T i m writes
On Sat, 26 May 2007 15:39:20 +0100, Gill Matthews Try the
wrote:


I've torn up some egg boxes and bog roll tubes and added some (long)
grass that I cut yesterday. I might go with your shredding idea as
that is something we need to 'get rid of'

Egg boxes, bog rolls tubes, corrugated cardboard are all good, as are
tissues and kitchen paper. Cereal boxes and other shiny cardboard will
rot down but take longer. In winter, my heap is 90% paper and cardboard.
Beware those little transparent windows in envelopes - they don't rot.
And fruit juice boxes, which have a layer of plastic under the
cardboard.

When I was giving it a good stir earlier I noticed the bottom ~6" was
a fairly dark black, consistent 'stuff' and although I might have seen
a worm or two there were quite a few woodlice (and what may have been
the beginnings of an ant's nest). After giving it a good turn over it
all smelt a bit better as well. ;-)

I'd have fished the bottom 6inches out and used it ;-)
Make room for more new stuff.


--
Kay

On Sat, 26 May 2007 21:26:01 +0100, K wrote:

polite snip

Ok and ta muchly. It actually started off as somewhere for kitchen
scraps so hasn't really had any true garden stuff in there as yet. I
did strim the front and back gardens today (well, my
next-door-neighbours gardens as we borrow them) so I have enough
matter to fill our little bin several times over.

I think you'll find your problems are over.

phew ;-)

I'll have to get
some topsoil from somewhere as we don't have any 'surplus'. I don't
suppose a bag of the bought stuff would come with worms would it?

No!!!! Don't pay good money for anything to put on your compost heap!!!

LOL. The trouble_is, some of us have boxes of spare computer parts or
lengths of metal turning stock and others have 'spare topsoil' ?

I do
have a fairly big plastic planter that is full of soil (used for
French beans last year) would some of that do?

Ideal.

Ok, I wasn't going to grow anything in that one this year anyway ;-)

I'll put 'some' grass and soil in there as you suggest and give it a
drink. Apart from doing the boy thing (I keep forgetting) how much
water would I apply to a half filled std plastic dustbin would you say
please?

I'd chuck a bucket full in. Doesn't matter if you overwater, as you're
open to the ground and any excess will drain away.

Ah, I was wondering about that .. so is the issue here to get
everything 'wet' without washing everything away?

All the best ..

T i m

On Sat, 26 May 2007 21:30:10 +0100, K wrote:

T i m writes
On Sat, 26 May 2007 15:07:47 GMT, Pam Moore
wrote:

On Sat, 26 May 2007 11:23:04 GMT, T i m wrote:

Apparently a 'good sign' that 'something' is going on in there is that
in spite of adding to it fairly regularly it seems to be going down as
fast as we add to it .. and that's in spite of not having 'watered' it
at all (till now) and not having it in an ideal container?

That's good. Just wait till you get the good brown stuff out of the
bottom. Such a feeling of satisfaction!

I bet. I was explaining the 'boy watering' process (in passing so to
speak) to our 16yr old this morning .. she said she would be eating
out from now on! ;-)

You should *never* mention bodily functions to teenagers. They are
ridiculously squeamish.

;-)

Sfunny, this one isn't generally squeamish, does Tae Kwon-Do, rides a
trials motorbike, will happily pick up all sorts of creatures and hold
snakes and lizards all day long, but will she use the Port-Potti in
the (private) porch awning (just for a No1) on holiday when we are in
our folding caravan .. no, she'd rather walk across to the toilet
block in the pouring rain! shrug

Having kids of their own generally sorts them out.

Indeed ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

T i m writes

I'll have to get
some topsoil from somewhere as we don't have any 'surplus'. I don't
suppose a bag of the bought stuff would come with worms would it?

No!!!! Don't pay good money for anything to put on your compost heap!!!

LOL. The trouble_is, some of us have boxes of spare computer parts or
lengths of metal turning stock and others have 'spare topsoil' ?

And some of us have the whole lot (or our husbands do) ;-(


I'd chuck a bucket full in. Doesn't matter if you overwater, as you're
open to the ground and any excess will drain away.

Ah, I was wondering about that .. so is the issue here to get
everything 'wet' without washing everything away?

That's exactly it.

I suppose the thing is to decide whether your compost is going to be a
source of nutrients or a soil conditioner. You're going to worry more
about leaching away nutrients if you want your compost to be full of
nutrients. I think compost is best regarded as a soil conditioner,
adding humus and aiding water retention, and making it easier to pull
out weeds.
--
Kay

Sfunny, this one isn't generally squeamish, does Tae Kwon-Do, rides a
trials motorbike, will happily pick up all sorts of creatures and hold
snakes and lizards all day long, but will she use the Port-Potti in
the (private) porch awning (just for a No1) on holiday when we are in
our folding caravan .. no, she'd rather walk across to the toilet
block in the pouring rain! shrug

That's exactly what I mean. Outward manifestations of toughness coupled
with extreme wimpishness when confronted with emanations from human or
animal bodies.

Tae Kwon-do is no guarantee against squeamishness. I once had to rescue
a karate student - she was being held hostage in the changing room by a
centipede.

And it's not just a girl thing - a clutch of sub teenage boys scattered
as I carried the thing towards the door.
--
Kay

On Sun, 27 May 2007 14:06:02 +0100, K wrote:


LOL. The trouble_is, some of us have boxes of spare computer parts or
lengths of metal turning stock and others have 'spare topsoil' ?

And some of us have the whole lot (or our husbands do) ;-(

Oh, and big houses and gardens .. weg


I'd chuck a bucket full in. Doesn't matter if you overwater, as you're
open to the ground and any excess will drain away.

Ah, I was wondering about that .. so is the issue here to get
everything 'wet' without washing everything away?

That's exactly it.

Sweet ;-)

I suppose the thing is to decide whether your compost is going to be a
source of nutrients or a soil conditioner.

I spose I hadn't really considered it that far K ..

You're going to worry more
about leaching away nutrients if you want your compost to be full of
nutrients. I think compost is best regarded as a soil conditioner,
adding humus and aiding water retention, and making it easier to pull
out weeds.

Ok (n thanks).

Well the black fabric stuff seems to have done a pretty good job of
keeping stuff away up till now with just a few blades of grass poking
through and a bit of bindweed running underneath since last year.

I popped into my gardener mates this arvo and we were discussing what
else I could safely start this year and we came down to maybe some
(batches of) spring onions (we have them in salads and stir-frys).

I'd like some broad beans but I'm not sure they are worth it (at least
with runners you eat the whole thing)?

Last year I had a few toms but they took a long time to turn red then
often split before you could get to them. What were more successful
(in taste if not quantity) where the tumbler toms my mate gave me in a
hanging basket.

I did get one cucumber off the two plants but the slugs took care of
the rest. I wonder if my Sisters runner ducks like slugs? ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

On Sun, 27 May 2007 14:09:57 +0100, K wrote:


Sfunny, this one isn't generally squeamish, does Tae Kwon-Do, rides a
trials motorbike, will happily pick up all sorts of creatures and hold
snakes and lizards all day long, but will she use the Port-Potti in
the (private) porch awning (just for a No1) on holiday when we are in
our folding caravan .. no, she'd rather walk across to the toilet
block in the pouring rain! shrug

That's exactly what I mean. Outward manifestations of toughness coupled
with extreme wimpishness when confronted with emanations from human or
animal bodies.

So true!

Tae Kwon-do is no guarantee against squeamishness. I once had to rescue
a karate student - she was being held hostage in the changing room by a
centipede.

giggle

And it's not just a girl thing - a clutch of sub teenage boys scattered
as I carried the thing towards the door.

Oooerr!

You didn't do what someone holding a spider typically does when they
see an Arachnophobia suffer K .. that open yer hand out and say
"Woooaaahhhhaaa" ? ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

T i m writes
On Sun, 27 May 2007 14:06:02 +0100, K wrote:


I'd like some broad beans but I'm not sure they are worth it (at least
with runners you eat the whole thing)?

Oh, they're well worth it (assuming you like broad beans) - you pick
them slightly young, before the skins have had time to toughen up, and
they are delicious.

Climbing French beans are worth it, if you like them - they're so
expensive to buy and usually seem to have been flown in from Kenya.

In general, go for things you really enjoy which are expensive to buy.

I grow lots of fruit - it's more forgiving than veg. With things which
are grown in one season, you have to do things to timetable, whereas
perennial stuff can cope with things being delayed by a few weeks.
--
Kay

On Sun, 27 May 2007 23:47:05 +0100, K wrote:

T i m writes
On Sun, 27 May 2007 14:06:02 +0100, K wrote:


I'd like some broad beans but I'm not sure they are worth it (at least
with runners you eat the whole thing)?

Oh, they're well worth it (assuming you like broad beans)

I do, probably alongside peas and both behind runners ;-)

- you pick
them slightly young, before the skins have had time to toughen up, and
they are delicious.

Ok. But am I too late to start some Broad beans now K, or can I get
them ready to put out (as I have via my mate and the runners)? Do they
climb up canes like runners?

Climbing French beans are worth it, if you like them - they're so
expensive to buy and usually seem to have been flown in from Kenya.

Ok. I had some dwarf beans as well last year but (not surprisingly) I
didn't get that many (or much should I say, as far as a meal goes
anyway).

In general, go for things you really enjoy which are expensive to buy.

I enjoy cheap environmentally good transport so 'Bio diesel'! ;-)

I grow lots of fruit - it's more forgiving than veg.

Is there any fruit you could grow in a border like strip do you think
please K?

With things which
are grown in one season, you have to do things to timetable, whereas
perennial stuff can cope with things being delayed by a few weeks.

Ok, thanks for the tip.

I guess gardening is like many other things .. some do it for a
living (agriculture?) others do it for fun (and where sometimes it
seems money is no object). Others do it to try win prizes and others
(like me) dabble (stumbled into it [1]) and are happy to give anything
a try as long as there is a fairly high likely hood of some useable
results!

So far I think runners epitomize that for me. Anything that needs more
outlay / effort and I might as well buy it from the grocer in the
market?

All the best ..

T i m

[1] My gardener mate gave me the runner bean plants, the black
material and a pack of canes. ;-)

T i m writes
On Sun, 27 May 2007 23:47:05 +0100, K wrote:


Ok. But am I too late to start some Broad beans now K, or can I get
them ready to put out (as I have via my mate and the runners)?

It's a bit on the late side - I don't know if others have sown them that
late? Some varieties can be sown in the autumn to overwinter and produce
an earlier crop. It's reckoned that planting either very late or very
early avoids blackfly, also pinching out the tips (which can be boiled
and eaten) once the plant is tall enough.

Do they
climb up canes like runners?

No, they're free-standing. Different genus. Runners and French are
Pahseolus, Broad are Vicia faba - which puts them in same genus a the
vetches most (all?) of which *are* climbing ;-)

Climbing French beans are worth it, if you like them - they're so
expensive to buy and usually seem to have been flown in from Kenya.

Ok. I had some dwarf beans as well last year but (not surprisingly) I
didn't get that many (or much should I say, as far as a meal goes
anyway).

Climbing crop more heavily, and seem to do better than runners if it's a
hot dry year. I like the round podded varieties like Blue Lake

If you get on with them you can have all sorts of fun with yellow and
purple podded ones too.


I grow lots of fruit - it's more forgiving than veg.

Is there any fruit you could grow in a border like strip do you think
please K?

If it's a wide border, rhubarb.
Raspberries - though they sucker. Blackberry hybrids (loganberries,
tayberries, boysenberries etc) - just need the fruiting stems cut out in
autumn and the new stems tying in. They're very vigorous, though. A
couple of apples (you need two for pollination) trained in a fan shape
so they don't take up much space back to front. Gooseberry. Strawberries
(beware of slugs and birds). Alpine strawberries - much smaller, more
intensely flavoured. If they like your soil they will spread like weeds,
so you can let them carpet the whole border and just remove them where
you want to plant something else. Fig in a buried container. Grapevine
trained along the fence if you're warm enough.

If you're not expecting to be in that place for more than a few years,
I'd go for one of the blackberry hybrids and the alpine strawberries -
you'll get a pretty quick return (cropping the year after planting). And
you could take the fig with you - but figs don't give a vast amount of
fruit compared with the space they take up.


I guess gardening is like many other things .. some do it for a
living (agriculture?) others do it for fun (and where sometimes it
seems money is no object). Others do it to try win prizes and others
(like me) dabble (stumbled into it [1]) and are happy to give anything
a try as long as there is a fairly high likely hood of some useable
results!

So far I think runners epitomize that for me. Anything that needs more
outlay / effort and I might as well buy it from the grocer in the
market?

Some things are worth it for the taste of freshly picked. Strawberries,
broad beans, radishes, baby carrots for example.

Some things are worth the effort if you can't buy them commercially - eg
different varieties of apples, some varieties of veg which are noted for
their taste rather than their yield, rarer veg like salsify.

Remember you'll always have years when things don't do very well. Don't
let it put you off. I failed with aubergine last year - couldn't get the
plants going early enough.
--
Kay

On Mon, 28 May 2007 10:06:46 +0100, K wrote:

T i m writes
On Sun, 27 May 2007 23:47:05 +0100, K wrote:


Ok. But am I too late to start some Broad beans now K, or can I get
them ready to put out (as I have via my mate and the runners)?

Firstly thank for such a detailed and informative reply K ;-)

It's a bit on the late side - I don't know if others have sown them that
late? Some varieties can be sown in the autumn to overwinter and produce
an earlier crop. It's reckoned that planting either very late or very
early avoids blackfly, also pinching out the tips (which can be boiled
and eaten) once the plant is tall enough.

Ok.

Do they
climb up canes like runners?

No, they're free-standing. Different genus. Runners and French are
Pahseolus, Broad are Vicia faba - which puts them in same genus a the
vetches most (all?) of which *are* climbing ;-)

Technical stuff ..

Climbing French beans are worth it, if you like them - they're so
expensive to buy and usually seem to have been flown in from Kenya.

Ok, well I seem to like most beans (inc 'butter' etc) so they might be
good. Do I just look for the seeds online or in a garden centre?

Ok. I had some dwarf beans as well last year but (not surprisingly) I
didn't get that many (or much should I say, as far as a meal goes
anyway).

Climbing crop more heavily, and seem to do better than runners if it's a
hot dry year. I like the round podded varieties like Blue Lake.

Google .. interesting .. once only grown for canning .. ~£1 for 20
I'll look out for them.


If you get on with them you can have all sorts of fun with yellow and
purple podded ones too.

I won't give our daughter the blue ones .. they might make her go
hyper (if they are like smarties etc) weg. The purple ones sound fun
and her favourite colour.


I grow lots of fruit - it's more forgiving than veg.

Is there any fruit you could grow in a border like strip do you think
please K?

If it's a wide border, rhubarb.

Well, at the moment it's about 1m wide with the 18 bamboo bean canes
towards the back about 30cm apart. Over the left half I also have some
extra canes nearer the front but leaning back and joining the others
via a 'cross bar'. Last year the runners were on the back and the toms
and cucumbers on the sloping fronts and the dwarf in the space at the
front right.

I also found / used 3 x 50cm round planters for tripods of runners
with more dwarf beans and some onions (to produce seed that I never
collected ;-( ) in-between.

We rarely have 'pudding' but would have some rhubarb if it was not too
tart and easy to grow?


Raspberries - though they sucker. Blackberry hybrids (loganberries,
tayberries, boysenberries etc) - just need the fruiting stems cut out in
autumn and the new stems tying in. They're very vigorous, though.

That sounds a bit complicated K?

A
couple of apples (you need two for pollination) trained in a fan shape
so they don't take up much space back to front.

Ok, that's a dwarf if they can be eating apples (probably my favourite
fruit).

Gooseberry. Strawberries
(beware of slugs and birds).

Not had either for ages. Not a 'strawberry' (or any berry) person
really if you know what I mean, rather have a big crisp apple ..
(although I dare say berries are good for you etc). I think the last
time I picked blackberries was with my parents when I was a kid (now
50)!

Alpine strawberries - much smaller, more
intensely flavoured. If they like your soil they will spread like weeds,
so you can let them carpet the whole border and just remove them where
you want to plant something else.

Ok, again, if they look after themselves K might be worth a try ..

Fig in a buried container.

Not sure I follow that one .. I bury a pot of some sort in the ground
and grow a fig in there? What does that do please K?

Grapevine
trained along the fence if you're warm enough.

Nth London, fence N/S an I'm on the West side of it.


If you're not expecting to be in that place for more than a few years,
I'd go for one of the blackberry hybrids and the alpine strawberries -
you'll get a pretty quick return (cropping the year after planting). And
you could take the fig with you - but figs don't give a vast amount of
fruit compared with the space they take up.

I have been here 30+ years now and can't see us moving for a while
(elderly parents nearby, Daughter about to go to local college, Wife
about to have a new knee etc).


snip

So far I think runners epitomize that for me. Anything that needs more
outlay / effort and I might as well buy it from the grocer in the
market?

Some things are worth it for the taste of freshly picked. Strawberries,
broad beans, radishes, baby carrots for example.

Ah, now that's were I think I loose out because I'm not sure I can
taste as most others do. The missus 'enjoys' the taste of most veg but
some taste like dirt (like baby corns) or just 'nasty' like broccoli
to me. I will eat a small amount of either 'because it's good for me'
but don't enjoy it unless actually disguised by a strong sauce etc.
'Apparently' broccoli (and similar things) contains a similar chemical
to artificial sweeteners and I can't stand that either. ;-(

Some things are worth the effort if you can't buy them commercially - eg
different varieties of apples, some varieties of veg which are noted for
their taste rather than their yield, rarer veg like salsify.

Well I haven't tried that and would be willing to give anything like
that a go just to see if I can expand my eating choices. Maybe I'll
look for some of that in the green grocers first to see if I like it
before I waste growing space / time.

Remember you'll always have years when things don't do very well. Don't
let it put you off. I failed with aubergine last year - couldn't get the
plants going early enough.

Yeah, I'm ok with that. Like the cucumbers and tomatoes. Cucumbers
taste pretty bland to me so wouldn't bother with them again (only grew
them because someone gave me the plants) and I have a mate with what
were commercial tomato houses [1] (before 'Europe' put him out of
business after 40 years) so 'good' tomatoes can be had by the box if I
want them (but I don't really, so end up giving them all away to
friends / family).

Maybe if we 'had' to be self sufficient I'd learn to appreciate the
taste of all this produce more ....?

All the best and thanks for giving me plenty to think about K!

T i m

[1] The insect squeamish 16yr old came with me to my mates tom houses
and at first wouldn't go in because they were full of bees (he buys
boxes of them to put in the houses) as she was stung by bees a couple
of times when young 'for no reason' etc.

She did venture in and after a few squeaks and ducks she actually got
used to the (big) things flying past her ears. He then gave her some
aphid cards to hang out but forgot to tell her what she was holding
.... (these were black aphid eggs that hatch and eat the white aphids
or sommat?). ;-)