Dear all,

I want to grow some cordon apple trees.

Should I start with 'maiden' tree stock on, for example, M27 rootstock?

Thanks,

Keith

Hello Keith
Maidens are the way to go.
M27 would not be my choice. Why, because it is a dwarfing rootstock.
The cordon is a restricted form, its maximim growth is restricted by
the rootstock. Thats fine if you are planting it as a tree, but you
want something tht has the vigour to cope with its leaves being pruned
off within an inch of its life each year. Up here M27 and M9 do not
fair well, they tend to be shallow rooted and don't like the wet.
I have a personal preference for MM106 as a rootstock. Although semi
vigourous it is daptable in terms of being trained into what ever you
want. Makes for good cordons. Have 29 apples on MM106 and 2 pears on
St Julian C.
I think of it like a bonsi, you clip the tops off to retain the shape
and if it gets vigourous, root prune. Push your spade down one side
one year,cutting through the roots. Repeat on the adjacent side the
following year. It sounds savage, yet those great fruit gardeners of
the Victoria era were at it all the time.
In terms of varieties what do you have planned? (good local source,
well relatively, the agroforestry reasearch trust -
www.agroforestry.co.uk)
Clifford
Bawtry, Doncaster, South Yorkshire

Hi Clifford,

Very many thanks for the benefit of your experience and your very
informative post.

I have been thinking about trying three apple varieties. We don't have any
at present. I thought of going for for cordons planted 'against' a strong
south facing fence. We have good, neutral soil (18in topsoil), a quite open
location with mild, coastal conditions, subject to high wind (but not direct
salt spray).

Bountiful, Charles Ross and Sturmer Pippin?

Any comments would be most welcome.

Best wishes,

Keith


"cliff_the_gardener" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hello Keith
Maidens are the way to go.
M27 would not be my choice. Why, because it is a dwarfing rootstock.
The cordon is a restricted form, its maximim growth is restricted by
the rootstock. Thats fine if you are planting it as a tree, but you
want something tht has the vigour to cope with its leaves being pruned
off within an inch of its life each year. Up here M27 and M9 do not
fair well, they tend to be shallow rooted and don't like the wet.
I have a personal preference for MM106 as a rootstock. Although semi
vigourous it is daptable in terms of being trained into what ever you
want. Makes for good cordons. Have 29 apples on MM106 and 2 pears on
St Julian C.
I think of it like a bonsi, you clip the tops off to retain the shape
and if it gets vigourous, root prune. Push your spade down one side
one year,cutting through the roots. Repeat on the adjacent side the
following year. It sounds savage, yet those great fruit gardeners of
the Victoria era were at it all the time.
In terms of varieties what do you have planned? (good local source,
well relatively, the agroforestry reasearch trust -
www.agroforestry.co.uk)
Clifford
Bawtry, Doncaster, South Yorkshire

Hello Keith

I grow Charles Ross, I like the apple; it is a good size, though can
get a little big for a dessert apple; need to thin the fruit to get the
best out of it. It eats well and cooks good too. Holds it shape and
turns a deep orange colour. One of its parents was Cox, so I guess
thats where its colour comes from. It does go soft as it ages.

Bountiful is a 1960's apple which also a cox as a parent. I have seen
the apple - looks good, but have no experience of growing it.

I like Sturmer Pippin, but it does need the autumn sun on it to get the
best from it. I would hope that you have a better chance at that down
there than here. Its parent is believed to be Ribston Pippin (a parent
of Cox - detect a theme there!) It looks more cox like without the
russeting. It keeps well so will see you into the new year happily.

They flower within a few days of each other, so polination should not
be a problem.

How are you going to grow them? Bush, cordon, espalier, central
leaders???

Clifford
Bawtry, Doncaster, South Yorkshire

Clifford,

Hello again and thanks for putting my mind to rest regarding the apple
varieties. It's good to hear from someone who has actually grown some of
them.

I will most likely go for cordons, but am also considering espaliers - the
latter problem being that our walls are dry-stone and not very flat!

I have room for one or two 'standards' and wonder if one of those varieties
might suit.

Anyway, I'm getting there gradually! Thanks again.

Keith


"cliff_the_gardener" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hello Keith

I grow Charles Ross, I like the apple; it is a good size, though can
get a little big for a dessert apple; need to thin the fruit to get the
best out of it. It eats well and cooks good too. Holds it shape and
turns a deep orange colour. One of its parents was Cox, so I guess
thats where its colour comes from. It does go soft as it ages.

Bountiful is a 1960's apple which also a cox as a parent. I have seen
the apple - looks good, but have no experience of growing it.

I like Sturmer Pippin, but it does need the autumn sun on it to get the
best from it. I would hope that you have a better chance at that down
there than here. Its parent is believed to be Ribston Pippin (a parent
of Cox - detect a theme there!) It looks more cox like without the
russeting. It keeps well so will see you into the new year happily.

They flower within a few days of each other, so polination should not
be a problem.

How are you going to grow them? Bush, cordon, espalier, central
leaders???

Clifford
Bawtry, Doncaster, South Yorkshire

Hello Keith
Don't worry about asking questions, better to get the thing clear in
your head.
Espaliers are a great way to grow, especially against a wall. When you
plant the tree it wants to be about 9"/22cm away from the wall, just
take a rough measure, it does not have to be millimeter prescision.
The tree wants some room to breath. You can gain the distance by
fixing the training wires on long vine eyes. The wires arn't taking
weight, they are for training

As far as growing as a tree, I would use Charles Ross, as I have found
it to be a partial tip bearer. Forms pleanty of spurs, but does fruit
on the end of new wood.

For a tree could I suggest Spartan, from British Columbia. It is a red
apple which has its colour develops has a white bloom to it. As it
ripens this disappears - so you know when to pick. It produces a nice
sized apple, around 60mm diameter and is a good reliable cropper. I
grafted one two years ago and is growing as a cordon, but the tree the
wood came from is in Barnsley, on an allotment, grown as a tree and is
clean and fruitful.

Up here in the north, cox does not do well but Suntan and Sunset are
more reliable and not as demanding. They should fair similarlly for
you. (As you seem partial to cox like apples!)

Regards

Clifford

Hi Cliff,

More grateful thanks for that. I will take listen to what you say and try to
include some.

I suspect the liking for Cox (types) comes from my childhood when my
granddad used to grow OP's. I learnt to prune from him... so I hope the new
varieties, which I suspect are an overall improvement, have not got more
complicated!

Best wishes from blustery Dorset,

Keith


"cliff_the_gardener" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hello Keith
Don't worry about asking questions, better to get the thing clear in
your head.
Espaliers are a great way to grow, especially against a wall. When you
plant the tree it wants to be about 9"/22cm away from the wall, just
take a rough measure, it does not have to be millimeter prescision.
The tree wants some room to breath. You can gain the distance by
fixing the training wires on long vine eyes. The wires arn't taking
weight, they are for training

As far as growing as a tree, I would use Charles Ross, as I have found
it to be a partial tip bearer. Forms pleanty of spurs, but does fruit
on the end of new wood.

For a tree could I suggest Spartan, from British Columbia. It is a red
apple which has its colour develops has a white bloom to it. As it
ripens this disappears - so you know when to pick. It produces a nice
sized apple, around 60mm diameter and is a good reliable cropper. I
grafted one two years ago and is growing as a cordon, but the tree the
wood came from is in Barnsley, on an allotment, grown as a tree and is
clean and fruitful.

Up here in the north, cox does not do well but Suntan and Sunset are
more reliable and not as demanding. They should fair similarlly for
you. (As you seem partial to cox like apples!)

Regards

Clifford