I've often wondered where this advice came from. I can't see that it
would make any difference - once the clematis starts growing it creates
its own shade anyway.

In the "Illustrated History of Gardening" (1884 - 1888) there is no
mention of a need to cover the roots. But the answer may be in
"Cassell's Dictionary of Gardening" (1913). Here it notes "The Clematis
is subject in some gardens to a disease which causes it to die off.
This appears to be caused by an unknown constituent in the soil in these
gardens, but in some where the clematis has previously failed it has
been found that then plants will grow satisfactorily if the lower
portions of the stems are shaded from the sun by other plants. This is
worthy of a trial in gardens where the plant has hitherto been lost".

So to get round clematis wilt (assuming that is what the article is
referring to), one suggestion was to shade the lower part of the plant.
We now, of course, use "maximum shading" by burying the plant much
more deeply than normal!

If that is the explanation for generally shading the roots, it is
interesting how it has become corrupted and expanded to cover (no pun
intended) clematis planting generally.

--

Jeff

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2012-11-20 11:28:05 +0000, Jeff Layman said:

I've often wondered where this advice came from. I can't see that it
would make any difference - once the clematis starts growing it creates
its own shade anyway.

In the "Illustrated History of Gardening" (1884 - 1888) there is no
mention of a need to cover the roots. But the answer may be in
"Cassell's Dictionary of Gardening" (1913). Here it notes "The Clematis
is subject in some gardens to a disease which causes it to die off. This
appears to be caused by an unknown constituent in the soil in these
gardens, but in some where the clematis has previously failed it has been
found that then plants will grow satisfactorily if the lower portions of
the stems are shaded from the sun by other plants. This is worthy of a
trial in gardens where the plant has hitherto been lost".

So to get round clematis wilt (assuming that is what the article is
referring to), one suggestion was to shade the lower part of the plant.
We now, of course, use "maximum shading" by burying the plant much more
deeply than normal!

If that is the explanation for generally shading the roots, it is
interesting how it has become corrupted and expanded to cover (no pun
intended) clematis planting generally.

It certainly is interesting because the perceived wisdom is that they
require a cool root run, asfaik, hence the shading from shrubs or pieces
of stone/slate etc. But according to Ray, a lot of what was once written
in books is simply repeated as Gospel until someone goes "hang on a
minute......why?"!
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/


I agree, oft repeated, never explained so useless information.

Clematis like a moist root run so if they are planted in a sunny hot spot
then yes shading the roots will help. otherwise its not needed, indeed I am
not a fan of stones as they just provide B&B accommodation for snails and
slugs! I much prefer a good mulch.

However with the hybrid clematis they do benefit from deeper planting, this
achieves two things, first the deeper you go the damper the soil generally
speaking.
Second, by planting deeply you will have buried dormant buds in the leaf
axils, since the buried stems will root this results in the potential to
make more stems if something should happen to the top growth, and of course
in many cases something will happen to the top as you are going to cut it
down in winter!

The fungus that can cause Clematis wilt is air not soil born and deep
planting does not in any way stop plants from getting wilt, but it does
greatly improve the chances of recovery if a plant does wilt as the below
ground parts are safe from infection and there are more dormant buds that
can regrow, 100% of wilted clematis will try and regrow, sadly their
attempts are not always noticed as slugs or snails mow the new growth off as
fast as it comes and the plant eventually gives up.

Most cases of Clematis wilt have nothing to do with any fungal agent and are
caused by something damaging the stems, wind and snails are two common
causes but dog wee, husbands with strimmers, voles - the list sadly goes on!

--
Charlie, Gardening in Cornwall
Holders of National Collections of Clematis viticella
and Lapageria rosea cvs
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk

On 20/11/2012 17:28, Charlie Pridham wrote:

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2012-11-20 11:28:05 +0000, Jeff Layman said:

I've often wondered where this advice came from. I can't see that it
would make any difference - once the clematis starts growing it creates
its own shade anyway.

In the "Illustrated History of Gardening" (1884 - 1888) there is no
mention of a need to cover the roots. But the answer may be in
"Cassell's Dictionary of Gardening" (1913). Here it notes "The Clematis
is subject in some gardens to a disease which causes it to die off. This
appears to be caused by an unknown constituent in the soil in these
gardens, but in some where the clematis has previously failed it has been
found that then plants will grow satisfactorily if the lower portions of
the stems are shaded from the sun by other plants. This is worthy of a
trial in gardens where the plant has hitherto been lost".

So to get round clematis wilt (assuming that is what the article is
referring to), one suggestion was to shade the lower part of the plant.
We now, of course, use "maximum shading" by burying the plant much more
deeply than normal!

If that is the explanation for generally shading the roots, it is
interesting how it has become corrupted and expanded to cover (no pun
intended) clematis planting generally.

It certainly is interesting because the perceived wisdom is that they
require a cool root run, asfaik, hence the shading from shrubs or pieces
of stone/slate etc. But according to Ray, a lot of what was once written
in books is simply repeated as Gospel until someone goes "hang on a
minute......why?"!
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/


I agree, oft repeated, never explained so useless information.

Clematis like a moist root run so if they are planted in a sunny hot spot
then yes shading the roots will help. otherwise its not needed, indeed I am
not a fan of stones as they just provide B&B accommodation for snails and
slugs! I much prefer a good mulch.

However with the hybrid clematis they do benefit from deeper planting, this
achieves two things, first the deeper you go the damper the soil generally
speaking.
Second, by planting deeply you will have buried dormant buds in the leaf
axils, since the buried stems will root this results in the potential to
make more stems if something should happen to the top growth, and of course
in many cases something will happen to the top as you are going to cut it
down in winter!

The fungus that can cause Clematis wilt is air not soil born and deep
planting does not in any way stop plants from getting wilt, but it does
greatly improve the chances of recovery if a plant does wilt as the below
ground parts are safe from infection and there are more dormant buds that
can regrow, 100% of wilted clematis will try and regrow, sadly their
attempts are not always noticed as slugs or snails mow the new growth off as
fast as it comes and the plant eventually gives up.

Most cases of Clematis wilt have nothing to do with any fungal agent and are
caused by something damaging the stems, wind and snails are two common
causes but dog wee, husbands with strimmers, voles - the list sadly goes on!

Oh, well, that's one myth I will no longer repeat! I'd completely
missed the slug/snail problem when using stones; that's a good point,
Charlie.

In future I will sum up the planting of clematis with "plant deeply in
moist soil and water well in hot or dry weather. A mulch will help".

--

Jeff