Hi,
We have a six foot high wooden fence at the end of our garden in not so
sunny Aberdeen. I want to replace the fence with a breeze block wall. Two
questions:-
a) what height of wall can you build without needing planning permission?
b) can I build a lean-to greenhouse/shed without planning permission?
I would intend it to run the full length of the new wall.
Thanks in advance,
Chris S

The message
from "Chris Stewart" contains these words:

Hi,
We have a six foot high wooden fence at the end of our garden in not so
sunny Aberdeen. I want to replace the fence with a breeze block wall. Two
questions:-
a) what height of wall can you build without needing planning permission?
b) can I build a lean-to greenhouse/shed without planning permission?
I would intend it to run the full length of the new wall.

I don't know about Aberdeen, but you can't build *anything* "permanent"
in Perth without planning permission.

--
AnneJ
ICQ #:- 119531282

"Chris Stewart" wrote in message
...
Hi,
We have a six foot high wooden fence at the end of our garden in not
so
sunny Aberdeen. I want to replace the fence with a breeze block wall. Two
questions:-
a) what height of wall can you build without needing planning permission?
b) can I build a lean-to greenhouse/shed without planning permission?

uk.legal would be a good place to ask this.

Marcus

uk.legal would be a good place to ask this.

Perhaps not because Scotland has a different legal framework. Go and talk to
your local planners who will tell the facts including any local
peculiarities.

"Chris Stewart" wrote in message
...
Hi,
We have a six foot high wooden fence at the end of our garden in not
so
sunny Aberdeen. I want to replace the fence with a breeze block wall. Two
questions:-
a) what height of wall can you build without needing planning permission?

Don't know, but:-

b) can I build a lean-to greenhouse/shed without planning permission?

Yes

Alan
--
Reply to alan(at)windsor-berks(dot)freeserve(dot)co(dot)uk

The message
from "Chris Stewart" contains these words:

Hi,
We have a six foot high wooden fence at the end of our garden in not so
sunny Aberdeen. I want to replace the fence with a breeze block wall. Two
questions:-
a) what height of wall can you build without needing planning permission?
b) can I build a lean-to greenhouse/shed without planning permission?

Why not just phone the local planning/building control office and ask
their advice? That's what we've always done, and found them very
helpful; it's free up to date and accurate.

Areas aften have different restrictions on garden structures; it's
quite possible to not require PP or to conform to BC, but be limited by
title deeds or feu superiors.

Janet.

"Marcus Fox" wrote in
message ...

"Chris Stewart" wrote in message
...
Hi,
We have a six foot high wooden fence at the end of our garden in not
so
sunny Aberdeen. I want to replace the fence with a breeze block wall.
Two
questions:-
a) what height of wall can you build without needing planning
permission?
b) can I build a lean-to greenhouse/shed without planning permission?

uk.legal would be a good place to ask this.

Marcus


What a sensible chap - I'll do just that.
Thanks Marcus

Chris S

The message
from "Alan Holmes" contains these words:


b) can I build a lean-to greenhouse/shed without planning permission?

Yes

However, in Scotland, even when you don't need PP, Building Control
have regulations about whereabouts on your land they can be located, in
relation to your "building line" and neighbouring boundaries; and some
feu superiorities have similar tight conditions.

Janet.

"Alan Holmes" wrote in message
...

"Chris Stewart" wrote in message
...
Hi,
We have a six foot high wooden fence at the end of our garden in not
so
sunny Aberdeen. I want to replace the fence with a breeze block wall.
Two
questions:-
a) what height of wall can you build without needing planning
permission?

Don't know, but:-

b) can I build a lean-to greenhouse/shed without planning permission?

Yes


Quite right, absence of planning consent doesn't actually prevent one from
doing anything. It's the risk of enforcement action likely to be taken if
you 'transgress' which does that.

If worried that what one has in mind might require consent, the simplest
answer, as has already been suggested, is to have an informal chat with a
duty officer at your local planning authority.

A person might also check the title documents to see whether anything
enforceable runs with the land to limit the right to erect outbuildings.

In article , Chris
Stewart writes

"Marcus Fox" wrote in
message ...

"Chris Stewart" wrote in message
...
Hi,
We have a six foot high wooden fence at the end of our garden in not
so
sunny Aberdeen. I want to replace the fence with a breeze block wall.
Two
questions:-
a) what height of wall can you build without needing planning
permission?
b) can I build a lean-to greenhouse/shed without planning permission?

uk.legal would be a good place to ask this.

What a sensible chap - I'll do just that.

Why bother with another newsgroup which, whatever its collective wisdom
in legal matters, is highly unlikely to be able to give you the
authoritative *local* information regarding walls and sheds in Aberdeen
that you can get from visiting or phoning your local authority planning
department?

It is they, and they alone, who can tell you exactly what you want to
know. Not only that, but you should receive an immediate answer
precisely focussed on your particular local enquiry, without having to
wait for, and then sift, the responses on the newsgroup.

--
Malcolm

"Malcolm" wrote in message
...

In article , Chris
Stewart writes

"Marcus Fox" wrote in
message ...

"Chris Stewart" wrote in message
...
Hi,
We have a six foot high wooden fence at the end of our garden in
not
so
sunny Aberdeen. I want to replace the fence with a breeze block wall.
Two
questions:-
a) what height of wall can you build without needing planning
permission?
b) can I build a lean-to greenhouse/shed without planning permission?

uk.legal would be a good place to ask this.

What a sensible chap - I'll do just that.

Why bother with another newsgroup which, whatever its collective wisdom
in legal matters, is highly unlikely to be able to give you the
authoritative *local* information regarding walls and sheds in Aberdeen
that you can get from visiting or phoning your local authority planning
department?

It is they, and they alone, who can tell you exactly what you want to
know. Not only that, but you should receive an immediate answer
precisely focussed on your particular local enquiry, without having to
wait for, and then sift, the responses on the newsgroup.


Quite right - advice from a legal newsgroup would cut little ice with an
enforcement officer, should one appear on the doorstep at some future
juncture, or with a future buyers' lawyers should you try to sell a house
without the relevant consent or a 'letter of comfort' from the LPA. The
local planning authority actually employs people to advise members of the
public on questions like the one concerned.

In article ,
"BAC" writes:
| "Malcolm" wrote in message
| ...
|
| Why bother with another newsgroup which, whatever its collective wisdom
| in legal matters, is highly unlikely to be able to give you the
| authoritative *local* information regarding walls and sheds in Aberdeen
| that you can get from visiting or phoning your local authority planning
| department?
|
| It is they, and they alone, who can tell you exactly what you want to
| know. Not only that, but you should receive an immediate answer
| precisely focussed on your particular local enquiry, without having to
| wait for, and then sift, the responses on the newsgroup.
|
| Quite right - advice from a legal newsgroup would cut little ice with an
| enforcement officer, should one appear on the doorstep at some future
| juncture, or with a future buyers' lawyers should you try to sell a house
| without the relevant consent or a 'letter of comfort' from the LPA. The
| local planning authority actually employs people to advise members of the
| public on questions like the one concerned.

Well, they may be helpful, but they may merely tell you what they want
you to think. There is no comeback on them if they tell you completely
bogus information, intended to make you think that you have fewer
rights than you do, if that is their policy. There are several local
authorities that are notorious for abusing their powers, and a far
greater number that are thoroughly confused (for which I don't blame
them).

Furthermore, if you check up with the relevant legislation etc., you
will find that almost the only location that has significant LOCAL
regulations is Greater London. Almost everywhere else, the local
variations are simply up to the how the local authority interprets
the vague and obscure legislation. In some cases, they have the
power to turn such interpretations into law; in other cases, they
don't; in the majority of cases, nobody knows if they do or not,
because no relevant dispute has reached the House of Lords :-(

It is worth asking them what THEIR view is, but it is assuredly worth
checking up if it doesn't match what you want to do. This newsgroup
and uk.legal are good starts.

In this particular case, I have a copy of only the 1971 Act at home,
but I believe that the relevant rules have not changed. There is
nothing about garden walls or garden sheds, and my information is
that the courts generally agree that they do NOT need planning
permission unless they have services. What they may need is BUILDING
permission and/or the go-ahead of the local Highways Authority (if
they are near a road).

In London, there are by-laws on the height of walls. It is unclear
whether other local authorities have the power to pass such by-laws,
especially since their emasculation during the Thatcher years. If
they don't have, then any such by-laws that they HAVE made will be
void. But you won't get told that by the local authority!

I doubt that the above clarifies anything :-(


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article , Nick Maclaren
writes

In article ,
"BAC" writes:
| "Malcolm" wrote in message
| ...
|
| Why bother with another newsgroup which, whatever its collective wisdom
| in legal matters, is highly unlikely to be able to give you the
| authoritative *local* information regarding walls and sheds in Aberdeen
| that you can get from visiting or phoning your local authority planning
| department?
|
| It is they, and they alone, who can tell you exactly what you want to
| know. Not only that, but you should receive an immediate answer
| precisely focussed on your particular local enquiry, without having to
| wait for, and then sift, the responses on the newsgroup.
|
| Quite right - advice from a legal newsgroup would cut little ice with an
| enforcement officer, should one appear on the doorstep at some future
| juncture, or with a future buyers' lawyers should you try to sell a house
| without the relevant consent or a 'letter of comfort' from the LPA. The
| local planning authority actually employs people to advise members of the
| public on questions like the one concerned.

Well, they may be helpful, but they may merely tell you what they want
you to think. There is no comeback on them if they tell you completely
bogus information, intended to make you think that you have fewer
rights than you do, if that is their policy. There are several local
authorities that are notorious for abusing their powers, and a far
greater number that are thoroughly confused (for which I don't blame
them).

Furthermore, if you check up with the relevant legislation etc., you
will find that almost the only location that has significant LOCAL
regulations is Greater London. Almost everywhere else, the local
variations are simply up to the how the local authority interprets
the vague and obscure legislation. In some cases, they have the
power to turn such interpretations into law; in other cases, they
don't; in the majority of cases, nobody knows if they do or not,
because no relevant dispute has reached the House of Lords :-(

It is worth asking them what THEIR view is, but it is assuredly worth
checking up if it doesn't match what you want to do. This newsgroup
and uk.legal are good starts.

In this particular case, I have a copy of only the 1971 Act at home,
but I believe that the relevant rules have not changed. There is
nothing about garden walls or garden sheds, and my information is
that the courts generally agree that they do NOT need planning
permission unless they have services. What they may need is BUILDING
permission and/or the go-ahead of the local Highways Authority (if
they are near a road).

In London, there are by-laws on the height of walls. It is unclear
whether other local authorities have the power to pass such by-laws,
especially since their emasculation during the Thatcher years. If
they don't have, then any such by-laws that they HAVE made will be
void. But you won't get told that by the local authority!

I doubt that the above clarifies anything :-(

No, I don't think it does, in the slightest! The more especially as the
questioner lives in Aberdeen and planning is a devolved matter in
Scotland so information about what happens in Greater London, or indeed
happened in the Thatcher years, doesn't really help him very much.

Aberdeen City Council, which was only formed in 1996, will no doubt be
able to advise on planning regulations operating, as it does, under the
Town and Country Planning (Scotland) Act 1997, which repealed the Town
and Country Planning (Scotland) Act 1972, which in turn was the Scottish
version of the Town and Country Planning Act 1971 from which you quoted.

Therefore, the answer *has* to come from the local planning department,
while asking questions on newsgroups will not (indeed almost certainly
cannot) produce the same definitive answer, however "bogus" you might
think it could be based on your apparent experience of, presumably
English, local authorities and regardless of decisions made by,
presumably English, courts, neither of which are relevant in this
instance.

--
Malcolm

In article ,
Malcolm wrote:

No, I don't think it does, in the slightest! The more especially as the
questioner lives in Aberdeen and planning is a devolved matter in
Scotland so information about what happens in Greater London, or indeed
happened in the Thatcher years, doesn't really help him very much.

It provides background to why your response is unreliable. You may
not regard that as help, but he might.

Aberdeen City Council, which was only formed in 1996, will no doubt be
able to advise on planning regulations operating, as it does, under the
Town and Country Planning (Scotland) Act 1997, which repealed the Town
and Country Planning (Scotland) Act 1972, which in turn was the Scottish
version of the Town and Country Planning Act 1971 from which you quoted.

Would you like to quote the relevant section of the 1997 Act that gives
local authorities powers to make regulations? If not, why not provide
SOME hint as to why you are saying that it gives VASTLY more powers
to them than the 1971 Act does?

I am saying that I have been told by a fairly reliable source that
it does not. My source have been wrong, or I may have misunderstood,
but it is certainly a matter that the initial questioner should check
up on if the local authority is uncooperative or gives an unpalatable
answer.

Therefore, the answer *has* to come from the local planning department,
while asking questions on newsgroups will not (indeed almost certainly
cannot) produce the same definitive answer, however "bogus" you might
think it could be based on your apparent experience of, presumably
English, local authorities and regardless of decisions made by,
presumably English, courts, neither of which are relevant in this
instance.

Your presumptions are, as usual, unwarranted.

As you ought to know, the matter of delegated powers is one where
Scottish and English used to vary considerably, but now do so much
less, as the result of huge amounts of statute legislation and the
consequent court cases. In both cases, there is no penalty on a
local authority for misleading questioners, and my point about the
untrustworthiness of a response remains valid. No, the answer does
NOT "have to" come from the local authority, despite what you or
other apparatchiks may believe.

To repeat what I said, if he gets advice that conflicts seriously
with what he wants to do, he should check if the local authority is
correct. There is a significant chance that it is not, and a small
chance that it is deliberately misleading him. And that advice
applies as much to Scotland as to England.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article , Nick Maclaren
writes
In article ,
Malcolm wrote:

No, I don't think it does, in the slightest! The more especially as the
questioner lives in Aberdeen and planning is a devolved matter in
Scotland so information about what happens in Greater London, or indeed
happened in the Thatcher years, doesn't really help him very much.

It provides background to why your response is unreliable. You may
not regard that as help, but he might.

What is the use of English-based background to a planning (or not as the
case may be) matter in Aberdeen? Precious little.

Aberdeen City Council, which was only formed in 1996, will no doubt be
able to advise on planning regulations operating, as it does, under the
Town and Country Planning (Scotland) Act 1997, which repealed the Town
and Country Planning (Scotland) Act 1972, which in turn was the Scottish
version of the Town and Country Planning Act 1971 from which you quoted.

Would you like to quote the relevant section of the 1997 Act that gives
local authorities powers to make regulations? If not, why not provide
SOME hint as to why you are saying that it gives VASTLY more powers
to them than the 1971 Act does?

You're just weird, you are! Where, please, do I say anything about it
giving "VASTLY more powers"? I can't see any words of mine like that so
why do you claim that I have written them, or even implied them?

What I have pointed out is that there is a 1997 planning act in Scotland
which, by virtue of its date, its geographic scope and the fact that it
was passed by the devolved Scottish parliament, is significantly more
relevant than the 1971 Act which you quoted. Doubly so as the 1971 Act
has a Scotland version, the 1972 Act, which is specifically repealed by
the 1997 Act.

I am saying that I have been told by a fairly reliable source that
it does not. My source have been wrong, or I may have misunderstood,
but it is certainly a matter that the initial questioner should check
up on if the local authority is uncooperative or gives an unpalatable
answer.

But, before he can do that and before he knows whether or not his local
authority is uncooperative or gives an unpalatable advice, he *has* to
contact them, which is precisely the advice I have proffered.

Therefore, the answer *has* to come from the local planning department,
while asking questions on newsgroups will not (indeed almost certainly
cannot) produce the same definitive answer, however "bogus" you might
think it could be based on your apparent experience of, presumably
English, local authorities and regardless of decisions made by,
presumably English, courts, neither of which are relevant in this
instance.

Your presumptions are, as usual, unwarranted.

Err, no, I don't think so. I know you are a (self-professed) expert in a
wide diversity of subjects but somehow I doubt whether the operation of
Scottish local authority planning departments or Scottish planning law
is among them. I don't pretend to expertise, but at least I have some
personal experience of both.

As you ought to know, the matter of delegated powers is one where
Scottish and English used to vary considerably, but now do so much
less, as the result of huge amounts of statute legislation and the
consequent court cases. In both cases, there is no penalty on a
local authority for misleading questioners, and my point about the
untrustworthiness of a response remains valid. No, the answer does
NOT "have to" come from the local authority, despite what you or
other apparatchiks may believe.

I understand an "apparatchik" as being an implementer of policy for an
organisation, formerly a communist one. Being self-employed, I hardly
fit with your feeble jibe. And, eventually, whatever circuitous route is
taken, the final answer *will* have to come from the local authority.

To repeat what I said, if he gets advice that conflicts seriously
with what he wants to do, he should check if the local authority is
correct. There is a significant chance that it is not, and a small
chance that it is deliberately misleading him. And that advice
applies as much to Scotland as to England.

But, and it seems one has to return to this point, he *still* *has* to
contact his local authority planning department if he wants *any* advice
on what he is or is not permitted to do specifically in Aberdeen.
Offering advice (or background) based on the situation in England either
now or 30 years ago is not going to help him.

--
Malcolm