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Hi im new :-) and fairly new to gardening :-S
'Mike' wrote:
I do not agree that any "putting down" in this group is based on geographical location. Speaking as a fellow northerner that is (:-) No, I have found the putting down is on where you are on the Social Ladder Interesting. Maybe someone can post a venn diagram of which social groups people in the ng are suspected of being in. (and then everyone can beware the knock on the door!) |
Hi im new :-) and fairly new to gardening :-S
wrote in
: 'Mike' wrote: I do not agree that any "putting down" in this group is based on geographical location. Speaking as a fellow northerner that is (:-) No, I have found the putting down is on where you are on the Social Ladder Interesting. Maybe someone can post a venn diagram of which social groups people in the ng are suspected of being in. (and then everyone can beware the knock on the door!) What is a venn diagram? Baz |
Hi im new :-) and fairly new to gardening :-S
"Baz" wrote in message ... wrote in : 'Mike' wrote: I do not agree that any "putting down" in this group is based on geographical location. Speaking as a fellow northerner that is (:-) No, I have found the putting down is on where you are on the Social Ladder Interesting. Maybe someone can post a venn diagram of which social groups people in the ng are suspected of being in. (and then everyone can beware the knock on the door!) What is a venn diagram? Baz and to have to ask 'that' question, ............................. well ;-} Mike -- .................................... Don't take life too seriously, you'll never get out alive .................................... |
Hi im new :-) and fairly new to gardening :-S
"'Mike'" wrote in
: "Baz" wrote in message ... wrote in : 'Mike' wrote: I do not agree that any "putting down" in this group is based on geographical location. Speaking as a fellow northerner that is (:-) No, I have found the putting down is on where you are on the Social Ladder Interesting. Maybe someone can post a venn diagram of which social groups people in the ng are suspected of being in. (and then everyone can beware the knock on the door!) What is a venn diagram? Baz and to have to ask 'that' question, ............................. well ;-} Mike Yes, and we were getting along so well in English too. Baz |
Hi im new :-) and fairly new to gardening :-S
In article ,
Jake wrote: To clear up all the confusion, I offer the following copy and paste from Wikipedia: "Venn diagrams or set diagrams are diagrams that show all hypothetically possible logical relations between a finite collection of sets (aggregation of things). Venn diagrams were conceived around 1880 by John Venn. They are used to teach elementary set theory, as well as illustrate simple set relationships in probability, logic, statistics, linguistics and computer science (see logical connectives)." I think that explains things perfectly and simply and should serve to end all further argument. Ha, ha, very ironic! The first sentence is complete crap. They show the 'inclusion' type relationships only. It's a bad description, anyway. They are the overlapping circles (or other shapes) that are often used to illustrate set membership. The area in circle A but not in B represents the elements that have propert A but not property B, and the area in the overlap represents the ones that have both properties. And so on. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
Hi im new :-) and fairly new to gardening :-S
On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 18:37:33 GMT, Baz wrote:
"'Mike'" wrote in : "Baz" wrote in message ... wrote in : 'Mike' wrote: I do not agree that any "putting down" in this group is based on geographical location. Speaking as a fellow northerner that is (:-) No, I have found the putting down is on where you are on the Social Ladder Interesting. Maybe someone can post a venn diagram of which social groups people in the ng are suspected of being in. (and then everyone can beware the knock on the door!) What is a venn diagram? Baz and to have to ask 'that' question, ............................. well ;-} Mike Yes, and we were getting along so well in English too. Baz Good to see you back after your absence Baz. To clear up all the confusion, I offer the following copy and paste from Wikipedia: "Venn diagrams or set diagrams are diagrams that show all hypothetically possible logical relations between a finite collection of sets (aggregation of things). Venn diagrams were conceived around 1880 by John Venn. They are used to teach elementary set theory, as well as illustrate simple set relationships in probability, logic, statistics, linguistics and computer science (see logical connectives)." I think that explains things perfectly and simply and should serve to end all further argument. (I think Vicky was being tongue in cheek when she posted). I will now wait for someone to explain the explanation to me (and no doubt someone else will be able to explain the explanation of the explanation). Meanwhile, I'm going off-toipic to calculate how many shopping days are left until Christmas. Cheers Jake |
Hi im new :-) and fairly new to gardening :-S
"floydie-pink" wrote in message ... Hi i do indeed have a coal shed, suppose i could be seen as common, have terrible spelling (and my spell check has gone somewere i dont know how to get it back????). And i am a she. Hahaha Am i mad enough to join the madness?? -- floydie-pink The "pink" is surely a clue but neither I nor anyone else picked it up :-) Bill |
Hi im new :-) and fairly new to gardening :-S
"Baz" wrote in message ... wrote in : 'Mike' wrote: I do not agree that any "putting down" in this group is based on geographical location. Speaking as a fellow northerner that is (:-) No, I have found the putting down is on where you are on the Social Ladder Interesting. Maybe someone can post a venn diagram of which social groups people in the ng are suspected of being in. (and then everyone can beware the knock on the door!) What is a venn diagram? Baz Those of us of a certain age wold not have come across these mystical designs. But then I remember "times tables" :-) Bill |
Hi im new :-) and fairly new to gardening :-S
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Hi im new :-) and fairly new to gardening :-S
On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 21:03:05 -0000, "Bill Grey"
wrote: "floydie-pink" wrote in message ... Hi i do indeed have a coal shed, suppose i could be seen as common, have terrible spelling (and my spell check has gone somewere i dont know how to get it back????). And i am a she. Hahaha Am i mad enough to join the madness?? -- floydie-pink The "pink" is surely a clue but neither I nor anyone else picked it up :-) Bill Some of us merely assumed a fellow Pink Floyd enthusiast and couldn't justify assuming anything more. These days you have to be careful! Before I hit a (brick) wall I'm off to the Dark Side ..... Jake |
Hi im new :-) and fairly new to gardening :-S
In message , Baz
writes wrote in : 'Mike' wrote: I do not agree that any "putting down" in this group is based on geographical location. Speaking as a fellow northerner that is (:-) No, I have found the putting down is on where you are on the Social Ladder Interesting. Maybe someone can post a venn diagram of which social groups people in the ng are suspected of being in. (and then everyone can beware the knock on the door!) What is a venn diagram? Those diagrams, usually of overlapping circles, to illustrate which/who/what is a member of particular sets. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venn_diagram -- Chris French |
Hi im new :-) and fairly new to gardening :-S
On Jan 24, 9:20*pm, Jake wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 21:03:05 -0000, "Bill Grey" wrote: "floydie-pink" wrote in message ... Hi i do indeed have a coal shed, suppose i could be seen as common, have terrible spelling (and my spell check has gone somewere i dont know how to get it back????). And i am a she. Hahaha Am i mad enough to join the madness?? -- floydie-pink The "pink" is surely a clue but neither I nor anyone else picked it up :-) Bill Some of us merely assumed a fellow Pink Floyd enthusiast and couldn't justify assuming anything more. These days you have to be careful! Before I hit a (brick) wall I'm off to the Dark Side ..... Jake- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Last time I came accross this much Bull Shit it was spread over a veg patch waiting to be dug in. |
Hi im new :-) and fairly new to gardening :-S
In article ,
Bill Grey wrote: "Baz" wrote in message .. . What is a venn diagram? Those of us of a certain age wold not have come across these mystical designs. But then I remember "times tables" :-) Well, yes. But it depends more on your level of education than your age - after all, I have my doubts that you completed your schooling before 1880 :-) Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
Atleast im not the only crazed one out there, Pink Floyd that it is ;).
Think of the diagram in the colour chart each of the 3 colours overlap in the center, the center is the colour they all make and so the thing they all have in comon is they are needed to make sed colour. Add a 4th colour and you are left with a center colour and 3 outa colours that putting 2 of the 4 colours together will make. (Have i confused anyone yet? not as dumb as i seam) |
Hi im new :-) and fairly new to gardening :-S
Jake wrote:
"Venn diagrams or set diagrams are diagrams that show all hypothetically possible logical relations between a finite collection of sets (aggregation of things). Venn diagrams were conceived around 1880 by John Venn. They are used to teach elementary set theory, as well as illustrate simple set relationships in probability, logic, statistics, linguistics and computer science (see logical connectives)." I think that explains things perfectly and simply and should serve to end all further argument. (I think Vicky was being tongue in cheek when she posted). :-) I will now wait for someone to explain the explanation to me (and no doubt someone else will be able to explain the explanation of the explanation). It's one of those diagrams that looks like someone has put a bunch of coffee mugs down on a sheet of paper, and all the people go in the circles. So the coffee stain is 'people who are posh' and the tea stain is 'people who own chickens' and the bit where the tea and coffee stains overlap is the posh people who own chickens. And people outside both drink stains are people who aren't posh and don't have chickens. Then you can put a beer bottle down to make another circle that is 'people who microwave their pork pies' and it can overlap the other 2 circles, and you need to move all the people to their correct position again. It's the sort of thing you do at school cos it's sort of fun, but if you need to use it outside of school you're probably in the wrong job! |
Hi im new :-) and fairly new to gardening :-S
Bill Grey wrote:
But then I remember "times tables" :-) My 7 year old came home with homework last week where he had to learn his 2 times table. Which was interesting, because although he knew the maths and the numbers, he had no concept of the whole "no twos are zero, one two is two, etc" phrasing/chanting of it. -- |
Hi im new :-) and fairly new to gardening :-S
"Sacha" wrote in message ... On 2011-01-25 08:57:46 +0000, said: Bill Grey wrote: But then I remember "times tables" :-) My 7 year old came home with homework last week where he had to learn his 2 times table. Which was interesting, because although he knew the maths and the numbers, he had no concept of the whole "no twos are zero, one two is two, etc" phrasing/chanting of it. When I was about 4 or 5 I went to a small school where we used to chant our tables first lesson every morning. I know it's considered the 'wrong way' now (or is it?) but that method certainly made the tables stick in the mind. To this day, I recall my tables easily. -- Sacha I went to a Private School and they were very hot on the 3 x 'R's from a very early age. Later, and as I had no desire to go into the Hotel business like my parents, I went for an interview for an Apprenticeship as a Marine Electrical Engineer During the interview I was asked 'What are your Maths like?' 'Good I suppose', 'What are 7 x 8's?' and before he had finished I flashed '56'. I always remember that because I surprised myself as to just how fast I was able to recall it!!!! Mike -- .................................... Don't take life too seriously, you'll never get out alive .................................... |
Quote:
Draw a circle to represent spring flowers (snowdrops, daffodils, winter flowering cherry, violets etc). Draw another circle, overlapping the first, to represent bulbs. The area which is inside both circles will contain this like snowdrops and daffodils - spring flowering bulbs. The rest of the second circle will have bulbs like leucojum which don't flower in the spring. The rest of the first circle will have violets and other spring flowers which aren't bulbs. The outside will have flowers which are neither spring flowering nor bulbs. Or you could draw two circles, one inside the other, to represent "All cacti are succulents, but not all succulents are cacti". They're useful to help visualise more complicated relationships than I've described, and usually with more than two circles needed. They were university stuff wen I was taught maths, but my children did them in primary school. |
Hi im new :-) and fairly new to gardening :-S
In article ,
Bill Grey wrote: What is a venn diagram? Those of us of a certain age wold not have come across these mystical designs. But then I remember "times tables" :-) Well, yes. But it depends more on your level of education than your age - after all, I have my doubts that you completed your schooling before 1880 :-) It somtimes feels like that :-) I left Grammar School in 1952 and there had been no mention of Venn diagrams at that time. Nor when I left a (dire) public school in 1965. However, I do have a degree in mathematics .... On the matter of multiplication tables, I didn't learn mine until I was well into my teens, and 7x8 was always my bugbear - however, I could work out the answer fast enough that the teachers never realised, so I never got punished for it (sic). 7x8 = 2 x 7x4 or 7x8 = 7x7 + 7. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
Quote:
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Hi im new :-) and fairly new to gardening :-S
wrote in message ... In article , Bill Grey wrote: "Baz" wrote in message . .. What is a venn diagram? Those of us of a certain age wold not have come across these mystical designs. But then I remember "times tables" :-) Well, yes. But it depends more on your level of education than your age - after all, I have my doubts that you completed your schooling before 1880 :-) Regards, Nick Maclaren. It somtimes feels like that :-) I left Grammar School in 1952 and there had been no mention of Venn diagrams at that time. Bill |
Hi im new :-) and fairly new to gardening :-S
wrote in message ... Bill Grey wrote: But then I remember "times tables" :-) My 7 year old came home with homework last week where he had to learn his 2 times table. Which was interesting, because although he knew the maths and the numbers, he had no concept of the whole "no twos are zero, one two is two, etc" phrasing/chanting of it. It is a damned good system and worked well for decades if not longer. Bill |
Hi im new :-) and fairly new to gardening :-S
"Sacha" wrote in message ... On 2011-01-25 08:57:46 +0000, said: Bill Grey wrote: But then I remember "times tables" :-) My 7 year old came home with homework last week where he had to learn his 2 times table. Which was interesting, because although he knew the maths and the numbers, he had no concept of the whole "no twos are zero, one two is two, etc" phrasing/chanting of it. When I was about 4 or 5 I went to a small school where we used to chant our tables first lesson every morning. I know it's considered the 'wrong way' now (or is it?) but that method certainly made the tables stick in the mind. To this day, I recall my tables easily. -- Sacha www.hillhousenursery.com South Devon "If it ain't broke don't fix it" applies I beleive. Why change something for tha sake of change. Bill |
Quote:
My son is doing a maths degree, and although they still have to be able to work things out themselves, the availability of calculation aids means they do not need to acquire such fluency. They can spend more time understanding the principles, and investigating more complicated models. Some of his questions are challenging me! |
Quote:
I'd happily settle for less ability to multiply numbers together in ones head in exchange for greater understanding of what the numbers actually say, and therefore a greater ability to separate scientific argument from opinion and quackery. |
Hi im new :-) and fairly new to gardening :-S
In article ,
Baz wrote: [ Venn diagrams ] It's a bad description, anyway. They are the overlapping circles (or other shapes) that are often used to illustrate set membership. The area in circle A but not in B represents the elements that have propert A but not property B, and the area in the overlap represents the ones that have both properties. And so on. A bit like a Vector, a mathematical model to prove or disprove a theory? Yes and no. They are used to demonstrate properties, rather than prove them. They are more like graphs (in the school sense). Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
Hi im new :-) and fairly new to gardening :-S
Sacha wrote:
My 7 year old came home with homework last week where he had to learn his 2 times table. Which was interesting, because although he knew the maths and the numbers, he had no concept of the whole "no twos are zero, one two is two, etc" phrasing/chanting of it. When I was about 4 or 5 I went to a small school where we used to chant our tables first lesson every morning. I know it's considered the 'wrong way' now (or is it?) but that method certainly made the tables stick in the mind. To this day, I recall my tables easily. There was a huge difference between how I was taught in my first primary school (in merseyside) and the one I went to for 18 months when we moved (in Cambridge). At my first school, we never really /did/ times tables. They taught us more the maths behind it, how to work it out, but there wasn't a real emphasis on maths at all at that school (other than I got some extra lessons by a keen teacher, cos I was actually 'good' at maths) - there was a lot of emphasis on English, specifically on reading and comprehension. At my second school, when I was 10, there was a lot of stuff that I hadn't learnt which was assumed knowledge. It was really quite bewildering. I didn't have the instant recall of times tables, but I knew how to get to them ... so I couldn't do the instant answer to 'what is 6 times 7' (eg - and I still can't now! 6, 7, and 8 all fox me!), but I could work out the answer, and I could expand on that to work out /any/ answer, outside of the 1-10 (or 1-12?) that everyone else could. So I guess what is /really/ needed is a happy medium, where you can use the instant recall to apply to the more general method, if that makes sense. Unfortunately there seems to be only so much one can cram into a little brain at a time! (perhaps I should start playing times table tapes to the boys at night instead of the Gruffalo!) |
Hi im new :-) and fairly new to gardening :-S
'Mike' wrote:
I went to a Private School and they were very hot on the 3 x 'R's from a very early age. Later, and as I had no desire to go into the Hotel business like my parents, I went for an interview for an Apprenticeship as a Marine Electrical Engineer During the interview I was asked 'What are your Maths like?' 'Good I suppose', 'What are 7 x 8's?' and before he had finished I flashed '56'. I always remember that because I surprised myself as to just how fast I was able to recall it!!!! My 8 times table is improving ever since work started allocating our leave in 'days of 8 hours' and a summary of 'how many hours leave you have left'. So I look at my 56 days left to use by end of March and have to work out what that is in days! |
Hi im new :-) and fairly new to gardening :-S
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Hi im new :-) and fairly new to gardening :-S
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Hi im new :-) and fairly new to gardening :-S
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Hi im new :-) and fairly new to gardening :-S
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Hi im new :-) and fairly new to gardening :-S
In article ,
kay wrote: Arguably, knowing ones tables is a lot less important than being able to understand percentages, differentials and probabilities. Often I see articles in the press in which percentages have been translated into fractions which are plain incorrect, hear people mix up "RPI is lower" with "prices are reducing", or see people worry unduly about a "50% increased risk" when the risk itself is so small that the change in behaviour to avoid the risk itself has more ill effects! I'd happily settle for less ability to multiply numbers together in ones head in exchange for greater understanding of what the numbers actually say, and therefore a greater ability to separate scientific argument from opinion and quackery. That is true mathematical wisdom - seriously! Nowadays, someone who has trouble with elementary arithmetic can always carry a calculator - and one is built into many mobile telephones and even watches. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
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Martin wrote:
So I guess what is /really/ needed is a happy medium, where you can use the instant recall to apply to the more general method, if that makes sense. Unfortunately there seems to be only so much one can cram into a little brain at a time! In real life being able to instantly recall a product is better than knowing how to derive it from scratch. I totally disagree. If the 'instant recall' is outside of the small list you have learnt, it's pointless. You need /both/ to be most effective. (perhaps I should start playing times table tapes to the boys at night instead of the Gruffalo!) I learnt mine in the bath. I remember 'completing the square on a generic quadratic from first principles' suddenly clicking whilst I was in the dentist chair having a tooth removed ... |
Hi im new :-) and fairly new to gardening :-S
wrote in message ... Martin wrote: So I guess what is /really/ needed is a happy medium, where you can use the instant recall to apply to the more general method, if that makes sense. Unfortunately there seems to be only so much one can cram into a little brain at a time! In real life being able to instantly recall a product is better than knowing how to derive it from scratch. I totally disagree. If the 'instant recall' is outside of the small list you have learnt, it's pointless. You need /both/ to be most effective. (perhaps I should start playing times table tapes to the boys at night instead of the Gruffalo!) I learnt mine in the bath. I remember 'completing the square on a generic quadratic from first principles' suddenly clicking whilst I was in the dentist chair having a tooth removed ... I wonder if there are any Electronic Engineers reading this who remember the mnemonic for remembering the Resistor Colour Code ;-}} Of course you do, but are toooooooooooooooo polite to post it here ;-) Mike -- .................................... Don't take life too seriously, you'll never get out alive .................................... Mike |
Hi im new :-) and fairly new to gardening :-S
"kay" wrote in message ... 'Sacha[_4_ Wrote: When I was about 4 or 5 I went to a small school where we used to chant our tables first lesson every morning. I know it's considered the 'wrong way' now (or is it?) but that method certainly made the tables stick in the mind. To this day, I recall my tables easily. Arguably, knowing ones tables is a lot less important than being able to understand percentages, differentials and probabilities. Often I see articles in the press in which percentages have been translated into fractions which are plain incorrect, hear people mix up "RPI is lower" with "prices are reducing", or see people worry unduly about a "50% increased risk" when the risk itself is so small that the change in behaviour to avoid the risk itself has more ill effects! I'd happily settle for less ability to multiply numbers together in ones head in exchange for greater understanding of what the numbers actually say, and therefore a greater ability to separate scientific argument from opinion and quackery. -- kay I love it when the press or the like come out with ""And 35% are against .................."" and what does that leave? 65% in favour, but that is bad for the press!!!! Mike -- .................................... Don't take life too seriously, you'll never get out alive .................................... |
Hi im new :-) and fairly new to gardening :-S
wrote in
: I remember 'completing the square on a generic quadratic from first principles' suddenly clicking whilst I was in the dentist chair having a tooth removed ... No doubt it is completed now? I wonder if you would like to share your findings with us. Baz |
Hi im new :-) and fairly new to gardening :-S
"'Mike'" wrote in
: wrote in message ... Martin wrote: So I guess what is /really/ needed is a happy medium, where you can use the instant recall to apply to the more general method, if that makes sense. Unfortunately there seems to be only so much one can cram into a little brain at a time! In real life being able to instantly recall a product is better than knowing how to derive it from scratch. I totally disagree. If the 'instant recall' is outside of the small list you have learnt, it's pointless. You need /both/ to be most effective. (perhaps I should start playing times table tapes to the boys at night instead of the Gruffalo!) I learnt mine in the bath. I remember 'completing the square on a generic quadratic from first principles' suddenly clicking whilst I was in the dentist chair having a tooth removed ... I wonder if there are any Electronic Engineers reading this who remember the mnemonic for remembering the Resistor Colour Code ;-}} Of course you do, but are toooooooooooooooo polite to post it here ;-) Mike Bad Boys Ravish Only Young Girls But Violet Gives Willingly Will that do? |
Hi im new :-) and fairly new to gardening :-S
"Baz" wrote in message ... "'Mike'" wrote in : wrote in message ... Martin wrote: So I guess what is /really/ needed is a happy medium, where you can use the instant recall to apply to the more general method, if that makes sense. Unfortunately there seems to be only so much one can cram into a little brain at a time! In real life being able to instantly recall a product is better than knowing how to derive it from scratch. I totally disagree. If the 'instant recall' is outside of the small list you have learnt, it's pointless. You need /both/ to be most effective. (perhaps I should start playing times table tapes to the boys at night instead of the Gruffalo!) I learnt mine in the bath. I remember 'completing the square on a generic quadratic from first principles' suddenly clicking whilst I was in the dentist chair having a tooth removed ... I wonder if there are any Electronic Engineers reading this who remember the mnemonic for remembering the Resistor Colour Code ;-}} Of course you do, but are toooooooooooooooo polite to post it here ;-) Mike Bad Boys Ravish Only Young Girls But Violet Gives Willingly Will that do? :-)) You are SOOOOOOOOOO polite ;-) Close :-) Mike |
Hi im new :-) and fairly new to gardening :-S
"'Mike'" wrote in
: Bad Boys Ravish Only Young Girls But Violet Gives Willingly Will that do? :-)) You are SOOOOOOOOOO polite ;-) Close :-) Mike Why am I soooooo polite You asked and I have given. Baz |
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