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How bad is bad?
"Styx Lawyer" wrote in message ... In article , says... In article , Sacha writes NS is often touted as a solution and I'm sure it would be a very effective one. But the truth is that the services really don't want to have to train a whole load of young people for two years and then lose them back into civilian life. They don't want to have to train and take care of a load of ungrateful, ill adjusted, uncooperative yobs either. They have serious work to do Surely, during conscripted National Service, that must have been exactly what the services did have to deal with? Even though they had serious work to do. Janet. Correct -- .................................... Don't take life too seriously, you'll never get out alive. .................................... |
How bad is bad?
"Mike Lyle" wrote in message ... On Wed, 10 Aug 2011 20:18:21 +0100, "Bill Grey" wrote: [...] The "do-gooders" have ruined society and we are now reaping the products of their actions. Did you miss the history lessons at school? If you want to catch up, it would be fun to investigate the celebrated London Mob, and various big-city riots of earlier centuries when the do-badders were still in charge as nature intended. Oh, and the street crime: that was pretty fruity, too. -- Mike. Who's talkng about earlier centuries?? I refer the period covered by the last 50 tears or so. No one listened to Mary Whitehouse, yet now we are all paying for innumerable illegitimate children the product of unbridled promiscuity. I'm not changing the subject but illustrating the effect of the relaxation of moral standards. Behaving in a socially aceptable manner starts with youngsters being aware of their place and responsibilities in society. The do-gooders are the ones who relaxed the means of teaching the rules of good behaviour. Bill |
How bad is bad?
On Fri, 12 Aug 2011 11:46:59 +0100, "Bill Grey"
wrote: "Mike Lyle" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 10 Aug 2011 20:18:21 +0100, "Bill Grey" wrote: [...] The "do-gooders" have ruined society and we are now reaping the products of their actions. Did you miss the history lessons at school? If you want to catch up, it would be fun to investigate the celebrated London Mob, and various big-city riots of earlier centuries when the do-badders were still in charge as nature intended. Oh, and the street crime: that was pretty fruity, too. -- Mike. Who's talkng about earlier centuries?? I refer the period covered by the last 50 tears or so. You're the one pointing to _changes_: that would be meaningless if you weren't comparing with what went before. So you _are_ talking about earlier periods, when "do-gooders" weren't in charge. No one listened to Mary Whitehouse, yet now we are all paying for innumerable illegitimate children the product of unbridled promiscuity. I'm not changing the subject but illustrating the effect of the relaxation of moral standards. They do say that a fish rots from the head. Biologically questionable, but a telling metaphor. Behaving in a socially aceptable manner starts with youngsters being aware of their place and responsibilities in society. The do-gooders are the ones who relaxed the means of teaching the rules of good behaviour. It's never quite clear what do-badders mean by "do--gooders"; but I doubt if the expression includes those who use huge publicity budgets and influence to promote alcohol, casual sex, gambling, and acquisitiveness. If I were given to slogan T-shirts, I'd be wearing the one declaring "It's probably more complicated than that..." -- Mike. |
How bad is bad?
In article , Mike Lyle
writes If I were given to slogan T-shirts, I'd be wearing the one declaring "It's probably more complicated than that..." I prefer the tee shirt my daughter bought. (typo added for the protection of the sensitive) 'Feck Google. Ask me!' -- regards andyw |
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In article , Sacha
writes On 2011-08-12 14:23:33 +0100, said: In article , Mike Lyle writes If I were given to slogan T-shirts, I'd be wearing the one declaring "It's probably more complicated than that..." I prefer the tee shirt my daughter bought. (typo added for the protection of the sensitive) 'Feck Google. Ask me!' She's probably not about 4, though. ;-) No - she's just awaiting her A level results atm - but she was 16 when she bought it and there were a few comments from some that first saw it. Personally, I think its a great phrase - shows her independence and self confidence:) That said, for most things I still stick to google. After all, she won't be as convenient an oracle come Septmenber. -- regards andyw |
How bad is bad?
In message , Styx
Lawyer writes In article , says... In article , Sacha writes NS is often touted as a solution and I'm sure it would be a very effective one. But the truth is that the services really don't want to have to train a whole load of young people for two years and then lose them back into civilian life. They don't want to have to train and take care of a load of ungrateful, ill adjusted, uncooperative yobs either. They have serious work to do Surely, during conscripted National Service, that must have been exactly what the services did have to deal with? Even though they had serious work to do. Janet. Most were just anxious to get it over with and get back to normal life, IME. There were graduates and apprentices snatched after deferment, for 4 years in my case. There were also a few "characters" in our billet. One lad was built like a gorilla, and I remember him bringing back several trophies after a drink in the village pub. A weighing machine appeared outside the fat sergeant's billet, carried from outside the chemists' shop, - try lifting one. :-) On another occasion he carried a kerb stone on his shoulder from the other side of the camp, into the billet, and dropped it on someone's bed. It stretched the springs down to touch the floor, and took four of the lads to lift it out and hide it somewhere outside. Then there was the half-rotten railway sleeper he carried in and dropped on the floor in the middle of the room, that made quite a mess and took some removing! Yobbish, yes, but he was never violent, and gave us some laughs until he failed to return to camp after a day's volunteer spud-picking in the fields had stretched to a fortnight. He then had 6 months in the 'glasshouse' to add to his service for AWOL. I got on well with him, because we were both trad jazz fanatics at that time. -- Gordon H Remove "invalid" to reply |
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In message , Janet Tweedy
writes [....] I would find it highly entertaining to go into courts and listen to the criminal putting up a strong case for why he thumped the living daylights out of someone or drove at 120 mph when he was ina 30 mile and hour speed restricted zone. That's what society does, lay down general rules which if obeyed makes life easier for the majority NOT the minority! If he/she had enough money, he/she could engage that slimy lawyer to find some anomaly in the paperwork relating to the case, and would likely walk free. This country has the best justice money can buy. But then I used to read the Telegraph NOT the Guardian :) I'd never have guessed! -- Gordon H Remove "invalid" to reply |
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How bad is bad?
In message , Mike Lyle
writes On Wed, 10 Aug 2011 20:18:21 +0100, "Bill Grey" wrote: [...] The "do-gooders" have ruined society and we are now reaping the products of their actions. Did you miss the history lessons at school? If you want to catch up, it would be fun to investigate the celebrated London Mob, and various big-city riots of earlier centuries when the do-badders were still in charge as nature intended. Oh, and the street crime: that was pretty fruity, too. Those comments sent me to my bookshelves, to find a book written in 1895: "Twentyfive Years of Detective Life" By Jerome Caminada. As I opened it I was delighted to find that it is a signed copy, and belonged to my paternal grandfather. It tells many stories of the "baddies" in Manchester, presumably in the late 19th Century, with line illustrations. I am tempted to open it up and read, perhaps as an alternative to reading about gardening riots. ;-) One hardback copy is advertised at £150, but it doesn't say whether it is signed... Others are cheaper http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&k...&tag=googhydr- 21&index=stripbooks&hvadid=8523354425&ref=pd_sl_6a z03w18f5_b -- Gordon H Remove "invalid" to reply |
How bad is bad?
In message , Styx
Lawyer writes In article , says... The German police didn't use massive violence, they put enough riot police on the streets to prevent demonstrations escalating into mindless violence. The German police in the 1960s were in one part of one city; controlling crowds who were NOT in constant close communication by Blackberry/mobile phones etc. There is little chance of making a show of "overwhelming force" when the locus of trouble can shift at the speed of a twitter message... much faster than police can move. Janet Especially when the Manchester Police are wearing 17 year old gear which weighs a ton, and gives less protection than the equipment which is currently ready for dispatch to the Met. -- Gordon H Remove "invalid" to reply |
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In message , 'Mike'
writes Gordon have you been involved with the Prison Service, Prisoners and their sentence? No? Prison is NO deterrent. I KNOW. Mike Yes, one of my daughters was (briefly) married to a young man who was a wild man, ie- I went to watch him play soccer on a pitch not far from where we lived. As I arrived he was having his name taken for hitting a spectator, who lost quite a few teeth. At the time of the Toxteth riots he was out drinking with mates and on the way home smashed a shop window and nicked a stereo system. He was caught and was given 3 months in Strangeways. I didn't know about this until they were married, but I tackled him about it. He said "I got out after two months due to good behaviour, and I will make damn sure I never go back! I thought I was hard until I met the two guys I had to share a cell with"... After he got them into debt she ditched him, but he stayed out of trouble after that... -- Gordon H Remove "invalid" to reply |
How bad is bad?
In message , Janet Tweedy
writes Not to be splitting hairs but if it weren't for the select few who accumulated a fair amount of money we wouldn't have some very lovely gardens to visit, they'd all be little cardboard box homes and estates. No Highgrove, Stowe, or Munstead Wood, no Hampton Court, Coton Manor, Cottesbrooke. (To get the thread back to gardening) I didn't even look at the entry fees, we did go to Hampton Court from a Thames cruiser, but that was in the 70s, and I only remember the maze. -- Gordon H Remove "invalid" to reply |
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How bad is bad?
In article ,
Janet wrote: In article , says... In message , Sacha writes Society has *never* been equal, never in history, it's just not in the nature of man or the scheme of things. It has never been more unequal than it is today! I just don't agree. The rich have always been there, but at the other end of the economic spectrum nobody in Britain today, *has to* endure the terrible social conditions Dickens wrote about. The "bottom of the heap" today, have choices, support and advantages that did not exist before the welfare state. That is true, but it is also true that they have more obstacles than at any time in the past 60 years, possibly even than in the past 90 years. One extremely clear example is adult education, where someone who regrets being a school drop-out is severely penalised if they try to correct that - and it is not JUST that they have to first find the money to pay for it privately. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
How bad is bad?
In article , Styx
Lawyer writes Not to be splitting hairs but if it weren't for the select few who accumulated a fair amount of money we wouldn't have some very lovely gardens to visit, they'd all be little cardboard box homes and estates. With cottage gardens. Judging by what the average home owner wants (according to the media) it will be a hot tub, decking, tree ferns some sort of structure oh yes and maybe three plants but 'easy' ones! -- Janet Tweedy Dalmatian Telegraph http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk |
How bad is bad?
In article ,
Janet writes I just don't agree. The rich have always been there, but at the other end of the economic spectrum nobody in Britain today, *has to* endure the terrible social conditions Dickens wrote about. The "bottom of the heap" today, have choices, support and advantages that did not exist before the welfare state. Janet. I suppose they are what some call 'relatively' poor! Perhaps there is also the fact that a proportion those with no jobs are actually unemployable due to attitude, lack of school attendance /education, and too high expectations, -- Janet Tweedy Dalmatian Telegraph http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk |
How bad is bad?
In article , Styx
Lawyer writes Surely, during conscripted National Service, that must have been exactly what the services did have to deal with? Even though they had serious work to do. Janet. I don't think that those 17 year olds would have been quite so obnoxious. -- Janet Tweedy Dalmatian Telegraph http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk |
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In article , Gordon H
writes But then I used to read the Telegraph NOT the Guardian :) I'd never have guessed! :) -- Janet Tweedy Dalmatian Telegraph http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk |
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In article , Styx
Lawyer writes Then you should try it. Anybody can attend the public gallery of courts and I highly recommend it. For a start, the accused does not provide any case or explanations. A respectable middle class lawyer, makes a good living doing that for him. Sorry Janet, that's what i meant by putting up a case. And then there's always Legal Aid so we are probably paying in some way for their defence :) -- Janet Tweedy Dalmatian Telegraph http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk |
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How bad is bad?
On Fri, 12 Aug 2011 21:12:00 +0100, Janet Tweedy wrote:
Surely, during conscripted National Service, that must have been exactly what the services did have to deal with? Even though they had serious work to do. I don't think that those 17 year olds would have been quite so obnoxious. And the Drill Sargent wouldn't have stood for any nonsense. -- Cheers Dave. |
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In article , Sacha
writes The Dalmatian Telegrapgh? :-) -- Janet Tweedy Dalmatian Telegraph The news coverage is a bit spotty... ;-) If it was the Guardian it would be the "Telegrapgh" - The Daily Telegraph knows how to spell :) -- Janet Tweedy Dalmatian Telegraph http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk |
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