We have two lemon trees indoors by the bi-folds.

They are doing well apart from the aphids.

From recent Googling the biological controls are not available yet this
year.

Spraying advice doesn't seem to include Citrus in the UK.

Any recommendations?
More importantly, anything NOT to use?

They can be considered ornamental at the moment because they are showing
no sign of flowering.

Cheers

Dave R

On 27/02/2013 13:25, David.WE.Roberts wrote:
We have two lemon trees indoors by the bi-folds.

They are doing well apart from the aphids.

From recent Googling the biological controls are not available yet this
year.

Spraying advice doesn't seem to include Citrus in the UK.

Any recommendations?
More importantly, anything NOT to use?

They can be considered ornamental at the moment because they are showing
no sign of flowering.

Cheers

Dave R



Bayer seem to have the answer:-

http://www.bayeradvanced.com/insects...stions-answers

I have never used this chemical, so this is not a recommendation, but
hope it helps.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 14:00:40 +0000, Spider wrote:

On 27/02/2013 13:25, David.WE.Roberts wrote:
We have two lemon trees indoors by the bi-folds.

They are doing well apart from the aphids.

From recent Googling the biological controls are not available yet
this
year.

Spraying advice doesn't seem to include Citrus in the UK.

Any recommendations?
More importantly, anything NOT to use?

They can be considered ornamental at the moment because they are
showing no sign of flowering.

Cheers

Dave R



Bayer seem to have the answer:-

http://www.bayeradvanced.com/insects.../fruit-citrus-
vegetable-insect-control/questions-answers

I have never used this chemical, so this is not a recommendation, but
hope it helps.

Unfortunately it is not listed in this country.
The only real citrus-related product Bayer list is the Baby Bio citrus
food.

Presumably citrus growing in the UK is such a minority pastime that they
don't brand products for it.

Cheers

Dave R

On 27/02/2013 15:49, David.WE.Roberts wrote:
On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 14:00:40 +0000, Spider wrote:

On 27/02/2013 13:25, David.WE.Roberts wrote:
We have two lemon trees indoors by the bi-folds.

They are doing well apart from the aphids.

From recent Googling the biological controls are not available yet
this
year.

Spraying advice doesn't seem to include Citrus in the UK.

Any recommendations?
More importantly, anything NOT to use?

They can be considered ornamental at the moment because they are
showing no sign of flowering.

Cheers

Dave R



Bayer seem to have the answer:-

http://www.bayeradvanced.com/insects.../fruit-citrus-
vegetable-insect-control/questions-answers

I have never used this chemical, so this is not a recommendation, but
hope it helps.

Unfortunately it is not listed in this country.
The only real citrus-related product Bayer list is the Baby Bio citrus
food.

Presumably citrus growing in the UK is such a minority pastime that they
don't brand products for it.

Cheers

Dave R




Sorry, should have spotted that!

I haven't been able to find any other 'edibles-safe' systemic
insecticide. You could either try a contact insecticide or simply try
washing the aphids off with a mild detergent solution, as Chris
suggested. In truth, even if you just washed them off with plain water
you would drown them, making your plant safe and, indeed, you would be
safer, too. However, you would probably have to do this fairly
regularly to keep the plants clean.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

In article ,
Chris Hogg wrote:

I haven't been able to find any other 'edibles-safe' systemic
insecticide. You could either try a contact insecticide or simply try
washing the aphids off with a mild detergent solution, as Chris
suggested.

I think it does more than just wash them off. AIUI, the soap solution
wets them very effectively, including into their spiracles (breathing
holes) and they drown. I think Nick Maclaren recommends adding a dash
of meths to the brew for extra effectiveness.

I do, but I wasn't the originator. I tend to use soft soap (Savona),
which is available from Tuckers, but diluted washing-up liquid with
a dash of meths works well, too. They work the same way.

It both blocks their spiracles and tends to wash the waxy coating
off ones that have it (e.g. mealybugs), which then dessicate. And
you can use it immediately before eating the product, and in large
quantities (i.e. spray the plants until they are running with it).
A few plants are supposed to be sensitive to it, but I haven't
had trouble.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 27/02/2013 14:00, Spider wrote:
On 27/02/2013 13:25, David.WE.Roberts wrote:
We have two lemon trees indoors by the bi-folds.

They are doing well apart from the aphids.

From recent Googling the biological controls are not available yet this
year.

Spraying advice doesn't seem to include Citrus in the UK.

Any recommendations?
More importantly, anything NOT to use?

They can be considered ornamental at the moment because they are showing
no sign of flowering.

Cheers

Dave R



Bayer seem to have the answer:-

http://www.bayeradvanced.com/insects...stions-answers

I have never used this chemical, so this is not a recommendation, but
hope it helps.

You've never used imidacloprid (Provado)? It's the active ingredient in
that product.

--

Jeff

"Jeff Layman" wrote

, Spider wrote:
David.WE.Roberts wrote:
We have two lemon trees indoors by the bi-folds.

They are doing well apart from the aphids.

From recent Googling the biological controls are not available yet
this
year.

Spraying advice doesn't seem to include Citrus in the UK.

Any recommendations?
More importantly, anything NOT to use?

They can be considered ornamental at the moment because they are showing
no sign of flowering.


Bayer seem to have the answer:-

http://www.bayeradvanced.com/insects...stions-answers

I have never used this chemical, so this is not a recommendation, but
hope it helps.

You've never used imidacloprid (Provado)? It's the active ingredient in
that product.


Isn't that one of the chemicals that is killing the bees?
--
Regards. Bob Hobden.
Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK

On 2013-02-27 23:05:53 +0000, Bob Hobden said:

"Jeff Layman" wrote

, Spider wrote:
David.WE.Roberts wrote:
We have two lemon trees indoors by the bi-folds.

They are doing well apart from the aphids.

From recent Googling the biological controls are not available yet this
year.

Spraying advice doesn't seem to include Citrus in the UK.

Any recommendations?
More importantly, anything NOT to use?

They can be considered ornamental at the moment because they are showing
no sign of flowering.


Bayer seem to have the answer:-

http://www.bayeradvanced.com/insects...stions-answers


I have never used this chemical, so this is not a recommendation, but
hope it helps.

You've never used imidacloprid (Provado)? It's the active ingredient
in that product.


Isn't that one of the chemicals that is killing the bees?

Yes. Trying to avoid using these is very important.
http://www.soilassociation.org/wildl...holdpesticides
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

On 27/02/2013 22:54, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 27/02/2013 14:00, Spider wrote:
On 27/02/2013 13:25, David.WE.Roberts wrote:
We have two lemon trees indoors by the bi-folds.

They are doing well apart from the aphids.

From recent Googling the biological controls are not available yet this
year.

Spraying advice doesn't seem to include Citrus in the UK.

Any recommendations?
More importantly, anything NOT to use?

They can be considered ornamental at the moment because they are showing
no sign of flowering.

Cheers

Dave R



Bayer seem to have the answer:-

http://www.bayeradvanced.com/insects...stions-answers


I have never used this chemical, so this is not a recommendation, but
hope it helps.

You've never used imidacloprid (Provado)? It's the active ingredient in
that product.




Indeed I have, Jeff, and recommended it to friends. However, I wasn't
aware it was safe for edibles or citrus (which I appreciate is an
edible, but may also be rendered sickly by some chemicals), so I was
erring on the side of caution. If you know it to be safe for both
citrus specifically and edibles generally, then Dave may be happy to use it.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

On 28/02/2013 12:02, Sacha wrote:
On 2013-02-27 23:05:53 +0000, Bob Hobden said:

"Jeff Layman" wrote

, Spider wrote:
David.WE.Roberts wrote:
We have two lemon trees indoors by the bi-folds.

They are doing well apart from the aphids.

From recent Googling the biological controls are not available yet
this
year.

Spraying advice doesn't seem to include Citrus in the UK.

Any recommendations?
More importantly, anything NOT to use?

They can be considered ornamental at the moment because they are
showing
no sign of flowering.


Bayer seem to have the answer:-

http://www.bayeradvanced.com/insects...stions-answers


I have never used this chemical, so this is not a recommendation, but
hope it helps.

You've never used imidacloprid (Provado)? It's the active ingredient
in that product.


Isn't that one of the chemicals that is killing the bees?

Yes. Trying to avoid using these is very important.
http://www.soilassociation.org/wildl...holdpesticides



Gladly acknowledged, Sacha, but I thought it was **relatively** safe if
not sprayed directly onto open flowers, and preferably sprayed during
the early morning or late evening when bees are not active.

I have used it sparingly indoors on an orchid; also I imagine Dave would
be using it indoors, so bees would not be harmed in these two instances.
However, I believe the toxin takes a long time to degrade so there may
be issues with citrus and other edibles, which is why I didn't suggest
it to Dave.

I'm prepared to be wrong .. I am sometimes ;~).

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

On 2013-02-28 13:43:42 +0000, Spider said:

On 28/02/2013 12:02, Sacha wrote:
On 2013-02-27 23:05:53 +0000, Bob Hobden said:

"Jeff Layman" wrote

, Spider wrote:
David.WE.Roberts wrote:
We have two lemon trees indoors by the bi-folds.

They are doing well apart from the aphids.

From recent Googling the biological controls are not available yet
this
year.

Spraying advice doesn't seem to include Citrus in the UK.

Any recommendations?
More importantly, anything NOT to use?

They can be considered ornamental at the moment because they are
showing
no sign of flowering.


Bayer seem to have the answer:-

http://www.bayeradvanced.com/insects...stions-answers



I have never used this chemical, so this is not a recommendation, but
hope it helps.

You've never used imidacloprid (Provado)? It's the active ingredient
in that product.


Isn't that one of the chemicals that is killing the bees?

Yes. Trying to avoid using these is very important.
http://www.soilassociation.org/wildl...holdpesticides



Gladly acknowledged, Sacha, but I thought it was **relatively** safe if
not sprayed directly onto open flowers, and preferably sprayed during
the early morning or late evening when bees are not active.

I have used it sparingly indoors on an orchid; also I imagine Dave
would be using it indoors, so bees would not be harmed in these two
instances. However, I believe the toxin takes a long time to degrade
so there may be issues with citrus and other edibles, which is why I
didn't suggest it to Dave.

I'm prepared to be wrong .. I am sometimes ;~).

Surely not?! ;-) I'm sure you're both using it indoors so the danger
then is minimal. The web site is approaching its from the sense of its
being used broadly on all sorts of plants. But I don't think the early
morning/late evening theory applies. Ime, bees forage from first to
last light on warm days, especially.
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

On 27/02/2013 13:25, David.WE.Roberts wrote:
We have two lemon trees indoors by the bi-folds.

They are doing well apart from the aphids.

From recent Googling the biological controls are not available yet this
year.

Spraying advice doesn't seem to include Citrus in the UK.

Any recommendations?
More importantly, anything NOT to use?

They can be considered ornamental at the moment because they are showing
no sign of flowering.

Cheers

Dave R

Well we've seen a variety of ideas so far:-
My thoughts are as follows
Most insecticides have a time before harvest, even Organophosphorus was
2 weeks,
The chemical of choice in the US is found in Tumble Bug.
Whilst the plants are indoors, I'd move them outside to spray if you
can, then move them back inside.
If you are spraying with anything that may harm bead then don't spray
when in flower if possible, or if the plants are not to big then net
them for a couple of days after spraying to keep the bees etc. off them.
David @ the dull end of Swansea Bay where we are still waiting to see a
glimpse of the sun.

On 28/02/2013 14:13, Sacha wrote:
On 2013-02-28 13:43:42 +0000, Spider said:

On 28/02/2013 12:02, Sacha wrote:
On 2013-02-27 23:05:53 +0000, Bob Hobden said:

"Jeff Layman" wrote

, Spider wrote:
David.WE.Roberts wrote:
We have two lemon trees indoors by the bi-folds.

They are doing well apart from the aphids.

From recent Googling the biological controls are not available yet
this
year.

Spraying advice doesn't seem to include Citrus in the UK.

Any recommendations?
More importantly, anything NOT to use?

They can be considered ornamental at the moment because they are
showing
no sign of flowering.


Bayer seem to have the answer:-

http://www.bayeradvanced.com/insects...stions-answers



I have never used this chemical, so this is not a recommendation, but
hope it helps.

You've never used imidacloprid (Provado)? It's the active ingredient
in that product.


Isn't that one of the chemicals that is killing the bees?

Yes. Trying to avoid using these is very important.
http://www.soilassociation.org/wildl...holdpesticides



Gladly acknowledged, Sacha, but I thought it was **relatively** safe
if not sprayed directly onto open flowers, and preferably sprayed
during the early morning or late evening when bees are not active.

I have used it sparingly indoors on an orchid; also I imagine Dave
would be using it indoors, so bees would not be harmed in these two
instances. However, I believe the toxin takes a long time to degrade
so there may be issues with citrus and other edibles, which is why I
didn't suggest it to Dave.

I'm prepared to be wrong .. I am sometimes ;~).

Surely not?! ;-)


So I'm assured :~)


I'm sure you're both using it indoors so the danger
then is minimal. The web site is approaching its from the sense of its
being used broadly on all sorts of plants. But I don't think the early
morning/late evening theory applies. Ime, bees forage from first to last
light on warm days, especially.



Yes, indeed, bees certainly get up long before I do and they're usually
still around when I gravitate indoors. I use as few chemicals as I can
because I love bees and all the beneficial insects/creatures. In
future, then, I'll have to take any pot plants indoors to be judicially
sprayed and border plants will have to take their chance once I've
hand-picked a few bugs off.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

On 2013-02-28 17:31:18 +0000, Spider said:

On 28/02/2013 14:13, Sacha wrote:
On 2013-02-28 13:43:42 +0000, Spider said:

On 28/02/2013 12:02, Sacha wrote:
On 2013-02-27 23:05:53 +0000, Bob Hobden said:

"Jeff Layman" wrote

, Spider wrote:
David.WE.Roberts wrote:
snip
You've never used imidacloprid (Provado)? It's the active ingredient
in that product.


Isn't that one of the chemicals that is killing the bees?

Yes. Trying to avoid using these is very important.
http://www.soilassociation.org/wildl...holdpesticides



Gladly acknowledged, Sacha, but I thought it was **relatively** safe
if not sprayed directly onto open flowers, and preferably sprayed
during the early morning or late evening when bees are not active.

I have used it sparingly indoors on an orchid; also I imagine Dave
would be using it indoors, so bees would not be harmed in these two
instances. However, I believe the toxin takes a long time to degrade
so there may be issues with citrus and other edibles, which is why I
didn't suggest it to Dave.

I'm prepared to be wrong .. I am sometimes ;~).

Surely not?! ;-)


So I'm assured :~)


I'm sure you're both using it indoors so the danger
then is minimal. The web site is approaching its from the sense of its
being used broadly on all sorts of plants. But I don't think the early
morning/late evening theory applies. Ime, bees forage from first to last
light on warm days, especially.



Yes, indeed, bees certainly get up long before I do and they're usually
still around when I gravitate indoors. I use as few chemicals as I can
because I love bees and all the beneficial insects/creatures. In
future, then, I'll have to take any pot plants indoors to be judicially
sprayed and border plants will have to take their chance once I've
hand-picked a few bugs off.

It seems important to know what affects them and what we, as gardeners,
just have to learn to live with in terms of pest control. And I know
you're not one of the cavaliers in terms of the latter!! ;-)

--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

On 28/02/2013 17:31, Spider wrote:
On 28/02/2013 14:13, Sacha wrote:
On 2013-02-28 13:43:42 +0000, Spider said:

On 28/02/2013 12:02, Sacha wrote:
On 2013-02-27 23:05:53 +0000, Bob Hobden said:

"Jeff Layman" wrote

, Spider wrote:
David.WE.Roberts wrote:
We have two lemon trees indoors by the bi-folds.

They are doing well apart from the aphids.

From recent Googling the biological controls are not available yet
this
year.

Spraying advice doesn't seem to include Citrus in the UK.

Any recommendations?
More importantly, anything NOT to use?

They can be considered ornamental at the moment because they are
showing
no sign of flowering.


Bayer seem to have the answer:-

http://www.bayeradvanced.com/insects...stions-answers




I have never used this chemical, so this is not a recommendation,
but
hope it helps.

You've never used imidacloprid (Provado)? It's the active ingredient
in that product.


Isn't that one of the chemicals that is killing the bees?

Yes. Trying to avoid using these is very important.
http://www.soilassociation.org/wildl...holdpesticides



Gladly acknowledged, Sacha, but I thought it was **relatively** safe
if not sprayed directly onto open flowers, and preferably sprayed
during the early morning or late evening when bees are not active.

I have used it sparingly indoors on an orchid; also I imagine Dave
would be using it indoors, so bees would not be harmed in these two
instances. However, I believe the toxin takes a long time to degrade
so there may be issues with citrus and other edibles, which is why I
didn't suggest it to Dave.

I'm prepared to be wrong .. I am sometimes ;~).

Surely not?! ;-)


So I'm assured :~)


I'm sure you're both using it indoors so the danger
then is minimal. The web site is approaching its from the sense of its
being used broadly on all sorts of plants. But I don't think the early
morning/late evening theory applies. Ime, bees forage from first to last
light on warm days, especially.



Yes, indeed, bees certainly get up long before I do and they're usually
still around when I gravitate indoors. I use as few chemicals as I can
because I love bees and all the beneficial insects/creatures. In
future, then, I'll have to take any pot plants indoors to be judicially
sprayed

You'll really get a judge to spray them ??? ;-)

David

--
David Rance writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France