Le Wed, 29 Jul 2009 20:58:09 +0100, Jeff Layman a écrit :

My French is not very good, but as far as I could tell there is no actual
figure stated for the glyphosate concentration found (in the link you gave
and associated links). There was just a comment that it was found,
apparently contradicting Monsanto's claim of it being 100% biodegradable.
Do you know any link which states the concentration found?

My english is not so good, too...

I can give you a lot of links with a lot of results of analysis.

This one ?
http://www.ineris.fr/eil/documents/R...rticipants.pdf

or
http://www.aquaref.fr/system/files/M...s+les+eaux.pdf

Usually I just lurk on urg because my english is not fluent, but I didn't
imagine that in UK you were not informed that Glyphosate is a poison.

--
Salut la compagnie

Mon Beau Jardin est derrière La Grille Verte
http://www.la-grille-verte.net

Neuneu wrote:
Le Wed, 29 Jul 2009 20:58:09 +0100, Jeff Layman a écrit :

My French is not very good, but as far as I could tell there is no actual
figure stated for the glyphosate concentration found (in the link you
gave and associated links). There was just a comment that it was found,
apparently contradicting Monsanto's claim of it being 100% biodegradable.
Do you know any link which states the concentration found?

My english is not so good, too...

I can give you a lot of links with a lot of results of analysis.

This one ?
http://www.ineris.fr/eil/documents/R...rticipants.pdf

or
http://www.aquaref.fr/system/files/M...s+les+eaux.pdf

Usually I just lurk on urg because my english is not fluent, but I didn't
imagine that in UK you were not informed that Glyphosate is a poison.

I believe that your English is better than my French!

However, as far as I can tell, neither of the references gives the result of
measuring levels of glyphosate in "natural water". They are both papers
confirming that methodology used for measuring glyphosate is valid (eg the
effect of magnesium and calcium ions on the accuracy of measurement). The
first also compares results between laboratories.

There are a number of statements on "Roundup" bottles concerning its safe
use, and there are many more poisonous chemicals than glyphosate in common
use in agriculture.

--
Jeff

Le Thu, 30 Jul 2009 16:46:22 +0100, Jeff Layman a écrit :

However, as far as I can tell, neither of the references gives the result of
measuring levels of glyphosate in "natural water".

Here :

http://seaus.free.fr/spip.php?article27

"Il se retrouve presque systématiquement dans les rivières mais désormais
aussi dans les eaux souterraines, où 20 % des prélèvements l’ont mis en
évidence."

Sorry for non-french readers

You can also find some interest in readind :
http://www.ifen.fr/acces-thematique/...ncontrees.html

knowing that AMPA is the result of degradation (not sure of the word in
english) of glyphosate.

Just have a look at the graph... amazing.
--
Salut la compagnie

Mon Beau Jardin est derrière La Grille Verte
http://www.la-grille-verte.net

Neuneu wrote:
Le Thu, 30 Jul 2009 16:46:22 +0100, Jeff Layman a écrit :

However, as far as I can tell, neither of the references gives the
result of measuring levels of glyphosate in "natural water".

Here :

http://seaus.free.fr/spip.php?article27

"Il se retrouve presque systématiquement dans les rivières mais désormais
aussi dans les eaux souterraines, où 20 % des prélèvements l'ont mis en
évidence."

Sorry for non-french readers

Still no levels stated (as, for example, ng/ml). Even the third paragraph
in "Faune menacée", which states the toxic level to fish, does not give
actual levels found.

You can also find some interest in readind :
http://www.ifen.fr/acces-thematique/...ncontrees.html

knowing that AMPA is the result of degradation (not sure of the word in
english) of glyphosate.

Just have a look at the graph... amazing.

Indeed. Many toxic substances were found. It's not good, but without
actual levels no real conclusions can be drawn. Analytical methods are now
so sensitive that many chemicals can be detected at extraordinarily low
levels - far below what would be considered toxic. Yet, they would appear
in that graph as they had been detected.

--
Jeff

Le Fri, 31 Jul 2009 10:31:46 +0200, Martin a écrit :

So is AMPA harmful or what?

This one is in english...
http://www.i-sis.org.uk/DMPGR.php
--
Salut la compagnie

Mon Beau Jardin est derrière La Grille Verte
http://www.la-grille-verte.net

Le Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:28:09 +0200, Martin a écrit :

On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:22:14 +0200, Neuneu
wrote:

Le Fri, 31 Jul 2009 10:31:46 +0200, Martin a écrit :

So is AMPA harmful or what?

This one is in english...
http://www.i-sis.org.uk/DMPGR.php

"This article was submitted to the USDA on behalf of ISIS" is meaningless
anybody can submit anything to them.

So you will need to read :
Benachour N and Séralini G-E.. Glyphosate formulations Induce Apoptosis
and Necrosis in Human Umbilical, Embryonic, and Placental Cells Chem. Res.
Toxicol.

It's a french study but I guess that with a simple research on Google with
"Benachour + Séralini" you will find a lot of results.
And That only one study out of hundreds.
--
Salut la compagnie

Mon Beau Jardin est derrière La Grille Verte
http://www.la-grille-verte.net

Le Fri, 31 Jul 2009 22:08:35 +0200, Martin a écrit :

On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 20:13:35 +0200, Neuneu
wrote:

Le Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:28:09 +0200, Martin a écrit :

On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:22:14 +0200, Neuneu
wrote:

Le Fri, 31 Jul 2009 10:31:46 +0200, Martin a écrit :

So is AMPA harmful or what?

This one is in english...
http://www.i-sis.org.uk/DMPGR.php

"This article was submitted to the USDA on behalf of ISIS" is meaningless
anybody can submit anything to them.

So you will need to read :
Benachour N and Séralini G-E.. Glyphosate formulations Induce Apoptosis
and Necrosis in Human Umbilical, Embryonic, and Placental Cells Chem. Res.
Toxicol.

It's a french study but I guess that with a simple research on Google with
"Benachour + Séralini" you will find a lot of results.
And That only one study out of hundreds.

You ignored the comment that detergent causes the same chemical and still
haven't answered the question about the concentration found in water samples in
French rivers.

If you feed a kilo of sugar to a rat it kills it, but that doesn't means sugar
is a poison.

I give up.
--
Salut la compagnie

Mon Beau Jardin est derrière La Grille Verte
http://www.la-grille-verte.net

Le Sat, 01 Aug 2009 12:58:31 +0200, Martin a écrit :

I give up.

Good.

Our chidren may die in peace
--
Salut la compagnie

Mon Beau Jardin est derrière La Grille Verte
http://www.la-grille-verte.net

Le Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:28:09 +0200, Martin a écrit :

On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:22:14 +0200, Neuneu
wrote:

Le Fri, 31 Jul 2009 10:31:46 +0200, Martin a écrit :

So is AMPA harmful or what?

This one is in english...
http://www.i-sis.org.uk/DMPGR.php

"This article was submitted to the USDA on behalf of ISIS" is meaningless
anybody can submit anything to them.

So you will need to read :
Benachour N and Séralini G-E.. Glyphosate formulations Induce Apoptosis
and Necrosis in Human Umbilical, Embryonic, and Placental Cells Chem. Res.
Toxicol.

Here :
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/tx800218n

Starts to become "technical" anyway...
--
Salut la compagnie

Mon Beau Jardin est derrière La Grille Verte
http://www.la-grille-verte.net