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"Baz" wrote in message ... "'Mike'" wrote in : Bad Boys Ravish Only Young Girls But Violet Gives Willingly Will that do? :-)) You are SOOOOOOOOOO polite ;-) Close :-) Mike Why am I soooooo polite You asked and I have given. Baz 52 years ago yesterday, I started my Radio/Radar Training when I went into the Royal Navy and the mnemonic we learnt, was not quite so polite as yours ;-) and I have heard it time and time again from Radio/Radar Mechs and Telephone Engineers. email me if you want the version I know ;-) Mike -- .................................... Don't take life too seriously, you'll never get out alive .................................... |
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Nor when I left a (dire) public school in 1965. However, I do have a degree in mathematics .... On the matter of multiplication tables, I didn't learn mine until I was well into my teens, and 7x8 was always my bugbear - however, I could work out the answer fast enough that the teachers never realised, so I never got punished for it (sic). 7x8 = 2 x 7x4 or 7x8 = 7x7 + 7. Regards, Nick Maclaren. Many people can tell you straight away that 7x8=56 but have to think about 8x7? It's always this calculation tha springs to mind. Bill |
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wrote in message ... wrote: On the matter of multiplication tables, I didn't learn mine until I was well into my teens, and 7x8 was always my bugbear - however, I could work out the answer fast enough that the teachers never realised, so I never got punished for it (sic). 7x8 = 2 x 7x4 or 7x8 = 7x7 + 7. I think I do the last one, (7x7)+7 Oh dear! :-) Bill |
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"kay" wrote in message ... 'Sacha[_4_ Wrote: When I was about 4 or 5 I went to a small school where we used to chant our tables first lesson every morning. I know it's considered the 'wrong way' now (or is it?) but that method certainly made the tables stick in the mind. To this day, I recall my tables easily. Arguably, knowing ones tables is a lot less important than being able to understand percentages, differentials and probabilities. Often I see articles in the press in which percentages have been translated into fractions which are plain incorrect, hear people mix up "RPI is lower" with "prices are reducing", or see people worry unduly about a "50% increased risk" when the risk itself is so small that the change in behaviour to avoid the risk itself has more ill effects! I'd happily settle for less ability to multiply numbers together in ones head in exchange for greater understanding of what the numbers actually say, and therefore a greater ability to separate scientific argument from opinion and quackery. -- kay But one has to start somewhere! Bll |
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"'Mike'" wrote in message ... I wonder if there are any Electronic Engineers reading this who remember the mnemonic for remembering the Resistor Colour Code ;-}} Mike Or indeed the colours of the rainbow :-) Bill |
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"Bill Grey" wrote in
: "'Mike'" wrote in message ... I wonder if there are any Electronic Engineers reading this who remember the mnemonic for remembering the Resistor Colour Code ;-}} Mike Or indeed the colours of the rainbow :-) Bill Does putting the word "indeed" in every answer mean something? Do you actually know what it means? Baz |
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"Baz" wrote in message ... "Bill Grey" wrote in : "'Mike'" wrote in message ... I wonder if there are any Electronic Engineers reading this who remember the mnemonic for remembering the Resistor Colour Code ;-}} Mike Or indeed the colours of the rainbow :-) Bill Does putting the word "indeed" in every answer mean something? Do you actually know what it means? Baz A bit picky aren't you ? Bill |
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"Baz" wrote in message ... "Bill Grey" wrote in : "'Mike'" wrote in message ... I wonder if there are any Electronic Engineers reading this who remember the mnemonic for remembering the Resistor Colour Code ;-}} Mike Or indeed the colours of the rainbow :-) Bill Does putting the word "indeed" in every answer mean something? Do you actually know what it means? Baz Just to things into perspective, I've replied 14 times in this thread and used the word indeed in only two of those replies, so what's your point ? Please crawl back under your stone. Bill |
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'Mike' wrote:
I love it when the press or the like come out with ""And 35% are against ................."" and what does that leave? 65% in favour, but that is bad for the press!!!! I like* things like '75% fat free' ... meaning 25% fat? Eyww. |
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Baz wrote:
I remember 'completing the square on a generic quadratic from first principles' suddenly clicking whilst I was in the dentist chair having a tooth removed ... No doubt it is completed now? I wonder if you would like to share your findings with us. I'd rather not have another tooth pulled out so I can re-remember it! |
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wrote in message ... Baz wrote: I remember 'completing the square on a generic quadratic from first principles' suddenly clicking whilst I was in the dentist chair having a tooth removed ... No doubt it is completed now? I wonder if you would like to share your findings with us. I'd rather not have another tooth pulled out so I can re-remember it! :-)) I don't remember having a tooth pulled :-) I had the lot out in one go under full aesthetic in hospital years and years and years ago :-)) Mike ;-0 -- .................................... Don't take life too seriously, you'll never get out alive .................................... |
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Martin wrote:
No doubt it is completed now? I wonder if you would like to share your findings with us. I'd rather not have another tooth pulled out so I can re-remember it! How do you do long multiplication and division, with or without having a wisdom tooth pulled? I am just trying to understand. :-) With a pencil and paper, mostly. |
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Martin wrote:
How do you do long multiplication and division, with or without having a wisdom tooth pulled? I am just trying to understand. :-) With a pencil and paper, mostly. Without using 1-9 times tables? I said I didn't have instant recall on them, not that I couldn't do them and didn't use them. This 'discussion' is becoming silly. |
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"'Mike'" wrote in message ... Now Dear, just sit down for a while, glass of wine? :-) .................................................. ............................................ No, Horlicks later. Confusion comes with the Bus Pass ;-)) Mike Not round here - they don't (:-( Pete |
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"kay" wrote in message ...[i] Bill Grey;911046 Wrote: "kay" wrote in message ... I'd happily settle for less ability to multiply numbers together in ones head in exchange for greater understanding of what the numbers actually say, and therefore a greater ability to separate scientific argument from opinion and quackery. But one has to start somewhere! But I think learning times tables by rote up to 12 x 12 is the wrong place to start! -- kay You are entitled to your opinion, I happen to disagree. Best wishes Bill |
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"Bill Grey" wrote in message ...[i] "kay" wrote in message ... Bill Grey;911046 Wrote: "kay" wrote in message ... I'd happily settle for less ability to multiply numbers together in ones head in exchange for greater understanding of what the numbers actually say, and therefore a greater ability to separate scientific argument from opinion and quackery. But one has to start somewhere! But I think learning times tables by rote up to 12 x 12 is the wrong place to start! -- kay You are entitled to your opinion, I happen to disagree. Best wishes Bill Agree with you Bill. Funny that my eldest daughter who learnt the tables by rote passed the 11+ and went on to Uni, but the others had their education buggered about with and didn't. If it aint broke .................. Mike -- .................................... Don't take life too seriously, you'll never get out alive .................................... |
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wrote in
: 'Mike' wrote: I love it when the press or the like come out with ""And 35% are against ................."" and what does that leave? 65% in favour, but that is bad for the press!!!! I like* things like '75% fat free' ... meaning 25% fat? Eyww. To digress, in California you can get egg-free omlettes and fat-free sour cream. I have a container of the latter, but couldn't figure out how to preserve and transport the former. |
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kay wrote in
: I'd happily settle for less ability to multiply numbers together in ones head in exchange for greater understanding of what the numbers actually say, and therefore a greater ability to separate scientific argument from opinion and quackery. Very true. But it would help if more than 20% of primary school teachers knew the answer to "what is one plus two time three". In my highly scientific survey of teachers at schools that my daughter might have gone to 15 years ago: - about 50% were convinced the answer is 9 - about 30% asked where the brackets were, and were stumped when I said "none, just the normal laws of arithmetic" - about 20% got the right answer It would also be nice not to have secondary school teachers tell me that I couldn't possibly have elementary calculus for O-level (and a year early at that, just like everyone else in my state school) |
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"'Mike'" wrote in
: I went to a Private School and they were very hot on the 3 x 'R's from a very early age. Later, and as I had no desire to go into the Hotel business like my parents, I went for an interview for an Apprenticeship as a Marine Electrical Engineer During the interview I was asked 'What are your Maths like?' 'Good I suppose', 'What are 7 x 8's?' and before he had finished I flashed '56'. I always remember that because I surprised myself as to just how fast I was able to recall it!!!! That's arithmetic, not maths. (OK, a small subset of maths) |
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kay wrote in
: Arguably, knowing ones tables is a lot less important than being able to understand percentages, differentials and probabilities. Often I see articles in the press in which percentages have been translated into fractions which are plain incorrect, hear people mix up "RPI is lower" with "prices are reducing", or see people worry unduly about a "50% increased risk" when the risk itself is so small that the change in behaviour to avoid the risk itself has more ill effects! I'd happily settle for less ability to multiply numbers together in ones head in exchange for greater understanding of what the numbers actually say, and therefore a greater ability to separate scientific argument from opinion and quackery. One of my pet peeves is the statements that you can reduce your consumption of X by 900%, where X is fuel or jelly babies or whatever |
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Martin wrote in
: In real life being able to instantly recall a product is better than knowing how to derive it from scratch. And much better than either is knowing how and when to use/apply it, and to use the right tool to get the correct answer. |
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In article ,
Martin wrote: On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 22:57:05 +0000, Sacha wrote: On 2011-01-26 16:40:08 +0000, kay said: But I think learning times tables by rote up to 12 x 12 is the wrong place to start! Worked and continues to work, for me. The difference between our generation and the young ones, is that we can do mental arithmetic. Tables are part of the basic tools needed to do this. Not necessarily. I didn't rely on them and still don't. When my elder daughter had trouble with her tables, I taught her the methods I used and said that I didn't give a damn how she got the answer, provided that she got the right one in under a second. She did, and got a first-class engineering degree. There's more than one way to kill a cat. Nick says people can use a calculator, but I have yet to see anybody doing this in a supermarket, for example. Our two kids did arithmetic using a calculator at school. I don't think they even own one nowadays. If you can't learn tables and can't learn the mathematical tricks, then any sane person would buy one. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
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Nick says people can use a calculator, but I have yet to see anybody doing this in a supermarket, for example. Our two kids did arithmetic using a calculator at school. I don't think they even own one nowadays. If you can't learn tables and can't learn the mathematical tricks, then any sane person would buy one. Regards, Nick Maclaren. It's no great encumberance to learn the times table at an early age - it can only help in future years. There maybe more than one way to skin a cat, but it doesn't hurt to have more than one string to your bow. Children at the age that times tables were taught could readily absorb the information, why deny them such a wonderful experience of learning a technique that could serve them well in their future lives. When you know what things mean mathematically, calculators are fine ( they save time, and time is money), but, same as GPS they're ok while the batteries still work. Bill |
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"Tom" wrote in message .253... Martin wrote in : In real life being able to instantly recall a product is better than knowing how to derive it from scratch. And much better than either is knowing how and when to use/apply it, and to use the right tool to get the correct answer. Try solving a quadratic equation using the "formla" method, oh damn! - you've forgotten the formula (shame) Now use the "completing the square" logical method.- no formulae involved. Nice to kow how it really is done. Bill |
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"Martin" wrote in message ... On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 09:22:15 -0000, "Bill Grey" wrote: Nick says people can use a calculator, but I have yet to see anybody doing this in a supermarket, for example. Our two kids did arithmetic using a calculator at school. I don't think they even own one nowadays. If you can't learn tables and can't learn the mathematical tricks, then any sane person would buy one. Regards, Nick Maclaren. It's no great encumberance to learn the times table at an early age - it can only help in future years. There maybe more than one way to skin a cat, but it doesn't hurt to have more than one string to your bow. Children at the age that times tables were taught could readily absorb the information, why deny them such a wonderful experience of learning a technique that could serve them well in their future lives. They can also absorb new languages at the same age. -- Martin Definitely ! Bill |
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On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 09:16:49 +0000, Sacha wrote:
On 2011-01-25 08:55:53 +0000, said: [...] It's one of those diagrams that looks like someone has put a bunch of coffee mugs down on a sheet of paper, and all the people go in the circles. So the coffee stain is 'people who are posh' and the tea stain is 'people who own chickens' and the bit where the tea and coffee stains overlap is the posh people who own chickens. And people outside both drink stains are people who aren't posh and don't have chickens. Then you can put a beer bottle down to make another circle that is 'people who microwave their pork pies' Cheeky! ;-)) I'm in at least 4 circles already - does Dante know about this? That was infernally witty. WIWAL, we called them "Euler circles", which makes me the oldest in the thread so far. [...] -- Mike. |
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Tom wrote:
I like* things like '75% fat free' ... meaning 25% fat? Eyww. To digress, in California you can get egg-free omlettes and fat-free sour cream. I have a container of the latter, but couldn't figure out how to preserve and transport the former. fat free sour cream I could possibly comprehend, but ... /egg/ free omlettes?? My ghast is flabbered. |
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Martin wrote:
To digress, in California you can get egg-free omlettes and fat-free sour cream. I have a container of the latter, but couldn't figure out how to preserve and transport the former. Don't forget non-dairy product cheese on pizzas. I have non-dairy cheese in the cupboard, and I have bought it in the past during Lent. I have no problem with the idea of cheeseless cheese. It has a different texture to 'real' cheese, but the flavour is provided by yeast extract, iirc. But a key point of omlettes is that eggy texture. Tofu has a 'fried egg white' kind of texture. But it's not the same as omlette texture. Hmm, perhaps we should move this over to a food ng instead. |
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Bill Grey wrote:
There maybe more than one way to skin a cat, but it doesn't hurt to have more than one string to your bow. Skinning a cat with a bow seems a cruel and unnecessary approach. |
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'Mike' wrote:
Sprouts were cheaper loose than the packs That is fairly normal for veg, IME. |
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Tom wrote:
But it would help if more than 20% of primary school teachers knew the answer to "what is one plus two time three". My answer would be "do you mean one plus two-times-three, or one-plus-two times three?" Do I win an apple? |
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On 25 Jan 2011 13:04:31 GMT, wrote:
wrote: On the matter of multiplication tables, I didn't learn mine until I was well into my teens, and 7x8 was always my bugbear - however, I could work out the answer fast enough that the teachers never realised, so I never got punished for it (sic). 7x8 = 2 x 7x4 or 7x8 = 7x7 + 7. I think I do the last one, (7x7)+7 I suffer, too. I'm inclined to think an uncertain memory of 7x8 is so widespread that there must be an identifiable cause: perhaps the proximity of 6x9 has a sort of "twister" effect a little like a tongue-twister? -- Mike. |
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Sacha wrote:
Yes, I've always thought it a big mistake that schools wait so long to introduce a foreign language into the curriculum. I started learning French when I was 4 and while no way am I fluent, I speak fairly well for a foreigner. I just don't remember actually learning verbs because we started so young and I was very lucky to have good French teachers at all the schools I went to. The boys' primary school have introduced French, the boys both got Spanish and Urdu (!) sessions when at nursery. |
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"Janet" wrote in message ... In article , says... "'Mike'" wrote in : I went to a Private School and they were very hot on the 3 x 'R's from a very early age. Later, and as I had no desire to go into the Hotel business like my parents, I went for an interview for an Apprenticeship as a Marine Electrical Engineer During the interview I was asked 'What are your Maths like?' 'Good I suppose', 'What are 7 x 8's?' and before he had finished I flashed '56'. I always remember that because I surprised myself as to just how fast I was able to recall it!!!! That's arithmetic, not maths. (OK, a small subset of maths) What do you expect, he's from a school that didn't teach grammar and punctuation either. Janet Mmmmmmmeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeoooooooooooooooooooooooooo wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww Sharp claws ???????????????? Who have you been taking lessons from ;-) ????? god don't i wish I were as perfect as sum of the peeple on this site Mike -- .................................... Don't take life too seriously, you'll never get out alive .................................... |
Quote:
Do you mean "everybody could multiply relatively small numbers together in their heads" or do you mean"everybody had a good understanding of percentages, differentials, risk and the other concepts that are necessary in order to make decisions in everyday life"? |
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This is my last posting on this.
In article , Martin wrote: Tell us about your tricks, Nick? I am sick of supermarket tricks :-) I did. zx8 = 8x7 = 7x(4+4) = 7x7 = 10*7-3*7 and more. Also using factorisation, so 44x75 = 11*(4*25)*3. Make a habit of that sort of thing, and you will soon develop your own collection. Also, using iteration (usually binary chop or interpolation) to do division, square and cube roots etc. Make a habit of such tricks and you will soon develop your own suite. But mental arithmetic is no longer taught. In article , Sacha wrote: It's the learning by rote and repetition wot dunnit, imo. Quite a few people can't do that at all - I never could and, as I say, that was a punishable offence. Then they started asking me what was the 'product' of 7 and 9 and I had no idea if they were adding it, dividing it or multiplying it. Why couldn't it have remained "what's 7 times 9"? (Grump over) ;-) Grin :-) Yes, if you don't know, it's not obvious. It's the result of multiplying them. In article , Mike Lyle wrote: On the matter of multiplication tables, I didn't learn mine until I was well into my teens, and 7x8 was always my bugbear - however, I could work out the answer fast enough that the teachers never realised, so I never got punished for it (sic). 7x8 = 2 x 7x4 or 7x8 = 7x7 + 7. I think I do the last one, (7x7)+7 I suffer, too. I'm inclined to think an uncertain memory of 7x8 is so widespread that there must be an identifiable cause: perhaps the proximity of 6x9 has a sort of "twister" effect a little like a tongue-twister? I don't know the reason, but it does seem to be a widespread blind spot. It would make an interesting research topic in psychology. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
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"kay" wrote in message ... 'Martin[_2_ Wrote: ;911185']On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 16:40:08 +0000, kay wrote: - But I think learning times tables by rote up to 12 x 12 is the wrong place to start!- It worked for my generation and they were taught to kids at an age when they could memorise stuff by rote quickly. - What do you mean by "it worked"? Do you mean "everybody could multiply relatively small numbers together in their heads" or do you mean"everybody had a good understanding of percentages, differentials, risk and the other concepts that are necessary in order to make decisions in everyday life"? -- kay Slow down! slow down, were talkng about children in infant school learning their times tables /NOT/ percentages, differentials etc. That comes later, considerably later. Bill |
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