Sterilizing Kilner jars
 

I was wondering, instead of wasting gas and electricity to sterilize the
jars, if citric acid and sodium bisulphite(as in winemaking sterilization)
would do the trick.
I do bottle some things when I have the oven on and cooking.

Thanks
Baz

Sterilizing Kilner jars
 

In article , Baz wrote:
I was wondering, instead of wasting gas and electricity to sterilize the
jars, if citric acid and sodium bisulphite(as in winemaking sterilization)
would do the trick.
I do bottle some things when I have the oven on and cooking.

No, they wouldn't. Not even remotely.

That combination kills things like acetobacter, lactobacter etc.,
few of which sporulate. If you are going to store non-acid foods
anaerobically, you need to either kill some very tough spores or
prevent them from growing. That is why salting, smoking etc. were
and are used to preserve such foods.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Sterilizing Kilner jars
 

On 07/09/2013 12:39, Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article , Baz wrote:
I was wondering, instead of wasting gas and electricity to sterilize the
jars, if citric acid and sodium bisulphite(as in winemaking sterilization)
would do the trick.
I do bottle some things when I have the oven on and cooking.

No, they wouldn't. Not even remotely.

That combination kills things like acetobacter, lactobacter etc.,
few of which sporulate. If you are going to store non-acid foods
anaerobically, you need to either kill some very tough spores or
prevent them from growing. That is why salting, smoking etc. were
and are used to preserve such foods.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

I am sure that in the beginning Baz said he was going to bottle fruit
and veg.
Where have you got this obsessive idea that he is going to bottle fish
and meat?
For fruit I've used a combination of Sodium Metabisulphite and boiling
water to clean the jars, as I do for Jam, just has foul vapour.
David @ a now clouding over side of Swansea Bay

Sterilizing Kilner jars
 

In article ,
David Hill wrote:

I was wondering, instead of wasting gas and electricity to sterilize the
jars, if citric acid and sodium bisulphite(as in winemaking sterilization)
would do the trick.
I do bottle some things when I have the oven on and cooking.

No, they wouldn't. Not even remotely.

That combination kills things like acetobacter, lactobacter etc.,
few of which sporulate. If you are going to store non-acid foods
anaerobically, you need to either kill some very tough spores or
prevent them from growing. That is why salting, smoking etc. were
and are used to preserve such foods.

I am sure that in the beginning Baz said he was going to bottle fruit
and veg.
Where have you got this obsessive idea that he is going to bottle fish
and meat?
For fruit I've used a combination of Sodium Metabisulphite and boiling
water to clean the jars, as I do for Jam, just has foul vapour.

I have not, but you seem to have an obsessive delusion that all
vegetables are high in acid. Since you seem to have trouble with
this:

MOST VEGETABLES DO NOT CONTAIN ENOUGH ACID TO STOP CLOSTRIDIUM
BOTULINUM FROM GROWING.

MOST FRUITS DO, HOWEVER, AND *T*H*E*R*F*O*R*E* EXPERIENCE WITH
FRUIT IS *I*R*R*E*L*E*V*A*N*T*.

THE RISK OF BOTULISM FROM BOTTLING VEGETABLES IS VERY LOW.

BUT THE RISK OF DEATH IS *V*E*R*Y* HIGH IF IT DOES HAPPEN.

IT IS PROBABLY *H*I*G*H*E*R* THAN FOR MEAT AND FISH, FOR
SEVERAL REASONS.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Sterilizing Kilner jars
 

Sterilizing Kilner jars
 

In article , says...

I was wondering, instead of wasting gas and electricity to sterilize the
jars, if citric acid and sodium bisulphite(as in winemaking sterilization)
would do the trick.

No, but you only need to have the oven on low for 20 mins so hardly a
vast expense.

Wash jars in hot soapy water, rinse, drain, pack the empty wet jars
standing upright in a roasting tin and put it in the oven. Turn oven on
to 120 C, once it's reached temp 10 mins should do it.


Janet

Sterilizing Kilner jars
 

"Janet" wrote in message
t...

In article , says...

I was wondering, instead of wasting gas and electricity to sterilize the
jars, if citric acid and sodium bisulphite(as in winemaking
sterilization)
would do the trick.

No, but you only need to have the oven on low for 20 mins so hardly a
vast expense.

Wash jars in hot soapy water, rinse, drain, pack the empty wet jars
standing upright in a roasting tin and put it in the oven. Turn oven on
to 120 C, once it's reached temp 10 mins should do it.

This is the method I use for sterilizing beer bottles and jam jar. I allow
the jam to cool to about 90C. You still get a 'ping' from the jar's safety
cap (or whatever it's called).

Sterilizing Kilner jars
 

In article , Baz wrote:

Capitals are regarded as shouting.
Perhaps you can set your keyboard to whispering.
Only joking.

But can I bottle.........
Joking again.

God help me, I am seriously ****ed off with the trolls and just
plain idiots who keep ignoring the simple fact that the vegetables
you want to bottle are non-acid :-(

I don't know exactly what the chances are of a non-gassy,
non-tainting botulinus infection are, but the consequences of one
are likely to be death for anyone eating the result. If I were
bottling vegetables, I would do as we did in the UK in the 1950s
and use pressure. Fruit isn't a problem, and you don't need
pressure.

There were good reasons that most people in the UK up to the
1950s used bottling only for fruit, and preserved vegetables by
salting, drying etc. Pressure bottling is a pain to do, and
constrains the amounts you do and size of bottles.

But it's your life ....


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Sterilizing Kilner jars
 

On Sat, 7 Sep 2013 14:27:51 +0100, Janet wrote:

In article , says...

I was wondering, instead of wasting gas and electricity to sterilize the
jars, if citric acid and sodium bisulphite(as in winemaking sterilization)
would do the trick.

No, but you only need to have the oven on low for 20 mins so hardly a
vast expense.

Wash jars in hot soapy water, rinse, drain, pack the empty wet jars
standing upright in a roasting tin and put it in the oven. Turn oven on
to 120 C, once it's reached temp 10 mins should do it.

I've never bottled anything and only occasionally make jam.
When making small amounts of jam, I sterilised my jars ( washed,
rinsed and drained) by half-filling them with water and giving them a
few minutes boiling in the microwave. Is this good enough?

Pam in Bristol

Sterilizing Kilner jars
 

On 2013-09-07 15:58:40 +0000, Pam Moore said:

On Sat, 7 Sep 2013 14:27:51 +0100, Janet wrote:

In article , says...

I was wondering, instead of wasting gas and electricity to sterilize the
jars, if citric acid and sodium bisulphite(as in winemaking sterilization)
would do the trick.

No, but you only need to have the oven on low for 20 mins so hardly a
vast expense.

Wash jars in hot soapy water, rinse, drain, pack the empty wet jars
standing upright in a roasting tin and put it in the oven. Turn oven on
to 120 C, once it's reached temp 10 mins should do it.

I've never bottled anything and only occasionally make jam.
When making small amounts of jam, I sterilised my jars ( washed,
rinsed and drained) by half-filling them with water and giving them a
few minutes boiling in the microwave. Is this good enough?

Pam in Bristol

A hot wash (& dry) in the hottest setting dishwasher is recommended by
quite a lot of jam makers. I haven't made jam or marmalde for ages but
I used to do that and have never yet poisoned anyone. To keep them at
a heat that wouldn't allow them to crack when filled with hot
marmalade, I put them on a baking tray in the bottom of the Aga but I'm
sure a warm setting on an oven would do the same job.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon

Sterilizing Kilner jars
 

In article ,
Pam Moore wrote:
On Sat, 7 Sep 2013 14:27:51 +0100, Janet wrote:
In article , says...

I was wondering, instead of wasting gas and electricity to sterilize the
jars, if citric acid and sodium bisulphite(as in winemaking sterilization)
would do the trick.

No, but you only need to have the oven on low for 20 mins so hardly a
vast expense.

Wash jars in hot soapy water, rinse, drain, pack the empty wet jars
standing upright in a roasting tin and put it in the oven. Turn oven on
to 120 C, once it's reached temp 10 mins should do it.

I've never bottled anything and only occasionally make jam.
When making small amounts of jam, I sterilised my jars ( washed,
rinsed and drained) by half-filling them with water and giving them a
few minutes boiling in the microwave. Is this good enough?

I (and many other people) don't bother with more than ensuring
that they aren't excessively grubby. Hot jam will kill most of
the heat-sensitive whatsits, and the nasty ones won't grow in
an acid, high-sugar product.

That being said, my strawberry jam (which I cooked lightly to
preserve its freshness) was a little TOO lightly cooked, and
has developed mould on top and fermented somewhat. Big deal.
Both are harmless to humans - and we consume both from choice
(e.g. blue cheese and real beer).


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Sterilizing Kilner jars
 

On 07/09/2013 18:33, sacha wrote:
On 2013-09-07 15:58:40 +0000, Pam Moore said:

On Sat, 7 Sep 2013 14:27:51 +0100, Janet wrote:

In article , says...

I was wondering, instead of wasting gas and electricity to sterilize
the
jars, if citric acid and sodium bisulphite(as in winemaking
sterilization)
would do the trick.

No, but you only need to have the oven on low for 20 mins so hardly a
vast expense.

Wash jars in hot soapy water, rinse, drain, pack the empty wet jars
standing upright in a roasting tin and put it in the oven. Turn oven on
to 120 C, once it's reached temp 10 mins should do it.

I've never bottled anything and only occasionally make jam.
When making small amounts of jam, I sterilised my jars ( washed,
rinsed and drained) by half-filling them with water and giving them a
few minutes boiling in the microwave. Is this good enough?

Pam in Bristol

A hot wash (& dry) in the hottest setting dishwasher is recommended by
quite a lot of jam makers. I haven't made jam or marmalde for ages but
I used to do that and have never yet poisoned anyone. To keep them at a
heat that wouldn't allow them to crack when filled with hot marmalade, I
put them on a baking tray in the bottom of the Aga but I'm sure a warm
setting on an oven would do the same job.

I'm not going to go out to buy a dishwasher just to heat jam jars.
I'm still making jam, though I haven't done any yet this year, also I
make a tomato and apple chutney.
One thing I want to try is instead of lids or papers and covers for the
jars (I've actually been using cling film for the last few years) is to
try candle wag poured on when the jam is still warm/hot it will cap off
the contents.,
The wife who is Canadian tells me that is what her mother used to do.
David @ a now damp side of Swansea Bay, well just 3 or 4 very light
showers so far but a build up of cloud.

Sterilizing Kilner jars
 

On 07/09/2013 13:54, Nick Maclaren wrote:


BUT THE RISK OF DEATH IS *V*E*R*Y* HIGH IF IT DOES HAPPEN.

Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Think you'll find that although that used to be the case, with antitoxin
treatment and intensive care (mainly artificial respiration), it is down
to around 10%, maybe less.

--

Jeff

Sterilizing Kilner jars
 

In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote:

BUT THE RISK OF DEATH IS *V*E*R*Y* HIGH IF IT DOES HAPPEN.

Think you'll find that although that used to be the case, with antitoxin
treatment and intensive care (mainly artificial respiration), it is down
to around 10%, maybe less.

Could well be. I tend to avoid activities with that level of risk
but - hey! - there's no accounting for taste.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Sterilizing Kilner jars
 

"Baz" wrote in message
...
I was wondering, instead of wasting gas and electricity to sterilize the
jars, if citric acid and sodium bisulphite(as in winemaking sterilization)
would do the trick.
I do bottle some things when I have the oven on and cooking.

Thanks
Baz

Sterilising is a very exact term and means the destruction of all life.
Not possible with boiling water.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterili...obiology)#Heat
Using water, sterilisation can only be achieved with low pressure steam
(but more thean atmospheric).


The correct term for what you achieve with boiling water (and chemicals) is
disinfection (only some bacteria are killed).
Plenty can survive boiling water ad infinitum.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disinfection

Sterilizing Kilner jars
 

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
In article , Baz
wrote:

Capitals are regarded as shouting.
Perhaps you can set your keyboard to whispering.
Only joking.

But can I bottle.........
Joking again.

God help me, I am seriously ****ed off with the trolls and just
plain idiots who keep ignoring the simple fact that the vegetables
you want to bottle are non-acid :-(

I don't know exactly what the chances are of a non-gassy,
non-tainting botulinus infection are, but the consequences of one
are likely to be death for anyone eating the result. If I were
bottling vegetables, I would do as we did in the UK in the 1950s
and use pressure. Fruit isn't a problem, and you don't need
pressure.

There were good reasons that most people in the UK up to the
1950s used bottling only for fruit, and preserved vegetables by
salting, drying etc. Pressure bottling is a pain to do, and
constrains the amounts you do and size of bottles.

But it's your life ....


All the above is true.
You could do it by putting your filled jars in a pressure cooker.
You would need to be certain all parts of the contents were heated through.
You would need to be certain they were cool (unpressurised before opening
the pressure cooker.
So even then a bit dodgy.

This is how tinned meats are manufacuted commercially, ie they are sealed in
the tin an cooked in an autoclave at high steam pressure.

Sterilizing Kilner jars
 

On Sat, 07 Sep 2013 20:02:37 +0100, David Hill
wrote:

On 07/09/2013 18:33, sacha wrote:
On 2013-09-07 15:58:40 +0000, Pam Moore said:

On Sat, 7 Sep 2013 14:27:51 +0100, Janet wrote:

In article , says...

I was wondering, instead of wasting gas and electricity to sterilize
the
jars, if citric acid and sodium bisulphite(as in winemaking
sterilization)
would do the trick.

No, but you only need to have the oven on low for 20 mins so hardly a
vast expense.

Wash jars in hot soapy water, rinse, drain, pack the empty wet jars
standing upright in a roasting tin and put it in the oven. Turn oven on
to 120 C, once it's reached temp 10 mins should do it.

I've never bottled anything and only occasionally make jam.
When making small amounts of jam, I sterilised my jars ( washed,
rinsed and drained) by half-filling them with water and giving them a
few minutes boiling in the microwave. Is this good enough?

Pam in Bristol

A hot wash (& dry) in the hottest setting dishwasher is recommended by
quite a lot of jam makers. I haven't made jam or marmalde for ages but
I used to do that and have never yet poisoned anyone. To keep them at a
heat that wouldn't allow them to crack when filled with hot marmalade, I
put them on a baking tray in the bottom of the Aga but I'm sure a warm
setting on an oven would do the same job.

I'm not going to go out to buy a dishwasher just to heat jam jars.
I'm still making jam, though I haven't done any yet this year, also I
make a tomato and apple chutney.
One thing I want to try is instead of lids or papers and covers for the
jars (I've actually been using cling film for the last few years) is to
try candle wag poured on when the jam is still warm/hot it will cap off
the contents.,
The wife who is Canadian tells me that is what her mother used to do.
David @ a now damp side of Swansea Bay, well just 3 or 4 very light
showers so far but a build up of cloud.

I have a jug of hard paraffin wax which I use and reuse on the odd
occasions I make jam. My mother did it as did her mother. I bought it
from a chemist many years ago. I stand the jug in the hot oven for a
while to melt it. When the jars are filled I just pour the melted wax
on top. Make sure the jars are fairly full so the wax isn't below the
rim. It makes a perfect seal in my experience

Pam in Bristol

Sterilizing Kilner jars
 

In article ,
says...

You could do it by putting your filled jars in a pressure cooker.
You would need to be certain all parts of the contents were heated through.

Have you never used a pressure cooker?

You would need to be certain they were cool (unpressurised before opening
the pressure cooker.

Nobody who has ever used a pressure cooker would find it remotely
difficult to depressurise or cool.

So even then a bit dodgy.

Using a pressure cooker is not in the least bit uncertain difficult or
dodgy; just unnecessary in this instance.


http://www.1900s.org.uk/1940s50s-preserving-fruit.htm
http://www.kilnerjar.co.uk/Preserving/guides/how-to-
preserve#.UixMLH8WYuc

Janet

Sterilizing Kilner jars
 

In article , nospamigg1937
@yahoo.co.uk says...

On Sat, 07 Sep 2013 20:02:37 +0100, David Hill
wrote:

I'm not going to go out to buy a dishwasher just to heat jam jars.

No need; you have an oven.

One thing I want to try is instead of lids or papers and covers for
the
jars (I've actually been using cling film for the last few years) is to
try candle wag poured on when the jam is still warm/hot it will cap off
the contents.,

Could be hard (or expensive) to find modern candles which are food
safe.

I have a jug of hard paraffin wax which I use and reuse on the odd

What a faff! I use a waxed paper disc (buy the right size for your
jars) laid wax side down on top of the marmalade while piping hot.
Followed by a screw top lid.

Discs are available from Lakeland; old lids can be cleaned boiled and
re-used, or you can buy new ones online.

Janet

Sterilizing Kilner jars
 

Sterilizing Kilner jars
 

In article , Baz wrote:

Capitals are regarded as shouting.
Perhaps you can set your keyboard to whispering.
Only joking.

But can I bottle.........
Joking again.

God help me, I am seriously ****ed off with the trolls and just
plain idiots who keep ignoring the simple fact that the vegetables
you want to bottle are non-acid :-(

I don't know exactly what the chances are of a non-gassy,
non-tainting botulinus infection are, but the consequences of one
are likely to be death for anyone eating the result. If I were
bottling vegetables, I would do as we did in the UK in the 1950s
and use pressure. Fruit isn't a problem, and you don't need
pressure.

There were good reasons that most people in the UK up to the
1950s used bottling only for fruit, and preserved vegetables by
salting, drying etc. Pressure bottling is a pain to do, and
constrains the amounts you do and size of bottles.

But it's your life ....

Nick, I think that we all respect your scientific knowledge, but many of
us can't understand it!
I think that you expect too much understanding from us of your obvious
knowledge. It is simple to you, but not for us.
I could describe to you how to make a mortice and tenon joint, or how to
replace a crankshaft in any petrol driven engine.
I doubt that you would understsnd any of it without a basic knowledge,
and the skills involved.

You have not made any posting that either deliberately misrepresented
what I said, or ignored the clear, explicit wording in favour of
something that I had obviously not said. So I am not counting you
among the trolls and idiots.

The distinction is NOT between fruit+vegetables and meat+fish, but
between fruit+pickles and all-other-foods. My memory was that the
main danger is from meat+fish, but one of the references posted
informed me that is NOT true and the main danger is from vegetables.
Seriously.

Somewhere in this house, I have a Ministry of Food booklet from the
1940s which describes the preservation of garden produce ("Dig For
Victory" and all that). It describes the bottling of fruit, and
says that bottling vegetables at home should not be attempted, as
it needs to be done under pressure.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Sterilizing Kilner jars
 

On Sun, 8 Sep 2013 11:14:47 +0100, Janet wrote:

I have a jug of hard paraffin wax which I use and reuse on the odd

What a faff!

Quite. And withouta proper lid how do you keep the jam once opened?

I use a waxed paper disc ...

What a faff!

... old lids can be cleaned boiled and re-used,

That's what we do saves having to fish the bit of paper out that
serves no useful purpose IMHO. Check the old lids for damage (dents
or distorted seal) then still boiling jam into hot jars and lid on
straight away. Oven mits essential and there may still be a bit ouch
ouch ouch once you've done a few and the heat is starting to
penetrate the mits...

Note this is jam, high sugar. For low sugar or low acidity stuff you
need do need to take more care, ie above boiling point for "a while"
where "a while" is 10 mins.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Sterilizing Kilner jars
 

On Sun, 8 Sep 2013 12:50:17 +0100 (BST), Nick Maclaren wrote:

Somewhere in this house, I have a Ministry of Food booklet from the
1940s which describes the preservation of garden produce ("Dig For
Victory" and all that). It describes the bottling of fruit, and
says that bottling vegetables at home should not be attempted, as
it needs to be done under pressure.

Were domestic pressure cookers easily available during the war? I
have a feeling that they may have existed before but like a lot of
things disappeared during and only reappeared in the early 50's.

I agree there has been some mis-information in this thread,
bottling/canning really combines several preservation processes
depending on what is being bottled/canned. Broadly these processes
are heat treatment, hermetic sealing and sugar/acidity level.

The heat treatment and sugar acid levels are interrelated in that if
you have high sugar (jams etc) or high acid level (ph4.6 according
to wikipedia) you don't need to have heat treatment above 100C. If
the sugar content is low / acidity ph4.6 then you ought to have
high temperature treatment and the way to do that is in a pressure
vessel of some sort.

Trying to use the food type to define the bottling process required
can lead to an incorrect process being used.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Sterilizing Kilner jars
 

Sterilizing Kilner jars
 

Janet wrote in
t:

In article , nospamigg1937
@yahoo.co.uk says...

On Sat, 07 Sep 2013 20:02:37 +0100, David Hill
wrote:

I'm not going to go out to buy a dishwasher just to heat jam jars.

No need; you have an oven.

One thing I want to try is instead of lids or papers and covers for
the
jars (I've actually been using cling film for the last few years) is
to try candle wag poured on when the jam is still warm/hot it will
cap off the contents.,

Could be hard (or expensive) to find modern candles which are food
safe.

I have a jug of hard paraffin wax which I use and reuse on the odd

What a faff! I use a waxed paper disc (buy the right size for your
jars) laid wax side down on top of the marmalade while piping hot.
Followed by a screw top lid.

Discs are available from Lakeland; old lids can be cleaned boiled
and
re-used, or you can buy new ones online.

Janet




We buy from a charity(Womens Institute) for our jam and marmalade most
times, when my great aunt forgets how to do it, she is getting older now.
They used to sell it with a bit of greaseproof paper and an elastic band
around it.
They are not allowed to sell it like that anymore. I don't think it hurt
anybody. But the law.....insists....
There is nothing nicer, in the preserve world, than a spoon of home made
jam or marmalade.

Baz

Sterilizing Kilner jars
 

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in
ll.co.uk:


Trying to use the food type to define the bottling process required
can lead to an incorrect process being used.


Yes Yes.
I have tried to get to the bottom of this.

Baz

Sterilizing Kilner jars
 

In article ,
lid says...

I'd just like to add that German and Dutch stores sell bottled
vegetables.

I'd just like to add, so do UK supermarkets.

Janet.

Sterilizing Kilner jars
 

On 08/09/13 12:50, Nick Maclaren wrote:

Somewhere in this house, I have a Ministry of Food booklet from the
1940s which describes the preservation of garden produce ("Dig For
Victory" and all that). It describes the bottling of fruit, and
says that bottling vegetables at home should not be attempted, as
it needs to be done under pressure.

As supporting evidence for that...

"Home Preservation of Fruit and Vegetables" by Fish.& Food,Min.of
Agriculture (Jul 1989) isbn 0112428649, first published in 1929

That's an intensely practical book, also giving enough
theory to enable the reader to understand why the practice
has evolved.

It has chapters on jams, jellies, marmalade, fruit cheeses &
butters, mincemeat & other fruit preserves, bottled fruit,
fruit syrups and squashes, vinegars, pickles, chutneys,
ketchup, drying & salting, freezing, storing fruit & vegetables.

(1) botulism is mentioned prominently, with appropriate warnings
(2) some jams, e.g. cherry have added citric/tartaric acid
(3) all the methods for vegetables are freezing or drying or
adding to chutney and marrow jam requires extra acid
(4) THERE ARE NO RECIPES FOR CANNING/BOTTLING VEGETABLES unless
acid or salt are present
(5) pressure cooking: 5lb for bottled fruit, 10lb for jam,
15lb for nothing
(6) despite the book's title, there is relatively little
vegetables - just freeze them or dry them

Sterilizing Kilner jars
 

On 9/8/2013 9:23 AM, Janet wrote:
In article ,
lid says...

I'd just like to add that German and Dutch stores sell bottled
vegetables.

I'd just like to add, so do UK supermarkets.

As do US ones.

Sterilizing Kilner jars
 

In article ,
Tom Gardner wrote:

Somewhere in this house, I have a Ministry of Food booklet from the
1940s which describes the preservation of garden produce ("Dig For
Victory" and all that). It describes the bottling of fruit, and
says that bottling vegetables at home should not be attempted, as
it needs to be done under pressure.

As supporting evidence for that...

"Home Preservation of Fruit and Vegetables" by Fish.& Food,Min.of
Agriculture (Jul 1989) isbn 0112428649, first published in 1929

That's almost certainly an updated version of the same booklet.
Perhaps not even updated very much :-)


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Sterilizing Kilner jars
 

In article o.uk,
Dave Liquorice wrote:

Somewhere in this house, I have a Ministry of Food booklet from the
1940s which describes the preservation of garden produce ("Dig For
Victory" and all that). It describes the bottling of fruit, and
says that bottling vegetables at home should not be attempted, as
it needs to be done under pressure.

Were domestic pressure cookers easily available during the war? I
have a feeling that they may have existed before but like a lot of
things disappeared during and only reappeared in the early 50's.

Dunno. That could well be - they certainly weren't something that
every house had, even in the 1960s.

I agree there has been some mis-information in this thread,
bottling/canning really combines several preservation processes
depending on what is being bottled/canned. Broadly these processes
are heat treatment, hermetic sealing and sugar/acidity level.

The heat treatment and sugar acid levels are interrelated in that if
you have high sugar (jams etc) or high acid level (ph4.6 according
to wikipedia) you don't need to have heat treatment above 100C. If
the sugar content is low / acidity ph4.6 then you ought to have
high temperature treatment and the way to do that is in a pressure
vessel of some sort.

Yes. Or salt, of course.

Trying to use the food type to define the bottling process required
can lead to an incorrect process being used.

Except that virtually all fruit grown in the UK have a fair amount
of acid. Even strawberries have SOME - we don't have any fruit
like bananas or avocados that are grown and eaten, that I can
think of.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Sterilizing Kilner jars
 

In article ,
Tom Gardner wrote:

I forgot to say "Thank you" for posting that data.

Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Sterilizing Kilner jars
 

On 08/09/13 15:27, Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
Tom Gardner wrote:

Somewhere in this house, I have a Ministry of Food booklet from the
1940s which describes the preservation of garden produce ("Dig For
Victory" and all that). It describes the bottling of fruit, and
says that bottling vegetables at home should not be attempted, as
it needs to be done under pressure.

As supporting evidence for that...

"Home Preservation of Fruit and Vegetables" by Fish.& Food,Min.of
Agriculture (Jul 1989) isbn 0112428649, first published in 1929

That's almost certainly an updated version of the same booklet.

From the forward... "In the sixty years since it was first
published by the Long Ashton Research Station[RIP] and MAFF
[it] has been revised and updated on many occasions. Encouraged
and supported by the National Federation of Women's Institutes..."

Perhaps not even updated very much :-)

Freezing is a "modern method" of preservation, and microwave
cookers shouldn't be used for jam, except for softening fruit.

But then how much of this has changed since 1929? The basics
were well understood by then.

Sterilizing Kilner jars
 

On 08/09/13 15:44, Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
Tom Gardner wrote:

I forgot to say "Thank you" for posting that data.

You're welcome - it was my pleasure to re-acquaint
myself with the book. Things like using a trivet (in a
saucepan of hot water) to keep the glass off the
bottom, but if you don't have a trivet then you can
use rolled up newspaper. Really appeals to the "this
is what you are trying to achieve; you can do it via
conventional and unconventional mechanisms" that I
see in the best engineering.

Must try and make some sauerkraut...
(Keep the cabbage at 21C-27C for 2-3 weeks; rats - should
have done it last month!)

Sterilizing Kilner jars
 

"Janet" wrote in message
t...
In article ,
says...

You could do it by putting your filled jars in a pressure cooker.
You would need to be certain all parts of the contents were heated
through.

Have you never used a pressure cooker?

You would need to be certain they were cool (unpressurised before opening
the pressure cooker.

Nobody who has ever used a pressure cooker would find it remotely
difficult to depressurise or cool.

So even then a bit dodgy.

Using a pressure cooker is not in the least bit uncertain difficult or
dodgy; just unnecessary in this instance.


http://www.1900s.org.uk/1940s50s-preserving-fruit.htm
http://www.kilnerjar.co.uk/Preserving/guides/how-to-
preserve#.UixMLH8WYuc

Janet

Clearly you are one that needs to be made aware of the dangers.
If you rapidly depressurise a pressure cooker and there is a closed
container inside, the container may explode due to over pressure and/or
thermal shock.

Sterilizing Kilner jars
 

"harryagain" wrote in
:


"Janet" wrote in message
t...
In article ,
says...

You could do it by putting your filled jars in a pressure cooker.
You would need to be certain all parts of the contents were heated
through.

Have you never used a pressure cooker?

You would need to be certain they were cool (unpressurised before
opening the pressure cooker.

Nobody who has ever used a pressure cooker would find it remotely
difficult to depressurise or cool.

So even then a bit dodgy.

Using a pressure cooker is not in the least bit uncertain difficult
or
dodgy; just unnecessary in this instance.


http://www.1900s.org.uk/1940s50s-preserving-fruit.htm
http://www.kilnerjar.co.uk/Preserving/guides/how-to-
preserve#.UixMLH8WYuc

Janet

Clearly you are one that needs to be made aware of the dangers.
If you rapidly depressurise a pressure cooker and there is a closed
container inside, the container may explode due to over pressure
and/or thermal shock.



Careful here!
Janet is the expert on everything. It likes to think so, but nope it is a
dope.

Baz

Sterilizing Kilner jars
 

In article ,
says...

"Janet" wrote in message
t...
In article ,
says...

You could do it by putting your filled jars in a pressure cooker.
You would need to be certain all parts of the contents were heated
through.

Have you never used a pressure cooker?

You would need to be certain they were cool (unpressurised before opening
the pressure cooker.

Nobody who has ever used a pressure cooker would find it remotely
difficult to depressurise or cool.

So even then a bit dodgy.

Using a pressure cooker is not in the least bit uncertain difficult or
dodgy; just unnecessary in this instance.


http://www.1900s.org.uk/1940s50s-preserving-fruit.htm
http://www.kilnerjar.co.uk/Preserving/guides/how-to-
preserve#.UixMLH8WYuc

Janet

Clearly you are one that needs to be made aware of the dangers.
If you rapidly depressurise a pressure cooker and there is a closed
container inside, the container may explode due to over pressure and/or
thermal shock.

Who said "rapidly depressurise a pressure cooker"?
Take it off the heat. Do nothing. That's how easy it is.
The pressure cooker will depressurise all by itself.

Janet

Sterilizing Kilner jars
 

On Sun, 8 Sep 2013 20:41:55 +0100, Janet wrote:

Clearly you are one that needs to be made aware of the dangers.
If you rapidly depressurise a pressure cooker and there is a
closed
container inside, the container may explode due to over pressure
and/or
thermal shock.

If a closed container in a pressure cooker hasn't already exploded...

AIUI the containers are not sealed until they have been through the
high temperature/pressure process and cooled to be accessable at room
pressure.

Any lids etc also need to have gone through the high temp/pressure so
presumably they are loosely fitted to keep most of the water/steam
out of the product and tightly fitted whilst everything is still very
hot.

Who said "rapidly depressurise a pressure cooker"?
Take it off the heat. Do nothing. That's how easy it is.
The pressure cooker will depressurise all by itself.

Once you take the weights off... Will the pressure drop to
atmospheric in a sensible time scale once removed from the heat and
weights left on? I guess you let it cool 'till it stops hissing from
the weights then keep trying to lift the weights without it blowing
too much, FSVO "too much" steam out.

I've no great experience of pressure cookers, My Mum didn't like 'em
so we never had one at home.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Sterilizing Kilner jars
 

In article o.uk,
says...

On Sun, 8 Sep 2013 20:41:55 +0100, Janet wrote:


Who said "rapidly depressurise a pressure cooker"?
Take it off the heat. Do nothing. That's how easy it is.
The pressure cooker will depressurise all by itself.

Once you take the weights off... Will the pressure drop to
atmospheric in a sensible time scale once removed from the heat and
weights left on?

Yes. A few minutes; not hours .

I guess you let it cool 'till it stops hissing from
the weights then keep trying to lift the weights without it blowing
too much, FSVO "too much" steam out.

If I DO want the PC to depressurise quickly, I take it off the heat
and slip a knife point through the ring on the weight and tilt it,
which releases steam fast. Once it stops hissing you lift off the weight
and can open the lid.

Janet.

Sterilizing Kilner jars
 

On 9/9/2013 4:01 PM, Martin wrote:
On Mon, 9 Sep 2013 18:07:35 +0100, Janet wrote:

If I DO want the PC to depressurise quickly, I take it off the heat
and slip a knife point through the ring on the weight and tilt it,
which releases steam fast. Once it stops hissing you lift off the weight
and can open the lid.

I use a fork or put the pressure cooker in the sink and run cold water
over it.

My doesn't have weights, but it does have a quick-release setting.