In article ,
Malcolm wrote:

You're just weird, you are! Where, please, do I say anything about it
giving "VASTLY more powers"? I can't see any words of mine like that so
why do you claim that I have written them, or even implied them?

Because the 1971 Act does not give local authorities powers to control
things like garden walls and sheds. You are claiming that the 1997
(Scotland) Act does. That IS "VASTLY more powers".

What I have pointed out is that there is a 1997 planning act in Scotland
which, by virtue of its date, its geographic scope and the fact that it
was passed by the devolved Scottish parliament, is significantly more
relevant than the 1971 Act which you quoted. Doubly so as the 1971 Act
has a Scotland version, the 1972 Act, which is specifically repealed by
the 1997 Act.

You are also claiming that the ONLY people who can give advice are
the local authority. For that to be true, they would have to have
powers to control the developments in question. If they don't have,
then ANYONE who knows the 1997 Act can say "Build away. If they
hassle you, tell them to bugger off."

Your presumptions are, as usual, unwarranted.

Err, no, I don't think so. I know you are a (self-professed) expert in a
wide diversity of subjects but somehow I doubt whether the operation of
Scottish local authority planning departments or Scottish planning law
is among them. I don't pretend to expertise, but at least I have some
personal experience of both.

Your presumption that I was basing my statements on English court
cases is unwarranted. For example, I have received Email from several
Scottish residents about their hassles with planning authorities and,
in some cases, the difference between the law as written and the law
as interpreted by them.

But, and it seems one has to return to this point, he *still* *has* to
contact his local authority planning department if he wants *any* advice
on what he is or is not permitted to do specifically in Aberdeen.
Offering advice (or background) based on the situation in England either
now or 30 years ago is not going to help him.

Twaddle. If the local authority planning department has no powers
to restrict what he can do, then he does not need to contact them
for advice or anything else. Even if it does, he can get advice
from anyone who knows the situation, whether via uk.legal or by
paying a lawyer.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"BAC" wrote in message
...

"Alan Holmes" wrote in message
...

"Chris Stewart" wrote in message
...
Hi,
We have a six foot high wooden fence at the end of our garden in
not
so
sunny Aberdeen. I want to replace the fence with a breeze block wall.
Two
questions:-
a) what height of wall can you build without needing planning
permission?

Don't know, but:-

b) can I build a lean-to greenhouse/shed without planning permission?

Yes


Quite right, absence of planning consent doesn't actually prevent one from
doing anything. It's the risk of enforcement action likely to be taken if
you 'transgress' which does that.

If worried that what one has in mind might require consent, the simplest
answer, as has already been suggested, is to have an informal chat with a
duty officer at your local planning authority.

A person might also check the title documents to see whether anything
enforceable runs with the land to limit the right to erect outbuildings.



Thanks chaps and chappesses, obviously I need to talk to the local planners.
No need to get aerated about the subject, though - if you don't know, then
that's fine. I only asked!

Chris S

"Chris Stewart" wrote in message
...

"BAC" wrote in message
...

"Alan Holmes" wrote in message
...

"Chris Stewart" wrote in message
...
Hi,
We have a six foot high wooden fence at the end of our garden in
not
so
sunny Aberdeen. I want to replace the fence with a breeze block
wall.
Two
questions:-
a) what height of wall can you build without needing planning
permission?

Don't know, but:-

b) can I build a lean-to greenhouse/shed without planning
permission?

Yes


Quite right, absence of planning consent doesn't actually prevent one
from
doing anything. It's the risk of enforcement action likely to be taken
if
you 'transgress' which does that.

If worried that what one has in mind might require consent, the simplest
answer, as has already been suggested, is to have an informal chat with
a
duty officer at your local planning authority.

A person might also check the title documents to see whether anything
enforceable runs with the land to limit the right to erect outbuildings.



Thanks chaps and chappesses, obviously I need to talk to the local
planners.
No need to get aerated about the subject, though - if you don't know, then
that's fine. I only asked!


Sorry about the argument. I expect your planners will give you all the
guidance you need, hopefully the go ahead to get on with what you have in
mind. If not, you might be wise to consult a professional planning
consultant, since getting planners to change their mind can be a lengthy and
costly business.

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...

In article ,
"BAC" writes:
| "Malcolm" wrote in message
| ...
|
| Why bother with another newsgroup which, whatever its collective
wisdom
| in legal matters, is highly unlikely to be able to give you the
| authoritative *local* information regarding walls and sheds in
Aberdeen
| that you can get from visiting or phoning your local authority
planning
| department?
|
| It is they, and they alone, who can tell you exactly what you want to
| know. Not only that, but you should receive an immediate answer
| precisely focussed on your particular local enquiry, without having
to
| wait for, and then sift, the responses on the newsgroup.
|
| Quite right - advice from a legal newsgroup would cut little ice with
an
| enforcement officer, should one appear on the doorstep at some future
| juncture, or with a future buyers' lawyers should you try to sell a
house
| without the relevant consent or a 'letter of comfort' from the LPA. The
| local planning authority actually employs people to advise members of
the
| public on questions like the one concerned.

Well, they may be helpful, but they may merely tell you what they want
you to think. There is no comeback on them if they tell you completely
bogus information, intended to make you think that you have fewer
rights than you do, if that is their policy. There are several local
authorities that are notorious for abusing their powers, and a far
greater number that are thoroughly confused (for which I don't blame
them).
Furthermore, if you check up with the relevant legislation etc., you
will find that almost the only location that has significant LOCAL
regulations is Greater London. Almost everywhere else, the local
variations are simply up to the how the local authority interprets
the vague and obscure legislation. In some cases, they have the
power to turn such interpretations into law; in other cases, they
don't; in the majority of cases, nobody knows if they do or not,
because no relevant dispute has reached the House of Lords :-(

It is worth asking them what THEIR view is, but it is assuredly worth
checking up if it doesn't match what you want to do. This newsgroup
and uk.legal are good starts.

Of course it is worth asking them what their view is, because it is their
view they would be likely to act on. If their view is not the one desired,
then by all means take further advice, but I would suggest use of a
professional planning consultant.


In this particular case, I have a copy of only the 1971 Act at home,
but I believe that the relevant rules have not changed. There is
nothing about garden walls or garden sheds, and my information is
that the courts generally agree that they do NOT need planning
permission unless they have services. What they may need is BUILDING
permission and/or the go-ahead of the local Highways Authority (if
they are near a road).

All recent planning legislation, both Acts and SI's, is published on the Web
by HMSO.

Another useful source is http://www.gardenlaw.co.uk/walls.html
where they express the opinion that PP is needed to build walls over 2 m
height (1 m if on highway boundary) plus advise one should contact one's LPA
before erecting a boundary fence or wall.
Don't know whether that applies to Aberdeen, if it were me, I'd ring and ask
them.

The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:

In London, there are by-laws on the height of walls. It is unclear
whether other local authorities have the power to pass such by-laws,
especially since their emasculation during the Thatcher years. If
they don't have, then any such by-laws that they HAVE made will be
void. But you won't get told that by the local authority!

Perth Council has a very definitive policy WRT the height of fences.
If a fence is too high, the householder is told to get it taken down
in height, or remove it.

I just wish they had the same policy WRT leylandii hedges!

--
AnneJ
ICQ #:- 119531282

In article , Peter Crosland
writes

uk.legal would be a good place to ask this.

Perhaps not because Scotland has a different legal framework. Go and talk to
your local planners who will tell the facts including any local
peculiarities.

Oh, is Scotland no longer in the uk then?

Jon
--
E-mail bouncing? Make sure your mailer is set to 'plain text' and not 'html'.

In article , Peter Crosland
writes

uk.legal would be a good place to ask this.

Perhaps not because Scotland has a different legal framework. Go and talk to
your local planners who will tell the facts including any local
peculiarities.

Oh, is Scotland no longer in the uk then?

Jon
--
E-mail bouncing? Make sure your mailer is set to 'plain text' and not 'html'.

Subject: Planning permission - Lean-to Greenhouse/shed
From: Jon Rouse
Date: 03/06/2003 21:32 GMT Daylight Time
Message-id:

In article , Peter Crosland
writes

uk.legal would be a good place to ask this.

Perhaps not because Scotland has a different legal framework. Go and talk to
your local planners who will tell the facts including any local
peculiarities.

Oh, is Scotland no longer in the uk then?


We can but dream...
****************************
Rhiannon
http://www.members.aol.com/mddestiny/entrypage.html
ClipclopclipclopBANGBANGclipclopclip
-- Amish driveby shooting