On 17/2/07 16:56, in article
, "La Puce"
wrote:

On 17 Feb, 16:43, Sacha wrote:
Charlie did not advise me to see that variety at Burncoose, he advised me to
ask which they have in their car park. That remark is extremely misleading.

You said you've never heard of Jackmans', that your husband Ray has
never heard of it, that google don't show it and that your books don't
have it. That means you think I'm talking bollox again. I've found the
Jackman's at Burncoose because they sell it and that's the one they
have in their carpark.

If you persist in calling a plant by the wrong name, people cannot find it.
You still call this plant "Jackman's", which is not its name. Charlie
suggested I ask Burncoose which rosemary they have in their car park and I
have done so. Neither Charlie nor Burncoose - yet - have told me this is R.
"Jackman's Prostrate". If it is the one our friends have, all well and good
but if it is not, all your jumping up and down is to no avail. You expect
me to take your word for the name of a plant neither of us has seen at
Burncoose but which I *might* have seen growing in a garden you have never
been to! That is not how plant identification works. I am wary of
accepting that name for it because it is the name given to it by few (two?)
nurseries and because it is not named as a new discovery or breed. This
makes me think that whoever had it first simply didn't know what it was and
called it after the person who gave it to them, or found it in their garden,
or while on holiday etc. That's not unusual and it happens a LOT but it
also means this plant might be known by another name altogether, for longer
and more correctly. This is ALL I have been trying, fruitlessly, to get
over to you.


But that is not even sufficient for you. I have
grown lavenders and rosemaries all my life in England and in France.

My husband has grown more plants than you've ever seen - over 3000 here
alone - but he would never boast as you do or claim to know for certain the
identity of a possibly mis-identified variety he had never actually laid
eyes on. You haven't even *seen* this rosemary in our friends' garden but
now you're an expert on it - please apply a bit of common sense!

And in France my grand dad had so many varieties I have learnt to
distinguish them from their flowers and leaves and then their growing
habit. That's why I asked you about the leaves.

Are you telling me your grandfather grew R. "Jackman's Prostrate" in France,
so that is how you recognised it from my description when even its owners
don't know what it is?

Do you want some proof or are you going to continually confront me
with your unfounded remarks? We can all see that I had given you 5
differents prostratus rosemaries, 2 could be the one of the one you
are looking for. You didn't know about Jackman's and hold and behold
it's the one the nursery Charlie mentioned has in their car park and
has for sale. So you were WRONG.

Oh god, here we go again. You gave me some which were absolutely incapable
of being the one I'm seeking. This is not convincing. You have now gone
back to your old trick of losing your temper when your holy writ is not
accepted and swallowed wholesale. I have *already said* that the variety
our friends have may yet turn out to be the one you name but I have also
said that I am not convinced the name is correct and carefully explained
why. (The variety you're harping on about is not called "Jackman's", for
the umpteenth time and that is why I couldn't find it - your sloppiness, not
mine)

You are cornered and you still go on and on. On food.uk.misc you are
arguing constantly and when you are done with your vile remarks you
move back in here and start again. Then you go on away and it's nice
here. But then you come back and we all have to revolve around Mr and
Mrs Hubbard who know everything. But this time you didn't.

That last remark is very revealing about you, Helene. You would like this
group to revolve around you but because most people have you kill filed,
even you have complained of being given the cold shoulder. So all you're
doing here is going on to prove why that is the case.
You do not contribute to uk.food and it is nothing to do with you, other
than your background stirring, of course.
The sad fact for you Puce, is that unlike you, I neither claim nor pretend
to know everything. Your past record here makes anyone with a grain of
sense be wary of what you say.

You are a trully horrible and sad woman and we can all see your
demented attitude. Carry on Hubbard, it's really funny actually.

And off she goes with the insults and the adolescent foot stamp. Because I
do not accept your every word you become angry and silly and even less
credible. And I'm the one that's supposed to be demented.....

ps. My RSH Herbs encyclopedia has Jackman's. Amazing isn't it.


It has been sent to the Plant Finder, that's why.
I wish that, before you give us another display of your loss of temper, I
could get this through to you!

That does not mean it's a different variety nobody other than Burncoose and
one other has, nor does it mean that it's the one I'm seeking an ID for. It
might be, it might not. Time will tell. What it does mean is that
Burncoose calls it that. This happens elsewhere, too. It might be the true
and proper name or it might be something a Mr Jackman or Son of Mr Jackman
gave them or someone else, from a plant he discovered in e.g. Crete in 2004
or 1921. As I said earlier, if you bothered to read my posts properly, I
haven't seen this particular plant in Salcombe for about a year and when I
can I will photograph it and post a photo and a more particular description.

Perhaps you don't know how the Plant Finder and the contribution of entries
to it, works. The RHS does its absolutely scrupulous best to ensure things
are named correctly but it really is not possible for them - or nurseries -
to check each plant individually, especially if it has passed from hand to
hand over the years and its true name has been forgotten or it has been left
out of the Plant Finder for some reason and for some time. When
're-discovered', it might be given another name altogether. For example,
there are a lot of old apple trees unknown and unidentified, AIUI.

For example, the Lonicera I mentioned in an earlier post, was sent to Wisley
but the ID they sent back for it was absolutely nothing like the one we have
so we cannot in all conscience enter it into the Plant Finder under any name
other than our own; a friend gave Ray a Canna that he had brought back from
Lesotho but didn't know and Ray - in jest - called it Canna 'Lesotho Lil'.
One of our staff sold it to someone who turned out to be another nurseryman
who put it in the Plant Finder as C. 'Lesotho Lil' and he had every right to
do so. It's in there under that name attached to this nursery, too. If you
took it to the experts and spent quite a bit of money on researching it in
the field etc., it might turn out to be something quite different but that
just doesn't happen. People only spend a lot of money on the provenance of
plants for which they are seeking PBR. And frankly, most customers simply
don't care what a plant's provenance is, if they like the plant.

In the meantime, I suggest you check this tantrum before it goes any further
and you end up in even more kill files. All you're doing is reminding those
who haven't kill filed you why it is that others have.
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/
(remove weeds from address)

"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...


In the meantime, I suggest you check this tantrum

Might I respectfully suggest that you take advice and treatment for your
aggression?

Your display shows just why you kill file people you cannot 'control'

:-((

La Puce, don't let this woman control you. Let her kill file you and show
just how little control she has over her own temper.

Sad for a woman of her age :-(( First stages of senile dementia I wonder?

Mike


--
.................................................. .........
Royal Naval Electrical Branch Association
www.rnshipmates.co.uk
www.nsrafa.com

On 17 Feb, 18:08, Sacha wrote:
If you persist in calling a plant by the wrong name, people cannot find it.
You still call this plant "Jackman's", which is not its name. Charlie
suggested I ask Burncoose which rosemary they have in their car park and I
have done so. Neither Charlie nor Burncoose - yet - have told me this is R.
"Jackman's Prostrate". If it is the one our friends have, all well and good
but if it is not, all your jumping up and down is to no avail.

(light pruning)

Sacha - it's fine. You need to also calm down. I understand what you
are getting at now. Put simply, I get it see, but if you don't tell me
what you mean, then I won't know. Not yet psychic but also I don't
have your knowledge. Yet. Give me a couple of decades. You are now
saying that the RHS plant finder has the wrong named plant in it.
Thank god you're here. That's all I have to say.

As for boasting - I don't do it more than you, beleive me. However,
before you tell us that your customers wouldn't care less about the
provenance of their plants and you boasting about your god daughter
activities in Totnes, perhaps she'd care to know, prior to inviting
Paul Mobbs and Kate Dooley, who I happen to have met, that you sell
regardless of provenance. Ho, but you don't, your husband does. Silly
me. I get so confused to what you actually do in that nursery. What do
you actually do?!

As for the killfiling - you've done a good job there. Telling people
to kill file others is indeed a great pass time of yours. It's easier
than being found out incorrect or are we just a little bit too
controlling here?! By the way, a few have stopped even reading you if
you must know.

Hope you find your plant - I couldn't care less anymore.

On 17/2/07 18:32, in article
, "La Puce"
wrote:

On 17 Feb, 18:08, Sacha wrote:
If you persist in calling a plant by the wrong name, people cannot find it.
You still call this plant "Jackman's", which is not its name. Charlie
suggested I ask Burncoose which rosemary they have in their car park and I
have done so. Neither Charlie nor Burncoose - yet - have told me this is R.
"Jackman's Prostrate". If it is the one our friends have, all well and good
but if it is not, all your jumping up and down is to no avail.

(light pruning)

Sacha - it's fine. You need to also calm down. I understand what you
are getting at now. Put simply, I get it see, but if you don't tell me
what you mean, then I won't know. Not yet psychic but also I don't
have your knowledge. Yet. Give me a couple of decades. You are now
saying that the RHS plant finder has the wrong named plant in it.
Thank god you're here. That's all I have to say.

Maybe incorrectly named. Only maybe. Maybe it's a new sport - who knows?
You don't but you are *determined* to ram it down my throat when all I'm
trying to do is be a bit cautious.
Are you saying that you're not aware that plants are sometimes incorrectly
misattributed and that when that is discovered, corrections are made?
Really? You've never seen that in the Plant Finder?
I could not find that plant because you didn't give its correct name - you
missed out the 'prostrate' bit which was the final, essential component. As
you know, people can only identify plants by their Latin names if they get
the whole story and Latin names make it easier for everyone to know what
they're talking about or looking for.

As for boasting - I don't do it more than you, beleive me. However,
before you tell us that your customers wouldn't care less about the
provenance of their plants and you boasting about your god daughter
activities in Totnes, perhaps she'd care to know, prior to inviting
Paul Mobbs and Kate Dooley, who I happen to have met, that you sell
regardless of provenance.

What on earth are you talking about? My god daughter talked to us about
these matters and meeting one of those involved (not those you name).
Knowing that they lie within the interest of some people who are here, I
posted some detail about it. This is 'showing off'? She isn't 'inviting'
anyone here or anywhere else. It has nothing to do with me at all so once
again, you have not read a post properly. You do this over and over again
and then it's everyone else's fault but yours.

Ho, but you don't, your husband does. Silly
me. I get so confused to what you actually do in that nursery. What do
you actually do?!

What I do here is nothing that need concern you, Helene. Just as what you do
at URBED Manchester, doesn't interest me or anyone else.
But here we are - you're trying once more to denigrate my husband's
business. I really don't know what's wrong with you and I don't care but you
have taken my words and a well-meant piece of information that could, in
fact, be useful to you and twisted it to libel this business. I do assure
you that if you continue on that line, you will most certainly be brought to
book for it.
You simply cannot take on board information. Any nursery that tells you it
knows that a lily from Lesotho is *precisely* x, y or z is not being
truthful. If, OTOH, you prefer to be lied to by someone who does gives you
that assurance, then you will be duped and serve you right. Your plant
knowledge is not great and it's certainly not improving with this attitude
of "Miss Never Wrong".

As for the killfiling - you've done a good job there. Telling people
to kill file others is indeed a great pass time of yours. It's easier
than being found out incorrect or are we just a little bit too
controlling here?! By the way, a few have stopped even reading you if
you must know.

No, Helene, everyone who answered me before and was interesting to me, still
does so. Those who don't are no loss, frankly. I don't advise kill filing,
other than the persistent trolls who post about unrelated matters, quite
the contrary. I think every member of a group should be aware of the
mischief being made on it by people like you. So I read everyone who posts
to this group on a regular and group-orientated basis, unfortunately for
you. You have relied on being in peoples' kill files in the past so as to
do your nasty worst - doesn't work with me, I'm afraid.

Hope you find your plant - I couldn't care less anymore.

Tsk. From this I think we may deduce that you've been taught something you
really don't want to learn from someone you don't wish to listen to. Your
loss.
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/
(remove weeds from address)

"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...


Doesn't give up does she?

What a sad sad woman :-(((

More to be pitied than blamed?

Mike


--
.................................................. .........
Royal Naval Electrical Branch Association
www.rnshipmates.co.uk
www.nsrafa.com

On 17 Feb, 19:11, Sacha wrote:
Maybe incorrectly named. Only maybe. Maybe it's a new sport - who knows?
You don't but you are *determined* to ram it down my throat when all I'm
trying to do is be a bit cautious.
Are you saying that you're not aware that plants are sometimes incorrectly
misattributed and that when that is discovered, corrections are made?
Really? You've never seen that in the Plant Finder?
I could not find that plant because you didn't give its correct name - you
missed out the 'prostrate' bit which was the final, essential component. As
you know, people can only identify plants by their Latin names if they get
the whole story and Latin names make it easier for everyone to know what
they're talking about or looking for.

Sacha it's enough now. I've said 3 times prostatus rosemaries, I've
given you 5 possibilities, I've told you the one I have, I've
mentioned Jackman's and blue rain, both are really creeping,
scrambling, climbing rosemaries R.prostratus VARIETY Jackmans' and
Blue Rain, I've told you where to find them, you told me one didn't
exsisted, I prooved you wrong, I've told you what I thought and your
reply to me was 'Not remotely close to what blablabla....'. And now
'maybe', 'couldn't find it because of wrong name'? What wrong name?
I've said prostratus rosemarinus - plus two different varieties.

Now **** off.

On 17/2/07 19:27, in article
, "La Puce"
wrote:

On 17 Feb, 19:11, Sacha wrote:
Maybe incorrectly named. Only maybe. Maybe it's a new sport - who knows?
You don't but you are *determined* to ram it down my throat when all I'm
trying to do is be a bit cautious.
Are you saying that you're not aware that plants are sometimes incorrectly
misattributed and that when that is discovered, corrections are made?
Really? You've never seen that in the Plant Finder?
I could not find that plant because you didn't give its correct name - you
missed out the 'prostrate' bit which was the final, essential component. As
you know, people can only identify plants by their Latin names if they get
the whole story and Latin names make it easier for everyone to know what
they're talking about or looking for.

Sacha it's enough now. I've said 3 times prostatus rosemaries, I've
given you 5 possibilities, I've told you the one I have, I've
mentioned Jackman's and blue rain, both are really creeping,
scrambling, climbing rosemaries R.prostratus VARIETY Jackmans' and
Blue Rain, I've told you where to find them, you told me one didn't
exsisted, I prooved you wrong, I've told you what I thought and your
reply to me was 'Not remotely close to what blablabla....'. And now
'maybe', 'couldn't find it because of wrong name'? What wrong name?
I've said prostratus rosemarinus - plus two different varieties.

Now **** off.

Always the lady. Thank you so much

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/
(remove weeds from address)

On Feb 18, 1:24 am, Sacha wrote:
On 17/2/07 19:27, in article
om, "La Puce"





wrote:
On 17 Feb, 19:11, Sacha wrote:
Maybe incorrectly named. Only maybe. Maybe it's a new sport - who knows?
You don't but you are *determined* to ram it down my throat when all I'm
trying to do is be a bit cautious.
Are you saying that you're not aware that plants are sometimes incorrectly
misattributed and that when that is discovered, corrections are made?
Really? You've never seen that in the Plant Finder?
I could not find that plant because you didn't give its correct name - you
missed out the 'prostrate' bit which was the final, essential component. As
you know, people can only identify plants by their Latin names if they get
the whole story and Latin names make it easier for everyone to know what
they're talking about or looking for.

Sacha it's enough now. I've said 3 times prostatus rosemaries, I've
given you 5 possibilities, I've told you the one I have, I've
mentioned Jackman's and blue rain, both are really creeping,
scrambling, climbing rosemaries R.prostratus VARIETY Jackmans' and
Blue Rain, I've told you where to find them, you told me one didn't
exsisted, I prooved you wrong, I've told you what I thought and your
reply to me was 'Not remotely close to what blablabla....'. And now
'maybe', 'couldn't find it because of wrong name'? What wrong name?
I've said prostratus rosemarinus - plus two different varieties.

Now **** off.

Always the lady. Thank you so much

--
Sachahttp://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devonhttp://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/
(remove weeds from address)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I don't take a certain person's posts but unfortunately it has got
reposted. What a truly horrid vulgar person, I don't know of any lady
on urg who would ever use such words, anyone would think they were
uttered by a guttersnipe.

Anyway lets change the subject to much nicer thoughts.

I have returned from France and want to thank Janet Tweedy for her
package which she kindly sent to me on the garden group local to her.
There was a huge programme of events and outings to gardens,
competitions etc. If only we had such a group in Norwich as she does
in Bucks. Janet, I notice one of the outings is halfway between us!!

Does anyone else have a thriving gardening group in their area?

JudithL at home

In article . com,
" writes

I have returned from France and want to thank Janet Tweedy for her
package which she kindly sent to me on the garden group local to her.


Ah well as editor, website and tea and coffee monitor I can send these
things out
Hope you enjoyed the read.



There was a huge programme of events and outings to gardens,
competitions etc. If only we had such a group in Norwich as she does
in Bucks. Janet, I notice one of the outings is halfway between us!!

There's quite a few interesting places over your neck of the woods
Judith so we often find places to visit. Many of our members are lucky
enough to have both the time and the money to enjoy these trips.

I guess some areas have members who can't take time off on a Saturday
or middle of the week to go on excursions.
Why not advertise and start a club? Even a small group can be viable
and you might attract quite a few like minded souls out your way for
trips and the occasional speaker. I belong to a fair few clubs and some
have very few members but nevertheless they get to gardens and so on.
Many NGS and other special gardens are owned by people who are happy to
arrange a private visit for a small group.


Does anyone else have a thriving gardening group in their area?


I did find it strange that when I wrote to the RHS both this year and
last year to see if they had a list of Gardening clubs and societies
(even limited to only those affiliated to the RHS) they claimed that
because of privacy laws they couldn't divulge the whereabouts of any of
them!! They could only give me the secretary of the local club to my
area which is just plain daft. I travel to Reading for the HPS and also
to Hertford, so areas can be quite far apart but still be wroth
attending if a special speaker or subject is available.

Why on earth wouldn't the societies want people to know who or where
they were? Surely there must be a definitive list.
When/if we ever move this will colour my decision and thoughts about
several areas (well that and a good dentist, vets and place to walk the
dogs!)


--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

On 17 Feb, 19:05, Jennifer Sparkes wrote:
I read this to mean that Sacha's god daughter had dropped by
with a brochure that she had _picked up_ in Totnes, _not_ that
Sacha's god daughter was organising it.
Goes to show how differently one can read threads or even read things
into threads!
I am not saying my interpretation is the right one - just this is how I
saw it.
I guess it is a case of the written word being easier to misunderstand
than the spoken one!

Sure. You're right. Sorry. It could indeed be. I suggest a couple of
things and I get barked at and then it never ends because it goes on
about previous querels etc. and I get so put down all the time, and if
the post start nice it gets nasty as you read it. It's crazy. Best be
ignored. Right now I've got a delicious chicken to eat - made a curry
sauce with prawns for it. Bon appetit.

On 17/2/07 19:05, in article ,
"Jennifer Sparkes" wrote:

The message .com
from "La Puce" contains these words:

... snip ... you boasting about your god daughter activities in
Totnes,

Quote for the other thread:-

(" My god daughter called on Thursday, bringing with her some
brochures for www.transitiontowns.org/Totnes

It's an organisation which looks into how to prepare for and adapt
to life "beyond cheap oil and gas". )

I read this to mean that Sacha's god daughter had dropped by
with a brochure that she had _picked up_ in Totnes, _not_ that
Sacha's god daughter was organising it.

Goes to show how differently one can read threads or even read things
into threads!

I am not saying my interpretation is the right one - just this is how I
saw it.

I guess it is a case of the written word being easier to misunderstand
than the spoken one!

Jennifer

That is exactly what I mean and thank you, Jennifer. I must say that remark
about me 'boasting' from someone who boasts endlessly about her 'save the
planet' quango really is quite funny. Actually my god daughter is writing a
book on this subject and is interviewing a number of people from different
organisations of this type.
Of course, reading what is actually written helps, too!

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/
(remove weeds from address)

"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
On 17/2/07 16:56, in article
, "La Puce"
wrote:

On 17 Feb, 16:43, Sacha wrote:
Charlie did not advise me to see that variety at Burncoose, he advised
me to
ask which they have in their car park. That remark is extremely
misleading.

You said you've never heard of Jackmans', that your husband Ray has
never heard of it, that google don't show it and that your books don't
have it. That means you think I'm talking bollox again. I've found the
Jackman's at Burncoose because they sell it and that's the one they
have in their carpark.

If you persist in calling a plant by the wrong name, people cannot find
it.
You still call this plant "Jackman's", which is not its name. Charlie
suggested I ask Burncoose which rosemary they have in their car park and I
have done so.

I don't know why you bother responding to La Puke!

Alan

On 17/2/07 23:59, in article ,
"Alan Holmes" wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
On 17/2/07 16:56, in article
, "La Puce"
wrote:

On 17 Feb, 16:43, Sacha wrote:
Charlie did not advise me to see that variety at Burncoose, he advised
me to
ask which they have in their car park. That remark is extremely
misleading.

You said you've never heard of Jackmans', that your husband Ray has
never heard of it, that google don't show it and that your books don't
have it. That means you think I'm talking bollox again. I've found the
Jackman's at Burncoose because they sell it and that's the one they
have in their carpark.

If you persist in calling a plant by the wrong name, people cannot find
it.
You still call this plant "Jackman's", which is not its name. Charlie
suggested I ask Burncoose which rosemary they have in their car park and I
have done so.

I don't know why you bother responding to La Puke!

Alan

I persist in this belief that everyone deserves a hearing. Never again.
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/
(remove weeds from address)

"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...


I persist in this belief that everyone deserves a hearing. Never again.
--
Sacha

You've said that before. AND you said you were leaving but you are still
here.

You're a liar.

and a bossy school marm one at that.

Mike


--
.................................................. .........
Royal Naval Electrical Branch Association
www.rnshipmates.co.uk
www.nsrafa.com

On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 08:03:32 -0000, "'Mike'"
wrote:

"Sacha" wrote in message
.uk...


I persist in this belief that everyone deserves a hearing. Never again.
--
Sacha

You've said that before. AND you said you were leaving but you are still
here.

You're a liar.

and a bossy school marm one at that.

Mike

Why is it that you find it necessary to be so offensive, and
particularly to women? Do you have get off on some sort of domination,
or did you have your face slapped by a girl you were rude to?

And why are you such a hypocrit? In the previous thread, you answered
a poster who asked about non-harmful methods of deterring cats by
suggesting poisoning and shooting; and now you are crtiticising Sacha
for being rude.

You know that La Puce and Sacha have had disagreements in the post, so
you jump in here to provoke another one.

In all the time you have posted in this NG you have NEVER contributed
one single useful comment - you just cause trouble.

It's time you sought professional help, and in the meantime please
leave us alone to discuss gardening matters without your interference.