On Apr 6, 7:48*pm, Malcolm wrote:
In article
,
harry writes





On Apr 6, 3:24*pm, Malcolm wrote:
In article
,
harry writes

On Apr 5, 8:14 pm, Malcolm wrote:
In article
,
harry writes

On Apr 5, 2:26 pm, Pam Moore wrote:
On Mon, 4 Apr 2011 11:43:27 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

The question of how to get rid of this comes up frequently on
Gardeners Question time (Radio).
It amazes me how ignorant these so-called "experts" come up with crap
about mowing and FK what else.

The answer is simple.
Go out and buy "Asulox".
Spray in July (there is little/no apparent effect).
Next year, no bracken grows.

Simples. What's wrong with these dopey pillocks?
It's been out for twenty years to my knowledge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asulox

Have you never heard the word "organic"?
The "dopey pillcks" on GQT to whom you refer try to give organic
solutions to problems.
Given this dodgy chemical you advise and Chris's pulling method, I
know which I'd use, but of course not if I had a hillside of it. Then
I'd call in professionals.

Pam in Bristol

Organic ********. If agriculture was organic the world would be
starving.
Organic foods are for dopey middle class women with nothing else to
worry about.

What a wonderful example of ignorant bigotry.

Get a life. Without herbicides/insecticides most of the world would be
dead.

A lot of the world's wildlife is dead because of herbicides/pesticides,
e.g. over 99% of India's vultures in the last decade.

I expect you want to ban modern medicine and drugs unless they
are organic?

You really do come out with some remarkably silly remarks when someone
contradicts you, don't you?

Get in the real world, nitwit.
The "professionals" would use asulox.

But you were recommending it for amateurs, were you not?

--
Malcolm- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
I don't know why you have suddenly brought up the subject of India

Because you were extolling the benefits of pesticides and I was just
informing you that there are disadvantages, too.

The root of the problem is to do with population. India is over
populated which is why they have to use excessive amounts of nasty
herbicides etc *and the wildlife suffers.

Yes, well, your ignorance shines through yet again. The chemical in
question is a veterinary drug being given to cattle.

Which is what I said inthe first place. *Try to keep up.

No, you didn't say anything like that. as tis is the first of your
messages in this thread that you have mentioned wildlife. You made false
claims about Azulox. You have been taken to task, and have reacted like
a spoilt child using childish names about the people who have corrected
you.

A "professional" is just someone that knows and follows the rules
which are set out on the container.

More nonsense.

There are a myriad of chemicals under my kitchen sink will kill you
quicker then Asulox if not used correctly.

So what?

I merely point out that various nitwits on here are advocating the
rejection of agricultural chemicals whilst particpating in other far
more polluting activities.

No, you reacted to being criticised by calling your critics childish
names. A typical reaction of someone who can't cope with having been
found out to be giving duff, indeed dangerous, advice.

It's called hypocrasy in my book.

What you are suffering from is called ignorant arrogance in mine.

Yes I saw the TV programme too. *Relevance to Asulox? Do we have
vultures here? *Do we leave animal carcasses about in this country?
I think you just move the goal posts when it suits you.

No, I just picked up on your claim that "Without herbicides/insecticides
most of the world would be
dead." which, like your other claims in this thread, exposes your
tendency to make sweeping statements based on ignorance.

--
Malcolm- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well so they would. Huge quantities of dodgy chemicals are used in
third world countries to make agriculturehabitation possible. Some of
their products finds it's way over here too.
Due to population pressures in these places, People are living in
areas that are quite unsuited for habitation.

On Apr 6, 9:24*pm, Sacha wrote:
On 2011-04-06 18:53:00 +0100, harry said:





On Apr 6, 6:41*pm, Janet wrote:
In article e4696b4f-45a3-4641-a2dc-
, says....

A "professional" is just someone that knows and follows the rules
which are set out on the container.

*So, reading the instruction label on your medication bottle and taking
them as directed, makes you a professional .. what.. pharmacologist?
doctor?

* *Janet

A professional patient in the case you mention.

I can use the medicine/herbicide professionally without having a clue
how it's made. *I don't need a degree to recognise the problem
(bracken.)
Exactly what point are you trying to make?

Clearly a stupid anagram. Why do you dream up such drivel?

ANAGRAM? *I'm going to say this here and now. *If you don't know the
difference between an anagram and an analogy, perhaps you are not to be
trusted to read a label correctly and give advice as a result, it seems
to me. * IMO, your advice is potentially dangerous and should be
disregarded or double-checked. *I'm not trying to apportion blame to
you for this but I do think it should sound a warning to anyone reading
your posts which advise people on the use of any substances. It seems
to me that you do not fully comprehend what you read and then pass on
to others as 'advice'. *That is really very dangerous.

--
Sachawww.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ah getting shrill again and resorting to abuse as your agruments are
shown to be quite fallacious?
Why don't you double check it yourself and let us know what you have
found out?
There you are make a start he-
http://www.mfhhelicopters.co.uk/Medi...sulox_FAQ..pdf

On Apr 6, 7:43*pm, Malcolm wrote:
In article
,
harry writes

On Apr 6, 3:24*pm, Malcolm wrote:
In article

No, you reacted to being criticised by calling your critics childish
names. A typical reaction of someone who can't cope with having been
found out to be giving duff, indeed dangerous, advice.

It's called hypocrasy in my book.

What you are suffering from is called ignorant arrogance in mine.

How is it duff/dangerous?

Try reading back through the thread and, at the same time, understanding
what you read, which, I acknowledge, may be difficult for you.

--
Malcolm

Avoiding answering the question again I see.
You are full of BS.

On Apr 6, 7:12*pm, Janet wrote:
In article 695489f4-b2ba-4219-820b-3017aa4e4f33
@v31g2000vbs.googlegroups.com, says...



On Apr 6, 6:41*pm, Janet wrote:
In article e4696b4f-45a3-4641-a2dc-
, says....

A "professional" is just someone that knows and follows the rules
which are set out on the container.

*So, reading the instruction label on your medication bottle and taking
them as directed, makes you a professional .. what.. pharmacologist?
doctor?

* *Janet

A professional patient in the case you mention.

* I thought as much.

* Janet

I see. Once more resorting to abuse when the extent of your drivel
becomes apparent.

On Wed, 6 Apr 2011 harry wrote:

http://www.cancerhelp.org.uk/about-c...ons/does-brack...
ause-cancer

Here are just two extracts from that page:

"There are some studies that have suggested there may be an association
between eating bracken and stomach cancer or cancer of the foodpipe
(oesophagus) but this is not clear."

and

"Studies have shown that bracken spores can cause cancer in mice. This
is a long way from saying they can cause cancer in humans. The mice were
given the spores to eat. And they were exposed to amounts that most of
us are not likely to come into contact with."

Well clearly you never read mine which is about the effects of bracken
on drinking water and statistical evidence of increased rates of
various cancers.

Oh good, my messages are getting out.

Yes, I did read yours. Of course I did.

I'll repeat the gist of it here;-

Lars Holm Rasmussen, of the Royal Veterinary and Agricultural
University in Denmark, has measured extremely high levels of the
chemical, ptaquiloside (PTQ), in water from wells on Danish and
Swedish farms. In some cases the levels were 20,000 times higher than
the suggested tolerable levels for environmental carcinogens.

He believes that high levels of PTQ in water could explain hotspots of
gastric and oesophageal cancer all over the world. In the UK he thinks
that bracken may be responsible for an increased incidence of gastric
cancer during the 1980s and 1990s in Gwynedd in North Wales.

Well, note that this is just one man's opinion. But also note that he
*thinks* that bracken *may* be responsible. That's a long way from
asserting it as fact. And because he "thinks" rather than "has proved"
that bracken may be responsible it doesn't in any way undermine what the
Cancer Help site is saying. In fact that site is possibly quoting Dr.
Rasmussen's theories and then discounting them.

No, there has been no conclusive evidence that bracken causes cancer in
humans.

This is not just one man. The issue has come up on several occasions
from different sources over many years..

Yes, the Cancer Help web site acknowledges this which is why they say
"There are *some studies* that have suggested there may be an
association between eating bracken and stomach cancer or cancer of the
foodpipe (oesophagus) but this is not clear." (Forgive me repeating the
quote but it does help to make my point clearer.) They obviously feel
that there is a flaw in the logic which makes these studies unreliable.

It was of interest to me because until recently we lived on a farm
totally surrounded by bracken and all our water came from a spring.

Well, no doubt you wanted to err on the safe side, having heard of these
studies, but it is quite easy to convert a theory in your own mind to
what becomes a statement of fact when you relay your practices to
others.

I used Asulox for twenty years.
So I suppose that makes me more expert on it's use than anyone here.

An expert in how to administer it, but nothing else! :-)

We all live with the fear of cancer. For some this makes their behaviour
almost hysterical, others are more stoical, and there are all gradations
in between. And I do speak from personal experience as one of my
daughters was diagnosed with thyroid cancer only this last week.
Fortunately her prognosis is good.

David

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK
http://rance.org.uk

On Apr 7, 8:10*am, Malcolm wrote:
In article
,
harry writes

On Apr 6, 7:48*pm, Malcolm wrote:
No, I just picked up on your claim that "Without herbicides/insecticides
most of the world would be
dead." which, like your other claims in this thread, exposes your
tendency to make sweeping statements based on ignorance.

Well so they would. Huge quantities of dodgy chemicals are used in
third world countries to make agriculturehabitation possible. Some of
their products finds it's way over here too.

More wild and substantiated rubbish, thereby exposing your ignorance.
The product concerned, Diclofenac, originated from Ciba-Geigy and was
exported to India, not the other way round.

Due to population pressures in these places, People are living in
areas that are quite unsuited for habitation.

More irrelevant nonsense.

--
Malcolm
So what?
You keep bringing up vetinary medicines. I thought the topic was
Asulox.
Is this a ploy to dodge the issue?

On Apr 7, 9:19*am, David Rance
wrote:
On Wed, 6 Apr 2011 *harry wrote:





http://www.cancerhelp.org.uk/about-c...ons/does-brack...
ause-cancer

Here are just two extracts from that page:

"There are some studies that have suggested there may be an association
between eating bracken and stomach cancer or cancer of the foodpipe
(oesophagus) but this is not clear."

and

"Studies have shown that bracken spores can cause cancer in mice. This
is a long way from saying they can cause cancer in humans. The mice were
given the spores to eat. And they were exposed to amounts that most of
us are not likely to come into contact with."

Well clearly you never read mine which is about the effects of bracken
on drinking water and statistical evidence of increased rates of
various cancers.

Oh good, my messages are getting out.

Yes, I did read yours. Of course I did.

I'll repeat the gist of it here;-

Lars Holm Rasmussen, of the Royal Veterinary and Agricultural
University in Denmark, has measured extremely high levels of the
chemical, ptaquiloside (PTQ), in water from wells on Danish and
Swedish farms. In some cases the levels were 20,000 times higher than
the suggested tolerable levels for environmental carcinogens.

He believes that high levels of PTQ in water could explain hotspots of
gastric and oesophageal cancer all over the world. In the UK he thinks
that bracken may be responsible for an increased incidence of gastric
cancer during the 1980s and 1990s in Gwynedd in North Wales.

Well, note that this is just one man's opinion. But also note that he
*thinks* that bracken *may* be responsible. That's a long way from
asserting it as fact. And because he "thinks" rather than "has proved"
that bracken may be responsible it doesn't in any way undermine what the
Cancer Help site is saying. In fact that site is possibly quoting Dr.
Rasmussen's theories and then discounting them.

No, there has been no conclusive evidence that bracken causes cancer in
humans.

This is not just one man. *The issue has come up on several occasions
from different sources over many years..

Yes, the Cancer Help web site acknowledges this which is why they say
"There are *some studies* that have suggested there may be an
association between eating bracken and stomach cancer or cancer of the
foodpipe *(oesophagus) but this is not clear." (Forgive me repeating the
quote but it does help to make my point clearer.) They obviously feel
that there is a flaw in the logic which makes these studies unreliable.

It was of interest to me because until recently we lived on a farm
totally surrounded by bracken and all our water came from a spring.

Well, no doubt you wanted to err on the safe side, having heard of these
studies, but it is quite easy to convert a theory in your own mind to
what becomes a statement of fact when you relay your practices to
others.

I used Asulox for *twenty years.
So I suppose that makes me more expert on it's use than anyone here.

An expert in how to administer it, but nothing else! :-)

We all live with the fear of cancer. For some this makes their behaviour
almost hysterical, others are more stoical, and there are all gradations
in between. And I do speak from personal experience as one of my
daughters was diagnosed with thyroid cancer only this last week.
Fortunately her prognosis is good.

David

--
David Rance * * * *writing from Caversham, Reading, UKhttp://rance.org.uk- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text
Ah but I have been accused here of administering it dangerously by
some of these shrill female twits.
There was no possibility of removing the bracken it stretched for many
miles beyond our farm. I just kept it out of my place and about ten
feet away from the fence adjacent to the common. The farm had about
20 acres of the stuff when we arrived there.
It was always done as per instructions on the box.
The primary danger is to the person administering it, ie me.

I hope your daughter gets well.

On Apr 7, 8:39*pm, Sacha wrote:
On 2011-04-07 20:12:26 +0100, harry said:





On Apr 7, 9:19 am, David Rance
wrote:
On Wed, 6 Apr 2011 harry wrote:

http://www.cancerhelp.org.uk/about-c...ions/does-brac
k...
ause-cancer

Here are just two extracts from that page:

"There are some studies that have suggested there may be an associa
tion
between eating bracken and stomach cancer or cancer of the foodpipe
(oesophagus) but this is not clear."

and

"Studies have shown that bracken spores can cause cancer in mice. T
his
is a long way from saying they can cause cancer in humans. The mice
*were
given the spores to eat. And they were exposed to amounts that most
*of
us are not likely to come into contact with."

Well clearly you never read mine which is about the effects of bracke
n
on drinking water and statistical evidence of increased rates of
various cancers.

Oh good, my messages are getting out.

Yes, I did read yours. Of course I did.

I'll repeat the gist of it here;-

Lars Holm Rasmussen, of the Royal Veterinary and Agricultural
University in Denmark, has measured extremely high levels of the
chemical, ptaquiloside (PTQ), in water from wells on Danish and
Swedish farms. In some cases the levels were 20,000 times higher than
the suggested tolerable levels for environmental carcinogens.

He believes that high levels of PTQ in water could explain hotspots o
f
gastric and oesophageal cancer all over the world. In the UK he think
s
that bracken may be responsible for an increased incidence of gastric
cancer during the 1980s and 1990s in Gwynedd in North Wales.

Well, note that this is just one man's opinion. But also note that he
*thinks* that bracken *may* be responsible. That's a long way from
asserting it as fact. And because he "thinks" rather than "has proved"
that bracken may be responsible it doesn't in any way undermine what t
he
Cancer Help site is saying. In fact that site is possibly quoting Dr..
Rasmussen's theories and then discounting them.

No, there has been no conclusive evidence that bracken causes cancer i
n
humans.

This is not just one man. The issue has come up on several occasions
from different sources over many years..

Yes, the Cancer Help web site acknowledges this which is why they say
"There are *some studies* that have suggested there may be an
association between eating bracken and stomach cancer or cancer of the
foodpipe (oesophagus) but this is not clear." (Forgive me repeating th
e
quote but it does help to make my point clearer.) They obviously feel
that there is a flaw in the logic which makes these studies unreliable..

It was of interest to me because until recently we lived on a farm
totally surrounded by bracken and all our water came from a spring.

Well, no doubt you wanted to err on the safe side, having heard of these
studies, but it is quite easy to convert a theory in your own mind to
what becomes a statement of fact when you relay your practices to
others.

I used Asulox for twenty years.
So I suppose that makes me more expert on it's use than anyone here.

An expert in how to administer it, but nothing else! :-)

We all live with the fear of cancer. For some this makes their behaviour
almost hysterical, others are more stoical, and there are all gradations
in between. And I do speak from personal experience as one of my
daughters was diagnosed with thyroid cancer only this last week.
Fortunately her prognosis is good.

David

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UKhttp://ranc
e.org.uk- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text
Ah but I have been accused here of administering it dangerously by
some of these shrill female twits.

Many/most of whom not only know a lot more than you but have better
manners, command of English and overall ability to communicate than you
do. *YOU have just lost yourself the support of at least 50% of this
newsgroup, at a guess and perhaps more, given that most of the men here
do not behave like some neanderthal club wielder when women do not hang
on their every word. *Certainly, we see now just how valuable your
contributions are when they descend *immediately* into insults with
regard to both class and gender.
snip
--
Sachawww.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well you have shown your superstitions/predudices about Western
technology that enables us all to enjoy good lives. Also an
inclination to rabbit on about topics you know absolutely nothing
about and to jump to entirely unwarrented conclusions/assumptions.

On 08/04/2011 10:10, Malcolm wrote:

In article
, harry
writes

Well you have shown your superstitions/predudices about Western
technology that enables us all to enjoy good lives. Also an
inclination to rabbit on about topics you know absolutely nothing
about and to jump to entirely unwarrented conclusions/assumptions.

I don't think I've ever come across someone who was so adept at
self-description as you are.


g
What's amazing is the sheer breadth of his ignorance - covers gardening,
diy, cookery, computers, genealogy, alternative energy, politics....
it's seemingly limitless - and all delivered with the same
misplaced conviction....

You just have to google and it's all archived there...

Adrian

"Malcolm" wrote in message
...

In article
, harry
writes

Well you have shown your superstitions/predudices about Western
technology that enables us all to enjoy good lives. Also an
inclination to rabbit on about topics you know absolutely nothing
about and to jump to entirely unwarrented conclusions/assumptions.

I don't think I've ever come across someone who was so adept at
self-description as you are.


Hmmn, that's a surprise :-)

"Malcolm" wrote in message
...

In article
, harry
writes
On Apr 5, 2:26 pm, Pam Moore wrote:
On Mon, 4 Apr 2011 11:43:27 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:
snip

What a wonderful example of ignorant bigotry.

Get a life. Without herbicides/insecticides most of the world would be
dead.

A lot of the world's wildlife is dead because of herbicides/pesticides,
e.g. over 99% of India's vultures in the last decade.


You are of course correct about the unwelcome and initially unforeseen side
effects of many herbicides/pesticides, but the Indian/Pakistani vulture
mortality is not generally believed to be attributable to that, but rather
to liver failure caused by ingestion of diclofenac (an inexpensive
non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug used for veterinary purposes there from
the early 1990s) from some carcasses. The principle's similar, granted.

On 06/04/2011 09:35, David Rance wrote:
On Tue, 5 Apr 2011 harry wrote:

On Apr 5, 2:26 pm, Pam Moore wrote:
On Mon, 4 Apr 2011 11:43:27 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

The question of how to get rid of this comes up frequently on
Gardeners Question time (Radio).
It amazes me how ignorant these so-called "experts" come up with
crap
about mowing and FK what else.

The answer is simple.
Go out and buy "Asulox".
Spray in July (there is little/no apparent effect).
Next year, no bracken grows.

Simples. What's wrong with these dopey pillocks?
It's been out for twenty years to my knowledge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asulox

Have you never heard the word "organic"?
The "dopey pillcks" on GQT to whom you refer try to give organic
solutions to problems.
Given this dodgy chemical you advise and Chris's pulling method, I
know which I'd use, but of course not if I had a hillside of it.
Then
I'd call in professionals.

Organic ********. If agriculture was organic the world would be
starving.
Organic foods are for dopey middle class women with nothing else to
worry about.
Get a life. Without herbicides/insecticides most of the world would be
dead. I expect you want to ban modern medicine and drugs unless they
are organic?
Get in the real world, nitwit.
The "professionals" would use asulox.

I think you got out of bed the wrong side Harry.

Pam in Bristol- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

No, I just have an aborhance of half wits who jump to conclusions,
clearly have no proper education and have brains filledwith tripe that
is completely unsubstantiated.

And you are not one of that number? Since my message of yesterday
doesn't appear to have got through (at least, you didn't reply to my
point - or perhaps I've been kill-filed!), I'll repeat the gist of it he

Read this from the cancer help web site:

http://www.cancerhelp.org.uk/about-c...does-bracken-c
ause-cancer

Here are just two extracts from that page:

"There are some studies that have suggested there may be an association
between eating bracken and stomach cancer or cancer of the foodpipe
(oesophagus) but this is not clear."

and

"Studies have shown that bracken spores can cause cancer in mice. This
is a long way from saying they can cause cancer in humans. The mice were
given the spores to eat. And they were exposed to amounts that most of
us are not likely to come into contact with."

The site you quote (selectively) above is far too reassuring.

Young bracken shoots are actually quite nasty for most ruminants to eat
raw and countries like Japan where it is eaten cooked as a delicacy do
have significantly higher cancer rates in the upper digestive tract. I
have eaten it as "Mountain Greens" in Japan before I knew what it was.

The fact that the association with cancer has not yet been proved
definitively in humans does not mean that it is a good idea to go out
and cook young bracken fronds. A reasonably balanced review of what is
known about the putative active agent ptaquiloside is online at:

http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/motm/ptq/ptq.htm

It definitely causes cancer in rats and various related analogues of the
molecule are under research as anti-cancer and anti-viral agents because
of its ability to damage DNA.

If it was a choice between being overrun with bracken and spraying it
with Asulox I know which I would choose. Asulox LD50 is 5g/kg in rats.

http://msds.chem.ox.ac.uk/AS/asulox.html

Regards,
Martin Brown

On 06/04/2011 09:35, David Rance wrote:
On Tue, 5 Apr 2011 harry wrote:

On Apr 5, 2:26 pm, Pam Moore wrote:
On Mon, 4 Apr 2011 11:43:27 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

The question of how to get rid of this comes up frequently on
Gardeners Question time (Radio).
It amazes me how ignorant these so-called "experts" come up with
crap
about mowing and FK what else.

The answer is simple.
Go out and buy "Asulox".
Spray in July (there is little/no apparent effect).
Next year, no bracken grows.

Simples. What's wrong with these dopey pillocks?
It's been out for twenty years to my knowledge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asulox

Have you never heard the word "organic"?
The "dopey pillcks" on GQT to whom you refer try to give organic
solutions to problems.
Given this dodgy chemical you advise and Chris's pulling method, I
know which I'd use, but of course not if I had a hillside of it.
Then
I'd call in professionals.

Organic ********. If agriculture was organic the world would be
starving.
Organic foods are for dopey middle class women with nothing else to
worry about.
Get a life. Without herbicides/insecticides most of the world would be
dead. I expect you want to ban modern medicine and drugs unless they
are organic?
Get in the real world, nitwit.
The "professionals" would use asulox.

I think you got out of bed the wrong side Harry.

Pam in Bristol- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

No, I just have an aborhance of half wits who jump to conclusions,
clearly have no proper education and have brains filledwith tripe that
is completely unsubstantiated.

And you are not one of that number? Since my message of yesterday
doesn't appear to have got through (at least, you didn't reply to my
point - or perhaps I've been kill-filed!), I'll repeat the gist of it he

Read this from the cancer help web site:

http://www.cancerhelp.org.uk/about-c...does-bracken-c
ause-cancer

Here are just two extracts from that page:

"There are some studies that have suggested there may be an association
between eating bracken and stomach cancer or cancer of the foodpipe
(oesophagus) but this is not clear."

and

"Studies have shown that bracken spores can cause cancer in mice. This
is a long way from saying they can cause cancer in humans. The mice were
given the spores to eat. And they were exposed to amounts that most of
us are not likely to come into contact with."

The site you quote (selectively) above is far too reassuring.

Young bracken shoots are actually quite nasty for most ruminants to eat
raw and countries like Japan where it is eaten cooked as a delicacy do
have significantly higher cancer rates in the upper digestive tract. I
have eaten it as "Mountain Greens" in Japan before I knew what it was.

The fact that the association with cancer has not yet been proved
definitively in humans does not mean that it is a good idea to go out
and cook young bracken fronds. A reasonably balanced review of what is
known about the putative active agent ptaquiloside is online at:

http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/motm/ptq/ptq.htm

It definitely causes cancer in rats and various related analogues of the
molecule are under research as anti-cancer and anti-viral agents because
of its ability to damage DNA.

If it was a choice between being overrun with bracken and spraying it
with Asulox I know which I would choose. Asulox LD50 is 5g/kg in rats.

http://msds.chem.ox.ac.uk/AS/asulox.html

Regards,
Martin Brown

On Fri, 8 Apr 2011 Martin Brown wrote:

Read this from the cancer help web site:

http://www.cancerhelp.org.uk/about-c...does-bracken-c
ause-cancer

Here are just two extracts from that page:

"There are some studies that have suggested there may be an association
between eating bracken and stomach cancer or cancer of the foodpipe
(oesophagus) but this is not clear."

and

"Studies have shown that bracken spores can cause cancer in mice. This
is a long way from saying they can cause cancer in humans. The mice were
given the spores to eat. And they were exposed to amounts that most of
us are not likely to come into contact with."

The site you quote (selectively) above is far too reassuring.

But I did give the URL so that people, including you, could look it up
for yourself, which you appear to have done. Good.

Young bracken shoots are actually quite nasty for most ruminants to eat
raw and countries like Japan where it is eaten cooked as a delicacy do
have significantly higher cancer rates in the upper digestive tract. I
have eaten it as "Mountain Greens" in Japan before I knew what it was.

The fact that the association with cancer has not yet been proved
definitively in humans does not mean that it is a good idea to go out
and cook young bracken fronds.

Well, that was very far from my mind. I didn't anticipate that folks
here would actually be contemplating eating it. However the best use for
bracken that I have found is to add it to the compost heap, which I have
done, on and off, for some forty years.

If it was a choice between being overrun with bracken and spraying it
with Asulox I know which I would choose. Asulox LD50 is 5g/kg in rats.

With the consequent side-effects of that? Hmmm!

David

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK
http://rance.org.uk

On Fri, 8 Apr 2011 Janet wrote:

If it was a choice between being overrun with bracken and spraying it
with Asulox I know which I would choose. Asulox LD50 is 5g/kg in rats.

http://msds.chem.ox.ac.uk/AS/asulox.html

Few home gardeners face that choice. On a domestic garden scale, it's
perfectly possible to eliminate dense bracken the traditional way without
chemicals. In my personal experience.

I think there are two groups in this discussion. Those who are
horticulturists and have only a little bracken to contend with, and
agriculturists who have acres of the stuff. The trouble is, each is
arguing from their own point of view.

David

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK
http://rance.org.uk