to
sunlight. It's definitely not a plant to take lightly or to recommend
to others, IMO. Anyway, Hayley, I'm sorry - that was a mistake on my
part.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon

"Sacha" wrote in message
oups.com...

Rupert (W.Yorkshire) wrote:
"Sacha" wrote in message
oups.com...

Rupert (W.Yorkshire) wrote:
"Sacha" wrote in message
oups.com...

H Ryder wrote:
I know that lots of plants are described as "poisonous" when in
fact
they
just give you a bit of a bad tummy, whilst others can be fatal. I
have
small
children so am trying to rid the garden of anythign fatal to them
but
do
not
mind the "bad tummy" plants. Does anyone know where I can find out
just
how
poisonous plants are? Am especially interested in Daphnes as I'd
love
to
have one but have avoided getting one as they seem "very poisonous"
but I
am
not sure of this. Also please let me know of any common plant which
is
fatal
to children - I know of Lords and Ladies (Acorus calamus ) and
nightshade
but am not sure of others. (I also know that I can tell them not to
eat
anything but that does not work in a garden full of raspberries
etc -
they
know that they can eat some stuff )

The RHS site has a pdf file of poisonous plants, though it's
probably
easier to list what is NOT poisonous.
http://www.rhs.org.uk/research/docum..._e_harmful.pdf

If it's any consolation to you, I'm pretty certain there have been
no
reported deaths from plant poisoning in absolutely years and years.
I
can't say it's something I ever worried about with my children and
they
seem to have survived. However, I would say that while you might
well
want to avoid certain plants that are poisonous if ingested, I'd be
at
least as cautious, if not more so, about plants whose sap or leaves
can
irritate the skin. We no longer sell Rue here, because a customer
who
had bought it from us and had it for a year, had read but ignored or
forgotten that the label warned it's a considerable skin irritant to
some people. She complained bitterly and made a really huge fuss
and
it's just not worth the risk for us. Another plant to beware of
(though you're unlikely to grow it deliberately!) is Giant Hogweed.
Euphorbia sap is very irritating to some skins and even daffodils
can
have the same effect.
This is another useful site
http://www.gardensearch.co.uk/harmfulplants.htm
and its introduction says
"The following list of potentially harmful plants has been based on
information contained in the Horticultural Retailers Code of
Practice.
The Code is compiled by the Horticultural Trades Association (HTA)
who
have worked with the Poisons Unit at Guy's Hospital and The Royal
Botanic Gardens at Kew. "
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon

Those are useful links --thanks.
Are you getting at me by saying no one would deliberately grow Giant
Hogweed:-) Heracleum mantegazzianum , a grand name for a plant.
I grow the odd one each year.
Yes it can irritate the skin but it's not life threatening. I believe
it's
main claim to fame is that it seeds prolifically and is invasive.
I have seen this plant grown as a solitary specimen at several of the
stately homes-so perhaps one just outside your tea room would look
nice:-)

You claim to be a novice gardener but says that you grow Giant Hogweed
"the odd one each year".
But you want us to believe you're concerned about the safety of
children. Hmmmmm. I think not.
My apologies, Nick. You were right. One guess as to who this poster
is.

Tis me Rupert. I do not claim to be a novice gardener. Yep I do grow the
odd
one each year and yes I am concerned about the safety of anyone but as I
said the sap is not life threatening.
With whom were you and Nick (Maclaren?) confusing me with.

I must apologise to Hayley. I read your post as coming from her and
as a couple of other trolls here have made constant slighting
references to our tea room etc., I thought it was one of them up to
their old tricks.
However, you say that the sap isn't life-threatening but that is one
of the most toxic plants going. A friend of ours ended up in hospital
after contact with it. He had horrible blisters and three years later,
the areas of his skin affected, still react badly to exposure to
sunlight. It's definitely not a plant to take lightly or to recommend
to others, IMO. Anyway, Hayley, I'm sorry - that was a mistake on my
part.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon


Ah that explains that thanks. I hope Nick also understands the confusion.
I shall in future refer to your refreshment room as a cafe:-)
I do agree with the potential dangers of Hogweed but as I said earlier the
sap is not life threatening and could not be described as highly toxic in
the sense of causing death which is what I thought Hayley was asking.
Agreed that I would not recommend it as a child/anyone friendly plant.

In article .com,
"Sacha" writes:
|
| However, you say that the sap isn't life-threatening but that is one
| of the most toxic plants going. A friend of ours ended up in hospital
| after contact with it. He had horrible blisters and three years later,
| the areas of his skin affected, still react badly to exposure to
| sunlight. It's definitely not a plant to take lightly or to recommend
| to others, IMO. Anyway, Hayley, I'm sorry - that was a mistake on my
| part.

I would (and did) take the "chemical burn" plants more seriously than
the "poisonous" ones. If a child gets the sap on its hands, and rubs
its eyes, that could be VERY bad news. And that is actually a likely
scenario, unlike a child munching random unpalatable leaves, digging
up and eating roots etc.

Unfortunately, there are a fair number of such plants. Giant hogweed
is one; all sumachs and euphorbias are others - and the last include
petty spurge (a very common weed) and the house plant "poinsettia".
Also periwinkles, but mere touch isn't enough to reach the sap.

Incidentally, I never did confuse Hayley with anyone, but did (and do)
feel that she should and could have checked in a book or elsewhere on
the Web to find out that quinces are NOT poisonous.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article .com,

"Sacha" writes:
|
| However, you say that the sap isn't life-threatening but that is one
| of the most toxic plants going. A friend of ours ended up in hospital
| after contact with it. He had horrible blisters and three years later,
| the areas of his skin affected, still react badly to exposure to
| sunlight. It's definitely not a plant to take lightly or to recommend

I would (and did) take the "chemical burn" plants more seriously than
the "poisonous" ones. If a child gets the sap on its hands, and rubs
its eyes, that could be VERY bad news. And that is actually a likely
scenario,

I agree wholeheartedly that plants capable of inflicting serious pain
and/or permanent skin or eye damage are too dangerous to grow in a
garden where children will play. Fortunately there are not too many of
them. But even things like hyacinth bulbs can afflict sensitive skins.
I managed to get sensitised to sedum spectabile sap by some mishap.

unlike a child munching random unpalatable leaves, digging
up and eating roots etc.

Though the handful of seriously deadly plants where the flower or
fruits are potentially lethal in low doses (colchicum or autumn crocus
and oleander) are also worth avoiding. The list I posted that you
complained about was over cautious, but AFAICT it did contain most of
the nasty ones classified as nasty (but also some pretty harmless ones
falsely accused).

Unfortunately, there are a fair number of such plants. Giant hogweed
is one; all sumachs and euphorbias are others - and the last include
petty spurge (a very common weed) and the house plant "poinsettia".

You will have the Poinsettia society after your scalp. As far as is
known the toxicity of euphorbia pulcherrima or Poinsettia is pretty
much an urban legend that has never been confirmed in any independent
toxological trials. See for example:

http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/e...0/art1nov.html

Most cultivars of E. pulcherrima lack the nasty diterpenes present in
the vicious ones. But I would still not want their sap in my eyes. I
once made that mistake after stringing chillis...

Euphorbia virosa at the other extreme is so dangerous that eye
protection is essential when handling it. The sap jets out under
pressure when the plant is damaged in fine threads. Most euphorbias are
somewhere inbetween. Desert ones are usually much nastier.
http://florawww.eeb.uconn.edu/acc_num/198900028.html

Fortunately in the UK we do not have the really dermatologically
vicious sumacs like poison oak and ivy or the Japanese lacquer tree.

Also periwinkles, but mere touch isn't enough to reach the sap.

A rough and ready rule for handling plant cuttings is never trust
anything with a milky sap. Lettuce is the obvious exception.
And always wash your hands...

Regards,
Martin Brown

In article . com,
writes:
|
| I agree wholeheartedly that plants capable of inflicting serious pain
| and/or permanent skin or eye damage are too dangerous to grow in a
| garden where children will play. Fortunately there are not too many of
| them. ...

Agreed.

| Though the handful of seriously deadly plants where the flower or
| fruits are potentially lethal in low doses (colchicum or autumn crocus
| and oleander) are also worth avoiding. The list I posted that you
| complained about was over cautious, but AFAICT it did contain most of
| the nasty ones classified as nasty (but also some pretty harmless ones
| falsely accused).

Oleander, yes, though it isn't really a UK plant. But would a child
really eat colchicum? The risk must be lower than having an aircraft
fall on its head.

That list omits a large number of seriously poisonous plants which have
caused deaths - e.g. beans (Phaseolus), bluebells (Scilla), and pretty
well all of the tropicals. And then there are fungi - which you can't
prevent appearing when you least expect them. Even given that, such
risks are negligible - and you can be sure that the people who panic
over such things don't take trains instead of driving (which reduces
the risk to their brats MUCH more).

| You will have the Poinsettia society after your scalp. As far as is
| known the toxicity of euphorbia pulcherrima or Poinsettia is pretty
| much an urban legend that has never been confirmed in any independent
| toxological trials. See for example:

Interesting. As with Solanum, not all are toxic :-)



Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

she should and could have checked in a book or elsewhere on
the Web to find out that quinces are NOT poisonous.

I know that quinces are not poisonous, that's why I said that I was
intending to eat teh quinces and I did check on the web, that's where I
found all the stuff re poisonous seeds. As all the info I could find
suggested that (a) it is difficult to extract teh seed as the fruit (in this
country anyway) is very hard and (b) that the seed is poisonous then I
thought I'd try actually asking a group of people about it in the hope that
one of them woudl have some direct experience of an English grown quince and
could give me some actual "common sense facts" as opposed to the
miscellaneous assortment of information on the web which is variable in
quality and usefulness at best .

--
Hayley
(gardening on well drained, alkaline clay in Somerset)

In article ,
"H Ryder" writes:
| she should and could have checked in a book or elsewhere on
| the Web to find out that quinces are NOT poisonous.
|
| I know that quinces are not poisonous, that's why I said that ....

I apologise for misunderstanding you.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Nick Maclaren writes

In article .com,
"Sacha" writes:
|
| However, you say that the sap isn't life-threatening but that is one
| of the most toxic plants going. A friend of ours ended up in hospital
| after contact with it. He had horrible blisters and three years later,
| the areas of his skin affected, still react badly to exposure to
| sunlight. It's definitely not a plant to take lightly or to recommend
| to others, IMO. Anyway, Hayley, I'm sorry - that was a mistake on my
| part.

I would (and did) take the "chemical burn" plants more seriously than
the "poisonous" ones. If a child gets the sap on its hands, and rubs
its eyes, that could be VERY bad news. And that is actually a likely
scenario, unlike a child munching random unpalatable leaves, digging
up and eating roots etc.

My son is allergic to grass sap - I can well remember the sight of him
with his eyes (and I mean his eyeballs, not the skin around) swollen
like a large plastic bag.
--
Kay

Nick Maclaren wrote:
snip

I would (and did) take the "chemical burn" plants more seriously than
the "poisonous" ones. If a child gets the sap on its hands, and rubs
its eyes, that could be VERY bad news. And that is actually a likely
scenario, unlike a child munching random unpalatable leaves, digging
up and eating roots etc.

Unfortunately, there are a fair number of such plants. Giant hogweed
is one; all sumachs and euphorbias are others - and the last include
petty spurge (a very common weed) and the house plant "poinsettia".
Also periwinkles, but mere touch isn't enough to reach the sap.
snip
While the saps of Toxicodendron (poison sumac(h)s) are highly
allergenic for most people, do you have a cite that shows that all
other sumachs have "toxic burn" saps?

I notice that just about every plant other than Monkshood has been
mentioned. Does this mean that it isn't as poisonous as I have been
led to believe? I am such a novice still compared to some of you on
here and would love to know if I have been worrying for nothing.

When we moved here three years ago I knew even less than I do now. We
moved at the end of May and found to our delight a garden full of
beautiful flowers/plants. I went around the garden and cut some
flowers and put two vases in the kitchen, this went on all summer. One
day a neighbour called in and pointed to the beautiful purple flowers
which I had been happily cutting and putting in the kitchen and said to
me, "Ooh, Monkshood, I love it, but you do know it's extremely
poisonous don't you"? I had no idea at all and immediately stopped
putting the flowers in the house. I still have loads of it growing all
over the garden, it is so pretty it's hard to believe it could have
such a bad reputation.

I have to say that I have followed this thread closely and have learned
loads. I didn't know that potato, runner beans, tomatoes or
horseradish were poisonous! I did know of Rhubarb but only because a
friend of mine when we were kids picked some leaves and cooked them for
her dad's tea because she thought they were cabbage leaves. He ended
up in hospital a very sick man!

This is a definitely a great site for novices, there is so much to
learn and no better way to do it than on here.

Thank you all!

Gail

In article .com,
tom&barbara wrote:

... "Ooh, Monkshood, I love it, but you do know it's extremely
poisonous don't you"? I had no idea at all and immediately stopped
putting the flowers in the house. I still have loads of it growing all
over the garden, it is so pretty it's hard to believe it could have
such a bad reputation.

Why stop? Unless you munch into it, it won't harm you. Many of the
most beautiful plants are among the most poisonous. Try Gloriosa,
Brugmansia and Oleander.

I have to say that I have followed this thread closely and have learned
loads. I didn't know that potato, runner beans, tomatoes or
horseradish were poisonous! I did know of Rhubarb but only because a
friend of mine when we were kids picked some leaves and cooked them for
her dad's tea because she thought they were cabbage leaves. He ended
up in hospital a very sick man!

Quite. Never eat any part of a potato except the tubers, never eat
green tubers, and don't eat potato raw if even slightly green. The
same applies to all parts of the tomato except the fruit (which is
edible ripe or green). It is the roots of runner beans that are
poisonous, but never eat runner or dwarf/French beans raw once they
start to ripen.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.