The old Football Ground had planning permission applied for but refused
because it was a 'local amenity facility'. Travelers moved in, set up camp
and had to be evicted. Owner ploughs up the surface to prevent them moving
back in, including lots of the land drains.

Area becomes a tip and dumping ground. Local Parish Council buys it with the
intention of returning it to its former use, a football pitch. A public path
runs the length of the South side with a row of 104 Holm Oaks on the other
side of the path. These Holm Oaks have spread their branches over the path
and are well into and down onto the ground. A block TPO is on these Holm
Oaks. Public Paths and TPO Officer visit and give permission to trim back.
Many of the larger pieces of timber are given to the local Wood Turning
Society.

Trees around and now on the pitch in a poor state.

Now it gets complicated so if you think you know all about TPO's read on.

I was a Councilor involved in this case. We knew that the land/trees on the
land were somehow involved with a TPO, so we got the TPO person in. Some of
the trees were in a shocking state and he sprayed orange crosses on those
which we could fell or could lop or trim.

Contractors started. Stopped immediately 'because there is a TPO on the
land'. "No we have had the TPO person in and he has given permission to fell
some" ... 'No, there is a TPO on ALL TREES on the land'

A TPO on a 'piece of land' applies to all of them, saplings as well which
have grown since the TPO was applied.

Outcome? Every tree, EVERY TREE, which was deemed to be savable had to be
marked on a map with dimensions to the boundary and the next tree so there
was no mistake and a new TPO applied for and in place BEFORE the old TPO is
removed. Trees could not be removed until the old TPO had been cancelled, so
at one point, two TPO's were in place

Some of you will of course say that is a load of tosh because it is me
giving you all good advice and what actually happened, but to those willing
to take advice, be warned, that is how it happened to us. A blanket TPO on a
piece of land applies to all trees, saplings as well.

And now? Football Pitch restored and a local team have a lease on it :-))
and it is well used.

Mike

--

....................................

I'm an Angel, honest ! The horns are there just to keep the halo straight.

....................................

On 09/05/2012 09:25, 'Mike' wrote:
(See OP for details)

As something which might affect any of us, your post led me to looking
up the law behind TPOs (or at least a summary of it). For those who
might be interested, see these downloadable documents:
(http://www.communities.gov.uk/docume.../tposguide.pdf)
(http://www.communities.gov.uk/docume...deaddendum.pdf)

After a quick look at the basic information, your tale reflects the
basics quite well. But in a way it is even worse:
"A tree preservation order is an order made by a local planning
authority in respect of trees or woodlands."

That's pretty clear, you would think. Except that neither "tree" nor
"woodland" are defined in the original legislation! But in the helpful
way that our courts clarify things, "... for the purposes of the TPO
legislation, the High Court has held that a 'tree' is anything which
ordinarily one would call a tree." I wonder if that would include a
bonsai? ;-)

And as regards your point concerning saplings, "Neither does the Act
define the term 'woodland'. In the Secretary of State's view, trees
which are planted or grow naturally within the woodland area after the
TPO is made are also protected by the TPO".

The TPO guide in the first link above runs to 100+ pages. I hear it's
going to rain for the next day or two; what else are you going to read?!

--

Jeff

On 09/05/2012 16:58, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 09/05/2012 09:25, 'Mike' wrote:
(See OP for details)

As something which might affect any of us, your post led me to looking
up the law behind TPOs (or at least a summary of it). For those who
might be interested, see these downloadable documents:
(http://www.communities.gov.uk/docume.../tposguide.pdf)

(http://www.communities.gov.uk/docume...deaddendum.pdf)


After a quick look at the basic information, your tale reflects the
basics quite well. But in a way it is even worse:
"A tree preservation order is an order made by a local planning
authority in respect of trees or woodlands."

That's pretty clear, you would think. Except that neither "tree" nor
"woodland" are defined in the original legislation! But in the helpful
way that our courts clarify things, "... for the purposes of the TPO
legislation, the High Court has held that a 'tree' is anything which
ordinarily one would call a tree." I wonder if that would include a
bonsai? ;-)

And as regards your point concerning saplings, "Neither does the Act
define the term 'woodland'. In the Secretary of State's view, trees
which are planted or grow naturally within the woodland area after the
TPO is made are also protected by the TPO".

The TPO guide in the first link above runs to 100+ pages. I hear it's
going to rain for the next day or two; what else are you going to read?!

I have a bee in my bonnet about TPOs. They are very one sided. The water
and electricity companies and councils seem to be generally excluded.
Now trees have a life span the same as everything else, however if a
tree dies, or partly, so that you need to have it removed for safety
reasons, your the owner are expected to replace it. Where is the logic
in that? I have a lovely oak tree at the bottom of my garden, any time
soon the electric peeps are going to deem that it is an obstruction to
the power lines that run above it and require it to be felled. As the
owner I can refuse permission, but, as was clearly pointed out to me
over Elders they felled, they would simply get a court order, for which
no doubt I would be expected to pay. An English man's home may be his
castle, but his trees are not!

--
Residing on low ground in North Staffordshire

"Jeff Layman" wrote ...

, 'Mike' wrote:
(See OP for details)

As something which might affect any of us, your post led me to looking up
the law behind TPOs (or at least a summary of it). For those who might be
interested, see these downloadable documents:
(http://www.communities.gov.uk/docume.../tposguide.pdf)
(http://www.communities.gov.uk/docume...deaddendum.pdf)

After a quick look at the basic information, your tale reflects the basics
quite well. But in a way it is even worse:
"A tree preservation order is an order made by a local planning authority
in respect of trees or woodlands."

That's pretty clear, you would think. Except that neither "tree" nor
"woodland" are defined in the original legislation! But in the helpful way
that our courts clarify things, "... for the purposes of the TPO
legislation, the High Court has held that a 'tree' is anything which
ordinarily one would call a tree." I wonder if that would include a
bonsai? ;-)

And as regards your point concerning saplings, "Neither does the Act define
the term 'woodland'. In the Secretary of State's view, trees which are
planted or grow naturally within the woodland area after the TPO is made
are also protected by the TPO".

The TPO guide in the first link above runs to 100+ pages. I hear it's
going to rain for the next day or two; what else are you going to read?!


It's the law but if it's not enforced it's nothing. Rich man near here
bought an oak copse with total TPOs for peanuts and immediately felled all
the mature old oak trees and sold them, making a large profit, nothing was
done.
He then blackmailed the neighbours to buy the land at a very inflated price.
--
Regards. Bob Hobden.
Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK

"Jeff Layman" wrote in message
...
On 09/05/2012 09:25, 'Mike' wrote:
(See OP for details)

As something which might affect any of us, your post led me to looking up
the law behind TPOs (or at least a summary of it). For those who might be
interested, see these downloadable documents:
(http://www.communities.gov.uk/docume.../tposguide.pdf)
(http://www.communities.gov.uk/docume...deaddendum.pdf)

After a quick look at the basic information, your tale reflects the basics
quite well. But in a way it is even worse:
"A tree preservation order is an order made by a local planning authority
in respect of trees or woodlands."

That's pretty clear, you would think. Except that neither "tree" nor
"woodland" are defined in the original legislation! But in the helpful
way that our courts clarify things, "... for the purposes of the TPO
legislation, the High Court has held that a 'tree' is anything which
ordinarily one would call a tree." I wonder if that would include a
bonsai? ;-)

And as regards your point concerning saplings, "Neither does the Act
define the term 'woodland'. In the Secretary of State's view, trees which
are planted or grow naturally within the woodland area after the TPO is
made are also protected by the TPO".

The TPO guide in the first link above runs to 100+ pages. I hear it's
going to rain for the next day or two; what else are you going to read?!

--

Jeff

and it can get more complicated than that!

Take the Holm Oaks for example. 104 with a TPO on them. On the other side of
a public path. Planted years ago when it was the grounds of a big estate.
Now in the ground of an apartment block, privately owned and managed by a
Management Company which is usually the owners of the apartments. Trees
across the path and onto what is now Parish Council land. "By law, we can
cut off any overhand and return it to the owners". 1st a TPO. 2nd, the other
side of the fence is a public i.e. County Council path. 3rd the trees belong
to those on the other side of the path.

AND, when were looking at the situation and got permission to lop back to
the boundary, one of the owners asked if we were chopping their side back as
well, 'because the leaves and that leave a nasty deposit on the cars. Would
be pleased to see them out of the way'.

I only touched on the problems!

BUT............. Chop down 'what you want' £3000.00 fine. Job done! You
can't put them back!

Mike

--

....................................

I'm an Angel, honest ! The horns are there just to keep the halo straight.

....................................