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Getting rid of ground elder
On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 14:16:53 +0100, Jaques d'Altrades
wrote: The message from Sacha contains these words: Few people can get near it without skin problems. A friend of ours became very ill after trying to get his out and suffered for quite some time. Be, very, very careful. Yes, I wouldn't advocate geting it out anywhere near one.... I still remember a close encounter with an electric fence in the dark .... -- Martin |
Getting rid of ground elder
In article , Jane Ransom
writes In article , Kay Easton writes Have you *really* got giant hogweed? The ordinary one grows 5-6 ft. But if giant, lucky you! - Eh??????? It's one of these super weeds like JKN and is notifiable!!! Yes but Kay always sees the best in everything, bless her cotton socks.......... janet -- Janet Tweedy Dalmatian Telegraph http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk |
Getting rid of ground elder
Janet Tweedy wrote in news:caSAuWD4Jxl
: In article , Victoria Clare writes Oddly, I've never found GE very invasive: must be lucky with my soil... Sorry Janet B. I have to reply to this bit of the thread though I've made several replies already :) Some two years ago there was a big thing being made about a plant that if grown in a plot of land inhibited the ground elder from growing though I can't for the life of me remember its name. I know T & M or some other firm were adverting the seeds or plants and they ran out of supply. Did anyone else try it or remember the details? I don't, but my little patch of GE is losing the war against hardy geraniums, pieris, michaelmas daisies, and ivy. I am probably going to have to take up some GE and plant it somewhere else if I want to keep any to have on pizza. :-) Or at least do some weeding down there in the overgrown patch... Victoria -- gardening on a north-facing hill in South-East Cornwall -- |
Getting rid of ground elder
In article , martin
writes On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 12:01:20 +0100, Kay Easton wrote: In article , Nick Wagg writes Jane Ransom wrote: In article , Kay Easton writes Have you *really* got giant hogweed? The ordinary one grows 5-6 ft. But if giant, lucky you! - Eh??????? It's one of these super weeds like JKN and is notifiable!!! That's what I thought, but whom should we notify, please? Nobody, unless you really want to. There's no compunction on you to notify - you merely have to make sure you don't allow it to spread outside your land. or have it growing on your land! Where does it say that? -- Kay Easton Edward's earthworm page: http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm |
Getting rid of ground elder
In article , Jane Ransom
writes In article , Nick Wagg writes Eh??????? It's one of these super weeds like JKN and is notifiable!!! That's what I thought, but whom should we notify, please? Department of the Environment - or whatever official title it lives under these days!! DEFRA - No - they don't want to be notified if you have it. -- Kay Easton Edward's earthworm page: http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm |
Getting rid of ground elder
In article , martin
writes On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 12:01:15 +0100, Kay Easton wrote: In article , martin writes On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:22:24 +0100, Nick Wagg wrote: Jane Ransom wrote: Eh??????? It's one of these super weeds like JKN and is notifiable!!! That's what I thought, but whom should we notify, please? The HS&E. Where did you get that bit of information from, please? Google I didn't save the URL and I can't find it again. Last time it was discussed in http://www.gardenbanter.co.uk/showth...?threadid=8917 the local council appeared to be the place. Thanks for the urls you posted - quite a helpful set. But they merely put it on the same level as, eg, grey squirrel, and I can just imagine the reaction of the local council if you phoned to notify them you had grey squirrels in the garden ;-) I know it's covered by the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, but that just makes it illegal to release it into the wild. It doesn't make it illegal to grow it - though if you were to grow it and allow it to set seed, that would both be irresponsible and make it very likely you would break the law. But I can't find any suggestion anywhere that is notifiable - like Colorado beetle used to be when I was young. Mr. Sainsbury [holding answer 22 October 1990] : No. There are currently no plans to ban the import or sale of seeds of Heracleum Mantegazzianum. And if it were notifiable they'd hardly allow the sale of seeds. it could be quite expensive having a garden or field full of giant hogweed No. Not having a garden full - that is allowed. But if you let it spread outside the garden it could indeed be expensive. -- Kay Easton Edward's earthworm page: http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm |
Getting rid of ground elder
In article , martin writes On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 12:01:15 +0100, Kay Easton wrote: In article , martin writes On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:22:24 +0100, Nick Wagg wrote: Jane Ransom wrote: In article , Kay Easton writes Have you *really* got giant hogweed? The ordinary one grows 5-6 ft. But if giant, lucky you! - Eh??????? It's one of these super weeds like JKN and is notifiable!!! That's what I thought, but whom should we notify, please? The HS&E. Where did you get that bit of information from, please? The scope of the ban is in http://www.parliament.the-stationery...990/cmhansrd/1 990-10-25/Writtens-1.html "Giant Hogweed Mrs. Margaret Ewing : To ask the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry whether he will take steps to ban the import and sale of seeds of Heracleum Mantegazzianum. Mr. Sainsbury [holding answer 22 October 1990] : No. There are currently no plans to ban the import or sale of seeds of Heracleum Mantegazzianum. However, under section 14(2) of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, it is an offence for any person to plant or to otherwise cause to grow in the wild any plant which is included in part 2 of schedule 9 to the Act. Giant hogweed (Heracleum Mantegazzianum) is listed in the schedule." Note the words "in the wild". Private gardens are not classed as "in the wild". Details of section 14(2) of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 at http://www.defra.gov.uk/paw/publications/law/5_1_7.htm and for list of banned flora and fauna http://www.defra.gov.uk/paw/publicat...w/appenda9.htm it could be quite expensive having a garden or field full of giant hogweed A field perhaps, but not a private garden. -- Malcolm Ogilvie |
Getting rid of ground elder
On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:28:14 +0100, Malcolm Ogilvie
wrote: The scope of the ban is in http://www.parliament.the-stationery...990/cmhansrd/1 990-10-25/Writtens-1.html "Giant Hogweed Mrs. Margaret Ewing : To ask the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry whether he will take steps to ban the import and sale of seeds of Heracleum Mantegazzianum. Mr. Sainsbury [holding answer 22 October 1990] : No. There are currently no plans to ban the import or sale of seeds of Heracleum Mantegazzianum. However, under section 14(2) of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, it is an offence for any person to plant or to otherwise cause to grow in the wild any plant which is included in part 2 of schedule 9 to the Act. Giant hogweed (Heracleum Mantegazzianum) is listed in the schedule." Note the words "in the wild". Private gardens are not classed as "in the wild". Odd because it says quite clearly "garden" in http://www.defra.gov.uk/paw/publications/law/5_1_7.htm "NOTE: This offence is similar to the one relating to animals (section 14(1) though it only applies to plants on the list and not the non-native plants generally. The latter would be impossible as virtually every garden in the country is stocked with mainly non-native plants" Details of section 14(2) of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 at http://www.defra.gov.uk/paw/publications/law/5_1_7.htm and for list of banned flora and fauna http://www.defra.gov.uk/paw/publicat...w/appenda9.htm it could be quite expensive having a garden or field full of giant hogweed A field perhaps, but not a private garden. -- Martin |
Getting rid of ground elder
On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:29:52 +0100, Kay Easton
wrote: or have it growing on your land! Where does it say that? sse the link to the act. -- Martin |
Getting rid of ground elder
On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:30:03 +0100, Kay Easton
wrote: In article , martin writes On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 12:01:15 +0100, Kay Easton wrote: In article , martin writes On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:22:24 +0100, Nick Wagg wrote: Jane Ransom wrote: Eh??????? It's one of these super weeds like JKN and is notifiable!!! That's what I thought, but whom should we notify, please? The HS&E. Where did you get that bit of information from, please? Google I didn't save the URL and I can't find it again. Last time it was discussed in http://www.gardenbanter.co.uk/showth...?threadid=8917 the local council appeared to be the place. Thanks for the urls you posted - quite a helpful set. But they merely put it on the same level as, eg, grey squirrel, and I can just imagine the reaction of the local council if you phoned to notify them you had grey squirrels in the garden ;-) :-) -- Martin |
Getting rid of ground elder
In article , martin
writes On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:28:14 +0100, Malcolm Ogilvie wrote: The scope of the ban is in http://www.parliament.the-stationery...990/cmhansrd/1 990-10-25/Writtens-1.html "Giant Hogweed Mrs. Margaret Ewing : To ask the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry whether he will take steps to ban the import and sale of seeds of Heracleum Mantegazzianum. Mr. Sainsbury [holding answer 22 October 1990] : No. There are currently no plans to ban the import or sale of seeds of Heracleum Mantegazzianum. However, under section 14(2) of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, it is an offence for any person to plant or to otherwise cause to grow in the wild any plant which is included in part 2 of schedule 9 to the Act. Giant hogweed (Heracleum Mantegazzianum) is listed in the schedule." Note the words "in the wild". Private gardens are not classed as "in the wild". Odd because it says quite clearly "garden" in http://www.defra.gov.uk/paw/publications/law/5_1_7.htm "NOTE: This offence is similar to the one relating to animals (section 14(1) though it only applies to plants on the list and not the non-native plants generally. The latter would be impossible as virtually every garden in the country is stocked with mainly non-native plants" And exactly where in that does it say that you cannot grow giant hogweed in a private garden? Or that a garden is part of 'the wild'? -- Kay Easton Edward's earthworm page: http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm |
Getting rid of ground elder
In article , martin
writes On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:29:52 +0100, Kay Easton wrote: or have it growing on your land! Where does it say that? sse the link to the act. I have seen the link to the Act. I have crawled through both the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, and the Weeds Act 1959, and in neither of them can I find anything which makes it an offence to grow giant hogweed on your own land (as opposed to releasing it or allowing it to be released into the wild) That is why I am asking you where you have obtained your information, because it is not in the links you have posted, nor in anything I can find on the DEFRA site. -- Kay Easton Edward's earthworm page: http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm |
Getting rid of ground elder
The message
from Janet Tweedy contains these words: What about covering the ground with black Thingy and putting half grown bulbs through the plastic later on Janet? If you mulched the ground thickly as well you might get away with stopping the ground elder coming through if a lot has been taken away. I did try it on one bed of my vegetable area but sad to say the mulch is now four foot tall and contains two carpet layers, two layers of very thick newspaper and lots of grass clipping etc and STILL the ground elder comes through................. Sigh .............. Covering ground with black plastic, or carpet, to clean ground of serious perennial weeds like GE, requires that all light is excluded. Holes in the plastic let light in, shoots will emerge through them and photosynthesise to feed and multiply the roots below. I see no point mulching on top of a non-degradable or incredibly slow degrading soil-barrier such as plastic or carpet. Janet. |
Getting rid of ground elder
In article , martin writes On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:28:14 +0100, Malcolm Ogilvie wrote: The scope of the ban is in http://www.parliament.the-stationery...990/cmhansrd/1 990-10-25/Writtens-1.html "Giant Hogweed Mrs. Margaret Ewing : To ask the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry whether he will take steps to ban the import and sale of seeds of Heracleum Mantegazzianum. Mr. Sainsbury [holding answer 22 October 1990] : No. There are currently no plans to ban the import or sale of seeds of Heracleum Mantegazzianum. However, under section 14(2) of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, it is an offence for any person to plant or to otherwise cause to grow in the wild any plant which is included in part 2 of schedule 9 to the Act. Giant hogweed (Heracleum Mantegazzianum) is listed in the schedule." Note the words "in the wild". Private gardens are not classed as "in the wild". Odd because it says quite clearly "garden" in http://www.defra.gov.uk/paw/publications/law/5_1_7.htm "NOTE: This offence is similar to the one relating to animals (section 14(1) though it only applies to plants on the list and not the non-native plants generally. The latter would be impossible as virtually every garden in the country is stocked with mainly non-native plants" So it does, but where does it say that a private garden is "in the wild" or that growing giant hogweed in a garden is against the law, which is what you appear to be claiming! Note, too, the Defence for this clause: "It is a defence to a charge of committing offences under section 14 for a person to prove that he took all reasonable steps and exercised all due diligence to avoid committing the offence." -- Malcolm Ogilvie |
Getting rid of ground elder
In article , martin
writes Yes, I wouldn't advocate geting it out anywhere near one.... I still remember a close encounter with an electric fence in the dark ... Oh ouch.......... what did they 'charge' you with then? Ho ho -- Janet Tweedy Dalmatian Telegraph http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk |
Getting rid of ground elder
On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 18:01:00 +0100, Kay Easton
wrote: In article , martin writes On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:28:14 +0100, Malcolm Ogilvie wrote: The scope of the ban is in http://www.parliament.the-stationery...990/cmhansrd/1 990-10-25/Writtens-1.html "Giant Hogweed Mrs. Margaret Ewing : To ask the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry whether he will take steps to ban the import and sale of seeds of Heracleum Mantegazzianum. Mr. Sainsbury [holding answer 22 October 1990] : No. There are currently no plans to ban the import or sale of seeds of Heracleum Mantegazzianum. However, under section 14(2) of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, it is an offence for any person to plant or to otherwise cause to grow in the wild any plant which is included in part 2 of schedule 9 to the Act. Giant hogweed (Heracleum Mantegazzianum) is listed in the schedule." Note the words "in the wild". Private gardens are not classed as "in the wild". Odd because it says quite clearly "garden" in http://www.defra.gov.uk/paw/publications/law/5_1_7.htm "NOTE: This offence is similar to the one relating to animals (section 14(1) though it only applies to plants on the list and not the non-native plants generally. The latter would be impossible as virtually every garden in the country is stocked with mainly non-native plants" And exactly where in that does it say that you cannot grow giant hogweed in a private garden? You are not allowed to grow giant hog weeds anywhere. That's the whole point of the act. Or that a garden is part of 'the wild'? Would they use "garden" in the example if it didn't apply to gardens? -- Martin |
Getting rid of ground elder
On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 19:47:24 +0100, Janet Tweedy
wrote: In article , martin writes Yes, I wouldn't advocate geting it out anywhere near one.... I still remember a close encounter with an electric fence in the dark ... Oh ouch.......... what did they 'charge' you with then? Ho ho It wasn't me, that had the close encounter. -- Martin |
Getting rid of ground elder
The message
from martin contains these words: On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 14:16:53 +0100, Jaques d'Altrades wrote: The message from Sacha contains these words: Few people can get near it without skin problems. A friend of ours became very ill after trying to get his out and suffered for quite some time. Be, very, very careful. Yes, I wouldn't advocate geting it out anywhere near one.... I still remember a close encounter with an electric fence in the dark Hmmm. Last year a ten-year-old boy unmolished himself by ipssnig off a railway bridge onto overhead electric power lines. -- Rusty Hinge horrid·squeak&zetnet·co·uk http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/tqt.htm |
Getting rid of ground elder
The message
from Janet Baraclough contains these words: Covering ground with black plastic, or carpet, to clean ground of serious perennial weeds like GE, requires that all light is excluded. Holes in the plastic let light in, shoots will emerge through them and photosynthesise to feed and multiply the roots below. I see no point mulching on top of a non-degradable or incredibly slow degrading soil-barrier such as plastic or carpet. Oh, I can. One of my friends had a plot of almost virgin clay, covered in rank and weedy weeds. He covered it with throwouts from the greengrocer for months, then capped it with bales of straw and old carpet on top of that, all soaked during the construction with the contents of his netty. Then he covered the lot with thick plack polythene and left it for two years. The ground is free of weeds, even the seeds having been cooked in the initial composting, and the worms turned it all into good deep friable loam. So, even a little (compostable) mulch will be beneficial. I'm doing a simiar trick with my garden, a bit at a time. -- Rusty Hinge horrid·squeak&zetnet·co·uk http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/tqt.htm |
Getting rid of ground elder
In article , Jaques d'Altrades
writes I had to replough and re-harrow twice before I could do anything at all, and the ley of mixed grasses and clover I put down eventually didn't do well at all for a couple of years. But did the ground elder grow? janet -- Janet Tweedy Dalmatian Telegraph http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk |
Getting rid of ground elder
In article , martin
writes On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 18:01:00 +0100, Kay Easton wrote: In article , martin writes On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:28:14 +0100, Malcolm Ogilvie wrote: Note the words "in the wild". Private gardens are not classed as "in the wild". Odd because it says quite clearly "garden" in http://www.defra.gov.uk/paw/publications/law/5_1_7.htm "NOTE: This offence is similar to the one relating to animals (section 14(1) though it only applies to plants on the list and not the non-native plants generally. The latter would be impossible as virtually every garden in the country is stocked with mainly non-native plants" And exactly where in that does it say that you cannot grow giant hogweed in a private garden? You are not allowed to grow giant hog weeds anywhere. That's the whole point of the act. The whole point of the act is that you are not allowed to release giant hogweed into the wild or to allow it to get into the wild. Or that a garden is part of 'the wild'? Would they use "garden" in the example if it didn't apply to gardens? That was not an example. That was a reason why there is a specified list of limited plants whereas the situation for animals is that no alien species should be released into the wild. If it applied to gardens, the Act would be written in terms of it being an offence to 'cultivate or allow to grow giant hogweed'. Instead, it is written in terms of planting in the wild or allowing to escape into the wild. There would be no need to make 'allowing to escape into the wild' an offence if there were nowhere that it could legally be grown. -- Kay Easton Edward's earthworm page: http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm |
Getting rid of ground elder
In article , martin writes On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 18:01:00 +0100, Kay Easton wrote: In article , martin writes On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:28:14 +0100, Malcolm Ogilvie wrote: The scope of the ban is in http://www.parliament.the-stationery...990/cmhansrd/1 990-10-25/Writtens-1.html "Giant Hogweed Mrs. Margaret Ewing : To ask the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry whether he will take steps to ban the import and sale of seeds of Heracleum Mantegazzianum. Mr. Sainsbury [holding answer 22 October 1990] : No. There are currently no plans to ban the import or sale of seeds of Heracleum Mantegazzianum. However, under section 14(2) of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, it is an offence for any person to plant or to otherwise cause to grow in the wild any plant which is included in part 2 of schedule 9 to the Act. Giant hogweed (Heracleum Mantegazzianum) is listed in the schedule." Note the words "in the wild". Private gardens are not classed as "in the wild". Odd because it says quite clearly "garden" in http://www.defra.gov.uk/paw/publications/law/5_1_7.htm "NOTE: This offence is similar to the one relating to animals (section 14(1) though it only applies to plants on the list and not the non-native plants generally. The latter would be impossible as virtually every garden in the country is stocked with mainly non-native plants" And exactly where in that does it say that you cannot grow giant hogweed in a private garden? You are not allowed to grow giant hog weeds anywhere. That's the whole point of the act. The words "in the wild" are part of that clause and apply to plants in Schedule 9, including Giant Hogweed. Or that a garden is part of 'the wild'? Would they use "garden" in the example if it didn't apply to gardens? I think you are misunderstanding the bit that mentions gardens. It was not an example but a qualification explaining why a blanket ban couldn't be applied to non-native plants like it was for animals. Hence the reference to animals. There is nothing in the act which prohibits anyone growing Giant Hogweed *in their gardens* if they are so minded. They must, however, take every precaution to prevent it escaping *into the wild*. -- Malcolm Ogilvie |
Getting rid of ground elder
On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 22:50:51 +0100, Malcolm Ogilvie
wrote: In article , martin writes On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 18:01:00 +0100, Kay Easton wrote: In article , martin writes On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:28:14 +0100, Malcolm Ogilvie wrote: The scope of the ban is in http://www.parliament.the-stationery...990/cmhansrd/1 990-10-25/Writtens-1.html "Giant Hogweed Mrs. Margaret Ewing : To ask the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry whether he will take steps to ban the import and sale of seeds of Heracleum Mantegazzianum. Mr. Sainsbury [holding answer 22 October 1990] : No. There are currently no plans to ban the import or sale of seeds of Heracleum Mantegazzianum. However, under section 14(2) of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, it is an offence for any person to plant or to otherwise cause to grow in the wild any plant which is included in part 2 of schedule 9 to the Act. Giant hogweed (Heracleum Mantegazzianum) is listed in the schedule." Note the words "in the wild". Private gardens are not classed as "in the wild". Odd because it says quite clearly "garden" in http://www.defra.gov.uk/paw/publications/law/5_1_7.htm "NOTE: This offence is similar to the one relating to animals (section 14(1) though it only applies to plants on the list and not the non-native plants generally. The latter would be impossible as virtually every garden in the country is stocked with mainly non-native plants" And exactly where in that does it say that you cannot grow giant hogweed in a private garden? You are not allowed to grow giant hog weeds anywhere. That's the whole point of the act. The words "in the wild" are part of that clause and apply to plants in Schedule 9, including Giant Hogweed. "in the wild" is not defined. Or that a garden is part of 'the wild'? Would they use "garden" in the example if it didn't apply to gardens? I think you are misunderstanding the bit that mentions gardens. that's possible it's also possible that you misunderstand it :-) It was not an example but a qualification explaining why a blanket ban couldn't be applied to non-native plants like it was for animals. "14(1) though it only applies to plants on the list and not the non-native plants generally." Not quite, it applies to the plants on the list Hence the reference to animals. There is nothing in the act which prohibits anyone growing Giant Hogweed *in their gardens* if they are so minded. They must, however, take every precaution to prevent it escaping *into the wild*. Only common sense and the fear of blisters? :-) If you google search hard enough and long enough you will find a DEFRA ..pdf file AFAIR that explains what action and against whom is to be taken against those growing Giant Hog weed. In the case of private individuals growing it, who refuse to remove it, a civil action may be taken against them by the local authority. I'd guess that this doesn't happen very often. In all other cases a public body is responsible and the assumption is that they will take necessary action to remove plants. If you look at the list of prosecutions, there are so few for any sort of a Wildlife and Countryside Act offense, it makes you wonder why they waste their time passing this sort of legislation. -- Martin |
Getting rid of ground elder
The message
from Jaques d'Altrades contains these words: The message from Janet Baraclough contains these words: Covering ground with black plastic, or carpet, to clean ground of serious perennial weeds like GE, requires that all light is excluded. Holes in the plastic let light in, shoots will emerge through them and photosynthesise to feed and multiply the roots below. I see no point mulching on top of a non-degradable or incredibly slow degrading soil-barrier such as plastic or carpet. Oh, I can. One of my friends had a plot of almost virgin clay, covered in rank and weedy weeds. He covered it with throwouts from the greengrocer for months, then capped it with bales of straw and old carpet on top of that, all soaked during the construction with the contents of his netty. Then he covered the lot with thick plack polythene and left it for two years. The ground is free of weeds, even the seeds having been cooked in the initial composting, and the worms turned it all into good deep friable loam. I agree, that way round works well. But I read JT's proposal for the bulbs (and description of her veg bed's failed mulch) as plastic or carpet on the soil first and mulch on top of that...maybe I misinterpreted her. Janet. |
Getting rid of ground elder
In message , Janet Tweedy
writes In article , Bob Hobden writes Roundup would and does work, I've sprayed mine with roundup for the last three years but I have to do it every year as there's always some degree of grow back...... There will be. There is a lot of mass and stored energy in the tuberous roots. You have to dig most of it out after the glyphosate has taken effect. That way you don't get any regrowth from small bits that snap off. If you insist on doing it all chemically it takes excessive amounts. Regards, -- Martin Brown |
Getting rid of ground elder
In message , Nick Maclaren
writes In article , Janet Tweedy writes: | | How disappointing ......... I thought the thread was referring to a | solution on "getting rid of ground elder"! | | I don't think it matters what you douse the shoots or roots in, from | napalm to undiluted acid. The things will still rear their healthy heads | in the spring. You can actually kill it off by repeated strimming for an entire season provided that you never let any of its leaves see the light of day. It doesn't grow at all well in close cropped lawns even when endemic under hedges. Well, I have done it in one year, using no chemicals, and using that patch to the full :-) I dug it over and removed as much as I could stand, and planted potatoes. I dug up stray bits where I saw them. When I dug up the potatoes, the ground was clear. Of course, the dry summer did help - ground elder dislikes drought even more than potatoes do. If someone can tell me how to get rid of bindweed .... Same sort of way in a sandy soil. Weedkill, dig and sieve. Trouble with bindweed is that there are so many seeds in the soil waiting to germinate :( I never had much trouble with the low growing pink form on clay soil. I let some grow. The vigorous white climbing one is a menace though. Regards, -- Martin Brown |
Getting rid of ground elder
|
Getting rid of ground elder
In article ,
(Martin Brown) wrote: You can actually kill it off by repeated strimming for an entire season I think it depends to some extent on your conditions. Here, with dry, sandy soil, determined assaults with glyphosate and later hoeing has seen of my GE. In contrast, sycamore, ivy, bramble and bindweed are much more problematic. Steve Harris - Cheltenham - Real address steve AT netservs DOT com |
Getting rid of ground elder
In article , martin
writes If you google search hard enough and long enough you will find a DEFRA .pdf file AFAIR that explains what action and against whom is to be taken against those growing Giant Hog weed. In the case of private individuals growing it, who refuse to remove it, a civil action may be taken against them by the local authority. That is if they are allowing it to be released into the wild. -- Kay Easton Edward's earthworm page: http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm |
Getting rid of ground elder
In article , Steve
Harris writes In article , (Kay Easton) wrote: allowing to escape into the wild. So if you had it in your garden, it seeded and the seeds blew out of your garden into an area the was legally "the wild" you would commit an offence? Yes, that's my reading of the Act. If you were growing it, it would make sense to remove the flower heads before they set seed. Disposal then becomes a bit of a problem, so I guess you'd have to make sure you kept them on your property. -- Kay Easton Edward's earthworm page: http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm |
Getting rid of ground elder
On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:23:44 +0100, Kay Easton
wrote: In article , martin writes If you google search hard enough and long enough you will find a DEFRA .pdf file AFAIR that explains what action and against whom is to be taken against those growing Giant Hog weed. In the case of private individuals growing it, who refuse to remove it, a civil action may be taken against them by the local authority. That is if they are allowing it to be released into the wild. No! -- Martin |
Getting rid of ground elder
In article , martin writes On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:23:44 +0100, Kay Easton wrote: In article , martin writes If you google search hard enough and long enough you will find a DEFRA .pdf file AFAIR that explains what action and against whom is to be taken against those growing Giant Hog weed. In the case of private individuals growing it, who refuse to remove it, a civil action may be taken against them by the local authority. That is if they are allowing it to be released into the wild. No! Yes! Please read the Act and the commentary again: Here is the Act: "Section 14(2) It is an offence for a person to plant or otherwise cause to grow in the wild any plant on Schedule 9 (Part 2)" The words "in the wild" refer to everything in that clause. And here is the Commentary "NOTE: This offence is similar to the one relating to animals (section 14(1) though it only applies to plants on the list and not the non-native plants generally. The latter would be impossible as virtually every garden in the country is stocked with mainly non-native plants." In order to understand what this is about, it is necessary to read Section 14(1), which states: "It is an offence for a person to release or allow to escape into the wild any animal which is of a kind not normally resident in and is not a regular visitor to Great Britain in a wild state or is included in Part I of Schedule 9. The Commentary is making the point that although it is practicable to make it an offence to release *any* non-native animals into the wild, it would be completely impracticable to make it an offence for people to plant or release into the wild any non-native plants because their gardens are stocked with them and releases and escapes happen all the time. That is the only reason that gardens are referred to. They are not being referred to specifically with regard to plants on the list but with regard to *all* non-native plants making a comparison with the law on non-native animals. Thus if you take the Act and the Commentary together, they state that the offence is "to plant or otherwise cause to grow *in the wild* any plant on Schedule 9, part 2". It is *not* an offence to have those plants in your garden. You must, though, prevent them escaping into the wild, something which does not apply to any other non-native plant though it does apply to all non-native animals. -- Malcolm Ogilvie |
Getting rid of ground elder
On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:05:22 +0100, Malcolm Ogilvie
wrote: In article , martin writes On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:23:44 +0100, Kay Easton wrote: In article , martin writes If you google search hard enough and long enough you will find a DEFRA .pdf file AFAIR that explains what action and against whom is to be taken against those growing Giant Hog weed. In the case of private individuals growing it, who refuse to remove it, a civil action may be taken against them by the local authority. That is if they are allowing it to be released into the wild. No! Yes! Please read the Act and the commentary again: Here is the Act: "Section 14(2) It is an offence for a person to plant or otherwise cause to grow in the wild any plant on Schedule 9 (Part 2)" I think the problem is that the plant part was tacked onto an animal act. Releasing into the wild has a clear meaning with animals and a not so clear meaning with plants. Can you give me the links to the whole act and it's various amendments. Do many people cultivate hog weed in Uk gardens? -- Martin |
Getting rid of ground elder
In article , martin
writes On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:23:44 +0100, Kay Easton wrote: In article , martin writes If you google search hard enough and long enough you will find a DEFRA .pdf file AFAIR that explains what action and against whom is to be taken against those growing Giant Hog weed. In the case of private individuals growing it, who refuse to remove it, a civil action may be taken against them by the local authority. That is if they are allowing it to be released into the wild. No! I beg your pardon, but yes. From the DEFRA site: '4. Under section 14 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, it can be an offence to plant or grow certain specified plants in the wild (see Schedule 9 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981), including Giant Hogweed and Japanese Knotweed. Problems involving these plants can be referred to the local authority for the area where those weeds are growing as some local authorities have by-laws controlling these plants. There is no statutory requirement for landowners to remove these plants from their property. Further information about non-native weeds species can be obtained from Defra’s European Wildlife Division at Bristol (Tel: 0117 372 6154)' In case you missed it: THERE IS NO STATUTORY REQUIREMENT FOR LANDOWNERS TO REMOVE THESE PLANTS FROM THEIR PROPERTY -- Kay Easton Edward's earthworm page: http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm |
Getting rid of ground elder
In article , martin writes On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:05:22 +0100, Malcolm Ogilvie wrote: In article , martin writes On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:23:44 +0100, Kay Easton wrote: In article , martin writes If you google search hard enough and long enough you will find a DEFRA .pdf file AFAIR that explains what action and against whom is to be taken against those growing Giant Hog weed. In the case of private individuals growing it, who refuse to remove it, a civil action may be taken against them by the local authority. That is if they are allowing it to be released into the wild. No! Yes! Please read the Act and the commentary again: Here is the Act: "Section 14(2) It is an offence for a person to plant or otherwise cause to grow in the wild any plant on Schedule 9 (Part 2)" I think the problem is that the plant part was tacked onto an animal act. Releasing into the wild has a clear meaning with animals and a not so clear meaning with plants. Does that mean you agree with me??? Can you give me the links to the whole act and it's various amendments. You gave the links yourself. Just click on 'Contents' at the foot of the page. That's by far the most accessible version with its commentaries. Or if you want to read the whole Act, as published, you can find it on: http://www.hmso.gov.uk/ Do many people cultivate hog weed in Uk gardens? If you mean *giant* hogweed, I know at least two, both of whom like it for its grandeur and looks, but are careful (a) not to touch it without gloves and (b) let it escape. -- Malcolm Ogilvie |
Getting rid of ground elder
On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:48:10 +0100, Malcolm Ogilvie
wrote: In article , martin writes On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:05:22 +0100, Malcolm Ogilvie wrote: In article , martin writes On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:23:44 +0100, Kay Easton wrote: In article , martin writes If you google search hard enough and long enough you will find a DEFRA .pdf file AFAIR that explains what action and against whom is to be taken against those growing Giant Hog weed. In the case of private individuals growing it, who refuse to remove it, a civil action may be taken against them by the local authority. That is if they are allowing it to be released into the wild. No! Yes! Please read the Act and the commentary again: Here is the Act: "Section 14(2) It is an offence for a person to plant or otherwise cause to grow in the wild any plant on Schedule 9 (Part 2)" I think the problem is that the plant part was tacked onto an animal act. Releasing into the wild has a clear meaning with animals and a not so clear meaning with plants. Does that mean you agree with me??? that the law is unclear? yes :-) from the site that listed prosecutions under that act, it's clear anybody growing it, isn't likely to be prosecuted, unless as a test case. :-) Can you give me the links to the whole act and it's various amendments. You gave the links yourself. I think bits of some of them. Just click on 'Contents' at the foot of the page. That's by far the most accessible version with its commentaries. I couldn't find all the amendments. Or if you want to read the whole Act, as published, you can find it on: http://www.hmso.gov.uk/ I see we haven't made the top 5 most requested acts ... yet :-) Do many people cultivate hog weed in Uk gardens? If you mean *giant* hogweed, I know at least two, both of whom like it for its grandeur and looks, but are careful (a) not to touch it without gloves and (b) let it escape. Having read all the stuff about the unintentional spread of GM plants, and seen giant hog weed growing along miles of grass verges, how can you be careful not to let it escape? Why does it appear some years and not others? -- Martin |
Getting rid of ground elder
You can actually kill it off by repeated strimming for an entire season
I hard a similar approach for any hard to get rid of weeds. Sow grass seed and mow every week in the growing season keeping it really short. Apparently this causes the weeds to use up the energy stored in the roots faster than the leaves can generate it. Eventually (a season or two) they die. Then you can lift the turf (green manure?) and do what you like with the plot. Personally I am too impatient - I want to plant veggies in the spring. I am digging the garden and getting out all the roots I can (nettles, couch grass, brambles, some thing with red roots/tubers) and if necessary I will treat with Glyphosate in the spring. Mike |
Getting rid of ground elder
On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:56:12 +0100, Kay Easton
wrote: In article , martin writes On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:23:44 +0100, Kay Easton wrote: In article , martin writes If you google search hard enough and long enough you will find a DEFRA .pdf file AFAIR that explains what action and against whom is to be taken against those growing Giant Hog weed. In the case of private individuals growing it, who refuse to remove it, a civil action may be taken against them by the local authority. That is if they are allowing it to be released into the wild. No! I beg your pardon, but yes. From the DEFRA site: '4. Under section 14 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, it can be an offence to plant or grow certain specified plants in the wild (see Schedule 9 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981), including Giant Hogweed and Japanese Knotweed. Problems involving these plants can be referred to the local authority for the area where those weeds are growing as some local authorities have by-laws controlling these plants. There is no statutory requirement for landowners to remove these plants from their property. Further information about non-native weeds species can be obtained from Defra’s European Wildlife Division at Bristol (Tel: 0117 372 6154)' In case you missed it: THERE IS NO STATUTORY REQUIREMENT FOR LANDOWNERS TO REMOVE THESE PLANTS FROM THEIR PROPERTY except... "local authority for the area where those weeds are growing as some local authorities have by-laws controlling these plants" It says somewhere that local authorities can start a civil action to make you remove them. I assume that is when there is a local by-law." -- Martin |
Getting rid of ground elder
The message
from Malcolm Ogilvie contains these words: Thus if you take the Act and the Commentary together, they state that the offence is "to plant or otherwise cause to grow *in the wild* any plant on Schedule 9, part 2". It is *not* an offence to have those plants in your garden. You must, though, prevent them escaping into the wild, something which does not apply to any other non-native plant though it does apply to all non-native animals. So, having eaten raw tomatoes you have to be careful where you get taken short? -- Rusty Hinge horrid·squeak&zetnet·co·uk http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/tqt.htm |
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