"Martin" wrote in message
...
On 25 Jan 2007 03:34:49 -0800, "La Puce" wrote:


If our attitude is to save money, many of us are saving money for the
long run, not for a quick fix. I have never expected anything to be
cheap. I have had this argument with my husband many times when he
finds something cheap and thinks it's a bargain. I hate bargains. I
know that it will break and that we will have no other choice but to
throw away.

Lidl and Aldi electrical goods have a three year guarantee and seem to be
the
same quality as more expensive stuff.
In a Consumer test the two best ABMs were EUR220 and EUR 30.
Price doesn't necessarily mean quality.

Those of us who have lived in NL too long are constantly looking for
bargains
and finding them. We rarely, if ever pay, the RRP. Almost everything we
own was
a bargain including our 20 year old Sony TV , which was cheap because it
had a
small blemish on the screen, but came with a full guarantee. We took it
back to
the Sony importer who exchanged it for one without any defects. Most of
our
white goods are "last years models". Who cares about the current fashion,
when
they last 20 years? BCC rules!
--

Martin

If you believe saving energy is important then I can assure you that brand
new white goods (Fridges/freezers/washers etc) are considerably more
efficient than 10 year old models.

Following up to "Rupert \(W.Yorkshire\)" :

If you believe saving energy is important then I can assure you that brand
new white goods (Fridges/freezers/washers etc) are considerably more
efficient than 10 year old models.

Perhaps, but probably not a whole lot lore than last year's models.
--
Tim C.

"Rupert (W.Yorkshire)" writes


If you believe saving energy is important then I can assure you that brand
new white goods (Fridges/freezers/washers etc) are considerably more
efficient than 10 year old models.

If you're starting from a position of needing a new fridge, yes.

How do the calculations go when it's a choice of
a) using the old one another 5-10 years, compared with
b) manufacture a new one 5-10 years earlier than otherwise, and dispose
of the old one 5-10 years earlier


--
Kay

Following up to K :

"Rupert (W.Yorkshire)" writes


If you believe saving energy is important then I can assure you that brand
new white goods (Fridges/freezers/washers etc) are considerably more
efficient than 10 year old models.

If you're starting from a position of needing a new fridge, yes.

How do the calculations go when it's a choice of
a) using the old one another 5-10 years, compared with
b) manufacture a new one 5-10 years earlier than otherwise, and dispose
of the old one 5-10 years earlier



From New Scientist Print Edition 12 May 1990

"To a householder, the power used to cool food may seem modest: after all,
even a large fridge-freezer costs only about 12 pence a day to run. But
there are more than 30 million fridges, freezers and fridge-freezers in
British homes, which between them consume more than GBP 1 billion worth of
electricity in a year. The average demand on the national grid, measured at
consumers' meters, is at least 2000 megawatts, the equivalent of the
continuous output of two large power stations. If these two power stations
generate electricity from coal, Britain's fridges and freezers are
responsible for emitting about 15 million tonnes of carbon dioxide a year
into the atmosphere...."

and...

"...Going one better, Britain could replace its existing stock of 30
million fridges, freezers and fridge-freezers with state-of-the-art
appliances and run the lot on just 200 megawatts. This means that we would
not need about 1800 megawatts of power and that we could therefore avoid
building about GBP 5 billion worth of power stations and infrastructure."


What the cost of disposal of the old fridges would be is anybody's guess.


--
Tim C.

"Tim C." wrote in message
...
Following up to K :

"Rupert (W.Yorkshire)" writes


If you believe saving energy is important then I can assure you that
brand
new white goods (Fridges/freezers/washers etc) are considerably more
efficient than 10 year old models.

If you're starting from a position of needing a new fridge, yes.

How do the calculations go when it's a choice of
a) using the old one another 5-10 years, compared with
b) manufacture a new one 5-10 years earlier than otherwise, and dispose
of the old one 5-10 years earlier



From New Scientist Print Edition 12 May 1990

"To a householder, the power used to cool food may seem modest: after all,
even a large fridge-freezer costs only about 12 pence a day to run. But
there are more than 30 million fridges, freezers and fridge-freezers in
British homes, which between them consume more than GBP 1 billion worth of
electricity in a year. The average demand on the national grid, measured
at
consumers' meters, is at least 2000 megawatts, the equivalent of the
continuous output of two large power stations. If these two power stations
generate electricity from coal, Britain's fridges and freezers are
responsible for emitting about 15 million tonnes of carbon dioxide a year
into the atmosphere...."

and...

"...Going one better, Britain could replace its existing stock of 30
million fridges, freezers and fridge-freezers with state-of-the-art
appliances and run the lot on just 200 megawatts. This means that we would
not need about 1800 megawatts of power and that we could therefore avoid
building about GBP 5 billion worth of power stations and infrastructure."


What the cost of disposal of the old fridges would be is anybody's guess.


--
Tim C.

So the question is how much energy is required to replace and distribute
"new for old fridges" to everyone. =NFO (LE=Life expectancy)
If NFO 1800 x LE then it's a good job.

We must take into account the anti depressant drug manufacture energy cost
for all the overworked and then redundant fridge production workers.

Following up to "Rupert \(W.Yorkshire\)" :

We must take into account the anti depressant drug manufacture energy cost
for all the overworked and then redundant fridge production workers.


LOL!
--
Tim C.

Tim C. writes
Following up to K :

"Rupert (W.Yorkshire)" writes


If you believe saving energy is important then I can assure you that brand
new white goods (Fridges/freezers/washers etc) are considerably more
efficient than 10 year old models.

If you're starting from a position of needing a new fridge, yes.

How do the calculations go when it's a choice of
a) using the old one another 5-10 years, compared with
b) manufacture a new one 5-10 years earlier than otherwise, and dispose
of the old one 5-10 years earlier



From New Scientist Print Edition 12 May 1990

"To a householder, the power used to cool food may seem modest: after all,
even a large fridge-freezer costs only about 12 pence a day to run. But
there are more than 30 million fridges, freezers and fridge-freezers in
British homes, which between them consume more than GBP 1 billion worth of
electricity in a year. The average demand on the national grid, measured at
consumers' meters, is at least 2000 megawatts, the equivalent of the
continuous output of two large power stations. If these two power stations
generate electricity from coal, Britain's fridges and freezers are
responsible for emitting about 15 million tonnes of carbon dioxide a year
into the atmosphere...."

and...

"...Going one better, Britain could replace its existing stock of 30
million fridges, freezers and fridge-freezers with state-of-the-art
appliances and run the lot on just 200 megawatts. This means that we would
not need about 1800 megawatts of power and that we could therefore avoid
building about GBP 5 billion worth of power stations and infrastructure."


What the cost of disposal of the old fridges would be is anybody's guess.

I'm not convinced that argument has taken in the costs of manufacture
either.


--
Kay

"K" wrote in message
...
"Rupert (W.Yorkshire)" writes


If you believe saving energy is important then I can assure you that brand
new white goods (Fridges/freezers/washers etc) are considerably more
efficient than 10 year old models.

If you're starting from a position of needing a new fridge, yes.

How do the calculations go when it's a choice of
a) using the old one another 5-10 years, compared with
b) manufacture a new one 5-10 years earlier than otherwise, and dispose of
the old one 5-10 years earlier


--
Kay

I don't know and worse than that it is almost impossible to get the figures
to do the calculation. I doubt that any correct calculated data is
available.
Perhaps all goods should have a sticker which states "Energy used to make
this":-)
Incidentally I did replace and old fridge with a new one on the basis that
the energy saving cost (to me) negated the new cost before the estimated
demise of the new fridge.
I think that demonstrates the general misconceptions about environmental
and economic issues:-)