Charlie Pridham wrote:
Anyone growing this in the UK? I could do with some tips on likes and
dislikes, Huge amount of info on growing in the US (not surprising as its
one of their natives and a major food source) but I am wondering how much
shade and moisture it needs.
Not intending to eat the ground nuts it produces but I thought the smell
from the flowers in late summer when I came across it at Rosemoor, was
wonderful.

Can't help with info, but it sounds fascinating, so do keep us up to
date. In addition to the tubers, does it also bury its seed pods? Off
at a tangent as usual, I've often wondered why so few familiar plants
adopt the Burrowing Clover tactic of sowing their own seed in this way.

--
Mike.

Mike Lyle writes

I've often wondered why so few familiar plants
adopt the Burrowing Clover tactic of sowing their own seed in this way.

Obvious limit on how far you can disperse.
If you're going the route of dispersing within 'plant's length' of
yourself, you'll do better with runners, though you don't get the
'future-proofing' of sexual propagation.
--
Kay

"K" wrote in message
...
Mike Lyle writes

I've often wondered why so few familiar plants
adopt the Burrowing Clover tactic of sowing their own seed in this way.

Obvious limit on how far you can disperse.
If you're going the route of dispersing within 'plant's length' of
yourself, you'll do better with runners, though you don't get the
'future-proofing' of sexual propagation.
--
Kay

In answer to mikes question , no it doesn't it has small bean like pods
above ground, underground it has a running tuberous root which forms
enlarged nodules both the roots and ground nuts are edible, it has defied
attempts to grow it commercially due to the 2 year cycle.

--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collection of Clematis viticella (cvs)

Charlie Pridham wrote:
"K" wrote in message
...
Mike Lyle writes

I've often wondered why so few familiar plants
adopt the Burrowing Clover tactic of sowing their own seed in this way.

Obvious limit on how far you can disperse.
If you're going the route of dispersing within 'plant's length' of
yourself, you'll do better with runners, though you don't get the
'future-proofing' of sexual propagation.
--
Kay

In answer to mikes question , no it doesn't it has small bean like pods
above ground, underground it has a running tuberous root which forms
enlarged nodules both the roots and ground nuts are edible, it has defied
attempts to grow it commercially due to the 2 year cycle.

Thanks, both. It was the general selective advantage of sexual
reproduction that interested me: since so few species (of those known
to me, at any rate) do this trick, it presumably isn't a highly
adaptive character. Groundnuts seem like things which evolved alongside
some digging and hoarding animal, so they would have had a good means
of dispersal. Even if opened at once within a metre or two, I imagine a
pod would often enough be abandoned on the surface while at least one
seed remained intact -- going through a bowl of shells after my
pampered family had been at them provides some evidence for that.
Perhaps somebody can point me toward a good article somewhe I'm
getting fascinated.

--
Mike.

"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
oups.com...

Charlie Pridham wrote:
"K" wrote in message
...
Mike Lyle writes

I've often wondered why so few familiar plants
adopt the Burrowing Clover tactic of sowing their own seed in this
way.

Obvious limit on how far you can disperse.
If you're going the route of dispersing within 'plant's length' of
yourself, you'll do better with runners, though you don't get the
'future-proofing' of sexual propagation.
--
Kay

In answer to mikes question , no it doesn't it has small bean like pods
above ground, underground it has a running tuberous root which forms
enlarged nodules both the roots and ground nuts are edible, it has
defied
attempts to grow it commercially due to the 2 year cycle.

Thanks, both. It was the general selective advantage of sexual
reproduction that interested me: since so few species (of those known
to me, at any rate) do this trick, it presumably isn't a highly
adaptive character. Groundnuts seem like things which evolved alongside
some digging and hoarding animal, so they would have had a good means
of dispersal. Even if opened at once within a metre or two, I imagine a
pod would often enough be abandoned on the surface while at least one
seed remained intact -- going through a bowl of shells after my
pampered family had been at them provides some evidence for that.
Perhaps somebody can point me toward a good article somewhe I'm
getting fascinated.

--
Mike.

I think possibly that the north American name "ground nut" is misleading as
they can not regrow from the underground tubers/nuts they are just the food
reserves not seeds, you need a growing point as well. while peanuts which
are also called ground nuts are seeds which can be used to reproduce new
plants.
Violets often produce seed without needing fertilization, while other plants
seem to know if the plant is related and will not set seed readily by
crossing either with other flowers on themselves or a clone of themselves
but will set seed quite happily with a different genetic clone (i.e.
Lapageria) The plants I have the most trouble getting to set fruit are
Holboellia's and Akebia's, nothing I have tried seems to work, answers on a
postcard please!

--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collection of Clematis viticella (cvs)

In article .com,
"Mike Lyle" writes:
|
| Thanks, both. It was the general selective advantage of sexual
| reproduction that interested me: since so few species (of those known
| to me, at any rate) do this trick, it presumably isn't a highly
| adaptive character. ...

There is good evidence that the selective advantage of sexual reproduction
is fairly small in plants, because of the number of times that it has been
lost or reduced to a minor role. I have some suspicion that this may be
associated with the totipotency - the genetic resetting that occurs only
in the gonads of vertebrates occurs to a great extent in the apical tissue
of the vascular plants[+], and I suspect that it is associated with some
genetic shuffling.[*]

While I have precisely no formal education in biology etc. etc., my
record at such guesses is good. But the chances of my guesses being
right in detail are zilch.

| Perhaps somebody can point me toward a good article somewhe I'm
| getting fascinated.

I have never seen one. The reproductive biology of plants is very poorly
understood, not so much because it has had less attention than that of
vertebrates, but because it is a lot more complicated.

[+] Old plant cells often get old and die, just as mammalian ones do, but
there is no equivalent of the Hayflick limit for apical cells (at the
very least). Don't ask me to explain bush ivy etc. :-)
[*] Think of how food crops that can reproduce only vegetatively have as
many forms as those that reproduce sexually, and how common it is for
viable varieties to arise as natural sports on new shoots.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Charlie Pridham wrote:
"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
oups.com...

Charlie Pridham wrote:
"K" wrote in message
...
Mike Lyle writes

I've often wondered why so few familiar plants
adopt the Burrowing Clover tactic of sowing their own seed in this
way.

Obvious limit on how far you can disperse.
If you're going the route of dispersing within 'plant's length' of
yourself, you'll do better with runners, though you don't get the
'future-proofing' of sexual propagation.
--
Kay

In answer to mikes question , no it doesn't it has small bean like pods
above ground, underground it has a running tuberous root which forms
enlarged nodules both the roots and ground nuts are edible, it has
defied
attempts to grow it commercially due to the 2 year cycle.

Thanks, both. It was the general selective advantage of sexual
reproduction that interested me: since so few species (of those known
to me, at any rate) do this trick, it presumably isn't a highly
adaptive character. Groundnuts seem like things which evolved alongside
some digging and hoarding animal, so they would have had a good means
of dispersal. Even if opened at once within a metre or two, I imagine a
pod would often enough be abandoned on the surface while at least one
seed remained intact -- going through a bowl of shells after my
pampered family had been at them provides some evidence for that.
Perhaps somebody can point me toward a good article somewhe I'm
getting fascinated.

--
Mike.

I think possibly that the north American name "ground nut" is misleading as
they can not regrow from the underground tubers/nuts they are just the food
reserves not seeds, you need a growing point as well. while peanuts which
are also called ground nuts are seeds which can be used to reproduce new
plants.
[...]

Thanks, Charlie. I habitually call them "groundnuts" in an agricultural
context, reserving "peanuts" for the human snack. I didn't know that
was ambiguous -- though there was a clear hint in your information that
this tuberous species doesn't bury seeds. Perhaps we should adopt
"goober peas". (OT, I remember Bernard Levin calling Concorde "a flying
Groundnut Scheme".)

--
Mike.

In article .com,
"Mike Lyle" writes:
|
| Thanks, Charlie. I habitually call them "groundnuts" in an agricultural
| context, reserving "peanuts" for the human snack. I didn't know that
| was ambiguous -- though there was a clear hint in your information that
| this tuberous species doesn't bury seeds. Perhaps we should adopt
| "goober peas". (OT, I remember Bernard Levin calling Concorde "a flying
| Groundnut Scheme".)

That is the USA usage. The most common English names for Arachis hypogoea
were groundnut or monkey nut until the recent Americanisation of the UK.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Charlie Pridham writes

Violets often produce seed without needing fertilization,

Not only that, but without producing the full-scale showy flower. Do
they produce an insignificant flower which self fertilises, or what?

while other plants
seem to know if the plant is related and will not set seed readily by
crossing either with other flowers on themselves

Others will set seed with their own pollen, but have mechanical ways of
avoiding it - for example, it may have different sexed flowers appearing
at different times (eg courgette) or the stigma and anthers may grow at
different rates - stigma may be prominent at first to get good chance of
cross pollination, but if that fails, it will bend towards anthers and
pick up its own pollen (eg hippeastrum)

or a clone of themselves
but will set seed quite happily with a different genetic clone (i.e.
Lapageria) The plants I have the most trouble getting to set fruit are
Holboellia's and Akebia's, nothing I have tried seems to work, answers on a
postcard please!


--
Kay