I am wondering what effect a liberal dose of ground limestone as well as
a load of limestone gravel would have on an acid soil, with an eye to
making it more suitable for grapes.

On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 David Hill wrote:

I am wondering what effect a liberal dose of ground limestone as well
as a load of limestone gravel would have on an acid soil, with an eye
to making it more suitable for grapes.

It would need to be done every year as it would leach away.

David

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK
http://rance.org.uk

On 25/10/2012 20:29, David Rance wrote:
On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 David Hill wrote:

I am wondering what effect a liberal dose of ground limestone as well
as a load of limestone gravel would have on an acid soil, with an eye
to making it more suitable for grapes.

It would need to be done every year as it would leach away.

David


If you just limed the soil I would agree with you, but ground limestone
lasts for several years whilst limestone gravel (or chippings) will stay
in the soil for 30 or more years.
Note.
I am not talking about chalk.

On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 David Hill wrote:

On 25/10/2012 20:29, David Rance wrote:
On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 David Hill wrote:

I am wondering what effect a liberal dose of ground limestone as well
as a load of limestone gravel would have on an acid soil, with an eye
to making it more suitable for grapes.

It would need to be done every year as it would leach away.

David


If you just limed the soil I would agree with you, but ground limestone
lasts for several years whilst limestone gravel (or chippings) will
stay in the soil for 30 or more years.

Ah, I wasn't aware of that.

David

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK
http://rance.org.uk

"David Hill" wrote ...

I am wondering what effect a liberal dose of ground limestone as well as
a load of limestone gravel would have on an acid soil, with an eye to
making it more suitable for grapes.

The roots of Grape vines go deep, very deep, so what is under your topsoil?
--
Regards. Bob Hobden.
Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK

On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 Bob Hobden wrote:

I am wondering what effect a liberal dose of ground limestone as well
as a load of limestone gravel would have on an acid soil, with an eye
making it more suitable for grapes.

The roots of Grape vines go deep, very deep, so what is under your topsoil?

And they go far and wide which is why vines can cope pretty well with
drought.

David

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK
http://rance.org.uk

On 25/10/2012 22:36, Bob Hobden wrote:
"David Hill" wrote ...

I am wondering what effect a liberal dose of ground limestone as well
as a load of limestone gravel would have on an acid soil, with an eye
to making it more suitable for grapes.

The roots of Grape vines go deep, very deep, so what is under your topsoil?


Clay overlying rock, we are on the side of a mountain, but I'm not
certain of the type of rock, but we are on old pasture that never saw lime.

"David Hill" wrote

Bob Hobden wrote:
"David Hill" wrote ...

I am wondering what effect a liberal dose of ground limestone as well
as a load of limestone gravel would have on an acid soil, with an eye
to making it more suitable for grapes.

The roots of Grape vines go deep, very deep, so what is under your
topsoil?


Clay overlying rock, we are on the side of a mountain, but I'm not certain
of the type of rock, but we are on old pasture that never saw lime.


Open this link and click on "Web Browser Maps" then scroll in and out to see
your bedrock.

http://www.bgs.ac.uk/opengeoscience/

--
Regards. Bob Hobden.
Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK

Now it is certainly the case that many fine vineyards are on limestone or chalk - Champagne, Chablis, Jerez, Vouvray - but I think it is far from the case that alkaline soils are necessary. Acidic soils are fine for the appropriate varieties. I believe that academic studies have shown that what matters most for good viticulture for wine is the drainage structure of the soil, not its chemical composition.

When I was visiting the Torres vineyard in Chile, or at least their visitor centre which at one of their old vineyards right on the main Panamericana road, as the oldest commercial plantings often are, they told us about their new special vineyard where they hoped to make their finest wines. They had searched very carefully for just the right place, and ended up choosing somewhere with a slate geology. Now slate usually occurs in places I think of as acidic. So here is one of the world's finest viticulturists deliberately choosing a slate soil. My understanding of many of the finest vineyards on steep river banks in Germany are on acidic soils. Alsace is on granite. There are also famous vineyards in many places on sandy soils, and sand is acidic.

On 10/26/2012 11:23 AM, David Hill wrote:
On 25/10/2012 22:36, Bob Hobden wrote:
"David Hill" wrote ...

I am wondering what effect a liberal dose of ground limestone as well
as a load of limestone gravel would have on an acid soil, with an eye
to making it more suitable for grapes.

The roots of Grape vines go deep, very deep, so what is under your
topsoil?


Clay overlying rock, we are on the side of a mountain, but I'm not
certain of the type of rock, but we are on old pasture that never saw lime.

We were always told to add gypsum, and have done so in the veg patch
(when we were doing veg) to both make the soil less heavy and raise the pH.

Grape vines do indeed go very deep, and wine makers tell me they like to
be stressed a little for the best fruit. In many areas of France there
is little to no top soil. Some vineyards have taken to displaying core
samples, big clear plastic cylinders filled with different layers of
soil, schist, etc. It's fascinating to see how the vines do well under
sometimes really difficult conditions.

This is a US site but it does have some interesting notes on soil
structure (and pH), perhaps it might be worth a look:
http://arcserver2.iagt.org/vll/learnmore.aspx. (In it they say the top
soil is the most important factor though, which is contrary to what I've
been told many times...)

-E