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Plant IDs, anyone?
Hello folks: can anyone identify two plants that are currently
prospering in our garden? I hope you can see them at https://photos.app.goo.gl/5Ebgj4oWNHEwXkdi9 Plant A is as you can see about as tall as my wife, who is 5'4". The leaf is alongside. Personally I think it's an evening primrose that's too late for its season. OTOH, the leaves are also reminiscent of a teazel, but without a prickle in sight. Plant B: again, as tall as my wife. She thinks it's a dahlia, gone mad because it's missed its season (or perhaps because of the excessive drinking it has been forced to do this year). It's not in "the dahlia bed", because we don't have a dahlia bed: my wife likes to "just bung 'em in where she finds a space", hence she wouldn't be surprised if it is a dahlia. Neither plant has the faintest signs of buds let alone flowers. Cheers! John (and wife) |
Plant IDs, anyone?
On 18/10/19 17:14, Another John wrote:
Hello folks: can anyone identify two plants that are currently prospering in our garden? I hope you can see them at https://photos.app.goo.gl/5Ebgj4oWNHEwXkdi9 Plant A is as you can see about as tall as my wife, who is 5'4". The leaf is alongside. Personally I think it's an evening primrose that's too late for its season. OTOH, the leaves are also reminiscent of a teazel, but without a prickle in sight. Plant B: again, as tall as my wife. She thinks it's a dahlia, gone mad because it's missed its season (or perhaps because of the excessive drinking it has been forced to do this year). It's not in "the dahlia bed", because we don't have a dahlia bed: my wife likes to "just bung 'em in where she finds a space", hence she wouldn't be surprised if it is a dahlia. Neither plant has the faintest signs of buds let alone flowers. Cheers! John (and wife) Plant A is not a teasel. As you point out, there are no prickles on the stem. Also, the lateral veins on the leaves are opposite; with a teasel they are alternate. Plant B could well be a member of the daisy family (Asteraceae). To me it seems to be something like an Echinacea, but I could well be wrong. SRH will be along shortly with the right ID! -- Jeff |
Plant IDs, anyone?
On 2019-10-18, Another John wrote:
Hello folks: can anyone identify two plants that are currently prospering in our garden? I hope you can see them at https://photos.app.goo.gl/5Ebgj4oWNHEwXkdi9 Plant A is as you can see about as tall as my wife, who is 5'4". The leaf is alongside. Personally I think it's an evening primrose that's too late for its season. OTOH, the leaves are also reminiscent of a teazel, but without a prickle in sight. Plant B: again, as tall as my wife. She thinks it's a dahlia, gone mad because it's missed its season (or perhaps because of the excessive drinking it has been forced to do this year). It's not in "the dahlia bed", because we don't have a dahlia bed: my wife likes to "just bung 'em in where she finds a space", hence she wouldn't be surprised if it is a dahlia. Neither plant has the faintest signs of buds let alone flowers. Plant A certainly looks as if it could be Evening Primrose |
Plant IDs, anyone?
On 18/10/2019 18:30, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 18/10/19 17:14, Another John wrote: Hello folks: can anyone identify two plants that are currently prospering in our garden?Â* I hope you can see them at https://photos.app.goo.gl/5Ebgj4oWNHEwXkdi9 Plant A is as you can see about as tall as my wife, who is 5'4". The leaf is alongside.Â* Personally I think it's an evening primrose that's too late for its season. OTOH, the leaves are also reminiscent of a teazel, but without a prickle in sight. Plant B: again, as tall as my wife. She thinks it's a dahlia, gone mad because it's missed its season (or perhaps because of the excessive drinking it has been forced to do this year).Â*Â*Â* It's not in "the dahlia bed", because we don't have a dahlia bed: my wife likes to "just bung 'em in where she finds a space", hence she wouldn't be surprised if it is a dahlia. Neither plant has the faintest signs of buds let alone flowers. Cheers! John (and wife) Plant A is not a teasel. As you point out, there are no prickles on the stem. Also, the lateral veins on the leaves are opposite; with a teasel they are alternate. Plant B could well be a member of the daisy family (Asteraceae). To me it seems to be something like an Echinacea, but I could well be wrong. SRH will be along shortly with the right ID! Not this time. (Surely there's still someone better on garden plants than me here?) Plant A is not an evening primrose - plant A has opposite foliage, and evening primroses have alternate foliage. (More generally it didn't jump out to me as an evening primrose - wrong type of hairiness and so on - but phyllotaxis is a nice qualitative character to confirm that.) With the sessile (amplexicaule? auriculate?) opposite leaves teasel looks closer, but as noted there are no prickles, and the shape of the plant is wrong - the branches are far too spreading. I wondered about a Buddleja sapling, but Buddleja leaves taper to the base. The foliage looks quite distinctive - it may that it will be obvious in hindsight when someone puts a name to it. Plant B, with its narrow leaflets, reminds me of Bidens, but it's much too big for Bidens tripartita. Possibly Bidens frondrosa could get that big, but I'd be looking for a tall horticultural Bidens (as opposed to the bedding plants). However the plant looks likely to be family Asteraceae, subfamily Asteroideae, supertribe Helianthodae, but that covers a lot of ground. |
Plant IDs, anyone?
OP here ...
Stewart, and Jeff, and Jim wrote [various things -- much appreciated, so far, folks!] https://photos.app.goo.gl/5Ebgj4oWNHEwXkdi9 I would add that you can't really appreciate the fleshiness of the stem of Plant A (which had me leaning towards evening primrose), and I would point out the bronze stems of Plant B which, again, may not be especially obvious in those photos. Both plants are very proliferous in their foliage, as well as height. I didn't actually realise, before, but you can enlarge the photos (didn't notice the magnifying glass, top right when you've clicked on a photo). Finally: hmm - we _do_ feed the birds a lot: rogue bird seeds? John |
Plant IDs, anyone?
On 18/10/2019 22:07, Another John wrote:
OP here ... Stewart, and Jeff, and Jim wrote [various things -- much appreciated, so far, folks!] https://photos.app.goo.gl/5Ebgj4oWNHEwXkdi9 I would add that you can't really appreciate the fleshiness of the stem of Plant A (which had me leaning towards evening primrose), and I would point out the bronze stems of Plant B which, again, may not be especially obvious in those photos. Both plants are very proliferous in their foliage, as well as height. I didn't actually realise, before, but you can enlarge the photos (didn't notice the magnifying glass, top right when you've clicked on a photo). Finally: hmm - we _do_ feed the birds a lot: rogue bird seeds? John If the second plant is a member of the dahlia family, some species then it could be that it wouldnt flower till Nov, but there should be signs of flower buds forming by now. |
Plant IDs, anyone?
On 18 Oct 2019 17:14, Another John wrote:
Hello folks: can anyone identify two plants that are currently prospering in our garden? I hope you can see them at https://photos.app.goo.gl/5Ebgj4oWNHEwXkdi9 Plant A is as you can see about as tall as my wife, who is 5'4". The leaf is alongside. Personally I think it's an evening primrose that's too late for its season. OTOH, the leaves are also reminiscent of a teazel, but without a prickle in sight. Plant B: again, as tall as my wife. She thinks it's a dahlia, gone mad because it's missed its season (or perhaps because of the excessive drinking it has been forced to do this year). It's not in "the dahlia bed", because we don't have a dahlia bed: my wife likes to "just bung 'em in where she finds a space", hence she wouldn't be surprised if it is a dahlia. Neither plant has the faintest signs of buds let alone flowers. I think the first one is Great Willowherb, Epilobium hirsutum -- Regards Bob Hobden |
Plant IDs, anyone?
On 18/10/2019 22:07, Another John wrote:
OP here ... Stewart, and Jeff, and Jim wrote [various things -- much appreciated, so far, folks!] https://photos.app.goo.gl/5Ebgj4oWNHEwXkdi9 I would add that you can't really appreciate the fleshiness of the stem of Plant A (which had me leaning towards evening primrose), and I would point out the bronze stems of Plant B which, again, may not be especially obvious in those photos. Both plants are very proliferous in their foliage, as well as height. I didn't actually realise, before, but you can enlarge the photos (didn't notice the magnifying glass, top right when you've clicked on a photo). Finally: hmm - we _do_ feed the birds a lot: rogue bird seeds? That's a useful hint. Plant A looks too hairy for Guizotia abyssinica, but there's a rare relative by the name of Guizotia scabra. Is the plant sticky? John |
Plant IDs, anyone?
On 18/10/2019 22:44, Bob Hobden wrote:
On 18 Oct 2019 17:14, Another John wrote: Hello folks: can anyone identify two plants that are currently prospering in our garden? I hope you can see them at https://photos.app.goo.gl/5Ebgj4oWNHEwXkdi9 Plant A is as you can see about as tall as my wife, who is 5'4". The leaf is alongside. Personally I think it's an evening primrose that's too late for its season. OTOH, the leaves are also reminiscent of a teazel, but without a prickle in sight. Plant B: again, as tall as my wife. She thinks it's a dahlia, gone mad because it's missed its season (or perhaps because of the excessive drinking it has been forced to do this year). It's not in "the dahlia bed", because we don't have a dahlia bed: my wife likes to "just bung 'em in where she finds a space", hence she wouldn't be surprised if it is a dahlia. Neither plant has the faintest signs of buds let alone flowers. I think the first one is Great Willowherb, Epilobium hirsutum I think I would have recognised Great Willowherb, but on first glance it wasn't as easy as I thought it would be to say why it wasn't - take a closer look at the leaf venation patterns. -- SRH |
Plant IDs, anyone?
On 18/10/19 23:59, Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:
Finally: hmm - we _do_ feed the birds a lot: rogue bird seeds? That's a useful hint. Plant A looks too hairy for Guizotia abyssinica, but there's a rare relative by the name of Guizotia scabra. Is the plant sticky? Now you can see why I said you'd soon be along to ID it! :-) Some years ago I used some spare Niger/Nyjer seed as a quick-growing plant for composting. I must say that "quick-growing" doesn't do it justice! Even growing on top of a weed-proof membrane under a 5 cm "mulch" of 2 - 3 cm pebbles it got to almost 2 metres in a couple of months. The strange thing is that I'd been feeding Niger to the birds for several years, but don't remember ever seeing it grow before. Had that earlier seed been treated (gamma radiated, perhaps) to sterilise it? -- Jeff |
Plant IDs, anyone?
In article ,
Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote: That's a useful hint. Plant A looks too hairy for Guizotia abyssinica, but there's a rare relative by the name of Guizotia scabra. Is the plant sticky? I didn't look carefully, but the first plant looked a bit like Nicotinia alata, though that would have flowered. And that's sticky and hairy! Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
Plant IDs, anyone?
On 19/10/2019 09:36, Nick Maclaren wrote:
I didn't look carefully, but the first plant looked a bit like Nicotinia alata, though that would have flowered. And that's sticky and hairy! Wrong leaf venation, I think. -- SRH |
Plant IDs, anyone?
On 19 Oct 2019 00:05, Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:
On 18/10/2019 22:44, Bob Hobden wrote: On 18 Oct 2019 17:14, Another John wrote: Hello folks: can anyone identify two plants that are currently prospering in our garden? I hope you can see them at https://photos.app.goo.gl/5Ebgj4oWNHEwXkdi9 Plant A is as you can see about as tall as my wife, who is 5'4". The leaf is alongside. Personally I think it's an evening primrose that's too late for its season. OTOH, the leaves are also reminiscent of a teazel, but without a prickle in sight. Plant B: again, as tall as my wife. She thinks it's a dahlia, gone mad because it's missed its season (or perhaps because of the excessive drinking it has been forced to do this year). It's not in "the dahlia bed", because we don't have a dahlia bed: my wife likes to "just bung 'em in where she finds a space", hence she wouldn't be surprised if it is a dahlia. Neither plant has the faintest signs of buds let alone flowers. I think the first one is Great Willowherb, Epilobium hirsutum I think I would have recognised Great Willowherb, but on first glance it wasn't as easy as I thought it would be to say why it wasn't - take a closer look at the leaf venation patterns. Yes there is a difference, however that plant is growing in a cultivated situation, probably high nitrogen as it hasn't flowered yet, so that may account for the difference. -- Regards Bob Hobden |
Plant IDs, anyone?
On Friday, October 18, 2019 at 5:14:09 PM UTC+1, Another John wrote:
Hello folks: can anyone identify two plants that are currently prospering in our garden? I hope you can see them at https://photos.app.goo.gl/5Ebgj4oWNHEwXkdi9 Plant A is as you can see about as tall as my wife, who is 5'4". The leaf is alongside. Personally I think it's an evening primrose that's too late for its season. OTOH, the leaves are also reminiscent of a teazel, but without a prickle in sight. Plant B: again, as tall as my wife. She thinks it's a dahlia, gone mad because it's missed its season (or perhaps because of the excessive drinking it has been forced to do this year). It's not in "the dahlia bed", because we don't have a dahlia bed: my wife likes to "just bung 'em in where she finds a space", hence she wouldn't be surprised if it is a dahlia. Neither plant has the faintest signs of buds let alone flowers. Cheers! John (and wife) Have they just "Arrived" or did you deliberately plant them? Plant A reminds me of the tall Calceolaria here although they seem hairier than your mystery plant |
Plant IDs, anyone?
On 20/10/2019 10:43, Another John wrote:
In article , wrote: On Friday, October 18, 2019 at 5:14:09 PM UTC+1, Another John wrote: Hello folks: can anyone identify two plants that are currently prospering in our garden? I hope you can see them at https://photos.app.goo.gl/5Ebgj4oWNHEwXkdi9 Plant A is as you can see about as tall as my wife, who is 5'4". The leaf is alongside. Personally I think it's an evening primrose that's too late for its season. OTOH, the leaves are also reminiscent of a teazel, but without a prickle in sight. Plant B: again, as tall as my wife. She thinks it's a dahlia, gone mad because it's missed its season (or perhaps because of the excessive drinking it has been forced to do this year). It's not in "the dahlia bed", because we don't have a dahlia bed: my wife likes to "just bung 'em in where she finds a space", hence she wouldn't be surprised if it is a dahlia. Neither plant has the faintest signs of buds let alone flowers. Cheers! John (and wife) Have they just "Arrived" or did you deliberately plant them? Plant A reminds me of the tall Calceolaria here although they seem hairier than your mystery plant Hi Charlie, They "just arrived", and we didn't notice them until September, when they started edging above everything around them. Having looked at various calceolaria at your suggestion: no, not one of them. Great Rosebay Willow Herb seems to be the closest so far, suggested by Bob, but there's no sign whatever of flowers. I'd lover to know what Plant B is! I've never seen anything like it: foliage very dahlia-like, but so tall, and it's as wide as it's tall. Cheers John Several species dahlias will grow to 8ft or more. |
Plant IDs, anyone?
Another John wrote:
can anyone identify two plants While we're doing mystery plants, any thoughts on this low growing one? http://andyburns.uk/misc/mystery_plant.jpg Reminds me of a land-loving version of Samphire ... |
Plant IDs, anyone?
On 20/10/2019 17:09, Andy Burns wrote:
Another John wrote: can anyone identify two plants While we're doing mystery plants, any thoughts on this low growing one? http://andyburns.uk/misc/mystery_plant.jpg Reminds me of a land-loving version of Samphire ... Sedum acre - has little yellow flowers. -- SRH |
Plant IDs, anyone?
Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:
Andy Burns wrote: http://andyburns.uk/misc/mystery_plant.jpg Sedum acre - has little yellow flowers. Thanks, not seen it in flower, wiki says it struggles to outcompete other plants, but it seems to be doing a very good job of outcompeting most things on cleared ground ... |
Plant IDs, anyone?
In article ,
Andy Burns wrote: Another John wrote: can anyone identify two plants While we're doing mystery plants, any thoughts on this low growing one? http://andyburns.uk/misc/mystery_plant.jpg Reminds me of a land-loving version of Samphire ... Sedum, but I am not sure which. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
Plant IDs, anyone?
In article ,
Andy Burns wrote: Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote: Andy Burns wrote: http://andyburns.uk/misc/mystery_plant.jpg Sedum acre - has little yellow flowers. Thanks, not seen it in flower, wiki says it struggles to outcompete other plants, but it seems to be doing a very good job of outcompeting most things on cleared ground ... It thrives on seriously poor ground that doesn't hold water, where most plants don't. It's a bit like my Cyclamen coum, which has (with very little assistance) formed a monoculture in a bed that is under the eaves of my house. Neither will do that if there is any serious competition from faster-growing plants. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
Plant IDs, anyone?
Nick Maclaren wrote:
Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote: Sedum acre It thrives on seriously poor ground that doesn't hold water, where most plants don't. The area in question is gravelly/sandy and very free draining, topsoil will need to be brought in at some point |
Plant IDs, anyone?
On 18/10/2019 22:07, Another John wrote:
OP here ... Stewart, and Jeff, and Jim wrote [various things -- much appreciated, so far, folks!] https://photos.app.goo.gl/5Ebgj4oWNHEwXkdi9 I would add that you can't really appreciate the fleshiness of the stem of Plant A (which had me leaning towards evening primrose), and I would point out the bronze stems of Plant B which, again, may not be especially obvious in those photos. Both plants are very proliferous in their foliage, as well as height. And presumably volunteers that just appeared in the garden from seed. My initial guess for the left hand one was a poke weed but the leaf veins are not quite right. Life would be made so much easier if you could persuade either of them to flower. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytol...e_Pokeweed.jpg It will flower in the UK and sometimes comes in with the birds. I didn't actually realise, before, but you can enlarge the photos (didn't notice the magnifying glass, top right when you've clicked on a photo). Finally: hmm - we _do_ feed the birds a lot: rogue bird seeds? Quite likely the question is which component of the mix. -- Regards, Martin Brown |
Plant IDs, anyone?
In article ,
Martin Brown wrote: On 18/10/2019 22:07, Another John wrote: OP here ... Stewart, and Jeff, and Jim wrote [various things -- much appreciated, so far, folks!] https://photos.app.goo.gl/5Ebgj4oWNHEwXkdi9 I would add that you can't really appreciate the fleshiness of the stem of Plant A (which had me leaning towards evening primrose), and I would point out the bronze stems of Plant B which, again, may not be especially obvious in those photos. Both plants are very proliferous in their foliage, as well as height. And presumably volunteers that just appeared in the garden from seed. My initial guess for the left hand one was a poke weed but the leaf veins are not quite right. Life would be made so much easier if you could persuade either of them to flower. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytol...ature_Pokeweed .jpg It will flower in the UK and sometimes comes in with the birds. I didn't actually realise, before, but you can enlarge the photos (didn't notice the magnifying glass, top right when you've clicked on a photo). Finally: hmm - we _do_ feed the birds a lot: rogue bird seeds? Quite likely the question is which component of the mix. Thanks Martin - I thought you were on t something there when I saw the first picture of pokeweed, with its purple stalks ... but it's not that. Thank goodness! Sounds like a right nasty plant -- I like this bit from the Wikipedia entry : "The leaves and stems of very young plants can both be eaten, but must be cooked, usually boiled three times in fresh water each time." It always gives me pause for thought, to reflect that for most of human history, people have eaten (had to eat) whatever they could find ... and that some poor sods found out the hard way how their descendants needed to prepare certain foods! The hunt goes on: I had another look at the blighters today, and No: not a sign of buds on either, and so they're going to kick the bucket in the next few weeks without ever having told us us what they are! John |
Plant IDs, anyone?
On 21/10/2019 17:59, Another John wrote:
In article , Martin Brown wrote: On 18/10/2019 22:07, Another John wrote: OP here ... Stewart, and Jeff, and Jim wrote [various things -- much appreciated, so far, folks!] https://photos.app.goo.gl/5Ebgj4oWNHEwXkdi9 I would add that you can't really appreciate the fleshiness of the stem of Plant A (which had me leaning towards evening primrose), and I would point out the bronze stems of Plant B which, again, may not be especially obvious in those photos. Both plants are very proliferous in their foliage, as well as height. And presumably volunteers that just appeared in the garden from seed. My initial guess for the left hand one was a poke weed but the leaf veins are not quite right. Life would be made so much easier if you could persuade either of them to flower. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytol...ature_Pokeweed .jpg It will flower in the UK and sometimes comes in with the birds. I didn't actually realise, before, but you can enlarge the photos (didn't notice the magnifying glass, top right when you've clicked on a photo). Finally: hmm - we _do_ feed the birds a lot: rogue bird seeds? Quite likely the question is which component of the mix. Thanks Martin - I thought you were on t something there when I saw the first picture of pokeweed, with its purple stalks ... but it's not that. Thank goodness! Sounds like a right nasty plant -- I like this bit from the Wikipedia entry : "The leaves and stems of very young plants can both be eaten, but must be cooked, usually boiled three times in fresh water each time." It always gives me pause for thought, to reflect that for most of human history, people have eaten (had to eat) whatever they could find ... and that some poor sods found out the hard way how their descendants needed to prepare certain foods! The hunt goes on: I had another look at the blighters today, and No: not a sign of buds on either, and so they're going to kick the bucket in the next few weeks without ever having told us us what they are! John Just a note. If the second one is a type of species Dahlia then it may NOT have tubers, some varieties just have fleshy roots, but after the first frost I would cut it back and lift it carefully to store somewhere frost free. Who knows next year it may flower and supprise us all. |
Plant IDs, anyone?
On 21/10/2019 18:46, David Hill wrote:
On 21/10/2019 17:59, Another John wrote: In article , Â* Martin Brown wrote: On 18/10/2019 22:07, Another John wrote: OP here ... Â*Â* Stewart, and Jeff, and Jim wrote [various things -- much appreciated, so far, folks!] https://photos.app.goo.gl/5Ebgj4oWNHEwXkdi9 I would add that you can't really appreciate the fleshiness of the stem of Plant AÂ* (which had me leaning towards evening primrose), and I would point out the bronze stems of Plant B which, again, may not be especially obvious in those photos. Both plants are very proliferous in their foliage, as well as height. And presumably volunteers that just appeared in the garden from seed. My initial guess for the left hand one was a poke weed but the leaf veins are not quite right. Life would be made so much easier if you could persuade either of them to flower. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytol...ature_Pokeweed .jpg It will flower in the UK and sometimes comes in with the birds. I didn't actually realise, before, but you can enlarge the photos (didn't notice the magnifying glass, top right when you've clicked on a photo). Finally: hmm - we _do_ feed the birds a lot: rogue bird seeds? Quite likely the question is which component of the mix. Thanks Martin - I thought you were on t something there when I saw the first picture of pokeweed, with its purple stalks ... but it's not that. Thank goodness!Â* Sounds like a right nasty plant -- I like this bit from the Wikipedia entry : "The leaves and stems of very young plants can both be eaten, but must be cooked, usually boiled three times in fresh water each time."Â*Â*Â*Â* It always gives me pause for thought, to reflect that for most of human history, people have eaten (had to eat)Â* whatever they could find ... and that some poor sods found out the hard way how their descendants needed to prepare certain foods! The hunt goes on: I had another look at the blighters today, and No: not a sign of buds on either, and so they're going to kick the bucket in the next few weeks without ever having told us us what they are! John Just a note. If the second one is a type of species Dahlia then it may NOT have tubers, some varieties just have fleshy roots, but after the first frost I would cut it back and lift it carefully to store somewhere frost free. Who knows next year it may flower and supprise us all. Not realy related but I found this clip of interest and a form of dahlia I had never heard sbout before https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klR3SFK48PQ |
Plant IDs, anyone?
On 21/10/2019 17:59, Another John wrote:
In article , Martin Brown wrote: On 18/10/2019 22:07, Another John wrote: OP here ... Stewart, and Jeff, and Jim wrote [various things -- much appreciated, so far, folks!] https://photos.app.goo.gl/5Ebgj4oWNHEwXkdi9 I would add that you can't really appreciate the fleshiness of the stem of Plant A (which had me leaning towards evening primrose), and I would point out the bronze stems of Plant B which, again, may not be especially obvious in those photos. Both plants are very proliferous in their foliage, as well as height. And presumably volunteers that just appeared in the garden from seed. My initial guess for the left hand one was a poke weed but the leaf veins are not quite right. Life would be made so much easier if you could persuade either of them to flower. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytol...ature_Pokeweed .jpg It will flower in the UK and sometimes comes in with the birds. I didn't actually realise, before, but you can enlarge the photos (didn't notice the magnifying glass, top right when you've clicked on a photo). Finally: hmm - we _do_ feed the birds a lot: rogue bird seeds? Quite likely the question is which component of the mix. Thanks Martin - I thought you were on t something there when I saw the first picture of pokeweed, with its purple stalks ... but it's not that. Thank goodness! Sounds like a right nasty plant -- I like this bit from the Wikipedia entry : "The leaves and stems of very young plants can both be eaten, but must be cooked, usually boiled three times in fresh water each time." It always gives me pause for thought, to reflect that for most of human history, people have eaten (had to eat) whatever they could find ... and that some poor sods found out the hard way how their descendants needed to prepare certain foods! It isn't all that bad and is quite ornamental. I got one spontaneously appear in my garden when I lived in Belgium. It even set seed so I could keep on growing it. Not at all invasive and quite a bit less toxic than some of the other exotics that I like to grow. My local specialist plant nursery Dark Star plants has it in their mostly black (or dark red) plants selection in the walled garden at East Rounton. It flowers most years and sets seed but it prefers warmer summers than the UK can usually offer (last year was exceptional). The hunt goes on: I had another look at the blighters today, and No: not a sign of buds on either, and so they're going to kick the bucket in the next few weeks without ever having told us us what they are! You could try putting fleece over them when a frost is predicted and hope that they do get to flowering size this year. Or rescue any tubers and/or mulch heavily in the hope of keeping them over the winter. Maybe something like a cloche over them to keep the rain off as well. We probably would get it ID'd if only there was a flower! -- Regards, Martin Brown |
Plant IDs, anyone?
In article ,
David Hill wrote: Just a note. If the second one is a type of species Dahlia then it may NOT have tubers, some varieties just have fleshy roots, but after the first frost I would cut it back and lift it carefully to store somewhere frost free. Who knows next year it may flower and supprise us all. Yep -- we fully intend to dig it up carefully when the time comes! Interesting about the non-tuber varieties -- we'll remember that! Not realy related but I found this clip of interest and a form of dahlia I had never heard sbout before https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klR3SFK48PQ Also interesting - mesmerising in fact, with that accent, and that music! :-) John |
Plant IDs, anyone?
In article ,
Martin Brown wrote: The hunt goes on: I had another look at the blighters today, and No: not a sign of buds on either, and so they're going to kick the bucket in the next few weeks without ever having told us us what they are! You could try putting fleece over them when a frost is predicted and hope that they do get to flowering size this year. Or rescue any tubers and/or mulch heavily in the hope of keeping them over the winter. Maybe something like a cloche over them to keep the rain off as well. We probably would get it ID'd if only there was a flower! Thanks for the encouragement! I will report back if/when we get to know anything new! John |
Plant IDs, anyone?
On 18/10/2019 17:14, Another John wrote:
Hello folks: can anyone identify two plants that are currently prospering in our garden? I hope you can see them at https://photos.app.goo.gl/5Ebgj4oWNHEwXkdi9 Plant A is as you can see about as tall as my wife, who is 5'4". The leaf is alongside. Personally I think it's an evening primrose that's too late for its season. OTOH, the leaves are also reminiscent of a teazel, but without a prickle in sight. Plant B: again, as tall as my wife. She thinks it's a dahlia, gone mad because it's missed its season (or perhaps because of the excessive drinking it has been forced to do this year). It's not in "the dahlia bed", because we don't have a dahlia bed: my wife likes to "just bung 'em in where she finds a space", hence she wouldn't be surprised if it is a dahlia. Neither plant has the faintest signs of buds let alone flowers. Cheers! John (and wife) I know it should have flowered by now but could the first be some form of Inula? |
Plant IDs, anyone?
In article ,
Martin Brown wrote: On 21/10/2019 17:59, Another John wrote: Thanks Martin - I thought you were on t something there when I saw the first picture of pokeweed, with its purple stalks ... but it's not that. Thank goodness! Sounds like a right nasty plant -- I like this bit from the Wikipedia entry : "The leaves and stems of very young plants can both be eaten, but must be cooked, usually boiled three times in fresh water each time." It always gives me pause for thought, to reflect that for most of human history, people have eaten (had to eat) whatever they could find ... and that some poor sods found out the hard way how their descendants needed to prepare certain foods! It isn't all that bad and is quite ornamental. I got one spontaneously appear in my garden when I lived in Belgium. It even set seed so I could keep on growing it. Not at all invasive and quite a bit less toxic than some of the other exotics that I like to grow. Yes - people get uptight about a few poisonous plants, but there are generally more poisonous ones that they ignore, and they aren't really much of a risk, anyway. Laburnum is generally ignored, but is one of the worst, as its seeds look exactly like mung beans. I did get twitchy when someone brought a small child when I was growing Gloriosa rothschildiana, though .... Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
Plant IDs, anyone?
On 22/10/2019 09:39, Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article , Martin Brown wrote: On 21/10/2019 17:59, Another John wrote: Thanks Martin - I thought you were on t something there when I saw the first picture of pokeweed, with its purple stalks ... but it's not that. Thank goodness! Sounds like a right nasty plant -- I like this bit from the Wikipedia entry : "The leaves and stems of very young plants can both be eaten, but must be cooked, usually boiled three times in fresh water each time." It always gives me pause for thought, to reflect that for most of human history, people have eaten (had to eat) whatever they could find ... and that some poor sods found out the hard way how their descendants needed to prepare certain foods! It isn't all that bad and is quite ornamental. I got one spontaneously appear in my garden when I lived in Belgium. It even set seed so I could keep on growing it. Not at all invasive and quite a bit less toxic than some of the other exotics that I like to grow. Yes - people get uptight about a few poisonous plants, but there are generally more poisonous ones that they ignore, and they aren't really much of a risk, anyway. Laburnum is generally ignored, but is one of the worst, as its seeds look exactly like mung beans. I did get twitchy when someone brought a small child when I was growing Gloriosa rothschildiana, though .... When I visited the Poison Garden at Alnwick Castle there was one plant that I couldn't abide being near. Henbane aka Hyoscamus niger. I could smell the toxin in the air from its flowers and it was unpleasant. (better than toothache I suppose if you were desperate) http://www.thepoisongarden.co.uk/ato...amus_niger.htm At least with Daturas and Brugsmanias the flowers usually smell gorgeous even if the bruised stems smell terrible. It had been a bad wet summer so several of the more interesting semitropical specimens were dead mouldering brown stems. Best visited in late summer after a long warm spell to see the most developed plants. -- Regards, Martin Brown |
Plant IDs, anyone?
In article ,
Martin Brown wrote: When I visited the Poison Garden at Alnwick Castle there was one plant that I couldn't abide being near. Henbane aka Hyoscamus niger. I could smell the toxin in the air from its flowers and it was unpleasant. (better than toothache I suppose if you were desperate) http://www.thepoisongarden.co.uk/ato...amus_niger.htm At least with Daturas and Brugsmanias the flowers usually smell gorgeous even if the bruised stems smell terrible. It had been a bad wet summer so several of the more interesting semitropical specimens were dead mouldering brown stems. Best visited in late summer after a long warm spell to see the most developed plants. Gloriosa doesn't smell significantly, but it is SERIOUSLY poisonous, much worse than anything that is naturalised in the UK, and I didn't know if a single leaf or flower could kill a child. The main UK problem comes from contact poisons getting in eyes or on sensitive skin, but we have nothing compared to the manchineel. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
Plant IDs, anyone?
On 22/10/19 12:49, Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article , Martin Brown wrote: When I visited the Poison Garden at Alnwick Castle there was one plant that I couldn't abide being near. Henbane aka Hyoscamus niger. I could smell the toxin in the air from its flowers and it was unpleasant. (better than toothache I suppose if you were desperate) http://www.thepoisongarden.co.uk/ato...amus_niger.htm At least with Daturas and Brugsmanias the flowers usually smell gorgeous even if the bruised stems smell terrible. It had been a bad wet summer so several of the more interesting semitropical specimens were dead mouldering brown stems. Best visited in late summer after a long warm spell to see the most developed plants. Gloriosa doesn't smell significantly, but it is SERIOUSLY poisonous, much worse than anything that is naturalised in the UK, and I didn't know if a single leaf or flower could kill a child. I've grown it for years, and have never detected any scent. All the reports of poisoning I've read about have followed ingestion of the rhizomes. There are many comments about all parts of it being toxic, but I haven't been able to find details of the levels of colchicine in the leaves. I don't understand your comment about it being "much worse than anything naturalised in the UK". If we try to compare like with like, then surely we should be comparing it with anything growable in the UK, even in a tropical house. That opens the field to many very poisonous plants. But even if limited to those which can grow and survive outside in the UK, what about Colchicum?! It's exactly the same as far as possible poisoning is concerned, with the same active principle. We can also include other plants such as Aconitum, Veratrum, Convallaria, Digitalis, and others with cardiac glycosides. If we include other classes, we come to Ricinus and other polypeptide poisons (including Abrus if we return to tropical plants). So the field is pretty wide. Perhaps the unique thing about colchicine is that, as far as I am aware, in it's mode of action it is in a class of its own. The main UK problem comes from contact poisons getting in eyes or on sensitive skin, but we have nothing compared to the manchineel. But that is tropical too. Perhaps the best comparison with something that /could/ grow in the UK would be the plants which contain urushiol; those are the North American "Poison" plants - oak, ivy, and sumac. If you want to consider other very nasty touch-sensitive tropical plants you needn't look further than Dendrocnide moroides. -- Jeff |
Plant IDs, anyone?
In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote: Gloriosa doesn't smell significantly, but it is SERIOUSLY poisonous, much worse than anything that is naturalised in the UK, and I didn't know if a single leaf or flower could kill a child. I've grown it for years, and have never detected any scent. All the reports of poisoning I've read about have followed ingestion of the rhizomes. There are many comments about all parts of it being toxic, but I haven't been able to find details of the levels of colchicine in the leaves. Nor me, but I was referring to small children (infants) and did NOT want a death from that cause, or even a sick child. As I said, I didn't know how toxic the leaves and flowers are. I don't understand your comment about it being "much worse than anything naturalised in the UK". If we try to compare like with like, then surely we should be comparing it with anything growable in the UK, even in a tropical house. That opens the field to many very poisonous plants. But even if limited to those which can grow and survive outside in the UK, what about Colchicum?! It's exactly the same as far as possible poisoning is concerned, with the same active principle. We can also include other plants such as Aconitum, Veratrum, Convallaria, Digitalis, and others with cardiac glycosides. If we include other classes, we come to Ricinus and other polypeptide poisons (including Abrus if we return to tropical plants). So the field is pretty wide. Perhaps the unique thing about colchicine is that, as far as I am aware, in it's mode of action it is in a class of its own. My understanding is that, in terms of concentrations, Gloriosa tubers are significantly worse than those. I could be wrong, but my sources seemed fairly reliable. The point is that, allergies and damage to mucous membranes aside, any plant found 'in the wild' in the UK can be handled and even tasted without serious risk of death or permanent injury. The same is not true for tropical plants, including those grown in conservatories, greenhouses etc. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
Plant IDs, anyone?
On 22/10/19 16:32, Nick Maclaren wrote:
Nor me, but I was referring to small children (infants) and did NOT want a death from that cause, or even a sick child. As I said, I didn't know how toxic the leaves and flowers are. That's fair enough, and a sensible precaution. What I don't understand with adults poisoning themselves with Gloriosa, particularly with the rhizomes, is that where the taste of colchicine is concerned, it is said to be "very bitter". How anyone could fail to notice that I find hard to comprehend. In general, bitterness is often a sign of toxicity and a guide to direct the consumer elsewhere. -- Jeff |
Plant IDs, anyone?
In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote: What I don't understand with adults poisoning themselves with Gloriosa, particularly with the rhizomes, is that where the taste of colchicine is concerned, it is said to be "very bitter". How anyone could fail to notice that I find hard to comprehend. In general, bitterness is often a sign of toxicity and a guide to direct the consumer elsewhere. I believe that most cases are murder, so it would be in something to disguise the taste. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
Plant IDs, anyone?
On 22/10/2019 16:32, Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article , The point is that, allergies and damage to mucous membranes aside, any plant found 'in the wild' in the UK can be handled and even tasted without serious risk of death or permanent injury. The same is not true for tropical plants, including those grown in conservatories, greenhouses etc. I think hemlock (Conium maculatum) might be a bit borderline in this respect and it is quite common in suitably damp hedgerows in season. It seems to follow the loathsome oilseed rape around somehow. Colchicums are also naturalised in places and pretty toxic. -- Regards, Martin Brown |
Plant IDs, anyone?
In article ,
Martin Brown wrote: The point is that, allergies and damage to mucous membranes aside, any plant found 'in the wild' in the UK can be handled and even tasted without serious risk of death or permanent injury. The same is not true for tropical plants, including those grown in conservatories, greenhouses etc. I think hemlock (Conium maculatum) might be a bit borderline in this respect and it is quite common in suitably damp hedgerows in season. It seems to follow the loathsome oilseed rape around somehow. No, though it is claimed to be. I looked it up, and you need more than a taste to kill yourself. Colchicums are also naturalised in places and pretty toxic. I believe the same applies here. The point is that toxins cost the plant a lot of energy to produce, so are more evolutionarily effective for tropical plants. Fungi have a very different kind of metabolism. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
Plant IDs, anyone?
On 24/10/2019 18:58, Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article , Martin Brown wrote: The point is that, allergies and damage to mucous membranes aside, any plant found 'in the wild' in the UK can be handled and even tasted without serious risk of death or permanent injury. The same is not true for tropical plants, including those grown in conservatories, greenhouses etc. I think hemlock (Conium maculatum) might be a bit borderline in this respect and it is quite common in suitably damp hedgerows in season. It seems to follow the loathsome oilseed rape around somehow. No, though it is claimed to be. I looked it up, and you need more than a taste to kill yourself. I think that is also true of Amanita Phalloides (aka destroying angel/death cap) too - snag is it apparently tastes rather good. LD50 is about half a mushroom. I have eaten the Amanita Caesarea in Italy and it is excellent if a little unnerving to eat a safe member of such a toxic class of fungi. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanita_caesarea Colchicums are also naturalised in places and pretty toxic. I believe the same applies here. Probably although I don't fancy trying it. Lovely flowers this time of year and trouble free. The point is that toxins cost the plant a lot of energy to produce, so are more evolutionarily effective for tropical plants. Fungi have a very different kind of metabolism. A good heuristic I was taught in jungles is that milky sap is usually dangerous and clear sap might well be potable (there are exceptions). Lettuce is the obvious counterexample of common UK vegetables. Certainly true that in places where there is serious water stress and or grazing the plants have evolved astonishingly sophisticated chemical weapons. Fortunately very few have mastered organofluorine chemistry - things like gifblaar in the Transvaal and some others in Australia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dichapetalum_cymosum Of the succulent plants some Tylecodons are wear gloves when handling and some of the nastier toxic Euphorbias gloves, goggles or face mask. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tylecodon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euphorbia_virosa http://pza.sanbi.org/euphorbia-virosa The latter is a handsome plant when small and I have grown it in the past with red new spine pairs and bright green body. Not for novices. It is slightly surprising that we can safely eat soya given how disruptive the hormone mimics in it are to rodent reproduction. https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...nes-genistein/ Most of the things we associate as interesting tastes and narcotic effects are actually natural insecticides, fungicides or sunscreens. -- Regards, Martin Brown |
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