In article ,
Peter Robinson wrote:
Ian Jackson wrote:

A 60 foot ash tree (just outside the end of my back garden) was suddenly
killed by ivy.

One spring, it had just started to come into leaf, when I noticed they
were withering. I found that the ivy which had been growing up it had
got under the bark (a few feet off the ground), and lifted it -
effectively ring-barking it.

I have never ring barked a tree, but if I did shouldn't I expect it to
sprout vigorously from the base as if coppiced? If you cut down an ash
and leave the stump, it will definitely do that. This does not convince
me the ivy was at fault.

Not all trees will do that, but ash will. As people said, it is very
unlikely indeed that the ivy killed the tree - while it can happen,
it could not possibly get under ash bark (which is very 'tight') and
lift it. There are a zillion fungal, bacterial and similar diseases
that show up as lifting bark.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In message , Nick Maclaren
writes
In article ,
Peter Robinson wrote:
Ian Jackson wrote:

A 60 foot ash tree (just outside the end of my back garden) was suddenly
killed by ivy.

One spring, it had just started to come into leaf, when I noticed they
were withering. I found that the ivy which had been growing up it had
got under the bark (a few feet off the ground), and lifted it -
effectively ring-barking it.

I have never ring barked a tree, but if I did shouldn't I expect it to
sprout vigorously from the base as if coppiced? If you cut down an ash
and leave the stump, it will definitely do that. This does not convince
me the ivy was at fault.

Not all trees will do that, but ash will. As people said, it is very
unlikely indeed that the ivy killed the tree - while it can happen,
it could not possibly get under ash bark (which is very 'tight') and
lift it.

Well, the bark WAS lifted, and the ivy WAS growing under it. Of course,
it's possible that the bark had been 'mechanically' damaged - but the
tree was rather inaccessible, and I can't think of anything that would
have done it.

There are a zillion fungal, bacterial and similar diseases
that show up as lifting bark.

Yes, it could have been - but I'm sure the ivy did the main killing.

However, at the time, both trees were growing well. At one time, both
had been at least 50' high, and then were lopped to around 30'. After
that, their growth went absolutely berserk, and soon both were back to
at least their original height.

And then, as I said, one suddenly started wilting soon after coming into
leaf. Its mate (about 25' away) continued alone (minus the ivy, on which
I made a pre-emptive strike) - and it is now 65 - maybe 70 - feet high.

The dead ash was cut down (I now recall it was 2003), and its stump was
left around 6' high. It has shown no signs of sprouting. After a couple
of years, where its roots extended into my garden, there was a
considerable growth of large clumps of orange mushrooms. As I had
various bushes nearby, I thought it would be wise to discourage it in
future (Weedol worked well), and these days I only get the odd mushroom
or two.






--
Ian

Ian Jackson wrote:

The dead ash was cut down (I now recall it was 2003), and its stump was
left around 6' high. It has shown no signs of sprouting. After a couple
of years, where its roots extended into my garden, there was a
considerable growth of large clumps of orange mushrooms. As I had
various bushes nearby, I thought it would be wise to discourage it in
future (Weedol worked well), and these days I only get the odd mushroom
or two.

Are you saying you used Weedol to control the mushrooms?

Peter

In message , Peter Robinson
writes
Ian Jackson wrote:

The dead ash was cut down (I now recall it was 2003), and its stump was
left around 6' high. It has shown no signs of sprouting. After a couple
of years, where its roots extended into my garden, there was a
considerable growth of large clumps of orange mushrooms. As I had
various bushes nearby, I thought it would be wise to discourage it in
future (Weedol worked well), and these days I only get the odd mushroom
or two.

Are you saying you used Weedol to control the mushrooms?

Yes. I gave them a quick spray, and they soon started to shrivel-up.
Next day, they were totally wrecked. The following year, there were far
fewer - and rarely any since then.

Or am I doing the wrong thing by inhibiting the natural decomposition of
the ash root system - which, of course, is considerable?
--
Ian

In message , Chris Hogg
writes
On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 10:46:34 +0100, Ian Jackson
wrote:

In message , Peter Robinson
writes
Ian Jackson wrote:

The dead ash was cut down (I now recall it was 2003), and its stump was
left around 6' high. It has shown no signs of sprouting. After a couple
of years, where its roots extended into my garden, there was a
considerable growth of large clumps of orange mushrooms. As I had
various bushes nearby, I thought it would be wise to discourage it in
future (Weedol worked well), and these days I only get the odd mushroom
or two.

Are you saying you used Weedol to control the mushrooms?

Yes. I gave them a quick spray, and they soon started to shrivel-up.
Next day, they were totally wrecked. The following year, there were far
fewer - and rarely any since then.

Or am I doing the wrong thing by inhibiting the natural decomposition of
the ash root system - which, of course, is considerable?

Sounds to me like your ash tree was killed by Armillaria (Honey
fungus), which can cause sudden failure, lesions in the bark around
the base of the tree (which the ivy then invaded), followed by
fruiting bodies (honey-coloured toadstools) in the autumn.

Honey fungus killed the tree, not ivy.

Indeed the mushrooms/toadstools were/are almost certainly the result of
honey fungus. But was it not a 'chicken-and-egg' situation? As I
understand it, honey fungus often takes over dead roots, and is very
difficult to get rid of. The other ash (minus the ivy) never has shown
any signs of being affected. [But see below.]

The fungus spreads through the soil, attacking and invading roots of
shrubs and trees. Have you had any other plants nearby mysteriously
die, for no obvious reason?

The following year, a couple of spindly cypress trees (maybe 10' tall)
immediately where the toadstools appeared (ie encompassed by the root
system of the dead ash) did die. I'm sure it was the honey fungus - but
they had always been weakly things because the ash tree and its mate
both shaded the area, and stole all the moisture. Other similar trees
(which line my side of the back garden fence) have always had a hard
time, and rarely put on much new growth (not like your average
cypress!).


--
Ian

In article ,
Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Chris Hogg
writes

The dead ash was cut down (I now recall it was 2003), and its stump was
left around 6' high. It has shown no signs of sprouting. After a couple
of years, where its roots extended into my garden, there was a
considerable growth of large clumps of orange mushrooms. As I had
various bushes nearby, I thought it would be wise to discourage it in
future (Weedol worked well), and these days I only get the odd mushroom
or two.

Are you saying you used Weedol to control the mushrooms?

Yes. I gave them a quick spray, and they soon started to shrivel-up.
Next day, they were totally wrecked. The following year, there were far
fewer - and rarely any since then.

Or am I doing the wrong thing by inhibiting the natural decomposition of
the ash root system - which, of course, is considerable?

There are several Weedols, but I have no idea how they would behave
on fungi. It is relatively unlikely that spraying the fruiting bodies
had much effect on the mycelium, so the reduction is probably just
the natural life cycle of the fungus.

Sounds to me like your ash tree was killed by Armillaria (Honey
fungus), which can cause sudden failure, lesions in the bark around
the base of the tree (which the ivy then invaded), followed by
fruiting bodies (honey-coloured toadstools) in the autumn.

Honey fungus killed the tree, not ivy.

Indeed the mushrooms/toadstools were/are almost certainly the result of
honey fungus. But was it not a 'chicken-and-egg' situation? As I
understand it, honey fungus often takes over dead roots, and is very
difficult to get rid of. The other ash (minus the ivy) never has shown
any signs of being affected. [But see below.]

As he said. There are many strains of it, some of which are almost
entirely saprophytic and others of which are aggressively pathogenic.
It is extremely common for the latter to kill the tree before the
first fruiting bodies appear - often a few years before.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In message , Nick Maclaren
writes



There are several Weedols, but I have no idea how they would behave
on fungi.

I forgot to mention that WD40 also works well!





--
Ian