I have recently taken up tenancy in a semi-detatched victorian
labourer's cottage on the entrance track to a farm. The 'garden'
consists of a 4x4m patch of "grass" between the house and a huge
drainage ditch (there is a holly bush and some other large shrub near
the top of the slope down to the ditch that acts as a boundary) and
various small borders between the house and the track on the other two
sides. The house is roughly square, with a porch built out of the
longest side. Poking around in the weeds covering the "grass" I found
semi-circular sunken areas of soil in the corners where the porch
meets the main wall, which I've assumed are the remains of
long-submerged flowerbeds. I spent two evenings a week ago digging out
one of those beds, and it's fairly sizeable - a quarter circle of
about 1.5m radius on each side of the porch.

There are two main areas of gardenable space - the "grass" between the
house and the ditch, and a long, thin flowerbed under the kitchen
window, parallel to the farm track. There are no delimited boundaries
anywhere - not even between our garden and the garden belonging to the
tenants next door. I'm assuming the boundary lies at the edge of the
area they've mowed and where my weeds begin. The other three sides are
bounded by the farm track - which is concreted on one side, and
gravelled on the second.

The "grassed" area consists of nettles and dandelions, with thin
straggled bits of grass at the edges. The area is shaded by the corner
of the house in the morning, and gets full sun from about 3pm onwards,
so the ground is normally wet underfoot until that point. The area
under the kitchen window gets full sun all day.

I spent a couple of hours last week trying to dig up some of the
nettles at the edge of the "grassed" area to see if it was possible to
remove them without sacrificing what little grass remains. However, I
discovered that there is a web of inch thick nettle roots about 20cm
below the soil surface, and that if I tried pulling them up, the
result looks like the surface of the moon. Am I right in concluding
it's better to redo the lawn from scratch?

I consulted with our landlord, who is willing to run his rotorvator
(what is this?) over our "grassed" area, which he says will let us
seed the lawn again. However, I'm dubious as to whether this will get
rid of the nettles or just distribute their roots more widely round
the garden and let them take over even more space. I'm interested in
gardening, but my skill and experience are close to zero. I mastered
the arts of mowing the lawn and removing pests from the rosebush with
a water pistol in our previous house, but not much else. We have a
handheld fork and trowel and a pair of gloves, but nothing else in the
way of equipment.

I'm looking for suggestions/advice on how to deal with the "grassed"
area, as we'd like to be able to walk on it in bare feet eventually
and sit out there if the weather is nice. Also, any advice on plants
would be welcome, since the weeds had completely choked everything in
the flower beds once they're removed, I will have a blank slate to
work with. I'd like something that's reasonably hardy, as I'm an
expert at killing houseplants and would prefer something that has a
chance of surviving my tender ministrations. We're intending to live
in this house for two years, so something that would produce nice
results in that timeframe would also be appreciated - we'll be leaving
behind the results of my work for the next tenants, but it would be
nice to be able to enjoy it ourselves as well!

I spent a couple of hours last week trying to dig up some of the
nettles at the edge of the "grassed" area to see if it was possible to
remove them without sacrificing what little grass remains. However, I
discovered that there is a web of inch thick nettle roots about 20cm
below the soil surface, and that if I tried pulling them up, the
result looks like the surface of the moon. Am I right in concluding
it's better to redo the lawn from scratch?

I seriously doubt it. I'd try and start with a clean slate if I were you.
Stingers can be got rid of eventually if you keep cutting/pulling them, but
the roots just sprout again. I think it's likely to take a couple of years
to control nettles like that. Eventually they should die. But with such a
well established patch I think it really would be easiest and more
effective in the long run to get rid of them first. Either a weed killer
(maybe?) or "simply" the hard way by pullign/digging the roots up as much
as you can. At the same time you can get rid of the other weeds.


I consulted with our landlord, who is willing to run his rotorvator
(what is this?) over our "grassed" area, which he says will let us
seed the lawn again. However, I'm dubious as to whether this will get
rid of the nettles or just distribute their roots more widely round
the garden and let them take over even more space.


Once you've got the most of the roots out, a good going over with the
rotavator would be a good thing.

Tim

(Genie) wrote in
om:

I spent a couple of hours last week trying to dig up some of the
nettles at the edge of the "grassed" area to see if it was possible to
remove them without sacrificing what little grass remains. However, I
discovered that there is a web of inch thick nettle roots about 20cm
below the soil surface, and that if I tried pulling them up, the
result looks like the surface of the moon. Am I right in concluding
it's better to redo the lawn from scratch?

Unless you are a lawn fanatic, I would just strim, then mow, and mow, and
mow. If there is still some grass in there, your nettle patch is not as
thick as some of mine were!

It will look awful for a few weeks, but soon green up. Stick a handful of
grass seed on any bits that look really bald, and don't forget to water it.

Nettles don't withstand mowing very well, so as long as you can force
yourself to mow at least once a week, they are not too horrible to get rid
of.

If you are a busy person and fear you may leave them to recover, I think
this is one case where a lawn 'weed and feed' may be the right option.

I wouldn't rotovate: it'll take you ages to get it properly flat again, and
as you say, won't kill the nettles.

Victoria

In article , Genie
writes

The "grassed" area consists of nettles and dandelions, with thin
straggled bits of grass at the edges. The area is shaded by the corner
of the house in the morning, and gets full sun from about 3pm onwards,
so the ground is normally wet underfoot until that point. The area
under the kitchen window gets full sun all day.

I spent a couple of hours last week trying to dig up some of the
nettles at the edge of the "grassed" area to see if it was possible to
remove them without sacrificing what little grass remains. However, I
discovered that there is a web of inch thick nettle roots about 20cm
below the soil surface, and that if I tried pulling them up, the
result looks like the surface of the moon. Am I right in concluding
it's better to redo the lawn from scratch?

Possibly. Alternatively, you might find that repeatedly closely mowing
the lawn will get rid of the nettles in time - they'll put energy into
making new leaves, which you'll then mow off, and eventually they'll run
out of energy.

I consulted with our landlord, who is willing to run his rotorvator
(what is this?) over our "grassed" area,

an engine driven thing with sharp blades which cuts everything up into
bits and turns the soil over.

which he says will let us
seed the lawn again. However, I'm dubious as to whether this will get
rid of the nettles or just distribute their roots more widely round
the garden and let them take over even more space.

You're right to be dubious. It won't distribute the nettles beyond the
rotivated area, but it will leave bits of root to reappear as nettles in
your grass. You won't be able to mow the reseeded area until the grass
is big and tough enough, so the nettles will get a head start.

I'm interested in
gardening, but my skill and experience are close to zero.

We all started that way! :-)
Carry on as you are doing - observing and thinking - and you'll soon be
surprised at how much you know.


--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

Genie wrote:
I have recently taken up tenancy in a semi-detatched victorian
labourer's cottage on the entrance track to a farm. The 'garden'
consists of a 4x4m patch of "grass"
snip
The "grassed" area consists of nettles and dandelions, with thin
straggled bits of grass at the edges.
snip
'discovered that there is a web of inch thick nettle roots about
20cm
below the soil surface, and that if I tried pulling them up, the
result looks like the surface of the moon. Am I right in concluding
it's better to redo the lawn from scratch?

Ask three people and you will get three different answers. ;-)
I had the same problem on a patch very much bigger than yours.
I set to with a garden fork and dug the nettle roots up. Its old
fashioned. It works. I reckon I got 98% of the nettles and docks and
hogweed out. Within the year most of the ground had dormant grass
seeds sprouting. The bare patches were sown with locally mown hay
seed. The benefit of this is that the grasses will be suitable for
your soil type.

Your timing is perfect. Hay should be being mown about now (depending
on your location). Offer to glean your local farmers hay field - he
will probably thank you for the offer. Toss the gleaned hay around on
a plastic sheet, dispose of the hay. Sow the seed. Result? Grass -
hardly a lawn yet, but a thick luxuriant grass sward.

Digging the ground over has the benefit of breaking up hard packed
soil and plant growth is more prolific in open textured soil.

--
ned

Genie wrote in message ...


The "grassed" area consists of nettles and dandelions, with thin
straggled bits of grass at the edges. The area is shaded by the corner
of the house in the morning, and gets full sun from about 3pm onwards,
so the ground is normally wet underfoot until that point. The area
under the kitchen window gets full sun all day.

I spent a couple of hours last week trying to dig up some of the
nettles at the edge of the "grassed" area to see if it was possible to
remove them without sacrificing what little grass remains. However, I
discovered that there is a web of inch thick nettle roots about 20cm
below the soil surface, and that if I tried pulling them up, the
result looks like the surface of the moon. Am I right in concluding
it's better to redo the lawn from scratch?



If you're looking for a high quality lawn, redo it from scratch.
However, you'll probably get a reasonable result by just mowing it for a
month or two. The nettles won't stand it for long.

--
Anton

In article , Genie
writes

The "grassed" area consists of nettles and dandelions, with thin
straggled bits of grass at the edges. The area is shaded by the corner
of the house in the morning, and gets full sun from about 3pm onwards,
so the ground is normally wet underfoot until that point. The area
under the kitchen window gets full sun all day.

I spent a couple of hours last week trying to dig up some of the
nettles at the edge of the "grassed" area to see if it was possible to
remove them without sacrificing what little grass remains. However, I
discovered that there is a web of inch thick nettle roots about 20cm
below the soil surface, and that if I tried pulling them up, the
result looks like the surface of the moon. Am I right in concluding
it's better to redo the lawn from scratch?

Possibly. Alternatively, you might find that repeatedly closely mowing
the lawn will get rid of the nettles in time - they'll put energy into
making new leaves, which you'll then mow off, and eventually they'll run
out of energy.

I consulted with our landlord, who is willing to run his rotorvator
(what is this?) over our "grassed" area,

an engine driven thing with sharp blades which cuts everything up into
bits and turns the soil over.

which he says will let us
seed the lawn again. However, I'm dubious as to whether this will get
rid of the nettles or just distribute their roots more widely round
the garden and let them take over even more space.

You're right to be dubious. It won't distribute the nettles beyond the
rotivated area, but it will leave bits of root to reappear as nettles in
your grass. You won't be able to mow the reseeded area until the grass
is big and tough enough, so the nettles will get a head start.

I'm interested in
gardening, but my skill and experience are close to zero.

We all started that way! :-)
Carry on as you are doing - observing and thinking - and you'll soon be
surprised at how much you know.


--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

Genie wrote:
I have recently taken up tenancy in a semi-detatched victorian
labourer's cottage on the entrance track to a farm. The 'garden'
consists of a 4x4m patch of "grass"
snip
The "grassed" area consists of nettles and dandelions, with thin
straggled bits of grass at the edges.
snip
'discovered that there is a web of inch thick nettle roots about
20cm
below the soil surface, and that if I tried pulling them up, the
result looks like the surface of the moon. Am I right in concluding
it's better to redo the lawn from scratch?

Ask three people and you will get three different answers. ;-)
I had the same problem on a patch very much bigger than yours.
I set to with a garden fork and dug the nettle roots up. Its old
fashioned. It works. I reckon I got 98% of the nettles and docks and
hogweed out. Within the year most of the ground had dormant grass
seeds sprouting. The bare patches were sown with locally mown hay
seed. The benefit of this is that the grasses will be suitable for
your soil type.

Your timing is perfect. Hay should be being mown about now (depending
on your location). Offer to glean your local farmers hay field - he
will probably thank you for the offer. Toss the gleaned hay around on
a plastic sheet, dispose of the hay. Sow the seed. Result? Grass -
hardly a lawn yet, but a thick luxuriant grass sward.

Digging the ground over has the benefit of breaking up hard packed
soil and plant growth is more prolific in open textured soil.

--
ned

Genie wrote in message ...


The "grassed" area consists of nettles and dandelions, with thin
straggled bits of grass at the edges. The area is shaded by the corner
of the house in the morning, and gets full sun from about 3pm onwards,
so the ground is normally wet underfoot until that point. The area
under the kitchen window gets full sun all day.

I spent a couple of hours last week trying to dig up some of the
nettles at the edge of the "grassed" area to see if it was possible to
remove them without sacrificing what little grass remains. However, I
discovered that there is a web of inch thick nettle roots about 20cm
below the soil surface, and that if I tried pulling them up, the
result looks like the surface of the moon. Am I right in concluding
it's better to redo the lawn from scratch?



If you're looking for a high quality lawn, redo it from scratch.
However, you'll probably get a reasonable result by just mowing it for a
month or two. The nettles won't stand it for long.

--
Anton

Nettles are a sign of fertile soil :-)

I'd agree with Ned, forking out that area of nettles is not a huge job
and it's by far the quickest cheapest method. Then you can plant up your
beds late this summer. Jumble sales are good sources of second hand
tools and tough garden plants. Or put a card in a local shop.

As you fork the nettles out, put all the rocks, bits of rubbish ect to
one side. Save the rocks as they are useful if you want to build paths
etc later.

Janet.

"anton" wrote in message
...

Genie wrote in message ...


The "grassed" area consists of nettles and dandelions, with thin
straggled bits of grass at the edges. The area is shaded by the corner
of the house in the morning, and gets full sun from about 3pm onwards,
so the ground is normally wet underfoot until that point. The area
under the kitchen window gets full sun all day.

I spent a couple of hours last week trying to dig up some of the
nettles at the edge of the "grassed" area to see if it was possible to
remove them without sacrificing what little grass remains. However, I
discovered that there is a web of inch thick nettle roots about 20cm
below the soil surface, and that if I tried pulling them up, the
result looks like the surface of the moon. Am I right in concluding
it's better to redo the lawn from scratch?

Whichever way you decide to go, with so many nettles, it may be worth
knowing how to make nettle manure, its wonderful stuff, cuts down measurably
on the cost of fertilizers and really does work! One word of warning though,
it is stated on the group often about how badly it smells, no description of
the smell really does it justice, it's horrid, but so worth it.

You'll find a link for it (from the urg archive) here

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...cs.demon.co .
uk&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain



Another thing you might think about it containers, don't leave *all* your
work for the next tennants, containers are lovely, you can plant most things
in them including vegetables and you can take them with you when you go.

Good luck with it all.
--

Shan (Ireland)
http://ukdiscus.com/main.htm

Sorry, wrong link here 'tis

http://www.nugget.demon.co.uk/MetaFAQ/nettle.html

shan