allotments
 

Hello,

I would like to grow my own fruit and veg, so I enquired about
allotments. There are two sites locally both on hills. One has quite a
gradient and the other is less so. Would I be right to choose the
flatter of the two? Does the slope make a different to plants?

Both plots have been neglected and are very overgrown. The chap who
showed me around tried to reassure me that it wasn't as bad as it
looks. He suggested I hire a strimmer to cut back the growth and a
rotavator to dig the soil. Is this a good idea or should I check he
doesn't own the hire shop ;)

I've only ever used an electric strimmer on grass on the lawn before;
never a petrol one and I've never used a rotavator. Are they worth
hiring or picking up second hand?

How big is a rotavator; will it fit in a standard car, else how will I
get it to the allotment?

Thanks.

allotments
 

Following up to Fred wrote:

He suggested I hire a strimmer to cut back the growth and a
rotavator to dig the soil. Is this a good idea or should I check he
doesn't own the hire shop ;)

as you will want to cut grass on a regular basis i would buy a honda
4stroke (good make) brush cutter/strimmer, you can use this to cut
the grass long term. Do wear the protective gear. Nobody likes a dog
turd in the face (well most dont).

Om my site some swear by rotovator and other say useless!

pro: no backbreaking work, you just repeat until the weeds give up.

anti: rotovator cuts couch grass roots into little segments that all
then grow!

BTW which way does the slope run (south facing would be nice)? I would
choose one over the other if it looked less vulnerable to vandalism
(non proximity to estate type housing).
--
Mike
Remove clothing to email

allotments
 

"Fred" wrote
I would like to grow my own fruit and veg, so I enquired about
allotments. There are two sites locally both on hills. One has quite a
gradient and the other is less so. Would I be right to choose the
flatter of the two? Does the slope make a different to plants?

Both plots have been neglected and are very overgrown. The chap who
showed me around tried to reassure me that it wasn't as bad as it
looks. He suggested I hire a strimmer to cut back the growth and a
rotavator to dig the soil. Is this a good idea or should I check he
doesn't own the hire shop ;)

I've only ever used an electric strimmer on grass on the lawn before;
never a petrol one and I've never used a rotavator. Are they worth
hiring or picking up second hand?

How big is a rotavator; will it fit in a standard car, else how will I
get it to the allotment?

The problem with a slope is which direction does it slope. If it's towards
the sun, south, then your ground will heat up quicker in the spring and
plants will get a good start. The down side is that in the summer you might
have to water more. If it has a serious slope you might find a thin poor
soil at the top and a quagmire at the bottom. If it slopes away from the sun
give it a miss.
Yes, strimming is what needs to be done, however the rotovating depends on
what weeds are there. If you rotovate with couch grass or bindweed roots in
the soil you will simply spread it all over. Personally I strimmed mine and
then used Glysophate weedkiller twice to kill all weeds including perennial
ones and then rotovated to get a crop the first year. I then hand dug the
space left every time a crop was harvested so after the first year all of
the plot had been hand dug and any bricks/stones/glass etc had been removed.
Unfortunately Glysophate only works on green leaves so it will not work this
time of the year.
A petrol strimmer is a completely different animal to an electric one,
ensure you wear steel toecap boots, strong trousers, gloves and essential is
a full face mask. Those stones hurt when they fly up into your face and
despite a full mask I have had a stone cut my ear. Make sure nobody else is
anywhere near too, and explain to anyone around that they must keep away.
In my experience second-hand strimmers are normally worn out, rotovators are
often little used so check condition and if possible buy a good make (e.g.
Honda) where spares are available.

Rotovators are big and heavy, few are small enough to fit in a car and few
are light enough to lift. I lift mine in and out of my Defender van but I'm
6ft and have been described as built like a brick ...... :-) As the years
go on I might have to resort to a trailer I can push it onto. If you only
have a car it might be worth considering a trailer anyway, muddy tools can
soon ruin a car's interior no matter how careful you are, I speak from
experience which is why I now have a proper allotment vehicle too.

--
Regards
Bob Hobden
17mls W. of London.UK

allotments
 

On 10/1/08 15:14, in article , "Bob
Hobden" wrote:

snip
Rotovators are big and heavy, few are small enough to fit in a car and few
are light enough to lift. I lift mine in and out of my Defender van but I'm
6ft and have been described as built like a brick ...... :-) As the years
go on I might have to resort to a trailer I can push it onto. If you only
have a car it might be worth considering a trailer anyway, muddy tools can
soon ruin a car's interior no matter how careful you are, I speak from
experience which is why I now have a proper allotment vehicle too.

Excuse me for butting into this to ask a question. A friend of mine would
like to know if it's illegal to sell the produce you have grown on an
allotment. She's American and an admirer of Alan Coren. She read a story
of his about a child who found his parents selling their produce and ratting
on them!
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

allotments
 

"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
On 10/1/08 15:14, in article , "Bob
Hobden" wrote:

snip
Rotovators are big and heavy, few are small enough to fit in a car and
few
are light enough to lift. I lift mine in and out of my Defender van but
I'm
6ft and have been described as built like a brick ...... :-) As the
years
go on I might have to resort to a trailer I can push it onto. If you only
have a car it might be worth considering a trailer anyway, muddy tools
can
soon ruin a car's interior no matter how careful you are, I speak from
experience which is why I now have a proper allotment vehicle too.

Excuse me for butting into this to ask a question. A friend of mine would
like to know if it's illegal to sell the produce you have grown on an
allotment. She's American and an admirer of Alan Coren. She read a story
of his about a child who found his parents selling their produce and
ratting
on them!
--
Sacha


I worked with a chap when I lived in Leicester who had 3 Allotments with a
friend and ran it as a commercial venture.

Mike


--
www.rnshipmates.co.uk for ALL Royal Navy Association matters
www.rneba.org.uk. The Royal Naval Electrical Branch Association.
'THE' Association to find your ex-Greenie mess mates.
www.iowtours.com for all ex-Service Reunions. More being added regularly
"Navy Days" Portsmouth 25th - 27th July 2008. RN Shipmates will be there.

allotments
 

"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
On 10/1/08 15:14, in article , "Bob
Hobden" wrote:

snip
Rotovators are big and heavy, few are small enough to fit in a car and
few
are light enough to lift. I lift mine in and out of my Defender van but
I'm
6ft and have been described as built like a brick ...... :-) As the
years
go on I might have to resort to a trailer I can push it onto. If you only
have a car it might be worth considering a trailer anyway, muddy tools
can
soon ruin a car's interior no matter how careful you are, I speak from
experience which is why I now have a proper allotment vehicle too.

Excuse me for butting into this to ask a question. A friend of mine would
like to know if it's illegal to sell the produce you have grown on an
allotment. She's American and an admirer of Alan Coren. She read a story
of his about a child who found his parents selling their produce and
ratting
on them!
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk

It's not illegal but it may be contrary to your contract with the landlord.
Usually they don't give a monkeys as long as you don't run your allotment as
a business

allotments
 

Following up to Sacha wrote:

A friend of mine would
like to know if it's illegal to sell the produce you have grown on an
allotment.

IIRC corretly i can sell a limited amount of stuff (gluts i suppose),
it probably varies between councils, the trend is away from
limitations as its less of a facility for the poor to grow food and
more of a keep fit and eat a healthy 5 a day diet.

I just read my tenancy conditions, nothing about selling stuff.

That restaurant that sources only within the M25 was looking at
allotments for sources!
--
Mike
Remove clothing to email

allotments
 

On 10/1/08 15:38, in article ,
"Robert (Plymouth)" remove my other
hobby to reply wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
On 10/1/08 15:14, in article , "Bob
Hobden" wrote:

snip
Rotovators are big and heavy, few are small enough to fit in a car and
few
are light enough to lift. I lift mine in and out of my Defender van but
I'm
6ft and have been described as built like a brick ...... :-) As the
years
go on I might have to resort to a trailer I can push it onto. If you only
have a car it might be worth considering a trailer anyway, muddy tools
can
soon ruin a car's interior no matter how careful you are, I speak from
experience which is why I now have a proper allotment vehicle too.

Excuse me for butting into this to ask a question. A friend of mine would
like to know if it's illegal to sell the produce you have grown on an
allotment. She's American and an admirer of Alan Coren. She read a story
of his about a child who found his parents selling their produce and
ratting
on them!
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk

It's not illegal but it may be contrary to your contract with the landlord.
Usually they don't give a monkeys as long as you don't run your allotment as
a business


Thanks Robert. That explains it - different rules and regs in different
places.

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

allotments
 

"Sacha" wrote after...
"Bob Hobden" replied

snip
Rotovators are big and heavy, few are small enough to fit in a car and
few
are light enough to lift. I lift mine in and out of my Defender van but
I'm
6ft and have been described as built like a brick ...... :-) As the
years
go on I might have to resort to a trailer I can push it onto. If you only
have a car it might be worth considering a trailer anyway, muddy tools
can
soon ruin a car's interior no matter how careful you are, I speak from
experience which is why I now have a proper allotment vehicle too.

Excuse me for butting into this to ask a question. A friend of mine would
like to know if it's illegal to sell the produce you have grown on an
allotment. She's American and an admirer of Alan Coren. She read a story
of his about a child who found his parents selling their produce and
ratting
on them!

Depends on the local Council, ours allows you to sell your excess produce
and a friend of mine does just that to fund his seed purchase but they are
strict about plots not being used for commercial gain and have thrown people
off sites when they have found out they used the plots for growing plants
for their garden design firm. Ours do check plots out during the year to see
what's being grown and how well the plots are tended.

--
Regards
Bob Hobden
17mls W. of London.UK

allotments
 

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 15:14:58 -0000, "Bob Hobden"
wrote:

Personally I strimmed mine and
then used Glysophate weedkiller twice to kill all weeds including perennial
ones

Thanks. I'll check which way south is.

I don't know anything about weed killer. Is this one safe to use in
soil that you want to grow fruit and veg. ?

allotments
 

"Fred" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I would like to grow my own fruit and veg, so I enquired about
allotments. There are two sites locally both on hills. One has quite a
gradient and the other is less so. Would I be right to choose the
flatter of the two? Does the slope make a different to plants?


You're not in Disley by any chance Fred? My sister has a plot there and it's
at 45deg! She's using raised beds to terrace it to make it a bit flatter. It
would drain something rotten in prolonged dry periods, but this is unlikely
to be an issue in Disley, known locally as Drizzly Disley. :-))

Steve

allotments
 

"Fred" wrote after...
"Bob Hobden" replied
Personally I strimmed mine and
then used Glysophate weedkiller twice to kill all weeds including
perennial
ones

Thanks. I'll check which way south is.

I don't know anything about weed killer. Is this one safe to use in
soil that you want to grow fruit and veg. ?

Supposed to be, yes. I would not use it again on my present plot but it does
do a good job if starting from a wild patch and if I had to start another
new allotment from such a state I would certainly use it again. Couch grass
is one thing it eliminates that is very difficult to remove any other way.

--
Regards
Bob Hobden
17mls W. of London.UK

allotments
 

On 10 Jan, 18:18, Fred wrote:
Thanks. I'll check which way south is.

Indeed - and if you are planning fruit trees, think of their eventual
height (and therefore root diameter) so that they don't cast a long
shadow on your crops and don't take most of your soil allocated to
your vegs. Also it depends what your crops are. I grow fruit bushes in
partial shade and find they crop much better, are sweeter and firmer
and last longer. Same for the strawbs and leaf vegs. I'm sure you've
made a plan on paper. Checking your soil would be an idea too so that
you start on a good footing. Spending time observing the plot, for
wind and sun paterns is a great start. The weeds also will indicates
the type of soil you have. The slope is often an advantage for fruit
trees, as described by Bob - the worry there would be frost pockets
and wind breaks. You must find your orientations before organising
your planting if you're on a slope even a slight one.

I don't know anything about weed killer. Is this one safe to use in
soil that you want to grow fruit and veg. ?

I am absolutely against this. I would also check with your allotment
committee and your plot neighbours if this is allowed and if they
don't mind. (I'd also add that if you are planning to sell your
vegetables as asked previously, you need to check your council, as
that is not allowed unless specified otherwise, and get a licence if
your allotment is not certified organic by the FSC, because food stuff
might be contaminated with chemicals and metals etc.). We have 120
plots and we are all organic. We don't sell our surplus but share it,
which is much nicer.

I would also not use a rotovator for the reason given by Mike. I've
successfully cleared many plots for years using elbow grease. It has
brought me closer to the ground, to the soil and in this way I've
found lots of information about the soil I'm about to work with. I
don't think the local Robin will come next to your petrol smoke
chucking rotovator to help itself to the bugs you've unearthed of it.
It is perhaps a slower process but in the end it really pays up. Isn't
this what gardening is all about after all? Finally, your plot must
be at its maximum lenght of 10 rods!? Therefore there's very little
need to go to the expense of using petrol machinery.

allotments
 

In article , Bob Hobden
writes

Couch grass
is one thing it eliminates that is very difficult to remove any other way.

Not forgetting ground elder which is also horrendous to clear and
easily spread.
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

allotments
 

allotments
 

"Jeff Layman" wrote
Does any council insist on chemical-free gardening for an allotment
holder? Can an allotment committee insist on it even if the council
doesn't?


Ours uses weedkiller on all unused plots.
It's not a problem and ensures you have clean ground to start with. Anything
else is just a backbreaking fight against perennial weeds which you may not
win. Glysophate is not a pernicious chemical and quickly breaks down on
contact with soil.

--
Regards
Bob Hobden
17mls W. of London.UK

allotments
 

On 11 Jan, 14:23, "Jeff Layman" wrote:
Does any council insist on chemical-free gardening for an allotment holder?

Not that I know of, sadly. It is something many are talking about at
the moment. Also isn't it the whole point of having an allotment so
that we can grow our food stuff free of chemicals?! I know of 3
allotments in Greater Manchester that started from scratch in the last
3 years and which are entirely organic, by general rule, one of which
is from Stockport Council via the work of the WEA.

It's usually easier to do this from the starting point of creating the
plots. You will also find that all 'community plot' within an
allotment are all organic even if the whole allotment is not (which
makes little sense to me). This is on the basis that local school/
organisation/retirement homes/health group etc. are using it.

Can an allotment committee insist on it even if the council doesn't?

Off course! Now, having said that it's only a directive, not a rule,
yet. We have discovered that there's still 2 plots using insecticides
on ours but no weed killers. Any new plot let out is targetted and
given advice with clearing the plot, pampered and given lots of help.
I can't remember anyone trying glyphosate - not on a 10 rods plot. At
one time you could tell who used weed killers, their front row of
flowers didn't interest much wildlife and their leeks where the
biggest ones, but not necessarily the tastiest :o)

allotments
 

wrote:
On 11 Jan, 14:23, "Jeff Layman" wrote:
Does any council insist on chemical-free gardening for an allotment
holder?

Not that I know of, sadly. It is something many are talking about at
the moment. Also isn't it the whole point of having an allotment so
that we can grow our food stuff free of chemicals?!

The reason I asked the question was that I thought your original posting was
misleading (but didn't know for certain), and you have confirmed it. Quote:
"I would also check with your allotment committee and your plot neighbours
if this is allowed and if they don't mind.". Using "If this is allowed"
makes it sound official, which is isn't. You really shouldn't make your
prejudices about chemicals appear to represent official - or even
unofficial - policy. I have absolutely no objection to you believing in
organic cultivation, and following those principles. And as you ask, no, the
point of having an allotment is to grow whatever the holder wants, how he or
she wants (within reason), without affecting the other allotment holders.

It's usually easier to do this from the starting point of creating the
plots. You will also find that all 'community plot' within an
allotment are all organic even if the whole allotment is not (which
makes little sense to me).

I am afraid that an "all organic" allotment makes little sense to me. I
don't have an allotment, and in my garden I use as few chemicals as
possible, but I can't see the point in having whole plants destroyed and
doing nothing about it. Actually, that's not quite true - I give up trying
to grow plants where chemicals have failed to control the pest because they
are ineffective or the pest has grown resistant (eg in this area, anything
which is edible to the lily beetle).

Can an allotment committee insist on it even if the council doesn't?

Off course! Now, having said that it's only a directive, not a rule,
yet.

Long may that be the case.

We have discovered that there's still 2 plots using insecticides
on ours but no weed killers. Any new plot let out is targetted and
given advice with clearing the plot, pampered and given lots of help.

And what if they ignore the advice, and start using insecticides?

I can't remember anyone trying glyphosate - not on a 10 rods plot.

You are obviously very confused about glyphosate. As soon as it hits the
ground, it becomes inactive. It is the bane of organic gardeners because
they can't find anything it does other than what it is supposed to - kill
plants it is sprayed on.

You may want to read the conclusion in this article:
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/actives/glyphosa.htm

I'm referencing that particular article because it's not exactly from a
group too keen on pesticide use, and can't be accused of bias.

At
one time you could tell who used weed killers, their front row of
flowers didn't interest much wildlife and their leeks where the
biggest ones, but not necessarily the tastiest :o)

I can only think that you are just imagining that "their front row of
flowers didn't interest much wildlife". If the glyphosate had hit those
plants there wouldn't have been anything around for the wildlife to take an
interest in, and if it hadn't those plants would have been no different from
any other. Did you do a comparative wildlife survey with flowers in organic
allotment plots? Did _you_ try the leeks? What was their taste like?

--
Jeff
(cut "thetape" to reply)

allotments
 

On 11 Jan, 18:09, "Jeff Layman" wrote:
wrote:
The reason I asked the question was that I thought your original posting was
misleading (but didn't know for certain), and you have confirmed it. Quote:
"I would also check with your allotment committee and your plot neighbours
if this is allowed and if they don't mind.". Using "If this is allowed"
makes it sound official, which is isn't. You really shouldn't make your
prejudices about chemicals appear to represent official - or even
unofficial - policy.

You will find than the majority usually takes the day. In this case,
if by committee there's an agreement, it will become the rule. It's a
bit strong to think my opinions are prejudices. It's what I beleive
in. On a 10 rods plot there's no need for chemical use. Give me a good
reason for this.

I have absolutely no objection to you believing in
organic cultivation, and following those principles. And as you ask, no, the
point of having an allotment is to grow whatever the holder wants, how he or
she wants (within reason), without affecting the other allotment holders.

As Sacha's article in the time points: "There are also concerns with
what is used in growing food. Allotment gardeners tend not to use
chemicals at all and when they do, they at least can control it." And
that's what I meant indeed. It is a choice - but if I can make change
the views of those who do use chemicals, I'll do it in everyway I can
and make our allotments entirely organic, and across the country if I
can do that too!

I am afraid that an "all organic" allotment makes little sense to me. I
don't have an allotment

Well that's perhaps our misunderstanding.

, and in my garden I use as few chemicals as
possible, but I can't see the point in having whole plants destroyed and
doing nothing about it.

Organic gardening is not 'not doing nothing about it'. I suggest you
learn a bit more about it before attempting to convince me that it
doesn't work.

Actually, that's not quite true - I give up trying
to grow plants where chemicals have failed to control the pest because they
are ineffective or the pest has grown resistant (eg in this area, anything
which is edible to the lily beetle).

So you've used something stronger or have you given up eating
vegetables all together?! It's precisely why you should not use
chemicals in the first place. There's a reason why you are failing and
I would, if you give me more information about the crop you have
attempted to grow, show you that you can grow absolutely anything and
control the pests and weeds without using chemicals.

And what if they ignore the advice, and start using insecticides?

It's a shame. But like you, they'll manage to saturate their garden
where it will take a long time to re-establish the ecosystem.

You are obviously very confused about glyphosate. As soon as it hits the
ground, it becomes inactive. It is the bane of organic gardeners because
they can't find anything it does other than what it is supposed to - kill
plants it is sprayed on.

My problem with it is the instant killing of everything without any
understanding of why weeds are there in the first place. Glyphosate
takes with it habitats, without habitats you don't have insects,
without insects you don't have birds - that is my problem Jeff, not a
the fact that it is a chemical per say, but the destruction of
environments which support insects on which your, YOUR food stuff
depends on. You are in effect removing what benefits your garden the
most for the sake of easthetic and nothing else. Easthetic! Now that's
sad, don't you think? You could just pull them up, dry them and
compost them or use them as mulch.

I can only think that you are just imagining that "their front row of
flowers didn't interest much wildlife".

No, they come to admire my rows full of colours and life with
scabious, geums, nettles, aquilegias, echinaceas... as opposed to the
single huge dahlias proped up with canes and strings sandwiches
between two badly pruned rose bushes that they think is the ultimate
in flower growing! But that's a matter of taste perhaps.

If the glyphosate had hit those
plants there wouldn't have been anything around for the wildlife to take an
interest in,

Indeed. You are right. There's nothing there beside two rose bushes
and some dahlias with fancy tags on to keep them upright.

and if it hadn't those plants would have been no different from
any other.

I think allowing a range of plants to grow is a good thing for any
garden. Think about it. If you just nuke everything, you'll take out
the good with the bad. Doing things by hand, and I stress here on an
allotment plot and not acres, is a good thing. By the time you've
finished tackling persistant weeds, it would have benefited another
part of your garden by providing an habitat. That's the cycle that you
need in a garden. That's gardening.

Did you do a comparative wildlife survey with flowers in organic
allotment plots?

Not on allotments but I did one last year on 4 acres of urban land
derelict for 10 years. It was an eye opener.

Did _you_ try the leeks? What was their taste like?

Off course, I'll try anything! And I prefer the smaller ones. The big
ones were not as sweet and one leek was sufficient for one soup in my
house! A range of plants, food crops and a mix of fruit bushes is all
an allotment needs - not rows upon rows of spuds and massive leeks,
which are exactly what those plots have, with two roses and dahlias on
strings. But that the plot holder's choice. Isn't it.

allotments
 

Following up to wrote:

You will find than the majority usually takes the day. In this case,
if by committee there's an agreement, it will become the rule. It's a
bit strong to think my opinions are prejudices. It's what I beleive
in. On a 10 rods plot there's no need for chemical use. Give me a good
reason for this.

on our site you do your own thing.
--
Mike
Remove clothing to email

allotments
 

On 11 Jan, 19:45, Mike.... wrote:
on our site you do your own thing.

It's not always the case. On some lotties you're not allowed to do
fires. On others you can't keep chickens. Now someone somewhere at
some point has decided this. How?

allotments
 

On 11/1/08 19:36, in article
,
" wrote:

On 11 Jan, 18:09, "Jeff Layman" wrote:
wrote:
The reason I asked the question was that I thought your original posting was
misleading (but didn't know for certain), and you have confirmed it. Quote:
"I would also check with your allotment committee and your plot neighbours
if this is allowed and if they don't mind.". Using "If this is allowed"
makes it sound official, which is isn't. You really shouldn't make your
prejudices about chemicals appear to represent official - or even
unofficial - policy.

You will find than the majority usually takes the day. In this case,
if by committee there's an agreement, it will become the rule. It's a
bit strong to think my opinions are prejudices. It's what I beleive
in. On a 10 rods plot there's no need for chemical use. Give me a good
reason for this.

I have absolutely no objection to you believing in
organic cultivation, and following those principles. And as you ask, no, the
point of having an allotment is to grow whatever the holder wants, how he or
she wants (within reason), without affecting the other allotment holders.

As Sacha's article in the time points: "There are also concerns with
what is used in growing food. Allotment gardeners tend not to use
chemicals at all and when they do, they at least can control it." And
that's what I meant indeed. It is a choice - but if I can make change
the views of those who do use chemicals, I'll do it in everyway I can
and make our allotments entirely organic, and across the country if I
can do that too!
snip

Do not use my words to support you, if you please. You are quoting out of
context and it is indeed ironic that if you use me to support you, you must
indeed be desperate to impose your views on others.
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

allotments
 

On 11 Jan, 22:30, Sacha wrote:
Do not use my words to support you, if you please. You are quoting out of
context and it is indeed ironic that if you use me to support you, you must
indeed be desperate to impose your views on others.

Its from the article you've posted on ALLOTMENT GET HIP - THE TIMES. I
took the quote from what the article said which you've posted on that
thread. Off course you didn't read all of it. But that's what it
said ...

Allotments get hip
by Devika Bhat

"It's a great break from a hectic career. I like that it's something
totally different to what you do at work. It's a full task on its own,
tending the soil, and it's very rewarding to see the fruits of your
labour. It's good exercise too, with the digging and weeding. And
taste-wise you can definitely tell the difference."

The social aspect poses another appeal. "We've had a cheese and wine
night at the allotment and we're planning a big meal for our friends,
using the produce," said Miss McGuffie.

Insiders say the trend testifies to the growing desire for healthier
and eco-friendly living. Mr Stokes said: "What we are seeing is that
more people want access to fresh food - not things picked before being
ripe which has travelled 1,300 miles across the world.

"There are also concerns with what is used in growing food. Allotment
gardeners tend not to use chemicals at all and when they do, they at
least can control it."

allotments
 

On 12/1/08 00:40, in article
,
" wrote:

On 11 Jan, 22:30, Sacha wrote:
Do not use my words to support you, if you please. You are quoting out of
context and it is indeed ironic that if you use me to support you, you must
indeed be desperate to impose your views on others.

Its from the article you've posted on ALLOTMENT GET HIP - THE TIMES. I
took the quote from what the article said which you've posted on that
thread. Off course you didn't read all of it. But that's what it
said ...

snip

I repeat, do not use me to support yourself. You are being deceitful in
claiming that an article I posted are *my* words, as if I somehow endorse
your extreme behaviour. I want nothing to do with you and I will expose any
sham of yours that involves me.

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

allotments
 

On 12 Jan, 09:53, Sacha wrote:
I repeat, do not use me to support yourself. *You are being deceitful in
claiming that an article I posted are *my* words,

Good god! That isn't what I wrote and if you think I did or it looked
as if I did, then I apologise.

allotments
 

On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:47:22 -0000, "Bob Hobden"
wrote:


"Jeff Layman" wrote
Does any council insist on chemical-free gardening for an allotment
holder? Can an allotment committee insist on it even if the council
doesn't?


Ours uses weedkiller on all unused plots.
It's not a problem and ensures you have clean ground to start with. Anything
else is just a backbreaking fight against perennial weeds which you may not
win. Glysophate is not a pernicious chemical and quickly breaks down on
contact with soil.


Are there a lot of unused plots?

I've read my council has a waiting list of 400 (on an allotment total
of 600 - which doesn't sound like a lot)
--
http://www.orderonlinepickupinstore.co.uk
Ah fetch it yourself if you can't wait for delivery
http://www.freedeliveryuk.co.uk
Or get it delivered for free

allotments
 

allotments
 

"Mogga" wrote

Are there a lot of unused plots?

I've read my council has a waiting list of 400 (on an allotment total
of 600 - which doesn't sound like a lot)

Not now, our old site was closed down and we have been promised a new
smaller site eventually on part of the land but we moved anyway to another
site that was about half full which has since filled up so only about 3
plots are now vacant. Although rumour has it that they are taken too, just
not turned up to do anything yet.
--
Regards
Bob Hobden

allotments
 

On 12 Jan, 17:23, "Jeff Layman" wrote:
Of course it doesn't work on anything other than small scale (and I am not
fully convinced of that either. *But then again, I am happy to admit that
pouring unlimited chemicals on plants isn't sensible either. *The best way
is a balance between the two, but zealots like you can't see that).

Have you heard of biomimicry or bionics? Now that's on large scale
production and commercial. My local veg/fruit shop supply thousands of
people - all the food stuff is organic.

No, I eat lots of commercially-grown vegetables. *I avoid eating organic
vegetables as much as possible because I believe it would be hypocritical to
eat them

How very very strange. I wonder how many more people feel like you do.
Is it only principals, like you don't want to eat the food zealots
like us eat, or is it a financial reason as well. Because if it's the
former, you've got some cheek to call me prejudiced!

Glyphosate doesn't kill insects. *It kills plants.

Yes, it kills the habitat of the insects and therefore will kill the
insects. It goes hand in hand. Why can't you see this?

And if you can show me the
practical difference of using glyphosate, and you and your mates digging up
a whole plot and removing all the plants in order to clear things such as
couch and ground elder roots, I'd love to hear it.

As I explain, it is not all at once - it's a delicate balance. You
would, by hand, leave habitats lying on the ground, giving chance for
insects to get out and move on. And I do not remove everything - I
leave lots of wild flowers, ragged robin, common melilot, vetch,
willow herb, bugloss etc. Often it is pretty and I know my plot/garden
benefits from it.

This is not what you were saying. *Again, you are twisting the facts to suit
yourself. *You can't compare a row of dahlias and a row of mixed flowers
whether or not each are organic or chemically treated. You must compare like
with like. *But that wouldn't satisfy your prejudice, would it?

The point I am making is the single variety of flowers with all wild
flowers nuked for easthetic reasons. That is the problem I have with
some garden, in this example a front row of flowers with lots of bear
earth, without a single weed, and huge dahlias with nothing else. That
is what chemicals do to a flower bed. I prefer seeing a variety of
flowers. That is *my* preference.

allotments
 

allotments
 

On 14 Jan, 09:14, "Amethyst Deceiver"
wrote:

These days, more people are growing organically, but that's
a trend, not a tradition.

I really can't let you say this Linz. For thousands of years we have
eaten our food grown entirely organically. Chemicals were introduced
in the 50s. Please, think about what you are saying.

allotments
 

wrote in message
...
On 14 Jan, 09:14, "Amethyst Deceiver"
wrote:

These days, more people are growing organically, but that's
a trend, not a tradition.

I really can't let you say this Linz. For thousands of years we have
eaten our food grown entirely organically. Chemicals were introduced
in the 50s. Please, think about what you are saying.


not true, you are parroting a canard oft used by the organic lobby


http://www.pollutionissues.com/Na-Ph/Pesticides.html
The concept of pesticides is not new. Around 1000 B.C.E. Homer referred to
the use of sulfur to fumigate homes and by 900 C.E. the Chinese were using
arsenic to control garden pests. Although major pest outbreaks have
occurred, such as potato blight (Phytopthora infestans), which destroyed
most potato crops in Ireland during the mid-nineteenth century, not until
later that century were pesticides such as arsenic, pyrethrum, lime sulfur,
and mercuric chloride used. Between this period and World War II, inorganic
and biological substances, such as Paris green, lead arsenate, calcium
arsenate, selenium compounds, lime-sulfur, pyrethrum, thiram, mercury,
copper sulfate, derris, and nicotine were used, but the amounts and
frequency of use were limited, and most pest control employed cultural
methods such as rotations, tillage, and manipulation of sowing dates. After
World War II the use of pesticides mushroomed, and there are currently more
than 1,600 pesticides available and about 4.4 million tons used annually, at
a cost of more than $20 billion. The United States accounts for more than 25
percent of this market.

pk

allotments
 

"PK" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...
On 14 Jan, 09:14, "Amethyst Deceiver"
wrote:

These days, more people are growing organically, but that's
a trend, not a tradition.

I really can't let you say this Linz. For thousands of years we have
eaten our food grown entirely organically. Chemicals were introduced
in the 50s. Please, think about what you are saying.


not true, you are parroting a canard oft used by the organic lobby



As I understand it, the "dig for victory" booklet during the war recommended
loads of chemicals.

I'm not taking sides here. I don't use chemicals, it's because I'm too cheap
:-)

Steve

allotments
 

On 14 Jan, 12:22, "shazzbat"
wrote:
As I understand it, the "dig for victory" booklet during the war recommended
loads of chemicals.

Off course. Even the text posted explains this!

I'm not taking sides here. I don't use chemicals, it's because I'm too cheap
:-)

Good. I love cheap people ;o)

allotments
 

allotments
 

On 14 Jan, 16:19, "Amethyst Deceiver"
wrote:

Helene, you can't stop me. I've said it.

yawn

allotments
 

wrote in message
...
On 14 Jan, 16:19, "Amethyst Deceiver"
wrote:

Helene, you can't stop me. I've said it.

yawn


Tired at THIS time of day? What time did you go to bed?

Mike


--
www.rneba.org.uk. The Royal Naval Electrical Branch Association.
'THE' Association to find your ex-Greenie mess mates.
www.iowtours.com for all ex-Service Reunions. More being added regularly

allotments
 

allotments
 

On Jan 14, 6:01*pm, K wrote:


Chemical fertilisers were introduced before the 50s.

Hi Kay. Yes, the triple superphosphate was relaunched after the war,
hence why we think it's when it all started when it fact they had
started experimenting with the acid rocks in the early 1900s. But
beside from blood, bones, fish fertilisers, there weren't any
chemicals before 1889 when ICI started grinding the condiments to make
these chemicals. So yes, I might be wrong - but in all respect there
was no use of chemicals before this. And truthfully I don't care. What
I care now is that we stop using them which we will eventually no
doubt and I will do anything I can to tell people that they don't need
them. I am in a lot of position to do just that and that is what I
do :o)

allotments
 

wrote in message
...
On Jan 14, 6:01 pm, K wrote:


Chemical fertilisers were introduced before the 50s.

So yes, I might be wrong - but in all respect there
was no use of chemicals before this.



Yes you a
http://pubs.caes.uga.edu/caespubs/pubcd/B1121.htm
Historical Developments with Pesticides
Pesticides are not new. Ancient Romans killed insect pests by burning sulfur
and controlled weeds with salt. In the 1600s, ants were con-trolled with
mixtures of honey and arsenic. By the late nineteenth century, U.S. farmers
were using copper acetoarsenite (Paris green), calcium arsenate, nicotine
sulfate and sulfur to control insect pests in field crops, but results were
often unsatisfactory because of the primitive chemistry and application
methods



pk