We have two lemon trees indoors by the bi-folds.

They are doing well apart from the aphids.

From recent Googling the biological controls are not available yet this
year.

Spraying advice doesn't seem to include Citrus in the UK.

Any recommendations?
More importantly, anything NOT to use?

They can be considered ornamental at the moment because they are showing
no sign of flowering.

Cheers

Dave R

On 27/02/2013 13:25, David.WE.Roberts wrote:
We have two lemon trees indoors by the bi-folds.

They are doing well apart from the aphids.

From recent Googling the biological controls are not available yet this
year.

Spraying advice doesn't seem to include Citrus in the UK.

Any recommendations?
More importantly, anything NOT to use?

They can be considered ornamental at the moment because they are showing
no sign of flowering.

Cheers

Dave R



Bayer seem to have the answer:-

http://www.bayeradvanced.com/insects...stions-answers

I have never used this chemical, so this is not a recommendation, but
hope it helps.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 14:00:40 +0000, Spider wrote:

On 27/02/2013 13:25, David.WE.Roberts wrote:
We have two lemon trees indoors by the bi-folds.

They are doing well apart from the aphids.

From recent Googling the biological controls are not available yet
this
year.

Spraying advice doesn't seem to include Citrus in the UK.

Any recommendations?
More importantly, anything NOT to use?

They can be considered ornamental at the moment because they are
showing no sign of flowering.

Cheers

Dave R



Bayer seem to have the answer:-

http://www.bayeradvanced.com/insects.../fruit-citrus-
vegetable-insect-control/questions-answers

I have never used this chemical, so this is not a recommendation, but
hope it helps.

Unfortunately it is not listed in this country.
The only real citrus-related product Bayer list is the Baby Bio citrus
food.

Presumably citrus growing in the UK is such a minority pastime that they
don't brand products for it.

Cheers

Dave R

On 27/02/2013 15:49, David.WE.Roberts wrote:
On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 14:00:40 +0000, Spider wrote:

On 27/02/2013 13:25, David.WE.Roberts wrote:
We have two lemon trees indoors by the bi-folds.

They are doing well apart from the aphids.

From recent Googling the biological controls are not available yet
this
year.

Spraying advice doesn't seem to include Citrus in the UK.

Any recommendations?
More importantly, anything NOT to use?

They can be considered ornamental at the moment because they are
showing no sign of flowering.

Cheers

Dave R



Bayer seem to have the answer:-

http://www.bayeradvanced.com/insects.../fruit-citrus-
vegetable-insect-control/questions-answers

I have never used this chemical, so this is not a recommendation, but
hope it helps.

Unfortunately it is not listed in this country.
The only real citrus-related product Bayer list is the Baby Bio citrus
food.

Presumably citrus growing in the UK is such a minority pastime that they
don't brand products for it.

Cheers

Dave R




Sorry, should have spotted that!

I haven't been able to find any other 'edibles-safe' systemic
insecticide. You could either try a contact insecticide or simply try
washing the aphids off with a mild detergent solution, as Chris
suggested. In truth, even if you just washed them off with plain water
you would drown them, making your plant safe and, indeed, you would be
safer, too. However, you would probably have to do this fairly
regularly to keep the plants clean.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

In article ,
Chris Hogg wrote:

I haven't been able to find any other 'edibles-safe' systemic
insecticide. You could either try a contact insecticide or simply try
washing the aphids off with a mild detergent solution, as Chris
suggested.

I think it does more than just wash them off. AIUI, the soap solution
wets them very effectively, including into their spiracles (breathing
holes) and they drown. I think Nick Maclaren recommends adding a dash
of meths to the brew for extra effectiveness.

I do, but I wasn't the originator. I tend to use soft soap (Savona),
which is available from Tuckers, but diluted washing-up liquid with
a dash of meths works well, too. They work the same way.

It both blocks their spiracles and tends to wash the waxy coating
off ones that have it (e.g. mealybugs), which then dessicate. And
you can use it immediately before eating the product, and in large
quantities (i.e. spray the plants until they are running with it).
A few plants are supposed to be sensitive to it, but I haven't
had trouble.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 27/02/2013 14:00, Spider wrote:
On 27/02/2013 13:25, David.WE.Roberts wrote:
We have two lemon trees indoors by the bi-folds.

They are doing well apart from the aphids.

From recent Googling the biological controls are not available yet this
year.

Spraying advice doesn't seem to include Citrus in the UK.

Any recommendations?
More importantly, anything NOT to use?

They can be considered ornamental at the moment because they are showing
no sign of flowering.

Cheers

Dave R



Bayer seem to have the answer:-

http://www.bayeradvanced.com/insects...stions-answers

I have never used this chemical, so this is not a recommendation, but
hope it helps.

You've never used imidacloprid (Provado)? It's the active ingredient in
that product.

--

Jeff

"Jeff Layman" wrote

, Spider wrote:
David.WE.Roberts wrote:
We have two lemon trees indoors by the bi-folds.

They are doing well apart from the aphids.

From recent Googling the biological controls are not available yet
this
year.

Spraying advice doesn't seem to include Citrus in the UK.

Any recommendations?
More importantly, anything NOT to use?

They can be considered ornamental at the moment because they are showing
no sign of flowering.


Bayer seem to have the answer:-

http://www.bayeradvanced.com/insects...stions-answers

I have never used this chemical, so this is not a recommendation, but
hope it helps.

You've never used imidacloprid (Provado)? It's the active ingredient in
that product.


Isn't that one of the chemicals that is killing the bees?
--
Regards. Bob Hobden.
Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK

On 2013-02-27 23:05:53 +0000, Bob Hobden said:

"Jeff Layman" wrote

, Spider wrote:
David.WE.Roberts wrote:
We have two lemon trees indoors by the bi-folds.

They are doing well apart from the aphids.

From recent Googling the biological controls are not available yet this
year.

Spraying advice doesn't seem to include Citrus in the UK.

Any recommendations?
More importantly, anything NOT to use?

They can be considered ornamental at the moment because they are showing
no sign of flowering.


Bayer seem to have the answer:-

http://www.bayeradvanced.com/insects...stions-answers


I have never used this chemical, so this is not a recommendation, but
hope it helps.

You've never used imidacloprid (Provado)? It's the active ingredient
in that product.


Isn't that one of the chemicals that is killing the bees?

Yes. Trying to avoid using these is very important.
http://www.soilassociation.org/wildl...holdpesticides
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

On 28/02/2013 12:02, Sacha wrote:
On 2013-02-27 23:05:53 +0000, Bob Hobden said:

"Jeff Layman" wrote

, Spider wrote:
David.WE.Roberts wrote:
We have two lemon trees indoors by the bi-folds.

They are doing well apart from the aphids.

From recent Googling the biological controls are not available yet
this
year.

Spraying advice doesn't seem to include Citrus in the UK.

Any recommendations?
More importantly, anything NOT to use?

They can be considered ornamental at the moment because they are
showing
no sign of flowering.


Bayer seem to have the answer:-

http://www.bayeradvanced.com/insects...stions-answers


I have never used this chemical, so this is not a recommendation, but
hope it helps.

You've never used imidacloprid (Provado)? It's the active ingredient
in that product.


Isn't that one of the chemicals that is killing the bees?

Yes. Trying to avoid using these is very important.
http://www.soilassociation.org/wildl...holdpesticides



Gladly acknowledged, Sacha, but I thought it was **relatively** safe if
not sprayed directly onto open flowers, and preferably sprayed during
the early morning or late evening when bees are not active.

I have used it sparingly indoors on an orchid; also I imagine Dave would
be using it indoors, so bees would not be harmed in these two instances.
However, I believe the toxin takes a long time to degrade so there may
be issues with citrus and other edibles, which is why I didn't suggest
it to Dave.

I'm prepared to be wrong .. I am sometimes ;~).

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

On 2013-02-28 12:33:36 +0000, Martin said:

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:02:07 +0000, Sacha wrote:

On 2013-02-27 23:05:53 +0000, Bob Hobden said:

"Jeff Layman" wrote

, Spider wrote:
David.WE.Roberts wrote:
We have two lemon trees indoors by the bi-folds.

They are doing well apart from the aphids.

From recent Googling the biological controls are not available yet this
year.

Spraying advice doesn't seem to include Citrus in the UK.

Any recommendations?
More importantly, anything NOT to use?

They can be considered ornamental at the moment because they are showing
no sign of flowering.


Bayer seem to have the answer:-

http://www.bayeradvanced.com/insects...stions-answers



I have never used this chemical, so this is not a recommendation, but
hope it helps.

You've never used imidacloprid (Provado)? It's the active ingredient
in that product.


Isn't that one of the chemicals that is killing the bees?

Yes. Trying to avoid using these is very important.
http://www.soilassociation.org/wildl...holdpesticides

Did the Soil Association deliberately ignore the Varoaa virus and its
propagation by mites or is the website out of date?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/18339797
http://www.bbka.org.uk/files/pressre...4158530 5.pdf

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/33.../1304.abstract

Sorry but I'm not sure what you're asking? Today is a little crowded
so I haven't had a lot of time to read/check. The Varroa virus has
been around for a long time and is a major factor in the death of bees.
Some insecticide sprays are, too. But as far as I know, there's no
spray against Varroa. I don't know - and must find out - if e.g.
Apistan strips are a compulsory part of bee-keeping in UK.
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

On 27/02/2013 22:54, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 27/02/2013 14:00, Spider wrote:
On 27/02/2013 13:25, David.WE.Roberts wrote:
We have two lemon trees indoors by the bi-folds.

They are doing well apart from the aphids.

From recent Googling the biological controls are not available yet this
year.

Spraying advice doesn't seem to include Citrus in the UK.

Any recommendations?
More importantly, anything NOT to use?

They can be considered ornamental at the moment because they are showing
no sign of flowering.

Cheers

Dave R



Bayer seem to have the answer:-

http://www.bayeradvanced.com/insects...stions-answers


I have never used this chemical, so this is not a recommendation, but
hope it helps.

You've never used imidacloprid (Provado)? It's the active ingredient in
that product.




Indeed I have, Jeff, and recommended it to friends. However, I wasn't
aware it was safe for edibles or citrus (which I appreciate is an
edible, but may also be rendered sickly by some chemicals), so I was
erring on the side of caution. If you know it to be safe for both
citrus specifically and edibles generally, then Dave may be happy to use it.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

On 28/02/2013 13:33, Spider wrote:
On 27/02/2013 22:54, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 27/02/2013 14:00, Spider wrote:
On 27/02/2013 13:25, David.WE.Roberts wrote:
We have two lemon trees indoors by the bi-folds.

They are doing well apart from the aphids.

From recent Googling the biological controls are not available yet this
year.

Spraying advice doesn't seem to include Citrus in the UK.

Any recommendations?
More importantly, anything NOT to use?

They can be considered ornamental at the moment because they are showing
no sign of flowering.

Cheers

Dave R



Bayer seem to have the answer:-

http://www.bayeradvanced.com/insects...stions-answers


I have never used this chemical, so this is not a recommendation, but
hope it helps.

You've never used imidacloprid (Provado)? It's the active ingredient in
that product.

Indeed I have, Jeff, and recommended it to friends. However, I wasn't
aware it was safe for edibles or citrus (which I appreciate is an
edible, but may also be rendered sickly by some chemicals), so I was
erring on the side of caution. If you know it to be safe for both
citrus specifically and edibles generally, then Dave may be happy to use it.

Fair enough. I wasn't criticising or promoting its use. It's just that
I'd never heard of that particular Bayer product, and it took me some
time to find on the website that imidacloprid was the active ingredient
in it. Many companies have idiotic names for their products; very
similar brand names for different ingredients, or different brand names
for identical ingredients.

As to whether or not it's safe for citrus or other edibles, I've no idea
- I'd follow the manufacturer's guidelines. I must say that although
I'd draw the line at spraying a ripe tomato with nicotine and eating it
without washing, I cannot see an approved systemic insecticide leaving a
toxic level inside a fruit. You might think otherwise. More info he
http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/imidacloprid.pdf
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:...l.pone.0005127

--

Jeff

On 28/02/2013 18:27, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 28/02/2013 13:33, Spider wrote:
On 27/02/2013 22:54, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 27/02/2013 14:00, Spider wrote:
On 27/02/2013 13:25, David.WE.Roberts wrote:
We have two lemon trees indoors by the bi-folds.

They are doing well apart from the aphids.

From recent Googling the biological controls are not available yet
this
year.

Spraying advice doesn't seem to include Citrus in the UK.

Any recommendations?
More importantly, anything NOT to use?

They can be considered ornamental at the moment because they are
showing
no sign of flowering.

Cheers

Dave R



Bayer seem to have the answer:-

http://www.bayeradvanced.com/insects...stions-answers



I have never used this chemical, so this is not a recommendation, but
hope it helps.

You've never used imidacloprid (Provado)? It's the active ingredient in
that product.

Indeed I have, Jeff, and recommended it to friends. However, I wasn't
aware it was safe for edibles or citrus (which I appreciate is an
edible, but may also be rendered sickly by some chemicals), so I was
erring on the side of caution. If you know it to be safe for both
citrus specifically and edibles generally, then Dave may be happy to
use it.

Fair enough. I wasn't criticising or promoting its use. It's just that
I'd never heard of that particular Bayer product, and it took me some
time to find on the website that imidacloprid was the active ingredient
in it. Many companies have idiotic names for their products; very
similar brand names for different ingredients, or different brand names
for identical ingredients.

As to whether or not it's safe for citrus or other edibles, I've no idea
- I'd follow the manufacturer's guidelines. I must say that although I'd
draw the line at spraying a ripe tomato with nicotine and eating it
without washing, I cannot see an approved systemic insecticide leaving a
toxic level inside a fruit. You might think otherwise. More info he
http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/imidacloprid.pdf
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:...l.pone.0005127





No criticism was taken, Jeff, nor could you 'promote' my use of Provado
if my inclination was against it :~). I do use it, but as little as
possible ... becoming less by the minute.

Reading the second link re human poisonings is pretty scary. You only
have to suffer from asthma (as I do) to see how bad it could get. I'm
always careful with chemicals (often ask RG to deal with it!!), but I
shall be even more careful from now on (nag RG to wear gloves and
mask!). No, seriously, it's designed to kill; why would we suppose it
doesn't?!

Thanks for those links.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

On 27/02/2013 13:25, David.WE.Roberts wrote:
We have two lemon trees indoors by the bi-folds.

They are doing well apart from the aphids.

From recent Googling the biological controls are not available yet this
year.

Spraying advice doesn't seem to include Citrus in the UK.

Any recommendations?
More importantly, anything NOT to use?

They can be considered ornamental at the moment because they are showing
no sign of flowering.

Cheers

Dave R

Well we've seen a variety of ideas so far:-
My thoughts are as follows
Most insecticides have a time before harvest, even Organophosphorus was
2 weeks,
The chemical of choice in the US is found in Tumble Bug.
Whilst the plants are indoors, I'd move them outside to spray if you
can, then move them back inside.
If you are spraying with anything that may harm bead then don't spray
when in flower if possible, or if the plants are not to big then net
them for a couple of days after spraying to keep the bees etc. off them.
David @ the dull end of Swansea Bay where we are still waiting to see a
glimpse of the sun.

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 15:10:35 +0000, David Hill wrote:

On 27/02/2013 13:25, David.WE.Roberts wrote:
We have two lemon trees indoors by the bi-folds.

They are doing well apart from the aphids.

From recent Googling the biological controls are not available yet
this
year.

Spraying advice doesn't seem to include Citrus in the UK.

Any recommendations?
More importantly, anything NOT to use?

They can be considered ornamental at the moment because they are
showing no sign of flowering.

Cheers

Dave R

Well we've seen a variety of ideas so far:-
My thoughts are as follows Most insecticides have a time before harvest,
even Organophosphorus was 2 weeks,
The chemical of choice in the US is found in Tumble Bug.
Whilst the plants are indoors, I'd move them outside to spray if you
can, then move them back inside.
If you are spraying with anything that may harm bead then don't spray
when in flower if possible, or if the plants are not to big then net
them for a couple of days after spraying to keep the bees etc. off them.
David @ the dull end of Swansea Bay where we are still waiting to see a
glimpse of the sun.

Thanks for all the helpful contributions.

I haven't seen any bees around outside so far this year and there
certainly aren't any inside.
As the lemon (or other citrus) don't have any flowers then they are
unlikely to attract bees anyway.
Lack of flowers gives us a very long time until there is any suggestion of
edible fruit.
It has also been chuffin freezin so taking plants out of a centrally
heated room, spraying them, then leaving them until they have dried off
enough to come inside may be a little traumatic for them (and me).

So I am really looking for something which can be used indoors without
damaging a laminate floor - small quantities of mist preferred.

At the moment one lemon is losing its growing tips - they fall off if we
try and remove the aphids - so spraying with a chemical seems to be the
sensible option.

In a month or so they can be put outside to acclimatise then take their
chances.

At the moment they are growing, which is a good thing as they have had a
hard life.

The root stock with the graft killed off a couple of years back is going
wild and has the look of a potentially large bush by summer.

The lemon cutting bought from the Range a few years back is far less
vigorous and this is the one most in need of chemical help.

Will post pictures of the root stock leaves in a while (see other thread)
in the hope that it can be identified.

I do have this vague ambition to grow the lemon on a bit then try and
graft a bit onto the rootstock.

Which then makes me wonder if anyone has produced a citrus 'family tree'
with lemons, limes and oranges.

Cheers

Dave R